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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com> on 2018/06/24 04:38:21 UTC
Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Hi all!
In the heat of our RC-s, please do not forget that we have a release
criteria to fulfill:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+9.0+Release+Criteria
We are pretty got with the BLOCKERS, but we have 21 CRITICAL bugs we
need to address.
Some of these issues are related to codedrop 2, some really need to be
checked if they are really critical.
I've tried my best so far but we need more involvement here, please!
The Release Criteria says:
Only the appropriate NetCAT tribe leader responsible for the affected
functionality can label a bug with WAIVER tag after reaching consensus
within his/her tribe.
Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Could we refine/rewrite the criteria then?
Also as far as remember we had a bug/issue classifying table somewhere
on what is blocker, critical major, etc.
BTW, Thanks for your attention the number of critical issues are down to
16! Good progress!
On 06/24/2018 12:56 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> I think what we're trying to do is merge the NetCAT concept into the Apache
> Way of doing things.
>
> The way I imagine that working is that the PPMC vote can only begin once
> NetCAT gives its 'go'.
>
> I.e., NetCAT gives us a dedicated testing community, which is a plus.
>
> However, I agree, only blockers should be blockers, not anything else,
> e.g., critical bugs are not blockers.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 9:38 PM, Emilian Bold <
> emilian.bold@protonmail.ch.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I don't mind if we delay the release, but I have some remarks regarding
>> these new (to me) criteria
>>
>> I guess they are probably a copy-paste of the NetCAT criteria we had under
>> Sun / Oracle?
>>
>> The only voted policy we have under Apache is written here:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Policies
>>
>> If we are to follow the NetCAT criteria for our releases, it would be nice
>> to have a discussion about this and a vote. (Maybe we had a discussion but
>> I don't remember. We certainly didn't have a vote).
>>
>> The conditions seem to make sense, overall.
>>
>> Still, I don't like the separation of a 'NetCAT team'; there is no
>> 'development team'. (Secondarily, I also don't like that there's a
>> separated netcat@ mailing list to split the discussion).
>>
>> Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called 'tribes'
>> and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that 'can label a
>> bug with WAIVER tag'.
>>
>> This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a committer or
>> not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after reaching consensus within
>> his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's a vote going on, we cannot
>> restrict voting to a subgroup under Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to
>> vote.
>>
>> The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow
>> non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but it's
>> also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes point toward
>> something bad, we can decide to take that into account, but it's not
>> automatic.
>>
>> In conclusion:
>>
>> 1. I don't consider these release criteria something binding as they are
>> not voted policy.
>> 2. As such, we should perhaps discuss it and have a vote about it.
>> 3. We should merge netcat@ into dev@ as we are the same community.
>> 4. We should clarify the notion of NetCAT tribe and tribe leader with
>> regard to the Apache terminology
>>
>> --emi
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>
>> On 24 June 2018 7:38 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> In the heat of our RC-s, please do not forget that we have a release
>>>
>>> criteria to fulfill:
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
>> NetBeans+9.0+Release+Criteria
>>> We are pretty got with the BLOCKERS, but we have 21 CRITICAL bugs we
>>>
>>> need to address.
>>>
>>> Some of these issues are related to codedrop 2, some really need to be
>>>
>>> checked if they are really critical.
>>>
>>> I've tried my best so far but we need more involvement here, please!
>>>
>>> The Release Criteria says:
>>>
>>> Only the appropriate NetCAT tribe leader responsible for the affected
>>>
>>> functionality can label a bug with WAIVER tag after reaching consensus
>>>
>>> within his/her tribe.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
I think what we're trying to do is merge the NetCAT concept into the Apache
Way of doing things.
The way I imagine that working is that the PPMC vote can only begin once
NetCAT gives its 'go'.
I.e., NetCAT gives us a dedicated testing community, which is a plus.
However, I agree, only blockers should be blockers, not anything else,
e.g., critical bugs are not blockers.
Gj
On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 9:38 PM, Emilian Bold <
emilian.bold@protonmail.ch.invalid> wrote:
> I don't mind if we delay the release, but I have some remarks regarding
> these new (to me) criteria
>
> I guess they are probably a copy-paste of the NetCAT criteria we had under
> Sun / Oracle?
>
> The only voted policy we have under Apache is written here:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Policies
>
> If we are to follow the NetCAT criteria for our releases, it would be nice
> to have a discussion about this and a vote. (Maybe we had a discussion but
> I don't remember. We certainly didn't have a vote).
