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Posted to user@vcl.apache.org by "Woods, David M. Dr." <wo...@muohio.edu> on 2010/06/02 21:09:08 UTC
Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Hi,
I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a VCL environment.
We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept. In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have problems is providing access to this software from student (or any machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not allowed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem for a student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab, but is a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine owned by a student?
The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow us to allow students to access the VCL from the student's personal machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact info.
Thanks.
Dave
David Woods, Ph. D
Assistant Director for Research Computing
347 Gaskill Hall
Miami University
(513) 529-1857
woodsdm2@muohio.edu<ma...@muohio.edu>
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by Aaron Peeler <aa...@ncsu.edu>.
No actually this is with the various software applications like SAS,
Office, Adobe that are installed within the VCL environments. The
environments that VCL provisions consist of an OS(windows,linux, etc)
plus some set of applications, then a user (such as a student) request
use of that environment through VCL web interface. Some windows based
application vendors have a hard time understanding that the application
is running remotely on hardware owned by said University or business,
and not on the end-user's machine.
Aaron
On 6/3/10 1:53 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but
>> licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot
>> project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share
>> licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a
>> VCL environment.
>> We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept.
>> In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned
>> machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have
>> problems is providing access to this software from student (or any
>> machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't
>> have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not allowed.
>> It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem for a
>> student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab, but is
>> a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine owned by a
>> student?
>> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow
>> us to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal
>> machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL
>> implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at
>> other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors
>> are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be willing
>> to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact info.
>
> Do I understand correctly when I say that you do not have a licensing
> problem installing the core VCL, VCL-2.1 as distributed from the
> Apache Software Foundation, but have discovered licensing issues w/
> subsequent vendor specific add-ons?
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
aaron_peeler@ncsu.edu
919-513-4571
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
Thanks guys!
Regards,
Alan
On Jun 3, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
>
> We don’t have a problem with the license for the VCL software.
>
> What we are finding is that the constraints on vendor software licenses for products that we want to run on the VMs could significantly limit how useful the VCL is in practice. And it is not that the vendors are not understanding the VCL, but rather telling us that the ownership (university owned or student owned) of the machine being used to access the VMs factors into what is allowed by our licenses.
>
> Dave
>
> From: Alan D. Cabrera [mailto:list@toolazydogs.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 1:53 PM
> To: vcl-user@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a VCL environment.
>
> We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept. In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have problems is providing access to this software from student (or any machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not allowed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem for a student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab, but is a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine owned by a student?
>
> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow us to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact info.
>
> Do I understand correctly when I say that you do not have a licensing problem installing the core VCL, VCL-2.1 as distributed from the Apache Software Foundation, but have discovered licensing issues w/ subsequent vendor specific add-ons?
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
RE: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by "Woods, David M. Dr." <wo...@muohio.edu>.
We don't have a problem with the license for the VCL software.
What we are finding is that the constraints on vendor software licenses for products that we want to run on the VMs could significantly limit how useful the VCL is in practice. And it is not that the vendors are not understanding the VCL, but rather telling us that the ownership (university owned or student owned) of the machine being used to access the VMs factors into what is allowed by our licenses.
Dave
From: Alan D. Cabrera [mailto:list@toolazydogs.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 1:53 PM
To: vcl-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
Hi,
I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a VCL environment.
We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept. In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have problems is providing access to this software from student (or any machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not allowed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem for a student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab, but is a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine owned by a student?
The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow us to allow students to access the VCL from the student's personal machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact info.
Do I understand correctly when I say that you do not have a licensing problem installing the core VCL, VCL-2.1 as distributed from the Apache Software Foundation, but have discovered licensing issues w/ subsequent vendor specific add-ons?
Regards,
Alan
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by Aaron Peeler <aa...@ncsu.edu>.
Sorry Allen, I reread your statement and Yes that is correct. No issues
with ASF licenses but problems with vendor related applications.
Aaron
On 6/3/10 2:05 PM, Aaron Peeler wrote:
> No actually this is with the various software applications like SAS,
> Office, Adobe that are installed within the VCL environments. The
> environments that VCL provisions consist of an OS(windows,linux, etc)
> plus some set of applications, then a user (such as a student) request
> use of that environment through VCL web interface. Some windows based
> application vendors have a hard time understanding that the
> application is running remotely on hardware owned by said University
> or business, and not on the end-user's machine.
