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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Skip Carter <sk...@taygeta.com> on 2005/04/14 19:51:38 UTC
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
Skip
--
Dr. Everett (Skip) Carter Phone: 831-641-0645 FAX: 831-641-0647
Taygeta Scientific Inc. INTERNET: skip@taygeta.com
1340 Munras Ave., Suite 314 WWW: http://www.taygeta.com
Monterey, CA. 93940
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Simon Mieth <si...@t-online.de>.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:40:49 +0100
Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> Thanks for this. Does this installer install Hawron specifically? Or
> is it about installing and configuring Cocoon? I suspect these two are
> mutually complementary.
>
> Regards, Upayavira
>
Hi Upayavira,
the installer will install only Cocoon. You can used it from Hawron or
as single application/webstart application (independent from Hawron).
The installer could be build without hawron, with little work on the
build-file.
It can download/unpack/configure blocks/building a cocoon-release.
You can point to an existing Cocoon source installation and skip the
download/unpack parts, so you can configure the blocks and do a
rebuilding of Cocoon.
Internally there is simple an InstallManager, which handles
InstallComponents (the step-panels: welcome, download, ant ...) and can
be configured with an xml file. Adding/repalcing of components from
other should be easy.
The localization is done by property-files, so someone can add or
edit language-files.
On the website the installer available as webstart.
http://ww.mieth-xml.de/openproject/hawron/download/webstart/installer/installer.jnlp
I personally think a good block-editor is needed for building the other
step are quite simple.
If there is interest, I would move this installer out from hawron to
whatever.
Best Regards,
Simon
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Simon Mieth wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:49:33 +0200
> Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se> wrote:
>
>
>>Upayavira wrote:
>>
>>If the user can get all the way to start Jetty with our demos through
>>a simple GUI, I find it a good idea. Even if I'm perfectly able to
>>read a README and run ant or make when I evaluate some new software,
>>IMO the sooner I can start to evaluate what it does the better.
>>
>>The easier we can make using Cocoon, the better IMO. Cocoon is an
>>excelent tool for complicted stuff, my goal is to help making simple
>>things simple ;) So if you can fix the licence problems you have my +1
>>at least.
>>
>>/Daniel
>>
>>
>
> Hi all,
>
> sorry for the noise, I have written a little GUI tool for
> Offline-Processing with Cocoon, that includes now Jetty and an
> Installer (available separate and as webstart) under ASL 2.0.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawron
Hi Simon,
Thanks for this. Does this installer install Hawron specifically? Or is
it about installing and configuring Cocoon? I suspect these two are
mutually complementary.
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Simon Mieth <si...@t-online.de>.
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:49:33 +0200
Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se> wrote:
> Upayavira wrote:
>
> If the user can get all the way to start Jetty with our demos through
> a simple GUI, I find it a good idea. Even if I'm perfectly able to
> read a README and run ant or make when I evaluate some new software,
> IMO the sooner I can start to evaluate what it does the better.
>
> The easier we can make using Cocoon, the better IMO. Cocoon is an
> excelent tool for complicted stuff, my goal is to help making simple
> things simple ;) So if you can fix the licence problems you have my +1
> at least.
>
> /Daniel
>
>
Hi all,
sorry for the noise, I have written a little GUI tool for
Offline-Processing with Cocoon, that includes now Jetty and an
Installer (available separate and as webstart) under ASL 2.0.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawron
Best Regards,
Simon
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:
> Upayavira wrote:
>
>> Skip Carter wrote:
>>
>>> I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
>>> there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
>>> line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
>>> and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no way that such an installer would replace the current
>> system, merely augment it. This installer is nothing more than a
>> wrapper around our existing Ant scripts anyway. After all, many Cocoon
>> installations are on headless servers. The intention was to smooth
>> over that early stage of usage when someone is at the beginning of
>> learning Cocoon. Throwing them into having to copy and edit text files
>> when they first start IMO introduces complexity that they could well
>> do with learning a little later in their involvement with Cocoon.
>>
>> But, having said that, it doesn't seem like people are that keen on
>> the idea anyway.
>
>
> If the user can get all the way to start Jetty with our demos through a
> simple GUI, I find it a good idea. Even if I'm perfectly able to read a
> README and run ant or make when I evaluate some new software, IMO the
> sooner I can start to evaluate what it does the better.
