[ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
source archives a bit tedious.

Do we really need this variable?

I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.

Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/

I don't think it adds much value.

Thoughts?

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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[James Ring <sj...@jdns.org>]

Hey,

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:00 AM, sebb<se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> source archives a bit tedious.
>
> Do we really need this variable?
>
> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
>
> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
>
> I don't think it adds much value.

I agree. I think all such tags expanded by the SCM are pointless and
should be removed.

Regards,
James

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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 27/07/2009, Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr> wrote:
> sebb a écrit :
>
> > The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
>  > this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
>  > source archives a bit tedious.
>  >
>  > Do we really need this variable?
>
>
> I think it is important for users who find some source code to know how
>  old it is.

Not sure I understand why the age is important, since software does
not go stale...

Besides, the date is the last update date, which says very little
about the age of the software. The last update may just be a document
typo correction.

>
>  >
>  > I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
>
>
> If you do have access to the subversion server, yes. But most people
>  will download our source code or find them bundled in their favorite
>  application or operating system distribution without ever looking at the
>  subversion server.
>
>
>  >
>  > Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
>  >
>  > I don't think it adds much value.
>
>
> I agree.
>
>  Luc
>
>  >
>  > Thoughts?
>  >
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>  >
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RE: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Gary Gregory <GG...@seagullsoftware.com>]

I like to use $Id $ for this kind of information.

Gary

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luc Maisonobe [mailto:Luc.Maisonobe@free.fr]
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:12 AM
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?
> 
> sebb a écrit :
> > The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> > this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> > source archives a bit tedious.
> >
> > Do we really need this variable?
> 
> I think it is important for users who find some source code to know how
> old it is.
> 
> >
> > I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> 
> If you do have access to the subversion server, yes. But most people
> will download our source code or find them bundled in their favorite
> application or operating system distribution without ever looking at the
> subversion server.
> 
> >
> > Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> >
> > I don't think it adds much value.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Luc
> 
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>]

sebb a écrit :
> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> source archives a bit tedious.
> 
> Do we really need this variable?

I think it is important for users who find some source code to know how
old it is.

> 
> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.

If you do have access to the subversion server, yes. But most people
will download our source code or find them bundled in their favorite
application or operating system distribution without ever looking at the
subversion server.

> 
> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> 
> I don't think it adds much value.

I agree.

Luc

> 
> Thoughts?
> 
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>]

sebb a écrit :
> On 27/07/2009, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> The files I have looked at have $Id: in them. This contains the latest
>> revision number, the date and the committer id. From time to time I find
>> this to be informative. I would prefer this over $Date or $HeadURL.
> 
> $Id is fine, because it uses UTC rather than local time.

This would be fine for my use and I think for external users who rely
only on the file by itself and not on our subversion server.

Luc

> 
>>  Ralph
>>
>>
>>  On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:22 AM, sebb wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sebb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
>>>>> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
>>>>> source archives a bit tedious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we really need this variable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking at
>> the
>>>> repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I
>> look at
>>>> it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference to
>> me
>>>> that it is expressed in local time.
>>>>
>>> Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
>>> was changed?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't see the value of this one.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it adds much value.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>>>
>>>> dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 27/07/2009, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> The files I have looked at have $Id: in them. This contains the latest
> revision number, the date and the committer id. From time to time I find
> this to be informative. I would prefer this over $Date or $HeadURL.

$Id is fine, because it uses UTC rather than local time.

>  Ralph
>
>
>  On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:22 AM, sebb wrote:
>
>
> > On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > sebb wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> > > > this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> > > > source archives a bit tedious.
> > > >
> > > > Do we really need this variable?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking at
> the
> > > repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I
> look at
> > > it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference to
> me
> > > that it is expressed in local time.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
> > was changed?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> > > >
> > > > Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I don't see the value of this one.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > > > I don't think it adds much value.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
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> > > dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>]

The files I have looked at have $Id: in them. This contains the latest  
revision number, the date and the committer id. From time to time I  
find this to be informative. I would prefer this over $Date or $HeadURL.