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
> On 6/3/10 1:53 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response,
>>> but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL
>>> pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can
>>> share licensing details of software that is being provided to
>>> students in a VCL environment.
>>> We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept.
>>> In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned
>>> machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have
>>> problems is providing access to this software from student (or any
>>> machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't
>>> have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not
>>> allowed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem
>>> for a student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab,
>>> but is a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine
>>> owned by a student?
>>> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow
>>> us to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal
>>> machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL
>>> implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at
>>> other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors
>>> are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be
>>> willing to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact info.
>>
>> Do I understand correctly when I say that you do not have a licensing
>> problem installing the core VCL, VCL-2.1 as distributed from the
>> Apache Software Foundation, but have discovered licensing issues w/
>> subsequent vendor specific add-ons?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Aaron Peeler
> Program Manager
> Virtual Computing Lab
> NC State University
> aaron_peeler@ncsu.edu
> 919-513-4571
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
aaron_peeler@ncsu.edu
919-513-4571
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response,
> but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL
> pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can
> share licensing details of software that is being provided to
> students in a VCL environment.
>
> We are finding that software vendors understand the VCL concept.
> In general, licenses allow the software to run on university owned
> machines, so it's legal to run in a VM. Where some vendors have
> problems is providing access to this software from student (or any
> machines not owned by the university) machines. Some vendors don't
> have a problem with this, but some tell us that this is not
> allowed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it's not a problem
> for a student to access the VCL from a university owned PC in a lab,
> but is a problem for the student to access the VCL from a machine
> owned by a student?
>
> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow
> us to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal
> machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL
> implementation, so we would like to learn more about licensing at
> other places that have implemented a VCL to check with what vendors
> are telling us. If you have a licensing manager who would be
> willing to talk to our licensing manager, please send me contact
> info.
Do I understand correctly when I say that you do not have a licensing
problem installing the core VCL, VCL-2.1 as distributed from the
Apache Software Foundation, but have discovered licensing issues w/
subsequent vendor specific add-ons?
Regards,
Alan
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by Aaron Peeler <aa...@ncsu.edu>.
Hello Dave,
As Mark mentioned there are some who have spent more time on this than
others and I have to say there is not a clear cut answer, as your
finding out one has to deal with it on a vendor by vendor basis.
Many vendors including MS are having trouble defining licensing terms
within cloud computing solutions. We are usually successfully once we
have explained the software is running on university owned machines. I
will provide you with the contact info of our NCSU license coordinator
off-list and you can contact him directly .
Aaron
On 6/2/10 4:51 PM, Mark Gardner wrote:
> Dave,
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr.
> <woodsdm2@muohio.edu <ma...@muohio.edu>> wrote:
>
> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response,
> but licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our
> VCL pilot project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone
> who can share licensing details of software that is being provided
> to students in a VCL environment.
>
> [snip]
>
> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to
> allow us to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s
> personal machine, but this would add a lot to the cost of a full
> scale VCL implementation, so we would like to learn more about
> licensing at other places that have implemented a VCL to check
> with what vendors are telling us. If you have a licensing manager
> who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager, please
> send me contact info.
>
> The VAVCL group meet last year and discussed software licensing. I
> believe John Krallman from Virginia Tech attended. There is also
> another meeting coming up in August. You can contact Sharon Pitt
> <spitt@gmu.edu <ma...@gmu.edu>> at George Mason University who
> can give you more details but here is the invitation I received:
>
> /"Current software licensing models can be barriers to
> consumer-orientated technology services. On August 11, 2010, you are
> invited to discuss new software licensing models that allow us to
> serve faculty, staff and students in innovative, improved and more
> cost effective ways. This statewide software summit will be held at
> Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, VA from 9:30am - 3:30pm.
> More information, including registration information, will be
> forthcoming. In the meantime, please hold the date."/
>
> I also believe that NC State has done quite a bit with licensing in
> the process of developing the VCL approach. You may be able to contact
> Harry Schaffer or others at NCSU for more information. (Sorry, I don't
> have any special insights into the issues of licensing.)