>
> The easier we can make using Cocoon, the better IMO. Cocoon is an
> excelent tool for complicted stuff, my goal is to help making simple
> things simple ;) So if you can fix the licence problems you have my +1
> at least.
That's my thinking too. If we want to put complexity in front of people
to scare them away, we just need to put Cocoon in front of them :-)
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
Upayavira wrote:
> Skip Carter wrote:
>
>> I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
>> there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
>> line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
>> and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
>
>
> There is no way that such an installer would replace the current
> system, merely augment it. This installer is nothing more than a
> wrapper around our existing Ant scripts anyway. After all, many Cocoon
> installations are on headless servers. The intention was to smooth
> over that early stage of usage when someone is at the beginning of
> learning Cocoon. Throwing them into having to copy and edit text files
> when they first start IMO introduces complexity that they could well
> do with learning a little later in their involvement with Cocoon.
>
> But, having said that, it doesn't seem like people are that keen on
> the idea anyway.
If the user can get all the way to start Jetty with our demos through a
simple GUI, I find it a good idea. Even if I'm perfectly able to read a
README and run ant or make when I evaluate some new software, IMO the
sooner I can start to evaluate what it does the better.
The easier we can make using Cocoon, the better IMO. Cocoon is an
excelent tool for complicted stuff, my goal is to help making simple
things simple ;) So if you can fix the licence problems you have my +1
at least.
/Daniel
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Peter Hunsberger wrote:
> On 4/14/05, Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Skip Carter wrote:
>>
>>>I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
>>>there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
>>>line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
>>>and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
>>
>>There is no way that such an installer would replace the current system,
>>merely augment it. This installer is nothing more than a wrapper around
>>our existing Ant scripts anyway. After all, many Cocoon installations
>>are on headless servers. The intention was to smooth over that early
>>stage of usage when someone is at the beginning of learning Cocoon.
>>Throwing them into having to copy and edit text files when they first
>>start IMO introduces complexity that they could well do with learning a
>>little later in their involvement with Cocoon.
>>
>>But, having said that, it doesn't seem like people are that keen on the
>>idea anyway.
>
>
> I think without the license problems people might be in favour or
> least neutral.
>
> Perhaps you could include the config script with Cocoon with a pointer
> to the Source Forge project? Alternately, maybe you could donate the
> config file to the Source Forge project and include something in the
> Cocoon docs...
Without a fix to the licencing problems, I ain't taking this any
further. The author is willing to relicense, it is just a question of
how embedded his other jars are into his code.
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Peter Hunsberger <pe...@gmail.com>.
On 4/14/05, Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk> wrote:
> Skip Carter wrote:
> > I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
> > there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
> > line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
> > and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
>
> There is no way that such an installer would replace the current system,
> merely augment it. This installer is nothing more than a wrapper around
> our existing Ant scripts anyway. After all, many Cocoon installations
> are on headless servers. The intention was to smooth over that early
> stage of usage when someone is at the beginning of learning Cocoon.
> Throwing them into having to copy and edit text files when they first
> start IMO introduces complexity that they could well do with learning a
> little later in their involvement with Cocoon.
>
> But, having said that, it doesn't seem like people are that keen on the
> idea anyway.
I think without the license problems people might be in favour or
least neutral.
Perhaps you could include the config script with Cocoon with a pointer
to the Source Forge project? Alternately, maybe you could donate the
config file to the Source Forge project and include something in the
Cocoon docs...
--
Peter Hunsberger
Re: Do we want a GUI installer?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Skip Carter wrote:
> I'd rather not see one. At least if one is developed,
> there needs remain to be a way to install from the command
> line. ALL of my cocoon installations are on headless systems,
> and some of them are remote, so a GUI is not really very practical.
There is no way that such an installer would replace the current system,
merely augment it. This installer is nothing more than a wrapper around
our existing Ant scripts anyway. After all, many Cocoon installations
are on headless servers. The intention was to smooth over that early
stage of usage when someone is at the beginning of learning Cocoon.
Throwing them into having to copy and edit text files when they first
start IMO introduces complexity that they could well do with learning a
little later in their involvement with Cocoon.
But, having said that, it doesn't seem like people are that keen on the
idea anyway.
Regrards, Upayavira