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Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> on 2019/04/12 12:28:42 UTC
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Hi All,
This is now done. When should we switch the trunk and R18 to Java 11?
Thanks
Jacques
Le 05/03/2019 à 17:53, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> I agree with all proposal that make sens :)
>
> Nicolas
>
> On 04/03/2019 12:31, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 04/03/2019 à 11:34, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> I think that the simplest way to convey this message is to edit the README
>>> document with a link to OpenJDK rather than Oracle JDK.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:22 AM Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We should then make clear to our users that they will need to switch to
>>>> OpenJDK if they want free security support.
>>>>
>>>> I guess most are aware, but maybe not small companies or single users.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 28/02/2019 à 18:48, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> +1 for Taher's suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 28.02.19 um 12:32 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>> Perhaps we can keep ofbiz 17.12 on java 8, and let 18.12 and trunk
>>>>>> switch to java 11 on openjdk. This might provide stability expected by
>>>>>> users as indicated by Michael.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jacques Le Roux
>>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> During discussions in the "Oracle Java release model changes and
>>>> consequences for the project" thread, we created "Upgrade OFBiz to use Java
>>>> JDK
>>>>>>> Version 11" aka OFBIZ-10757.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There we began to discuss not only if we should switch to Java 11 LTS
>>>> (Long Time Support), which is obviously the best current choice, but also
>>>> which
>>>>>>> Java JDK origin we should use OOTB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So we have few options and we should clarify what the community wants.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Options are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Do we agree to use https://adoptopenjdk.net/releases.html as
>>>> Java JDK origin OOTB?
>>>>>>> 2. Which branches should switch to Java1? Obviously the trunk and
>>>> R18 should. Should R17, which is not yet released, switch also?
>>>>>>> I hope we don't need a vote and will quickly find a consensus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Thanks Taher,
I believe it helps. Maybe you can share in tools?
I have something similar on Windows 7. A bit more convoluted because I copy the selected JDK on a RAM Disk (it's still faster than SSD
<https://dzone.com/articles/accelerating-build-using-ram-disk>) and switch between them with bat files.
My intent is to share the mechanism with the community. I know not much OFBiz dev work with Windows, but it seems more users are.
Jacques
Le 15/04/2019 à 09:34, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> Hi Scott,
>
> I'm not sure if this helps with running two versions simultaneously, but I
> have multiple versions on my machine, and I setup the $JAVA_HOME to point
> to /opt/jdk which in turn is a symlink to the JDK found in /opt/java/jdk8.
> This way changing the jdk version is as fast as changing the symlink. I
> even wrote a little script that looks up versions and I select the one most
> appropriate.
>
> Of course this is a side note, staying on Java 8 is fine by me given
> getting more contributions from the community including yourself. I remain
> on the fence.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 1:08 AM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>
>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
>> supported version as low as possible.
>>
>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>
>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
>> in front of.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon
>> (2019
>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>
>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason
>> for
>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
>> switch
>>> to openjdk.
>>>
>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
>>> to
>>>> medium term.
>>>>
>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
>> 2023?
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Scott,
I'm not sure if this helps with running two versions simultaneously, but I
have multiple versions on my machine, and I setup the $JAVA_HOME to point
to /opt/jdk which in turn is a symlink to the JDK found in /opt/java/jdk8.
This way changing the jdk version is as fast as changing the symlink. I
even wrote a little script that looks up versions and I select the one most
appropriate.
Of course this is a side note, staying on Java 8 is fine by me given
getting more contributions from the community including yourself. I remain
on the fence.
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 1:08 AM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
wrote:
> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>
> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
> supported version as low as possible.
>
> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
> for quite a while and work on other things.
>
> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
> in front of.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon
> (2019
> > commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
> > LTS is out which is java 11.
> >
> > Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> > pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason
> for
> > the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
> switch
> > to openjdk.
> >
> > With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
> > wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> >
> > [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
> > to
> > > medium term.
> > >
> > > Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
> 2023?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> > jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> > > > build.gradle) in 3 days
> > > >
> > > > Jacques
> > > >
> > > > Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > > > > On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > > > >> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> > > > >
> > > > > I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> > > > >
> > > > > Nicolas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Good idea Nicolas
Le 05/02/2021 à 14:37, Pawan Verma a écrit :
> +1 Nicolas
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Pawan Verma <pa...@apache.org>.
+1 Nicolas
--
Thanks & Regards
Pawan Verma
ofbiz.apache.org
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 6:03 PM Nicolas Malin <ni...@nereide.fr>
wrote:
> +1 to stabilize on jdk11 for next release branch and move forward to
> jdk17 for trunk
>
> Nicolas
>
> On 04/02/2021 13:12, Aditya Sharma wrote:
> > +1 for jdk11
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Aditya Sharma
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:02 AM Suraj Khurana <su...@hotwax.co>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> +1 for jdk11.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Suraj Khurana
> >> Senior Technical Consultant
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:30 AM Eugen Stan <eu...@netdava.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1 for jdk11.
> >>>
> >>> We can focus on jdk17 once it's out.
> >>> The transition will probably require some work.
> >>>
> >>> jdk17 is attractive though in terms of language features and
> >> enhancements.
> >>> We could use multiple JDK's to build OFBiz .
> >>> I can set this up in Jenkins or github actions with the community
> >>> consent / support.
> >>>
> >>> Well I kind of did it for jdk8 and jdk11 for both amd64 and arm64 with
> >>> docker images -
> >>> https://github.com/ieugen/ofbiz-framework/actions/runs/510286929 .
> >>>
> >>> But it's not official and would like to upstream it (hint hint).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> --
> >>> Eugen Stan
> >>> +40720 898 747 / netdava.com
> >>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Nicolas Malin <ni...@nereide.fr>.
