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Posted to server-user@james.apache.org by Ch...@REQUISITE.com on 2002/12/30 22:37:05 UTC
Notification server
All,
I'm looking for a generic "notification server" (receives an XML doc and
user list and sends the doc formatted in a variety of ways using XSLT
depending upon the destination - WAP, SMTP, SMS, instant messaging, HTML,
etc).
James seams like it can be used for this, but not explicitly designed for
this (missing several formats that should be included for a generic
notification server). This seams like a Jakarta kind of project, but James
is about the closest thing I have found. Does anyone know of anything like
this going on in the open-source community?
Also, it seams like there should be a standard API for a web app to
communicate with a notification server, so that the actual notification
server implementation being used doesn't matter when coding the web app. I
have looked around on javasoft and the JSR's, and haven't seen anything like
this. Anyone know of anything like this in the works?
Thanks,
Chris
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Re: Notification server
Posted by Aaron Knauf <ak...@xtra.co.nz>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>JAMES is definitely the right thing, if you want to /receive/ messages
>>via SMTP. However, it sounds to me as if you want to /receive/ you
>>messages as a generically formatted XML message.
>
>
> There is no reason why the message body can't be XML.
Absolutely correct. SOAP is a fully featured specification for sending
more than just your basic XML message via a number of transports.
Whether or not the transport is SMTP, SOAP is a great way of doing this
kind of thing.
>
>
>>I would use SOAP for this.
>
>
> Are you aware that there are SOAP bindings for SMTP?
>
> ref: http://xml.apache.org/soap/faq/faq_chawke_smtp.html
> http://www.pocketsoap.com/specs/smtpbinding/
Yup, I certainly am.
>
>
>>Check out the Axis project, at http://xml.apache.org/axis.
>
>
> AXIS is an excellent package, and has an transports for HTTP, SMTP and JMS.
> I may be wrong, but I'm not sure if AXIS current supports server endpoints
> other than HTTP.
I haven't been keeping up with the Axis dev list recently, so I am not
sure, either.
>
> One of my thoughts, which I've added to the Wiki, has been to support SOAP
> services in James. I imagine that this would mostly involve matchers &
> mailets. If you are interested in SOAP, perhaps you'd like to contribute in
> this area.
>
I have thought about this one, too. The approach that I would
investigate first would be to embed Axis within a Mailet. I don't know
how much I want to bite off here. If the config stuff flies, I'll see
how that one goes first. (Incidentally, Mailet configuration would have
to be beefed up to support SOAP.)
> By the way, I am interested to hear of your SOAP Service for SMS.
>
The SOAP part of this is quite simple. All of our applications that
send SMS messages (and there are alot) use an stateless session EJB to
submit a ShortMessage object to an application that we wrote to take
care of the SMPP communications and the high load handling involved. We
simply use apache soap (not axis) to map a SOAP message to a
ShortMessage object a make the EJB call.
The main reason that we use SOAP at all is because of incompatibilities
between different versions of Weblogic.
In the next version of our SMS handling application, we may make SOAP
the primary interface, rather than EJB. (Much more open.)
Cheers
ADK
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RE: Notification server
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> JAMES is definitely the right thing, if you want to /receive/ messages
> via SMTP. However, it sounds to me as if you want to /receive/ you
> messages as a generically formatted XML message.
There is no reason why the message body can't be XML.
> I would use SOAP for this.
Are you aware that there are SOAP bindings for SMTP?
ref: http://xml.apache.org/soap/faq/faq_chawke_smtp.html
http://www.pocketsoap.com/specs/smtpbinding/
> Check out the Axis project, at http://xml.apache.org/axis.
AXIS is an excellent package, and has an transports for HTTP, SMTP and JMS.
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure if AXIS current supports server endpoints
other than HTTP.
One of my thoughts, which I've added to the Wiki, has been to support SOAP
services in James. I imagine that this would mostly involve matchers &
mailets. If you are interested in SOAP, perhaps you'd like to contribute in
this area.
By the way, I am interested to hear of your SOAP Service for SMS.
> * An XSLT transformation will not output SMTP or SMS.
I presume that he intended to use the XLST transform to produce the desired
content for the desired target messaging system.
--- Noel
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Re: Notification server
Posted by Aaron Knauf <ak...@xtra.co.nz>.
I will be burned as a heretic for saying this, but I don't believe that
JAMES is the product that you are looking for.