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Gardner
> --
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
aaron_peeler@ncsu.edu
919-513-4571
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by Henry E Schaffer <he...@unity.ncsu.edu>.
Bill writes:
> ... I saw the reference to the Software Meeting in Richmond on August
> 11th, and am curious if anyone has anymore information on this event.
This would be the "Virginia Software Summit", and I think that
"Sharon P. Pitt" <sp...@gmu.edu> is the organizer.
You may also be interested in the "1st Annual Summit on
Cloud-Delivered Software: Emerging Licensing Trends and Best Practices,"
NC State University, January 21-22, 2010,
http://www.ncsu.edu/it/open_source/summit-topics.html
--henry schaffer
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by IIT VCL <ii...@gmail.com>.
We are also finding that our implementation plans for a VCL at Illinois
Institute of Technology are being hampered by challenges with software
licensing. I saw the reference to the Software Meeting in Richmond on August
11th, and am curious if anyone has anymore information on this event.
Thanks,
Bill Ornt
ornt@iit.edu
Operations Manager, Technical services
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Mark Gardner <mk...@vt.edu> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. <wo...@muohio.edu>wrote:
>
>> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but
>> licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot
>> project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share
>> licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a VCL
>> environment.
>>
> [snip]
>
>> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow us
>> to allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal machine, but
>> this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL implementation, so we
>> would like to learn more about licensing at other places that have
>> implemented a VCL to check with what vendors are telling us. If you have a
>> licensing manager who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager,
>> please send me contact info.
>>
> The VAVCL group meet last year and discussed software licensing. I believe
> John Krallman from Virginia Tech attended. There is also another meeting
> coming up in August. You can contact Sharon Pitt <sp...@gmu.edu> at George
> Mason University who can give you more details but here is the invitation I
> received:
>
> *"Current software licensing models can be barriers to consumer-orientated
> technology services. On August 11, 2010, you are invited to discuss new
> software licensing models that allow us to serve faculty, staff and students
> in innovative, improved and more cost effective ways. This statewide
> software summit will be held at Virginia Commonwealth University in
> Richmond, VA from 9:30am - 3:30pm. More information, including registration
> information, will be forthcoming. In the meantime, please hold the date."
> *
>
> I also believe that NC State has done quite a bit with licensing in the
> process of developing the VCL approach. You may be able to contact Harry
> Schaffer or others at NCSU for more information. (Sorry, I don't have any
> special insights into the issues of licensing.)
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Gardner
> --
>
Re: Licensing aspects of a VCL project
Posted by Mark Gardner <mk...@vt.edu>.
Dave,
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Woods, David M. Dr. <wo...@muohio.edu>wrote:
> I've asked about this before, and didn't get a lot of response, but
> licensing issues are turning out to be a major issue in our VCL pilot
> project, so I would be interested in talking to anyone who can share
> licensing details of software that is being provided to students in a VCL
> environment.
>
[snip]
> The vendors would be happy to sell us additional licenses to allow us to
> allow students to access the VCL from the student’s personal machine, but
> this would add a lot to the cost of a full scale VCL implementation, so we
> would like to learn more about licensing at other places that have
> implemented a VCL to check with what vendors are telling us. If you have a
> licensing manager who would be willing to talk to our licensing manager,
> please send me contact info.
>
The VAVCL group meet last year and discussed software licensing. I believe
John Krallman from Virginia Tech attended. There is also another meeting
coming up in August. You can contact Sharon Pitt <sp...@gmu.edu> at George
Mason University who can give you more details but here is the invitation I
received:
*"Current software licensing models can be barriers to consumer-orientated
technology services. On August 11, 2010, you are invited to discuss new
software licensing models that allow us to serve faculty, staff and students
in innovative, improved and more cost effective ways. This statewide
software summit will be held at Virginia Commonwealth University in
Richmond, VA from 9:30am - 3:30pm. More information, including registration
information, will be forthcoming. In the meantime, please hold the date."*
I also believe that NC State has done quite a bit with licensing in the
process of developing the VCL approach. You may be able to contact Harry
Schaffer or others at NCSU for more information. (Sorry, I don't have any
special insights into the issues of licensing.)
Mark
--
Mark Gardner
--