+1 to stabilize on jdk11 for next release branch and move forward to
jdk17 for trunk
Nicolas
On 04/02/2021 13:12, Aditya Sharma wrote:
> +1 for jdk11
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Aditya Sharma
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:02 AM Suraj Khurana <su...@hotwax.co>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> +1 for jdk11.
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Suraj Khurana
>> Senior Technical Consultant
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:30 AM Eugen Stan <eu...@netdava.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 for jdk11.
>>>
>>> We can focus on jdk17 once it's out.
>>> The transition will probably require some work.
>>>
>>> jdk17 is attractive though in terms of language features and
>> enhancements.
>>> We could use multiple JDK's to build OFBiz .
>>> I can set this up in Jenkins or github actions with the community
>>> consent / support.
>>>
>>> Well I kind of did it for jdk8 and jdk11 for both amd64 and arm64 with
>>> docker images -
>>> https://github.com/ieugen/ofbiz-framework/actions/runs/510286929 .
>>>
>>> But it's not official and would like to upstream it (hint hint).
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> --
>>> Eugen Stan
>>> +40720 898 747 / netdava.com
>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org>.
+1 for jdk11
Thanks and regards,
Aditya Sharma
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:02 AM Suraj Khurana <su...@hotwax.co>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> +1 for jdk11.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Suraj Khurana
> Senior Technical Consultant
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:30 AM Eugen Stan <eu...@netdava.com> wrote:
>
> > +1 for jdk11.
> >
> > We can focus on jdk17 once it's out.
> > The transition will probably require some work.
> >
> > jdk17 is attractive though in terms of language features and
> enhancements.
> >
> > We could use multiple JDK's to build OFBiz .
> > I can set this up in Jenkins or github actions with the community
> > consent / support.
> >
> > Well I kind of did it for jdk8 and jdk11 for both amd64 and arm64 with
> > docker images -
> > https://github.com/ieugen/ofbiz-framework/actions/runs/510286929 .
> >
> > But it's not official and would like to upstream it (hint hint).
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Eugen Stan
> > +40720 898 747 / netdava.com
> >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Suraj Khurana <su...@hotwax.co>.
Hi,
+1 for jdk11.
--
Best Regards,
Suraj Khurana
Senior Technical Consultant
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:30 AM Eugen Stan <eu...@netdava.com> wrote:
> +1 for jdk11.
>
> We can focus on jdk17 once it's out.
> The transition will probably require some work.
>
> jdk17 is attractive though in terms of language features and enhancements.
>
> We could use multiple JDK's to build OFBiz .
> I can set this up in Jenkins or github actions with the community
> consent / support.
>
> Well I kind of did it for jdk8 and jdk11 for both amd64 and arm64 with
> docker images -
> https://github.com/ieugen/ofbiz-framework/actions/runs/510286929 .
>
> But it's not official and would like to upstream it (hint hint).
>
>
> Regards,
> --
> Eugen Stan
> +40720 898 747 / netdava.com
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Eugen Stan <eu...@netdava.com>.
+1 for jdk11.
We can focus on jdk17 once it's out.
The transition will probably require some work.
jdk17 is attractive though in terms of language features and enhancements.
We could use multiple JDK's to build OFBiz .
I can set this up in Jenkins or github actions with the community
consent / support.
Well I kind of did it for jdk8 and jdk11 for both amd64 and arm64 with
docker images -
https://github.com/ieugen/ofbiz-framework/actions/runs/510286929 .
But it's not official and would like to upstream it (hint hint).
Regards,
--
Eugen Stan
+40720 898 747 / netdava.com
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Girish Vasmatkar <gi...@hotwaxsystems.com>.
I'm also inclined to go with jdk11.
Best,
Girish
On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:58 PM Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> +1 for 11
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 03/02/2021 à 17:20, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > there was the idea to make the official switch to jdk11 within the next
> new branch which possibly will be 21.x .
> >
> > jdk11 will be available at least until October 2024.
> >
> > jdk17 (LTS) will be available from September 2021 and be available until
> 2025 (four years).
> >
> > I think we should decide if we want jdk11 to be the next supported JDK
> for OFBiz r21 or if we want to go with jdk17.
> >
> > I tend to go with jdk11 which is mature and available and the community
> already made OFBiz ready for it. (See
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-10757).
> >
> > For jdk17 we'll have to wait until September and gain one more year of
> support.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Michael Brohl
> >
> > ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >
> >
> > Am 19.04.19 um 23:09 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> >> Ah OK
> >>
> >> Le 19/04/2019 à 21:16, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>> It's already done. I'm suggesting future actions for future JDKs
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 8:53 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Taher,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it
> >>>> until we swap?
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be
> confusing
> >>>> after a moment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> >>>>> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
> >>>>> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
> >>>>> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
> >>>>> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
> >>>>> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
> >>>>> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be
> a
> >>>>> task regularly done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
> >>>>> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
> >>>>> compatible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
> >>>>> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
> >>>>>> - compelling new features
> >>>>>> - end of support of current minimum
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
> >>>>>> - potential instability of new version
> >>>>>> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
> >>>> existing
> >>>>>> minimum
> >>>>>> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
> >>>> worth
> >>>>>> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
> >>>> personally
> >>>>>> I don't really see it at the moment.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a
> consideration at
> >>>>>> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
> >>>> probably
> >>>>>> be a year old :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <michael.brohl@ecomify.de
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now
> for
> >>>>>>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the
> short
> >>>>>>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of
> the
> >>>>>>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until
> Sept.