JAMES is definitely the right thing, if you want to /receive/ messages
via SMTP. However, it sounds to me as if you want to /receive/ you
messages as a generically formatted XML message. I would use SOAP for
this. Check out the Axis project, at http://xml.apache.org/axis.
I have actually written several applications similar to what you are
asking for. (Unfortunately I can't let you have the code.) I very much
doubt whether or not any kind of a standard API is in the works.
Messaging is just too diverse.
To address a few issues on which you were unclear in your email:
* How do WAP and HTML notifications work? The only way I can see that
this might work would be to put something on a web/wap site. This is
hardly a notification, as it requires a pull from the notifyee.
* How do you expect to send an SMS message? I work for a telco, so we
just send them direct to the SMS network, using the SMPP protocol.
Unless you work for a telco yourself, you will require a telco-provided
gateway. As far as I am aware, there is no industry standard interface
in to these gateways. (We have just written a SOAP one, for which we
invented the SOAP format.)
* An XSLT transformation will not output SMTP or SMS. These are
protocols, and are conversational in nature. The content of the message
could be generated using XSLT, however.
Hope you find this helpful
Cheers
ADK
Chris.Black@REQUISITE.com wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm looking for a generic "notification server" (receives an XML doc and
> user list and sends the doc formatted in a variety of ways using XSLT
> depending upon the destination - WAP, SMTP, SMS, instant messaging, HTML,
> etc).
>
> James seams like it can be used for this, but not explicitly designed for
> this (missing several formats that should be included for a generic
> notification server). This seams like a Jakarta kind of project, but James
> is about the closest thing I have found. Does anyone know of anything like
> this going on in the open-source community?
>
> Also, it seams like there should be a standard API for a web app to
> communicate with a notification server, so that the actual notification
> server implementation being used doesn't matter when coding the web app. I
> have looked around on javasoft and the JSR's, and haven't seen anything like
> this. Anyone know of anything like this in the works?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic mail transmission and any
> accompanying documents contain information belonging to the sender
> ("Information") that may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,distribution or action
> taken in reliance on the Information is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received the Information in error,please contact the sender by reply email
> and destroy all copies of the original email. Thank you. ²
>
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RE: Notification server
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> What a timing! we are currently discussing exactly what is the best way
> to allow Cocoon to be run as a Mailet since that requires some
> architectural additions in the way Cocoon abstracts input and output.
Excellent, perhaps we could help you by mentioning that the Mailet API is
about to go into a new design cycle heading towards V3, so check out our
initial ideas on wiki and if there are any more things you'd like addressed
during this process mail the james-dev list in the time honoured fasion.
> The cocoon architecture is designed to be abstracted from the input and
> output, but currently we implement two abstractions: servlet API and
> command line. Mailet API will be the next since Nicola is very
> interested in this as well.
I think he's becoming a bit of an evangelist for James :-)
> The Cocoon dev team will be definately happy if the James people (or any
> other interested party) could help us in the process of deciding what is
> the best way of offering Cocoon services as a mailet.
I'll lurk on the cocoon list.
d.
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Re: Notification server
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
On 30/12/02 23:00, "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Even Pier told me once that he would be interested in something like
> this since he is, in fact, already using XML->text serialization (but
> not thru Cocoon or James) to run the notification services his company runs.
Correct... For my employer, basically every email we send is rendered from
an XML document (or something that at the end, is consumed from SAX events).
Our model might not fit entirely in Cocoon, as we tie some of our processing
to DartMail from DoubleClick, but some of the components can be indeed
reused, like the text/plain writer (a renderer for a pseudo-HTML-like format
into plain text) and our "mime writer" (basically dealing with an XML-based
representation of a multipart MIME document, writing down chunks and
correctly encoding the whole kit'n'kaboodle, including i18n)...
My management is saying that they don't really mind if I "give those bits
away for free", so, from next year the classes will all be available in the
open... The only concern VNU still has is the "control" on the interfaces
ATM, given that we use those two tools every day in production, and my
management is scared by a possible "denaturation" from our original "KISS"
(keep it stupid and simple) idea.
Currently, both of them are simple SAX consumers (implementing
DocumentHandler), and we are planning to start distributing them with a BSD
license from http://www.vnunet.org/...
