So...when again is the code due?

[ru...@us.ibm.com]

OK, so this a blantant (and probably futile) attempt to change the topic of
discussion.

asp (was: Re: A Volunteer)

[James Todd <ja...@eng.sun.com>]

this is what is on my mind at the moment ...

<ramblingThoughtsAlert>

	i'm sure there are a boat load of asp folks who
	would be willing to at least give jsp/servlets
	a go if they could "test the waters" with some
	guidance and/or tool, be it a one time converter
	(content and/or components) or a dynamic bridge
	that may not necessarily be optimal regarding
	performance, in order to gain confidence that their
	time and money spent on tooling some core business
	logic is not lost. this is a much easier sell
	then offering the quite valid response of "you may
	end up re-writing some/most/all of your existing app."

</ramblingThoughtsAlert>

in order to attack such a problem one would pretty much
need a solid grounding in three technlogies (asp, jsp/servlet)
and a good architectual factoring sense.

i haven't done asp but i have done interpretted cgi and
i have to believe that at least some percentage if not
all of such as task is doable.

hope this helps,

- james

Dave Cramer wrote:
> 
> Well I have done some asp, which is why I am looking to *any* other
> technology.
> 
> What did you have in mind ?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Todd <ja...@eng.sun.com>
> To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:15 PM
> Subject: Re: A Volunteer
> 
> >
> > cool. willingness and sincerity rate pretty highly
> > in my book.
> >
> > having perl folks at the table is a big win in moving
> > server-side web technologies forward as i see it. anything
> > we can do to make this solution as appealing as perl (and
> > others) if not more is an attainable goal as i see it.
> > getting server-side java to rock on linux is compelling
> > as well.
> >
> > question: are there any asp hackers lurking about? if so,
> > i'm curious as to if it is viewed viable to consider as
> > a project an "asp to jsp" conversion tool, overlay asp
> > content/components dynamically, etc. any thoughts?
> >
> > thx much,
> >
> > - james
> >
> >
> > olliecat wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been watching the postings to this list over the past couple of
> > > weeks and have been itching to get involved but am concerned about the
> > > amount of time and level of skill I will be able to provide.  I thought
> > > the best way to start would be to toss out my background and let
> > > everybody judge whether or not I could make a viable contribution.
> > >
> > > By profession I write software for an insurance company on the
> > > electronic commerce side of the house.  I have written a lot of perl cgi
> > > over the past couple of years and more recently have been writing in C.
> > > I've been doing Java off and on the last 9 months, with the last six
> > > being the most instructive.  My company uses a security product written
> > > in Java and I have written a couple of extension classes to hook our own
> > > customizations into that product.  My project in 1998 was as directory
> > > services architect using LDAP so I have been toying with JNDI as time
> > > permits.
> > >
> > > I am comfortable installing and configuring Apache, Stronghold, and NES
> > > web servers.  In fact all of my cgi has been written for these three
> > > platforms.  I most recently upgraded the Apache install on my Sparc to
> > > 1.3.6 so I could try out its servlet support and get up to speed there.
> > > I am a *big* unix head since being turned onto Solaris and more recently
> > > Linux (Redhat 6.0).  I learn quick and love exploring new technologies.
> > > I am a *big* fan of Apache, have great respect for anything Open Source,
> > > and this project with its contributors looks very exciting.
> > >
> > > I attend school at night part time which accounts for my concern about
> > > my level of contribution.  I guess my goal would be to contribute as
> > > much as I can maybe on small pieces or pair up with another person and
> > > work up from there.  If your eyes aren't glazed over by now at my level
> > > of verbosity you may have noticed I like to write, so Gary Lawrence
> > > Murphy there might be hope for me there.  Either way it looks like I'll
> > > be able to walk away with a great experience working with a lot of
> > > talented individuals.
> > >
> > > So there's the bio.  If you think I can provide some sort of valid input
> > > so be it, otherwise good luck!
> > >
> > > Tod Thomas
> > > olliecat@bellatlantic.net
> > >
> > > BTW I'm planning on developing using blackdown.org's jdk1.2 under Redhat
> > > 6.0.  I've got the pre-v2 installed now.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org

Re: A Volunteer

[Dave Cramer <Da...@micro-automation.net>]

Well I have done some asp, which is why I am looking to *any* other
technology.

What did you have in mind ?


----- Original Message -----
From: James Todd <ja...@eng.sun.com>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: A Volunteer