> >>>>>>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we
> can
> >>>>>>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the
> release
> >>>>>>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases
> will
> >>>>>>> have support for at least 4 years.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16
> to 18
> >>>>>>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This
> should
> >>>>>>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5
> years
> >>>>>>> then.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS
> version
> >>>>>>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create
> a new
> >>>>>>> release branch in the course of this.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> >>>>>>>> Hi Michael,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you
> recommending
> >>>>>>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk)
> and
> >>>>>>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
> >>>> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Scott, all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September
> 2023
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8
> LTS
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
> >>>> strategy
> >>>>>>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as
> long
> >>>> as
> >>>>>>>>> it is reasonable.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS
> with
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right
> before
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to
> test
> >>>>>>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk
> after
> >>>>>>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on
> Java 11.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> >>>>>>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until
> 2023.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the
> code
> >>>> base
> >>>>>>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum
> required
> >>>>>>> version
> >>>>>>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run
> whatever
> >>>>>>> version
> >>>>>>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in
> java
> >>>>>>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
> >>>>>>> minimum
> >>>>>>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8
> (openjdk)
> >>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to
> figure
> >>>>>>> out
> >>>>>>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
> >>>> Since
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just
> put it
> >>>>>>> off
> >>>>>>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to
> proceed
> >>>>>>> then it
> >>>>>>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting
> another
> >>>>>>> hurdle
> >>>>>>>>>> in front of.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
> >>>>>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
> >>>> soon
> >>>>>>> (2019
> >>>>>>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case
> because
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying
> which
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
> >>>>>>> reason for
> >>>>>>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade
> java and
> >>>>>>> switch
> >>>>>>>>>>> to openjdk.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading
> and
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to
> decide.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>
> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
> >>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in
> the
> >>>>>>> short
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> medium term.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported
> through to
> >>>>>>> 2023?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> >>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java
> 11
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with
> Java
> >>>> 11
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Michael,
+1 for 11
Jacques
Le 03/02/2021 à 17:20, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> there was the idea to make the official switch to jdk11 within the next new branch which possibly will be 21.x .
>
> jdk11 will be available at least until October 2024.
>
> jdk17 (LTS) will be available from September 2021 and be available until 2025 (four years).
>
> I think we should decide if we want jdk11 to be the next supported JDK for OFBiz r21 or if we want to go with jdk17.
>
> I tend to go with jdk11 which is mature and available and the community already made OFBiz ready for it. (See
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-10757).
>
> For jdk17 we'll have to wait until September and gain one more year of support.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Michael Brohl
>
> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 19.04.19 um 23:09 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>> Ah OK
>>
>> Le 19/04/2019 à 21:16, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> It's already done. I'm suggesting future actions for future JDKs
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 8:53 PM Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Taher,
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it
>>>> until we swap?
>>>>
>>>> I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be confusing
>>>> after a moment.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>>> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
>>>>> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
>>>>> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
>>>>> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
>>>>> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
>>>>> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
>>>>> task regularly done.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
>>>>> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
>>>>> compatible.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
>>>>> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
>>>>>> - compelling new features
>>>>>> - end of support of current minimum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
>>>>>> - potential instability of new version
>>>>>> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
>>>> existing
>>>>>> minimum
>>>>>> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
>>>> worth
>>>>>> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
>>>> personally
>>>>>> I don't really see it at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
>>>>>> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
>>>> probably
>>>>>> be a year old :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
>>>>>>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
>>>>>>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
>>>>>>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
>>>>>>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
>>>>>>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
>>>>>>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
>>>>>>> have support for at least 4 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
>>>>>>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
>>>>>>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
>>>>>>> then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
>>>>>>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
>>>>>>> release branch in the course of this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
>>>>>>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
>>>>>>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
>>>> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Scott, all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
>>>> strategy
>>>>>>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long
>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> it is reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
>>>>>>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
>>>>>>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>>>>>>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code
>>>> base
>>>>>>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>>>>>>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
>>>>>>> minimum
>>>>>>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk)
>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
>>>> Since
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
>>>>>>> then it
>>>>>>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
>>>>>>> hurdle
>>>>>>>>>> in front of.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
>>>>>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
>>>> soon
>>>>>>> (2019
>>>>>>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because
>>>> the
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
>>>>>>> reason for
>>>>>>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>>> to openjdk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and
>>>> I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
>>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> medium term.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
>>>>>>> 2023?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java
>>>> 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>.
Hi all,
there was the idea to make the official switch to jdk11 within the next
new branch which possibly will be 21.x .
jdk11 will be available at least until October 2024.
jdk17 (LTS) will be available from September 2021 and be available until
2025 (four years).
I think we should decide if we want jdk11 to be the next supported JDK
for OFBiz r21 or if we want to go with jdk17.
I tend to go with jdk11 which is mature and available and the community
already made OFBiz ready for it. (See
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-10757).
For jdk17 we'll have to wait until September and gain one more year of
support.
What do you think?
Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
Am 19.04.19 um 23:09 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> Ah OK
>
> Le 19/04/2019 à 21:16, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> It's already done. I'm suggesting future actions for future JDKs
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 8:53 PM Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Taher,
>>>
>>> Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
>>>
>>> Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it
>>> until we swap?
>>>
>>> I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be
>>> confusing
>>> after a moment.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>>> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
>>>> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
>>>> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
>>>> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
>>>> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
>>>> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
>>>> task regularly done.
>>>>
>>>> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
>>>> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
>>>> compatible.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
>>>> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
>>>>> - compelling new features
>>>>> - end of support of current minimum
>>>>>
>>>>> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
>>>>> - potential instability of new version
>>>>> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
>>> existing
>>>>> minimum
>>>>> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
>>>>>
>>>>> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
>>> worth
>>>>> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
>>> personally
>>>>> I don't really see it at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a
>>>>> consideration at
>>>>> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
>>> probably
>>>>> be a year old :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
>>>>>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the
>>>>>> short
>>>>>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until
>>>>>> Sept.