>
> The conditions seem to make sense, overall.
>
> Still, I don't like the separation of a 'NetCAT team'; there is no
> 'development team'. (Secondarily, I also don't like that there's a
> separated netcat@ mailing list to split the discussion).
>
> Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called 'tribes'
> and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that 'can label a
> bug with WAIVER tag'.
>
> This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a committer or
> not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after reaching consensus within
> his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's a vote going on, we cannot
> restrict voting to a subgroup under Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to
> vote.
>
> The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow
> non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but it's
> also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes point toward
> something bad, we can decide to take that into account, but it's not
> automatic.
>
> In conclusion:
>
> 1. I don't consider these release criteria something binding as they are
> not voted policy.
> 2. As such, we should perhaps discuss it and have a vote about it.
> 3. We should merge netcat@ into dev@ as we are the same community.
> 4. We should clarify the notion of NetCAT tribe and tribe leader with
> regard to the Apache terminology
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 24 June 2018 7:38 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all!
> >
> > In the heat of our RC-s, please do not forget that we have a release
> >
> > criteria to fulfill:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
> NetBeans+9.0+Release+Criteria
> >
> > We are pretty got with the BLOCKERS, but we have 21 CRITICAL bugs we
> >
> > need to address.
> >
> > Some of these issues are related to codedrop 2, some really need to be
> >
> > checked if they are really critical.
> >
> > I've tried my best so far but we need more involvement here, please!
> >
> > The Release Criteria says:
> >
> > Only the appropriate NetCAT tribe leader responsible for the affected
> >
> > functionality can label a bug with WAIVER tag after reaching consensus
> >
> > within his/her tribe.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by John Kostaras <jk...@gmail.com>.
In the mean time, I went through the 16 critical issues and there is at
least one comment to them by someone who has review them and either could
not reproduce them or couldn't do anything about them because e.g. it was a
problem with a plugin. So, I 'm not sure how we could proceed. I tried a
couple of them and could not reproduce them neither with the latest night
build.
It would help a lot if the tribe leader could delegate the work, like s/he
did for testing where I found it really useful. We could keep it as our
internal process, while at the same time we abide with how apache works.
Regarding the blockers and critical issues then, who is going to
close/raise a waiver then? The issuer? The tribe leader?
On Mon, 25 Jun 2018 at 19:49, Emilian Bold
<em...@protonmail.ch.invalid> wrote:
> Very nicely put Glenn!
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 25 June 2018 5:45 PM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> > On 06/24/2018 02:38 PM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> >
> > > Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called
> > >
> > > 'tribes' and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that
> > >
> > > 'can label a bug with WAIVER tag'.
> > >
> > > This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a
> > >
> > > committer or not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after
> > >
> > > reaching consensus within his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's
> > >
> > > a vote going on, we cannot restrict voting to a subgroup under
> > >
> > > Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to vote.
> >
> > In practice, it is (or should be) a discussion within the tribe to see
> >
> > which issues should be proposed as blockers. Tribe leaders are mainly
> >
> > responsible for dividing up the work of going through the test specs and
> >
> > making sure tribe members are on schedule.
> >
> > > The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow
> > >
> > > non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but
> > >
> > > it's also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes
> > >
> > > point toward something bad, we can decide to take that into account,
> > >
> > > but it's not automatic.
> >
> > I agree with what you're saying here; we're in a new world now. The PMC
> >
> > is the body that must make decisions about whether to release; NetCAT
> >
> > should be seen as an advisory body. Just as in the past, when NetCAT
> >
> > reports a bug, committers may clarify or override the severity.
> >
> > As a long-time NetCAT team member, I'm certainly not trying to minimize
> >
> > its importance. If NetBeans users feel strongly enough to participate in
> >
> > NetCAT (it's a lot of work to go through those test specs!) and make a
> >
> > point about an issue, it should be taken very seriously, and the role of
> >
> > NetCAT in the release process should be clearly defined.
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> >
> > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.
Very nicely put Glenn!
--emi
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 25 June 2018 5:45 PM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com.INVALID> wrote:
> On 06/24/2018 02:38 PM, Emilian Bold wrote:
>
> > Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called
> >
> > 'tribes' and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that
> >
> > 'can label a bug with WAIVER tag'.
> >
> > This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a
> >
> > committer or not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after
> >
> > reaching consensus within his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's
> >
> > a vote going on, we cannot restrict voting to a subgroup under
> >
> > Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to vote.