>
> cool. willingness and sincerity rate pretty highly
> in my book.
>
> having perl folks at the table is a big win in moving
> server-side web technologies forward as i see it. anything
> we can do to make this solution as appealing as perl (and
> others) if not more is an attainable goal as i see it.
> getting server-side java to rock on linux is compelling
> as well.
>
> question: are there any asp hackers lurking about? if so,
> i'm curious as to if it is viewed viable to consider as
> a project an "asp to jsp" conversion tool, overlay asp
> content/components dynamically, etc. any thoughts?
>
> thx much,
>
> - james
>
>
> olliecat wrote:
> >
> > I have been watching the postings to this list over the past couple of
> > weeks and have been itching to get involved but am concerned about the
> > amount of time and level of skill I will be able to provide.  I thought
> > the best way to start would be to toss out my background and let
> > everybody judge whether or not I could make a viable contribution.
> >
> > By profession I write software for an insurance company on the
> > electronic commerce side of the house.  I have written a lot of perl cgi
> > over the past couple of years and more recently have been writing in C.
> > I've been doing Java off and on the last 9 months, with the last six
> > being the most instructive.  My company uses a security product written
> > in Java and I have written a couple of extension classes to hook our own
> > customizations into that product.  My project in 1998 was as directory
> > services architect using LDAP so I have been toying with JNDI as time
> > permits.
> >
> > I am comfortable installing and configuring Apache, Stronghold, and NES
> > web servers.  In fact all of my cgi has been written for these three
> > platforms.  I most recently upgraded the Apache install on my Sparc to
> > 1.3.6 so I could try out its servlet support and get up to speed there.
> > I am a *big* unix head since being turned onto Solaris and more recently
> > Linux (Redhat 6.0).  I learn quick and love exploring new technologies.
> > I am a *big* fan of Apache, have great respect for anything Open Source,
> > and this project with its contributors looks very exciting.
> >
> > I attend school at night part time which accounts for my concern about
> > my level of contribution.  I guess my goal would be to contribute as
> > much as I can maybe on small pieces or pair up with another person and
> > work up from there.  If your eyes aren't glazed over by now at my level
> > of verbosity you may have noticed I like to write, so Gary Lawrence
> > Murphy there might be hope for me there.  Either way it looks like I'll
> > be able to walk away with a great experience working with a lot of
> > talented individuals.
> >
> > So there's the bio.  If you think I can provide some sort of valid input
> > so be it, otherwise good luck!
> >
> > Tod Thomas
> > olliecat@bellatlantic.net
> >
> > BTW I'm planning on developing using blackdown.org's jdk1.2 under Redhat
> > 6.0.  I've got the pre-v2 installed now.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>

RE: A Volunteer

[Channing Walton <cw...@cre.canon.co.uk>]

Hi,
thanks for your reply - v. interesting. (Some questions below)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ix@uruk-hai.maz.org [mailto:ix@uruk-hai.maz.org]On Behalf Of brian
> moseley
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 11:15 AM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: A Volunteer
>
>
> Channing Walton wrote:
>
> > I am interested to hear people's thoughts/comments regarding where
> > servlets/JSP wins over Perl CGI and vice versa (assume mod_perl with
> > Apache).
>


>  - using java gives you all the benefits of that language,
> and using perl gives you all the benefits of that language.
> this is most certainly not a tongue in cheek answer.

:-)

>
>  - using mod_perl, you get to take advantage of access to
> many parts of the apache api that dont have anything at all
> to do with or are tangentially related to request handling.
> example: i use apache configuration directives to configure
> my web applications. i also like to set up custom perl
> handlers for many of the various phases of the request
> cycle, so that i can perform mandatory tasks like
> authentication and authorization well up front, and abort if
> those tasks fail without going through large amounts of
> complex processing. it's also sometimes handy to use perl as
> the configuration language inside httpd.conf itself, via
> <Perl> sections.

Are there any plans to do the same with Java ? (Or perhaps it isn't
appropriate ?)


> possibly this response wasnt of terribly much help to you.

Actually, its one of the first balanced responses I've had on the subject so
it was very helpful.

I have heard some arguments indicating that Java is more suitable for
systems which need to be secure, robust and scale - is that a fair comment ?

Chang

Re: A Volunteer

[brian moseley <ix...@cp.net>]

Channing Walton wrote:

> I am interested to hear people's thoughts/comments regarding where
> servlets/JSP wins over Perl CGI and vice versa (assume mod_perl with
> Apache).

 - the apis used at request time are at a fairly similar
level of abstraction. you examine a request, do stuff, and
send a response. no big deal.

 - most servlet implementations run in an external jvm,
whereas mod_perl glues a perl interpreter into each apache
process. its up to you to decide in the context of your
project which architecture you prefer.

 - using java gives you all the benefits of that language,
and using perl gives you all the benefits of that language.
this is most certainly not a tongue in cheek answer.

 - using mod_perl, you get to take advantage of access to
many parts of the apache api that dont have anything at all
to do with or are tangentially related to request handling.
example: i use apache configuration directives to configure
my web applications. i also like to set up custom perl
handlers for many of the various phases of the request
cycle, so that i can perform mandatory tasks like
authentication and authorization well up front, and abort if
those tasks fail without going through large amounts of
complex processing. it's also sometimes handy to use perl as
the configuration language inside httpd.conf itself, via
<Perl> sections.

i write perl code a lot faster than i write java code. so at
work perl usually wins out. especially cos we do have things
like mason, embperl and platypus that provide code embedding
and/or higher level application services (authentication,
session management, database access, etc).

possibly this response wasnt of terribly much help to you.
suffice it to say that i believe there's not a whole lot of
difference between the general technologies, and you should
use whichever one is more comfortable and suits you
aesthetically. i like them both.