>>>>>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
>>>>>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> have support for at least 4 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16
>>>>>> to 18
>>>>>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS
>>>>>> version
>>>>>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create
>>>>>> a new
>>>>>> release branch in the course of this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
>>>>>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk)
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
>>> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Scott, all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile
>>>>>>>> September 2023
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8
>>>>>>>> LTS
>>> for
>>>>>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
>>> strategy
>>>>>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as
>>>>>>>> long
>>> as
>>>>>>>> it is reasonable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with
>>> the
>>>>>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before
>>> the
>>>>>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to
>>>>>>>> test
>>>>>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on
>>>>>>>> Java 11.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>>>>>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until
>>>>>>>>> 2023.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the
>>>>>>>>> code
>>> base
>>>>>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum
>>>>>>>>> required
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run
>>>>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features
>>>>>>>>> in java
>>>>>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
>>>>>> minimum
>>>>>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8
>>>>>>>>> (openjdk)
>>> so
>>>>>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to
>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
>>> Since
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just
>>>>>>>>> put it
>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to
>>>>>>>>> proceed
>>>>>> then it
>>>>>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>> hurdle
>>>>>>>>> in front of.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
>>>>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
>>> soon
>>>>>> (2019
>>>>>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because
>>> the
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
>>>>>> reason for
>>>>>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade
>>>>>>>>>> java and
>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>> to openjdk.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on
>>>>>>>>>> upgrading and
>>> I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
>>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me
>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> medium term.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported
>>>>>>>>>>> through to
>>>>>> 2023?
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Java 11
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java
>>> 11
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Ah OK
Le 19/04/2019 à 21:16, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> It's already done. I'm suggesting future actions for future JDKs
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 8:53 PM Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Taher,
>>
>> Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
>>
>> Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it
>> until we swap?
>>
>> I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be confusing
>> after a moment.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>>> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
>>> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
>>> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
>>> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
>>> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
>>> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
>>> task regularly done.
>>>
>>> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
>>> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
>>> compatible.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
>>> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
>>>> - compelling new features
>>>> - end of support of current minimum
>>>>
>>>> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
>>>> - potential instability of new version
>>>> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
>> existing
>>>> minimum
>>>> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
>>>>
>>>> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
>> worth
>>>> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
>> personally
>>>> I don't really see it at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
>>>> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
>> probably
>>>> be a year old :)
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
>>>>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
>>>>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
>>>>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
>>>>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
>>>>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
>>>>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
>>>>> have support for at least 4 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
>>>>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
>>>>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
>>>>> then.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
>>>>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
>>>>> release branch in the course of this.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>
>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
>>>>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
>>>>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
>> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Scott, all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS
>> for
>>>>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
>> strategy
>>>>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long
>> as
>>>>>>> it is reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with
>> the
>>>>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before
>> the
>>>>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
>>>>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
>>>>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>>>>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code
>> base
>>>>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
>>>>> version
>>>>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
>>>>> version
>>>>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>>>>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
>>>>> minimum
>>>>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk)
>> so
>>>>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
>> Since
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
>>>>> off
>>>>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
>>>>> then it
>>>>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
>>>>> hurdle
>>>>>>>> in front of.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
>>>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
>> soon
>>>>> (2019
>>>>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because
>> the
>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which
>> is
>>>>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
>>>>> reason for
>>>>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>> to openjdk.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and
>> I
>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
>>>>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> medium term.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
>>>>> 2023?
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11
>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java
>> 11
>>>>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
It's already done. I'm suggesting future actions for future JDKs
On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 8:53 PM Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>
wrote:
> Hi Taher,
>
> Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
>
> Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it
> until we swap?
>
> I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be confusing
> after a moment.
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> > I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
> > beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
> > people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
> > have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
> > "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
> > faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
> > task regularly done.
> >
> > So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
> > operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
> > compatible.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
> > <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
> >> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
> >> - compelling new features
> >> - end of support of current minimum
> >>
> >> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
> >> - potential instability of new version
> >> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
> existing
> >> minimum
> >> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
> >>
> >> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
> worth
> >> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
> personally
> >> I don't really see it at the moment.
> >>
> >> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
> >> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
> probably
> >> be a year old :)
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
> >>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
> >>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
> >>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
> >>>
> >>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
> >>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
> >>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
> >>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
> >>> have support for at least 4 years.
> >>>
> >>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
> >>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
> >>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
> >>>
> >>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
> >>> then.
> >>>
> >>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
> >>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
> >>> release branch in the course of this.
> >>>
> >>> What do you think?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Michael Brohl
> >>>
> >>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> >>>> Hi Michael,
> >>>>
> >>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
> >>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
> >>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Scott, all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
> >>> [1]
> >>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS
> for
> >>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
> strategy
> >>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long
> as
> >>>>> it is reasonable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with
> the
> >>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before
> the
> >>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
> >>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
> >>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> >>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code
> base
> >>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
> >>> version
> >>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
> >>> version
> >>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> >>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
> >>> minimum
> >>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk)
> so
> >>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
> >>> out
> >>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
> Since
> >>> I
> >>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
> >>> off
> >>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
> >>> then it
> >>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
> >>> hurdle
> >>>>>> in front of.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
> >>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
> soon
> >>> (2019
> >>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because
> the
> >>> new
> >>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which
> is
> >>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
> >>> reason for
> >>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
> >>> switch
> >>>>>>> to openjdk.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and
> I
> >>> just
> >>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
> >>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
> >>> short
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> medium term.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
> >>> 2023?
> >>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> >>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11
> in
> >>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java
> 11
> >>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Taher,
Sounds like a plan, will you create those Jiras Taher?
Maybe as subtasks of OFBIZ-10757, or simply reusing it w/o closing it until we swap?
I believe the later is the easiest for all of us, but could be confusing after a moment.
Jacques
Le 17/04/2019 à 10:02, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
> task regularly done.
>
> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
> compatible.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
>> - compelling new features
>> - end of support of current minimum
>>
>> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
>> - potential instability of new version
>> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the existing
>> minimum
>> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
>>
>> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's worth
>> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and personally
>> I don't really see it at the moment.
>>
>> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
>> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will probably
>> be a year old :)
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
>>>
>>> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
>>> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
>>> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
>>> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
>>>
>>> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
>>> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
>>> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
>>> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
>>> have support for at least 4 years.