Note, the site is not yet up, if you want to get a peek at the code, just
ask, but I need to "legally" prepare it before anyone can use them...
Pier
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Re: Notification server
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Chris,
>
> It is actually a fairly straightforward application of James. You'd want a
> matcher to pick up those messages (with the doc attached), a mailet that
> would extract the docs run it through some transform engine, and then emit
> messages with the revised content into the pipeline.
>
> What do you feel is missing from James? Some of the items you mention are
> protocols, not formats. For example, I can send SMS messages through a
> gateway provider using SMTP, as I do with Verizon. I'm also working on a
> Mailet to use AllTel's HTTP FORM gateway. All that is necessary is a
> delivery mailet, just as the RemoteDelivery mailet implements SMTP delivery.
>
> As for your transformations, since we use Avalon underneath, I am wondering
> how hard it would be to incorporate the Cocoon pipeline into James. I'll CC
> Stefano Mazzocchi to ask Stefano if he has any idea.
What a timing! we are currently discussing exactly what is the best way
to allow Cocoon to be run as a Mailet since that requires some
architectural additions in the way Cocoon abstracts input and output.
The cocoon architecture is designed to be abstracted from the input and
output, but currently we implement two abstractions: servlet API and
command line. Mailet API will be the next since Nicola is very
interested in this as well.
Even Pier told me once that he would be interested in something like
this since he is, in fact, already using XML->text serialization (but
not thru Cocoon or James) to run the notification services his company runs.
The Cocoon dev team will be definately happy if the James people (or any
other interested party) could help us in the process of deciding what is
the best way of offering Cocoon services as a mailet.
> A "standard way" for the web server to send a notification message would be,
> of course, to use a standard protocol designed for that purpose: SMTP.
>
> --- Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris.Black@REQUISITE.com [mailto:Chris.Black@REQUISITE.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 16:37
> To: james-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Notification server
>
>
> All,
>
> I'm looking for a generic "notification server" (receives an XML doc and
> user list and sends the doc formatted in a variety of ways using XSLT
> depending upon the destination - WAP, SMTP, SMS, instant messaging, HTML,
> etc).
>
> James seams like it can be used for this, but not explicitly designed for
> this (missing several formats that should be included for a generic
> notification server). This seams like a Jakarta kind of project, but James
> is about the closest thing I have found. Does anyone know of anything like
> this going on in the open-source community?
>
> Also, it seams like there should be a standard API for a web app to
> communicate with a notification server, so that the actual notification
> server implementation being used doesn't matter when coding the web app. I
> have looked around on javasoft and the JSR's, and haven't seen anything like
> this. Anyone know of anything like this in the works?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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RE: Notification server
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Chris,
It is actually a fairly straightforward application of James. You'd want a
matcher to pick up those messages (with the doc attached), a mailet that
would extract the docs run it through some transform engine, and then emit
messages with the revised content into the pipeline.
What do you feel is missing from James? Some of the items you mention are
protocols, not formats. For example, I can send SMS messages through a
gateway provider using SMTP, as I do with Verizon. I'm also working on a
Mailet to use AllTel's HTTP FORM gateway. All that is necessary is a
delivery mailet, just as the RemoteDelivery mailet implements SMTP delivery.
As for your transformations, since we use Avalon underneath, I am wondering
how hard it would be to incorporate the Cocoon pipeline into James. I'll CC
Stefano Mazzocchi to ask Stefano if he has any idea.
A "standard way" for the web server to send a notification message would be,
of course, to use a standard protocol designed for that purpose: SMTP.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris.Black@REQUISITE.com [mailto:Chris.Black@REQUISITE.com]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 16:37
To: james-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Notification server
All,
I'm looking for a generic "notification server" (receives an XML doc and
user list and sends the doc formatted in a variety of ways using XSLT
depending upon the destination - WAP, SMTP, SMS, instant messaging, HTML,
etc).
James seams like it can be used for this, but not explicitly designed for
this (missing several formats that should be included for a generic
notification server). This seams like a Jakarta kind of project, but James
is about the closest thing I have found. Does anyone know of anything like
this going on in the open-source community?
Also, it seams like there should be a standard API for a web app to
communicate with a notification server, so that the actual notification
server implementation being used doesn't matter when coding the web app. I
have looked around on javasoft and the JSR's, and haven't seen anything like
this. Anyone know of anything like this in the works?
Thanks,
Chris
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