You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> on 2019/01/14 13:25:07 UTC
Re: Incubator exit interview
Isn't that starting off on the wrong foot?.... off list communication, non-transparancy,
treating the VP of the PMC as "more" than an administrative position, etc...
> On Dec 22, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Another idea is for Justin (or someone else active in the IPMC) to
> have a phone call with the incoming chair of the newly-graduated
> project. People are more likely to open up in an "off the record" and
> interactive setting.
>
> This would be in addition to the written questions.
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 1:38 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for putting this together. I took a quick look and have some
>>> suggestions (so perhaps getting the edit access would be good, if you are
>>> happy for me to change things).
>>>
>>
>> I'm happy for you to change things I'll give you access once in the front
>> of a real computer.
>>
>> The question about the Apache Way is a simple yes / no. I suppose no one is
>>> going to respond no when they have graduated or just about to graduate.
>>
>>
>> I'm willing to be surprised and I think we will get some nos If people
>> answer honestly.
>>
>> What does the Apache way mean to you?
>>> What do you think are the most important aspects of Apache culture?
>>> How would you describe the Apache Way?
>>> What you you understand about the Apache Way?
>>>
>>
>> All good questions, feel free to add them.
>>
>> The responses will be more text based and I hope will capture a bit more
>>> than a yes/no type question would.
>>
>>
>> I was trying to keep it short, the longer it is the less likely people will
>> fill it in.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Currently only a couple of people have access to the feedback directly, but my intent is for all the IPMC to have access. Anything that come up from the feedback will be brought back to the list and discussed. I’m just not sure how to arrange that, currently if any other IPMC members want access please ask. We’ve only had a couple filled in and already identified one issue which has been raised on the dev list. The intent is just to get feedback on who the incubator is going and if there’s anything that can be improved, some people are more direct and will provide feedback directly onto mailing list but by making anonymous I think we’ll get better quality feedback. If this experiment proves helpful then we see what be can do to improve openness and access, if not we’ll stop using it.
Perhaps we could add a tick box (or two) - do yo want this to be public? And if ticked send response to IPMC private or incubator dev list? Or pears just send all responses to IPMC private list so all the IPMC have access?
Thanks,
Justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by Sharan Foga <sh...@apache.org>.
Hi All
As Julian mentions, my understanding is that this is about information collection not about decision making. The more information we have that is relevant could encourage more focussed discussion and help us see if there is something unclear in the documentation or process.
If there is concern about talking to the PMC Chair only then perhaps it can be balanced by making the interview offer available to the PMC, the Committers or whole community.
Thanks
Sharan
On 2019/01/14 18:50:20, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
> What Roman said.
>
> And also, I make a distinction between communication (information gathering) and decision making. The Apache Way is that decisions occur on-list. It doesn’t say that all communication/information gathering is on-list.
>
> Julian
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:14 AM Kevin A. McGrail <km...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On 1/14/2019 1:01 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> >>> I don’t think the “decisions should be made on-list” principle applies to all communication. (Otherwise why would we allow hallway conversations at conferences?) I’d rather that we make better decisions than be slave to principle.
> >>>
> >> It really does apply to everything.
> >
> > As Mark Twain would say: all generalizations are false. Including this one ;-)
> >
> >> Even if you have the best meeting
> >> in the world, you bring back minutes and decisions made off list for
> >> ratification. That way there is then an archive of the decision and
> >> everyone can participate.
> >
> > I think if you unpack this statement you will see that there's an implicit
> > assumption about "collaborative things". That's 90+% of what ASF does.
> > And the statement applies there 100% -- no disagreement there.
> >
> > But there's also a small portion of things that have to do with humans,
> > personalities and personnel. That's where what - Julian mentioned really
> > starts making sense. At least in my book.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org>.
What Roman said.
And also, I make a distinction between communication (information gathering) and decision making. The Apache Way is that decisions occur on-list. It doesn’t say that all communication/information gathering is on-list.
Julian
> On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:14 AM Kevin A. McGrail <km...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 1/14/2019 1:01 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
>>> I don’t think the “decisions should be made on-list” principle applies to all communication. (Otherwise why would we allow hallway conversations at conferences?) I’d rather that we make better decisions than be slave to principle.
>>>
>> It really does apply to everything.
>
> As Mark Twain would say: all generalizations are false. Including this one ;-)
>
>> Even if you have the best meeting
>> in the world, you bring back minutes and decisions made off list for
>> ratification. That way there is then an archive of the decision and
>> everyone can participate.
>
> I think if you unpack this statement you will see that there's an implicit
> assumption about "collaborative things". That's 90+% of what ASF does.
> And the statement applies there 100% -- no disagreement there.
>
> But there's also a small portion of things that have to do with humans,
> personalities and personnel. That's where what - Julian mentioned really
> starts making sense. At least in my book.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:14 AM Kevin A. McGrail <km...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 1/14/2019 1:01 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > I don’t think the “decisions should be made on-list” principle applies to all communication. (Otherwise why would we allow hallway conversations at conferences?) I’d rather that we make better decisions than be slave to principle.
> >
> It really does apply to everything.
As Mark Twain would say: all generalizations are false. Including this one ;-)
> Even if you have the best meeting
> in the world, you bring back minutes and decisions made off list for
> ratification. That way there is then an archive of the decision and
> everyone can participate.
I think if you unpack this statement you will see that there's an implicit
assumption about "collaborative things". That's 90+% of what ASF does.
And the statement applies there 100% -- no disagreement there.
But there's also a small portion of things that have to do with humans,
personalities and personnel. That's where what - Julian mentioned really
starts making sense. At least in my book.
Thanks,
Roman.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <km...@apache.org>.
On 1/14/2019 1:01 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> I don’t think the “decisions should be made on-list” principle applies to all communication. (Otherwise why would we allow hallway conversations at conferences?) I’d rather that we make better decisions than be slave to principle.
>
It really does apply to everything. Even if you have the best meeting
in the world, you bring back minutes and decisions made off list for
ratification. That way there is then an archive of the decision and
everyone can participate.
Regards,
KAM
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator exit interview
Posted by Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org>.
I don’t think the “decisions should be made on-list” principle applies to all communication. (Otherwise why would we allow hallway conversations at conferences?) I’d rather that we make better decisions than be slave to principle.
These interviews would be in addition to on-list surveys.
Julian
> On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:25 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> wrote:
>
> Isn't that starting off on the wrong foot?.... off list communication, non-transparancy,
> treating the VP of the PMC as "more" than an administrative position, etc...
>
>> On Dec 22, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Another idea is for Justin (or someone else active in the IPMC) to
>> have a phone call with the incoming chair of the newly-graduated
>> project. People are more likely to open up in an "off the record" and
>> interactive setting.
>>
>> This would be in addition to the written questions.
>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 1:38 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for putting this together. I took a quick look and have some
>>>> suggestions (so perhaps getting the edit access would be good, if you are
>>>> happy for me to change things).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm happy for you to change things I'll give you access once in the front
>>> of a real computer.
>>>
>>> The question about the Apache Way is a simple yes / no. I suppose no one is
>>>> going to respond no when they have graduated or just about to graduate.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm willing to be surprised and I think we will get some nos If people
>>> answer honestly.
>>>
>>> What does the Apache way mean to you?
>>>> What do you think are the most important aspects of Apache culture?
>>>> How would you describe the Apache Way?
>>>> What you you understand about the Apache Way?
>>>>
>>>
>>> All good questions, feel free to add them.
>>>
>>> The responses will be more text based and I hope will capture a bit more
>>>> than a yes/no type question would.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was trying to keep it short, the longer it is the less likely people will
>>> fill it in.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org