>>>
>>> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
>>> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
>>> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
>>>
>>> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
>>> then.
>>>
>>> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
>>> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
>>> release branch in the course of this.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>>
>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>
>>>> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
>>>> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
>>>> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Scott, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
>>> [1]
>>>>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
>>>>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
>>>>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
>>>>> it is reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
>>>>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
>>>>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
>>>>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
>>>>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>
>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>>>>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
>>>>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
>>> version
>>>>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
>>> version
>>>>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>>>>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
>>> minimum
>>>>>> supported version as low as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
>>>>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
>>> out
>>>>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since
>>> I
>>>>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
>>> off
>>>>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
>>> then it
>>>>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
>>> hurdle
>>>>>> in front of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon
>>> (2019
>>>>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the
>>> new
>>>>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
>>>>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
>>> reason for
>>>>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
>>> switch
>>>>>>> to openjdk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I
>>> just
>>>>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
>>> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
>>> short
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> medium term.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
>>> 2023?
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
>>>>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>>>>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@apache.org>.
We can have several CI jobs that check the code base against any future JDK
version (even against variants from different providers. Failures to
build/run test could lead to JIRA tickets to follow up.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
*Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:02 AM Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
> beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
> people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
> have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
> "minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
> faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
> task regularly done.
>
> So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
> operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
> compatible.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
> <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
> >
> > Reasons to increase the minimum version:
> > - compelling new features
> > - end of support of current minimum
> >
> > Reasons to not increase the minimum:
> > - potential instability of new version
> > - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the
> existing
> > minimum
> > - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
> >
> > I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's
> worth
> > shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and
> personally
> > I don't really see it at the moment.
> >
> > The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
> > this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will
> probably
> > be a year old :)
> >
> > Regards
> > Scott
> >
> > On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
> > >
> > > Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
> > > trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
> > > cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
> > > Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
> > >
> > > I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
> > > 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
> > > then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
> > > branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
> > > have support for at least 4 years.
> > >
> > > That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
> > > and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
> > > give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
> > >
> > > Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
> > > then.
> > >
> > > For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
> > > about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
> > > release branch in the course of this.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Michael Brohl
> > >
> > > ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > > > Hi Michael,
> > > >
> > > > So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
> > > > that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
> > > > introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <
> michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> Hi Scott, all,
> > > >>
> > > >> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September
> 2023
> > > [1]
> > > >>
> > > >> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS
> for
> > > >> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
> > > >>
> > > >> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update
> strategy
> > > >> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long
> as
> > > >> it is reasonable.
> > > >>
> > > >> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with
> the
> > > >> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before
> the
> > > >> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
> > > >> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk
> after
> > > >> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java
> 11.
> > > >>
> > > >> What do you think?
> > > >>
> > > >> Best regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Michael Brohl
> > > >>
> > > >> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> > > >>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code
> base
> > > >>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
> > > version
> > > >>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
> > > version
> > > >>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in
> java
> > > >>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
> > > minimum
> > > >>> supported version as low as possible.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk)
> so
> > > >>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to
> figure
> > > out
> > > >>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption.
> Since
> > > I
> > > >>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put
> it
> > > off
> > > >>> for quite a while and work on other things.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
> > > then it
> > > >>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
> > > hurdle
> > > >>> in front of.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regards
> > > >>> Scott
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
> > > slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming
> soon
> > > (2019
> > > >>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because
> the
> > > new
> > > >>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying
> which is
> > > >>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
> > > reason for
> > > >>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java
> and
> > > switch
> > > >>>> to openjdk.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading
> and I
> > > just
> > > >>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> [1]
> > > https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
> > > scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
> > > short
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>> medium term.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through
> to
> > > 2023?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Regards
> > > >>>>> Scott
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> > > >>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11
> in
> > > >>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Jacques
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > > >>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with
> Java 11
> > > >>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Nicolas
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > >
> > >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
I see no problem in sticking with 8. It would also probably be
beneficial to get the code base to be compatible with Java 11 so that
people who want to upgrade are not restricted from doing so (which we
have done already). In other words, like Scott said, it should be a
"minimum" instead of a "maximum". When we were trying to upgrade we
faced some obstacles and resolved them. which means this needs to be a
task regularly done.
So we could perhaps regularly create JIRAs like "Ensure OFBiz can
operate on Java version X" so that the code base is always forward
compatible.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Scott Gray
<sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>
> Reasons to increase the minimum version:
> - compelling new features
> - end of support of current minimum
>
> Reasons to not increase the minimum:
> - potential instability of new version
> - complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the existing
> minimum
> - lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
>
> I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's worth
> shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and personally
> I don't really see it at the moment.
>
> The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
> this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will probably
> be a year old :)
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>
> > Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
> >
> > Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
> > trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
> > cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
> > Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
> >
> > I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
> > 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
> > then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
> > branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
> > have support for at least 4 years.
> >
> > That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
> > and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
> > give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
> >
> > Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
> > then.
> >
> > For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
> > about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
> > release branch in the course of this.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael Brohl
> >
> > ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >
> >
> > Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > > Hi Michael,
> > >
> > > So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
> > > that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
> > > introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
> > wrote:
> > >> Hi Scott, all,
> > >>
> > >> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
> > [1]
> > >>
> > >> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
> > >> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
> > >>
> > >> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
> > >> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
> > >> it is reasonable.
> > >>
> > >> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
> > >> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
> > >> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
> > >> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
> > >> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think?
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >>
> > >> Michael Brohl
> > >>
> > >> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> > >>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
> > >>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
> > version
> > >>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
> > version
> > >>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> > >>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
> > minimum
> > >>> supported version as low as possible.