RE: A Volunteer

[Channing Walton <cw...@cre.canon.co.uk>]

Hi all,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Todd [mailto:james.todd@eng.sun.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 3:15 AM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: A Volunteer
>
> having perl folks at the table is a big win in moving
> server-side web technologies forward as i see it.

OK this brings up a question I have had for quite a while. (The following
might well start a flame-war but I ask it out of a genuine need for a
balanced discussion rather than religious belief :-)

I am interested to hear people's thoughts/comments regarding where
servlets/JSP wins over Perl CGI and vice versa (assume mod_perl with
Apache). I have had a few years experience with Java and none with Perl,
however those around me are in the reverse situation and so a balanced
comparison isn't possible. I also have had no luck in funding a good
discussion on this topic.

regards,

Channing

Re: A Volunteer

[James Todd <ja...@eng.sun.com>]

cool. willingness and sincerity rate pretty highly
in my book.

having perl folks at the table is a big win in moving
server-side web technologies forward as i see it. anything
we can do to make this solution as appealing as perl (and
others) if not more is an attainable goal as i see it.
getting server-side java to rock on linux is compelling
as well.

question: are there any asp hackers lurking about? if so,
i'm curious as to if it is viewed viable to consider as
a project an "asp to jsp" conversion tool, overlay asp
content/components dynamically, etc. any thoughts?

thx much,

- james


olliecat wrote:
> 
> I have been watching the postings to this list over the past couple of
> weeks and have been itching to get involved but am concerned about the
> amount of time and level of skill I will be able to provide.  I thought
> the best way to start would be to toss out my background and let
> everybody judge whether or not I could make a viable contribution.
> 
> By profession I write software for an insurance company on the
> electronic commerce side of the house.  I have written a lot of perl cgi
> over the past couple of years and more recently have been writing in C.
> I've been doing Java off and on the last 9 months, with the last six
> being the most instructive.  My company uses a security product written
> in Java and I have written a couple of extension classes to hook our own
> customizations into that product.  My project in 1998 was as directory
> services architect using LDAP so I have been toying with JNDI as time
> permits.
> 
> I am comfortable installing and configuring Apache, Stronghold, and NES
> web servers.  In fact all of my cgi has been written for these three
> platforms.  I most recently upgraded the Apache install on my Sparc to
> 1.3.6 so I could try out its servlet support and get up to speed there.
> I am a *big* unix head since being turned onto Solaris and more recently
> Linux (Redhat 6.0).  I learn quick and love exploring new technologies.
> I am a *big* fan of Apache, have great respect for anything Open Source,
> and this project with its contributors looks very exciting.
> 
> I attend school at night part time which accounts for my concern about
> my level of contribution.  I guess my goal would be to contribute as
> much as I can maybe on small pieces or pair up with another person and
> work up from there.  If your eyes aren't glazed over by now at my level
> of verbosity you may have noticed I like to write, so Gary Lawrence
> Murphy there might be hope for me there.  Either way it looks like I'll
> be able to walk away with a great experience working with a lot of
> talented individuals.
> 
> So there's the bio.  If you think I can provide some sort of valid input
> so be it, otherwise good luck!
> 
> Tod Thomas
> olliecat@bellatlantic.net
> 
> BTW I'm planning on developing using blackdown.org's jdk1.2 under Redhat
> 6.0.  I've got the pre-v2 installed now.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org

A Volunteer

[olliecat <ol...@bellatlantic.net>]

I have been watching the postings to this list over the past couple of
weeks and have been itching to get involved but am concerned about the
amount of time and level of skill I will be able to provide.  I thought
the best way to start would be to toss out my background and let
everybody judge whether or not I could make a viable contribution.

By profession I write software for an insurance company on the
electronic commerce side of the house.  I have written a lot of perl cgi
over the past couple of years and more recently have been writing in C. 
I've been doing Java off and on the last 9 months, with the last six
being the most instructive.  My company uses a security product written
in Java and I have written a couple of extension classes to hook our own
customizations into that product.  My project in 1998 was as directory
services architect using LDAP so I have been toying with JNDI as time
permits.

I am comfortable installing and configuring Apache, Stronghold, and NES
web servers.  In fact all of my cgi has been written for these three
platforms.  I most recently upgraded the Apache install on my Sparc to
1.3.6 so I could try out its servlet support and get up to speed there. 
I am a *big* unix head since being turned onto Solaris and more recently
Linux (Redhat 6.0).  I learn quick and love exploring new technologies. 
I am a *big* fan of Apache, have great respect for anything Open Source,
and this project with its contributors looks very exciting.

I attend school at night part time which accounts for my concern about
my level of contribution.  I guess my goal would be to contribute as
much as I can maybe on small pieces or pair up with another person and
work up from there.  If your eyes aren't glazed over by now at my level
of verbosity you may have noticed I like to write, so Gary Lawrence
Murphy there might be hope for me there.  Either way it looks like I'll
be able to walk away with a great experience working with a lot of
talented individuals.

So there's the bio.  If you think I can provide some sort of valid input
so be it, otherwise good luck!

Tod Thomas
olliecat@bellatlantic.net

BTW I'm planning on developing using blackdown.org's jdk1.2 under Redhat
6.0.  I've got the pre-v2 installed now.