>
> In practice, it is (or should be) a discussion within the tribe to see
>
> which issues should be proposed as blockers. Tribe leaders are mainly
>
> responsible for dividing up the work of going through the test specs and
>
> making sure tribe members are on schedule.
>
> > The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow
> >
> > non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but
> >
> > it's also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes
> >
> > point toward something bad, we can decide to take that into account,
> >
> > but it's not automatic.
>
> I agree with what you're saying here; we're in a new world now. The PMC
>
> is the body that must make decisions about whether to release; NetCAT
>
> should be seen as an advisory body. Just as in the past, when NetCAT
>
> reports a bug, committers may clarify or override the severity.
>
> As a long-time NetCAT team member, I'm certainly not trying to minimize
>
> its importance. If NetBeans users feel strongly enough to participate in
>
> NetCAT (it's a lot of work to go through those test specs!) and make a
>
> point about an issue, it should be taken very seriously, and the role of
>
> NetCAT in the release process should be clearly defined.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
>
> "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com.INVALID>.
On 06/24/2018 02:38 PM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called
> 'tribes' and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that
> 'can label a bug with WAIVER tag'.
>
> This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a
> committer or not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after
> reaching consensus within his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's
> a vote going on, we cannot restrict voting to a subgroup under
> Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to vote.
In practice, it is (or should be) a discussion within the tribe to see
which issues should be *proposed* as blockers. Tribe leaders are mainly
responsible for dividing up the work of going through the test specs and
making sure tribe members are on schedule.
> The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow
> non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but
> it's also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes
> point toward something bad, we can decide to take that into account,
> but it's not automatic.
I agree with what you're saying here; we're in a new world now. The PMC
is the body that must make decisions about whether to release; NetCAT
should be seen as an advisory body. Just as in the past, when NetCAT
reports a bug, committers may clarify or override the severity.
As a long-time NetCAT team member, I'm certainly not trying to minimize
its importance. If NetBeans users feel strongly enough to participate in
NetCAT (it's a lot of work to go through those test specs!) and make a
point about an issue, it should be taken very seriously, and the role of
NetCAT in the release process should be clearly defined.
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Release Criteria: WAIVER bugs
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.
I don't mind if we delay the release, but I have some remarks regarding these new (to me) criteria
I guess they are probably a copy-paste of the NetCAT criteria we had under Sun / Oracle?
The only voted policy we have under Apache is written here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Policies
If we are to follow the NetCAT criteria for our releases, it would be nice to have a discussion about this and a vote. (Maybe we had a discussion but I don't remember. We certainly didn't have a vote).
The conditions seem to make sense, overall.
Still, I don't like the separation of a 'NetCAT team'; there is no 'development team'. (Secondarily, I also don't like that there's a separated netcat@ mailing list to split the discussion).
Also, the NetCAT team seems to be split into sub-groups called 'tribes' and they have a 'leader' which seems to be the only one that 'can label a bug with WAIVER tag'.
This seems rather against the Apache way, as you either are a committer or not (or part of the PMC or not). Although 'after reaching consensus within his/her tribe' makes it sound like there's a vote going on, we cannot restrict voting to a subgroup under Apache, afaik; everybody is allowed to vote.
The 'Community Acceptance survey' is interesting as it seems to allow non-binding votes to block a release. This sounds interesting, but it's also not the Apache way. Of course, if many non-binding votes point toward something bad, we can decide to take that into account, but it's not automatic.
In conclusion:
1. I don't consider these release criteria something binding as they are not voted policy.
2. As such, we should perhaps discuss it and have a vote about it.
3. We should merge netcat@ into dev@ as we are the same community.
4. We should clarify the notion of NetCAT tribe and tribe leader with regard to the Apache terminology
--emi
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 24 June 2018 7:38 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> In the heat of our RC-s, please do not forget that we have a release
>
> criteria to fulfill:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+9.0+Release+Criteria
>
> We are pretty got with the BLOCKERS, but we have 21 CRITICAL bugs we
>
> need to address.
>
> Some of these issues are related to codedrop 2, some really need to be
>
> checked if they are really critical.
>
> I've tried my best so far but we need more involvement here, please!
>
> The Release Criteria says:
>
> Only the appropriate NetCAT tribe leader responsible for the affected
>
> functionality can label a bug with WAIVER tag after reaching consensus
>
> within his/her tribe.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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