> > >>>
> > >>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
> > >>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
> > out
> > >>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since
> > I
> > >>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
> > off
> > >>> for quite a while and work on other things.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
> > then it
> > >>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
> > hurdle
> > >>> in front of.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
> > slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon
> > (2019
> > >>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the
> > new
> > >>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> > >>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
> > reason for
> > >>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
> > switch
> > >>>> to openjdk.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I
> > just
> > >>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [1]
> > https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
> > scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
> > short
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>> medium term.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
> > 2023?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards
> > >>>>> Scott
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> > >>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> > >>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Jacques
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > >>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> > >>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Nicolas
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> >
> >
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>.
Reasons to increase the minimum version:
- compelling new features
- end of support of current minimum
Reasons to not increase the minimum:
- potential instability of new version
- complicates the life of users and contributors who still use the existing
minimum
- lack of expertise in configuring and using new features
I think every few months we should discuss it but I don't think it's worth
shifting any time soon. The pros need to outweigh the cons, and personally
I don't really see it at the moment.
The end of support date for 11 probably shouldn't be a consideration at
this point, by the time we even get close to that java 23 LTS will probably
be a year old :)
Regards
Scott
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019, 00:50 Michael Brohl, <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
> Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
>
> Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
> trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
> cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
> Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
>
> I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
> 2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
> then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
> branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
> have support for at least 4 years.
>
> That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
> and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
> give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
>
> Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years
> then.
>
> For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
> about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
> release branch in the course of this.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
>
> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
> > that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
> > introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Scott, all,
> >>
> >> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023
> [1]
> >>
> >> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
> >> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
> >>
> >> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
> >> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
> >> it is reasonable.
> >>
> >> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
> >> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
> >> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
> >> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
> >> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Michael Brohl
> >>
> >> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> >>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
> >>>
> >>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
> >>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required
> version
> >>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever
> version
> >>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> >>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our
> minimum
> >>> supported version as low as possible.
> >>>
> >>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
> >>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure
> out
> >>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since
> I
> >>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it
> off
> >>> for quite a while and work on other things.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed
> then it
> >>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another
> hurdle
> >>> in front of.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <
> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon
> (2019
> >>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the
> new
> >>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> >>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the
> reason for
> >>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and
> switch
> >>>> to openjdk.
> >>>>
> >>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I
> just
> >>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <
> scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the
> short
> >>>> to
> >>>>> medium term.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to
> 2023?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Scott
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> >>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> >>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> >>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>.
Ah, sorry Taher if I was not clear enough.
Yes, I think we should do the switch to Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS now for
trunk, 18.12 and 17.12 to make the project independent from the short
cycled releases of the Oracle JDK and the subscription for use of the
Oracle JDK 8 LTS.
I just recognized that Adopt JDK 11 LTS will be available until Sept.
2022. If that is not a mistake I have to refine the timeline: we can
then switch to Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS on trunk right before the release
branch for 19.x is created. I guess that the future LTS releases will
have support for at least 4 years.
That means we would remain Java 8 compatible for the releases 16 to 18
and announce the Java 11 dependency for release 19 and up. This should
give users enough time to plan, test and migrate.
Users could work with release branch 19.x on Open JDK 11 for 2,5 years then.
For the future, I would suggest to introduce a new Open JDK LTS version
about 3-6 months after the first release, we might want to create a new
release branch in the course of this.
What do you think?
Regards,
Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
Am 15.04.19 um 13:25 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> Hi Michael,
>
> So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
> that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
> introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>> Hi Scott, all,
>>
>> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023 [1]
>>
>> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
>> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>>
>> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
>> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
>> it is reasonable.
>>
>> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
>> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
>> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
>> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
>> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>>
>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>>
>>
>> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>>
>>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
>>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
>>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
>>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
>>> supported version as low as possible.
>>>
>>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
>>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
>>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
>>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
>>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
>>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
>>> in front of.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
>>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
>>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>>
>>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
>>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
>>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
>>>> to openjdk.
>>>>
>>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
>>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
>>>> to
>>>>> medium term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
>>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Michael,
So just to understand your suggestion clearly. Are you recommending
that we switch from oracle JDK to open JDK now (in 18 and trunk) and
introduce open jdk 11 in 2021?
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:46 AM Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott, all,
>
> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023 [1]
>
> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
> release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
>
> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
> for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
> it is reasonable.
>
> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
> release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
> with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
> that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
>
> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>
>
> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>
>
> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> > My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
> >
> > In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
> > would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
> > as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
> > they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> > 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
> > supported version as low as possible.
> >
> > For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
> > before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
> > how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
> > don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
> > for quite a while and work on other things.
> >
> > I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
> > should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
> > in front of.
> >
> > Regards
> > Scott
> >
> > On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
> >> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
> >> LTS is out which is java 11.
> >>
> >> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> >> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
> >> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
> >> to openjdk.
> >>
> >> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
> >> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
> >>
> >> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
> >> to
> >>> medium term.
> >>>
> >>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> >> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> >>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> >>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Michael, All,
I'll (somehow) give my (not opinionated) opinion in the ASF way.
I don't want to be polemical, rather to complete this discussion. The more brains on it the better.
So I'll try to gather some facts and let people have their own opinions
Inline...
Le 15/04/2019 à 10:46, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> Hi Scott, all,
>
> yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023 [1]
And weirdly JDK 11 LTS at least until September 2022 (one year less???). I guess all is in the at least :)
>
> Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
I understand concerns for releases, but for the trunk I don't see the necessity to wait. Even for R18, after OFBIZ-10757, the switch is so simple:
Index: build.gradle
===================================================================
-sourceCompatibility = '1.8'
-targetCompatibility = '1.8'
+sourceCompatibility = '11'
+targetCompatibility = '11'
It's a bit harder when you have to maintain different OFBiz versions (using different Java versions) on the same machine. You have to switch Java.
Anyway, that can be automated, as Taher suggested.
>
> Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as it is
> reasonable.
Should our behaviour on base technologies be conditioned by our users?
>
> So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
> release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after that. So
> release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
>
> What do you think?
As a gut feeling, I think it's unreasonably too conservative :) How do you test Java 11 and related changes (with plenty of time) if you don't
introduce it in at least trunk?