Ralph

On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:22 AM, sebb wrote:

> On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> sebb wrote:
>>
>>> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
>>> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
>>> source archives a bit tedious.
>>>
>>> Do we really need this variable?
>>>
>>>
>> I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking  
>> at the
>> repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when  
>> I look at
>> it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference  
>> to me
>> that it is expressed in local time.
>
> Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
> was changed?
>
>>> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
>>>
>>> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
>>>
>>>
>> I don't see the value of this one.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>> I don't think it adds much value.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>wrote:

> sebb a écrit :
> > On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > sebb wrote:
> > >
> > >> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> > >> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> > >> source archives a bit tedious.
> > >>
> > >> Do we really need this variable?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >  I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking
> > at the
> > > repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I
> > look at
> > > it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference
> > to me
> > > that it is expressed in local time.
> >
> > Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
> > was changed?
>
> It's a way to know how old the version you use is. If I look at a file
> and find latest change in 1999, I'll look further to see if this is
> really the lastet version and if so if the component is still
> maintained. If I see 2009, I'll simply take it as is without looking
> further.


A component may have had a major overhaul in the last week, but if the file
you happen to look at has been stable for the last 10 years, you would know
next to nothing about the state of the rest of the code you have.

--
Martin Cooper


The time zone is not really important for this use.
>
> Luc
> >
> > >> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> > >>
> > >> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >  I don't see the value of this one.
> > >
> > >  Phil
> > >
> > >> I don't think it adds much value.
> > >>
> > >> Thoughts?
> > >>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>]

sebb a écrit :
> On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > sebb wrote:
> >
> >> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> >> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> >> source archives a bit tedious.
> >>
> >> Do we really need this variable?
> >>
> >>
> >  I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking
> at the
> > repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I
> look at
> > it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference
> to me
> > that it is expressed in local time.
>
> Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
> was changed?

It's a way to know how old the version you use is. If I look at a file
and find latest change in 1999, I'll look further to see if this is
really the lastet version and if so if the component is still
maintained. If I see 2009, I'll simply take it as is without looking
further.

The time zone is not really important for this use.

Luc
>
> >> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> >>
> >> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> >>
> >>
> >  I don't see the value of this one.
> >
> >  Phil
> >
> >> I don't think it adds much value.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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> >
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 27/07/2009, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sebb wrote:
>
> > The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> > this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> > source archives a bit tedious.
> >
> > Do we really need this variable?
> >
> >
>  I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking at the
> repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I look at
> it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no difference to me
> that it is expressed in local time.

Indeed, but what use is the latest update date, without knowing what
was changed?

> > I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> >
> > Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> >
> >
>  I don't see the value of this one.
>
>  Phil
>
> > I don't think it adds much value.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>]

sebb wrote:
> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> source archives a bit tedious.
>
> Do we really need this variable?
>   
I like having this info in the file, since it saves a step looking at 
the repo to tell when the file was last modified. Like Emmanuel,  when I 
look at it I am always just looking for the date, so it makes no 
difference to me that it is expressed in local time.
> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
>
> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
>   
I don't see the value of this one.

Phil
> I don't think it adds much value.
>
> Thoughts?
>   
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 27/07/2009, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> sebb a écrit :
>
>
> > As I wrote originally, it makes comparison between the SVN tag and the
> > source archive tedious.
> >
>
>  But what's the point of comparing them if they are supposed to be
> identical? For the release checking process maybe?

Exactly.

>
>  Emmanuel Bourg
>
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>]

sebb a écrit :

> As I wrote originally, it makes comparison between the SVN tag and the
> source archive tedious.

But what's the point of comparing them if they are supposed to be 
identical? For the release checking process maybe?

Emmanuel Bourg

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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 27/07/2009, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> sebb a écrit :
>
>
> > The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> > this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> > source archives a bit tedious.
> >
> > Do we really need this variable?
> >
> > I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> >
> > Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> >
> > I don't think it adds much value.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
>  Sometimes I look at the classes in SVN with my web browser, and I
> appreciate to be able to see immediately when the file was modified. Even if
> the time is not expressed in my timezone, the date is enough to tell if the
> file was modified recently, weeks, months or years ago.
>
>  What problem are you trying to solve?

As I wrote originally, it makes comparison between the SVN tag and the
source archive tedious.

>  Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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Re: [ALL] Use of SVN variable $Date$ - do we need it?

[Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>]

sebb a écrit :
> The SVN variable $Date shows the date of last update. Unfortunately
> this is expressed in local time, which makes comparing tags with
> source archives a bit tedious.
> 
> Do we really need this variable?
> 
> I would have thought that $Revision was enough to identify the file.
> 
> Similarly, $HeadURL may vary:   http[s]://svn[.eu].apache.org/
> 
> I don't think it adds much value.
> 
> Thoughts?

Sometimes I look at the classes in SVN with my web browser, and I 
appreciate to be able to see immediately when the file was modified. 
Even if the time is not expressed in my timezone, the date is enough to 
tell if the file was modified recently, weeks, months or years ago.

What problem are you trying to solve?

Emmanuel Bourg

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