BTW, we have not yet released R17 (for reasonable reasons I'll not discuss here) and I agree it should stay with Java 8, which I must remind started 5
years ago, because R17 will be our next stable for years.
If we want to test Java 11 nothing better than switching to it ASAP. The more we will use and demonstrate (think demos, the spiders bots are working
for us there) it the more confident we will be (if ever we have concerns, I have not much, if not none).
In other words I don't the see need to wait for years for trunk and maybe R18.
Now some facts and reminders:
1. We know Java 8+ versions don't add much from a language perspective (thanks Mathieu for the detailed list).
The module thing is important but not from a language perspective. It's important for production, bandwidth, disk space and RAM. The rest is
almost anecdotal, isn't?
2. It's easy to switch locally, Taher give us an example, we can use something similar on Windows
3. We could use the same in demos which is the only location where we really stay or not with Open JDK 8 LTS. The rest is virtual (people do what
they want)
With all that said, the devil is in the details and it's obviously easier and more comfortable to stay with Java 8. At least as long as nothing proves
the contrary. I think about security, the module thing could prove to be useful in the futur on that aspect[1]. You never know what hackers will be up to.
So as you can see I have not a strong opinion, just that I find hard to swallow waiting 2 years more.
I'm not sure why I have this feeling (is that childish? Is the Java community childish wanting to push new things?). So on the other hand why not waiting?
@All, of course I wait your arguments :)
[1] https://www.oracle.com/corporate/features/understanding-java-9-modules.html notably:
Strong encapsulation—The packages in a module are accessible to other modules only if the module explicitly exports them. Even then, another
module cannot use those packages unless it explicitly states that it requires the other module’s capabilities. This improves platform security
because fewer classes are accessible to potential attackers. You may find that considering modularity helps you come up with cleaner, more logical
designs.
Jacques
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
>
> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>
>
> [1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
>
>
> Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
>> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>>
>> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
>> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
>> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
>> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
>> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
>> supported version as low as possible.
>>
>> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
>> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
>> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
>> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
>> for quite a while and work on other things.
>>
>> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
>> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
>> in front of.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
>>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
>>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>>
>>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
>>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
>>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
>>> to openjdk.
>>>
>>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
>>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
>>> to
>>>> medium term.
>>>>
>>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
>>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>.
Hi Scott, all,
yes, Adopt Open JDK 8 LTS is supported at least untile September 2023 [1]
Thinking about this a bit more I second to stay with Open JDK 8 LTS for
release branches 17.12, 18.12 and trunk for now.
Professional users/ companies have a very conservative update strategy
for base technologies like the JDK and we should support it as long as
it is reasonable.
So, my suggestion would be to introduce Adopt Open JDK 11 LTS with the
release branch 21.x, meaning that we change to JDK 11 right before the
release branch will be created. This gives us plenty of time to test
with Java 11 and we can introduce Java 11 features in the trunk after
that. So release branch 22.x would be the first to depend on Java 11.
What do you think?
Best regards,
Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
[1] https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
Am 15.04.19 um 00:07 schrieb Scott Gray:
> My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
>
> In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
> would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
> as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
> they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
> 9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
> supported version as low as possible.
>
> For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
> before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
> how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
> don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
> for quite a while and work on other things.
>
> I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
> should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
> in front of.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
>> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
>> LTS is out which is java 11.
>>
>> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
>> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
>> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
>> to openjdk.
>>
>> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
>> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>>
>> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
>> to
>>> medium term.
>>>
>>> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
>>>> build.gradle) in 3 days
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>>> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>>>>> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>.
My understanding was that openjdk would support java 8 until 2023.
In the past our strategy used to be that we should ensure the code base
would operate on newer java versions but keep our minimum required version
as low as possible. That effectively allows users to run whatever version
they like. So unless there are some compelling new features in java
9/10/11 that we think we must have, I'd prefer it if we kept our minimum
supported version as low as possible.
For myself, all client projects are still running java 8 (openjdk) so
before I could continue contributing to OFBiz I would have to figure out
how to run both versions on my machine with minimal disruption. Since I
don't have a huge amount of spare time, I would probably just put it off
for quite a while and work on other things.
I'm not trying to veto the idea, if the community wants to proceed then it
should but I doubt I'm the only contributor we'd be putting another hurdle
in front of.
Regards
Scott
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 09:09, Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
> commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
> LTS is out which is java 11.
>
> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
> to openjdk.
>
> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>
> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short
> to
> > medium term.
> >
> > Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
> >
> > Regards
> > Scott
> >
> > On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> > > build.gradle) in 3 days
> > >
> > > Jacques
> > >
> > > Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > > > On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > > >> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> > > >
> > > > I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> > > >
> > > > Nicolas
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by ji...@intuisoft.dev.
FWIW, I think the move to Open JDK would be wise. Oracle doesn't have
the best history of working with open source. I happened to be download
the JDK this afternoon for something else, and received the notice
below.
Jim
On 2019-04-14 17:09, Taher Alkhateeb wrote:
> Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
> commercial 2020 personal) [1 [1]]. This seems to be the case because the new
> LTS is out which is java 11.
>
> Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
> pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
> the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
> to openjdk.
>
> With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
> wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
>
> [1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short to
> medium term.
>
> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> build.gradle) in 3 days
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit : On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote: I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>
> Nicolas
Links:
------
[1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
Well, I could be mistaken but it seems EOL for java 8 is coming soon (2019
commercial 2020 personal) [1]. This seems to be the case because the new
LTS is out which is java 11.
Also this new release model from oracle seems to be annoying which is
pushing developers to adopt the openjdk instead. So I guess the reason for
the upgrade is to strike two birds with one stone: upgrade java and switch
to openjdk.
With that being said, I don't have a firm opinion on upgrading and I just
wanted to highlight things, I leave it to other folks to decide.
[1] https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html
On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 10:38 PM Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>
wrote:
> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short to
> medium term.
>
> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <ja...@les7arts.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> > build.gradle) in 3 days
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > > On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> > >> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> > >
> > > I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> > >
> > > Nicolas
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Scott,
Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com> writes:
> That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short to
> medium term.
>
> Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
I was in a similar situation a few months ago because my GNU/linux
distro was not yet providing OpenJDK 11 out of the box, but this has
been fixed in the meantime.
Can you expand on what would precisely prevent you from contributing in
the short/medium term? What would be your planning requirements in term
of upgrade to not block your contributions?
I think besides security support, upgrading to Java 11 has the benefit
of providing useful standard features available like:
- Map and Set pseudo-literals
- Modules
- Standard HTTP client
- Better type inference with the ‘val’ keyword.
- More convenient higher-order methods (like ‘Predicate#not’)
Thanks.
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxsystems.com>.
That would probably halt any further contributions from me in the short to
medium term.
Can I ask why we need to require 11 when 8 is supported through to 2023?
Regards
Scott
On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 23:37 Jacques Le Roux, <ja...@les7arts.com>
wrote:
> If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in
> build.gradle) in 3 days
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
> >
> > I did the same with 18.12, works fine
> >
> > Nicolas
> >
> >
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
If nobody disagree, I'll make the last move (ie ask for Java 11 in build.gradle) in 3 days
Jacques
Le 13/04/2019 à 12:34, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
>
> I did the same with 18.12, works fine
>
> Nicolas
>
>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Nicolas Malin <ni...@nereide.fr>.
On 13/04/2019 11:47, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
I did the same with 18.12, works fine
Nicolas
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Since I did the update of the README files at r1857381, I believe we simply need to switch R18 and trunk to Java 11 and tackle the 18 remaining warnings
For instance we need to handle https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6747 which is 12 warnings.
I just tested, without surprise the trunk HEAD works with Java 11
Jacques
Le 13/04/2019 à 00:20, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> I would suggest to make the move as soon as ready. This includes a
> final patch and an update of README
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:28 PM Jacques Le Roux
> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> This is now done. When should we switch the trunk and R18 to Java 11?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 05/03/2019 à 17:53, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>> I agree with all proposal that make sens :)
>>>
>>> Nicolas
>>>
>>> On 04/03/2019 12:31, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Le 04/03/2019 à 11:34, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>>>> I think that the simplest way to convey this message is to edit the README
>>>>> document with a link to OpenJDK rather than Oracle JDK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:22 AM Jacques Le Roux <
>>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We should then make clear to our users that they will need to switch to
>>>>>> OpenJDK if they want free security support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess most are aware, but maybe not small companies or single users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 28/02/2019 à 18:48, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>> +1 for Taher's suggestion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 28.02.19 um 12:32 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we can keep ofbiz 17.12 on java 8, and let 18.12 and trunk
>>>>>>>> switch to java 11 on openjdk. This might provide stability expected by
>>>>>>>> users as indicated by Michael.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jacques Le Roux
>>>>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> During discussions in the "Oracle Java release model changes and
>>>>>> consequences for the project" thread, we created "Upgrade OFBiz to use Java
>>>>>> JDK
>>>>>>>>> Version 11" aka OFBIZ-10757.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There we began to discuss not only if we should switch to Java 11 LTS
>>>>>> (Long Time Support), which is obviously the best current choice, but also
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> Java JDK origin we should use OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So we have few options and we should clarify what the community wants.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Options are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Do we agree to use https://adoptopenjdk.net/releases.html as
>>>>>> Java JDK origin OOTB?
>>>>>>>>> 2. Which branches should switch to Java1? Obviously the trunk and
>>>>>> R18 should. Should R17, which is not yet released, switch also?
>>>>>>>>> I hope we don't need a vote and will quickly find a consensus.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
Re: [OPTIONS] Java 11 and Java JDK origin
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
I would suggest to make the move as soon as ready. This includes a
final patch and an update of README
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:28 PM Jacques Le Roux
<ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This is now done. When should we switch the trunk and R18 to Java 11?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 05/03/2019 à 17:53, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> > I agree with all proposal that make sens :)
> >
> > Nicolas
> >
> > On 04/03/2019 12:31, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >> +1
> >>
> >> Jacques
> >>
> >> Le 04/03/2019 à 11:34, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>> I think that the simplest way to convey this message is to edit the README
> >>> document with a link to OpenJDK rather than Oracle JDK.
> >>>
> >>> Jacopo
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:22 AM Jacques Le Roux <
> >>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We should then make clear to our users that they will need to switch to
> >>>> OpenJDK if they want free security support.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess most are aware, but maybe not small companies or single users.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> Le 28/02/2019 à 18:48, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>>>> +1 for Taher's suggestion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, Michael
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 28.02.19 um 12:32 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> >>>>>> Perhaps we can keep ofbiz 17.12 on java 8, and let 18.12 and trunk
> >>>>>> switch to java 11 on openjdk. This might provide stability expected by
> >>>>>> users as indicated by Michael.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jacques Le Roux
> >>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> During discussions in the "Oracle Java release model changes and
> >>>> consequences for the project" thread, we created "Upgrade OFBiz to use Java
> >>>> JDK
> >>>>>>> Version 11" aka OFBIZ-10757.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There we began to discuss not only if we should switch to Java 11 LTS
> >>>> (Long Time Support), which is obviously the best current choice, but also
> >>>> which
> >>>>>>> Java JDK origin we should use OOTB.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So we have few options and we should clarify what the community wants.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Options are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Do we agree to use https://adoptopenjdk.net/releases.html as
> >>>> Java JDK origin OOTB?
> >>>>>>> 2. Which branches should switch to Java1? Obviously the trunk and
> >>>> R18 should. Should R17, which is not yet released, switch also?
> >>>>>>> I hope we don't need a vote and will quickly find a consensus.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>
> >>
> >