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Posted to modperl-cvs@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2001/10/07 07:29:14 UTC
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
[CC'ing modperl-site where this discussion really belongs to]
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> This site is hosted on an apache.org box. Any chance we could host it
> at perl.org and built a pretty-looking Mason site for the content
> that's already there? Then we could open it up with CVS for others to
> commit changes and updates to.
>
> I'm sick of the website making modperl look like the bastard stepchild
> of the Apache project.
Hi Nat,
It's not a bastard stepchild of the Apache project. It's an ASF project.
The fact that nobody handles the website has nothing to do with ASF.
We have had two new designs worked out long time ago, but one has been
picked by take23.org and the other wasn't applied. (hi brian)
Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a hand
to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to this person.
What I want to say, is that it's not a point of where to host the site.
The point is that we need someone to do the job of re-doing and making
it easy to maintain the site, to keep it nice.
That's said I don't see any reason to use Mason or other dynamic tools,
since 99,9% of the content is static. I'd think more about Template
Toolkit's ttpage tool, which produce a static version of the site, based
on dynamic pages.
One important point of keeping perl.apache.org under apache.org is that
at some point, mirrors will work again, and that will be very handy to
have the site under apache.org.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
I forgot to link to the source, which is the most important so you can
see how components work:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite.tgz
Stas Bekman wrote:
> OK, I've started playing with template toolkit docs build system. This
> what I've got from using ttree script. This is very incomplete as I
> intend to try to adopt the docs build system used by TT.
>
>
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/
>
> The cool thing is that it uses a Splash library, where you can define
> and use nice widgets, change colors, etc. See
> http://www.template-toolkit.org/splash/
>
> TT is very extensible and scalable, so I hope it'll be a good choice.
> I'm looking at its POD2 (HTML|PS|PDF) builder...
>
> Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
> you think.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
> http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
> mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
> http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
> >
> > Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
> > mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able
to
> > add links, examples, news etc.
>
>
> that would be a very good thing to have! The problem is providing the
required setup on apache.org.
>
For the Embperl site I have thought about setting up the dynamic part on our
own server (simply because it's esaier for me to adminitrate, because I am
root there). If the components are usefull for the modperl site, I am sure
we will find a way to let them run on perl.apache.org and move them over. I
case we can't, it should be possible to do the hosting for the dynamic part
of the modperl site at our server.
>
> As you have seen I'm pretty much done. Now doing
>
> code refactoring to make more extendable.
>
I am looking forward to see it and check out where I can plug in
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
> >
> > Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
> > mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able
to
> > add links, examples, news etc.
>
>
> that would be a very good thing to have! The problem is providing the
required setup on apache.org.
>
For the Embperl site I have thought about setting up the dynamic part on our
own server (simply because it's esaier for me to adminitrate, because I am
root there). If the components are usefull for the modperl site, I am sure
we will find a way to let them run on perl.apache.org and move them over. I
case we can't, it should be possible to do the hosting for the dynamic part
of the modperl site at our server.
>
> As you have seen I'm pretty much done. Now doing
>
> code refactoring to make more extendable.
>
I am looking forward to see it and check out where I can plug in
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
>>Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
>>embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
>>dynamically, resource wise of course.
>>
>>
>
> Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
> mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able to
> add links, examples, news etc.
that would be a very good thing to have! The problem is providing the required setup on apache.org.
>>BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl?
>>
>
> Everything is in POD, because it really the best and easiest way to write it
> down
fantastic!
>> may be it can
>>just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
>>roof.
>>
>>
>
> I would be happy if we keep it under the same roof. I don't like to reinvent
> the wheel, but I like to have the possibility to make my own design and use
> Embperl for rendering, instead of TT. Hopefully there are also some aspects
> in things that I programm that will be usefull for the modperl site.
That's sounds cool. I'm looking forward for other extensions to chime in.
As you have seen I'm pretty much done. Now doing
code refactoring to make more extendable.
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
>>Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
>>embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
>>dynamically, resource wise of course.
>>
>>
>
> Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
> mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able to
> add links, examples, news etc.
that would be a very good thing to have! The problem is providing the required setup on apache.org.
>>BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl?
>>
>
> Everything is in POD, because it really the best and easiest way to write it
> down
fantastic!
>> may be it can
>>just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
>>roof.
>>
>>
>
> I would be happy if we keep it under the same roof. I don't like to reinvent
> the wheel, but I like to have the possibility to make my own design and use
> Embperl for rendering, instead of TT. Hopefully there are also some aspects
> in things that I programm that will be usefull for the modperl site.
That's sounds cool. I'm looking forward for other extensions to chime in.
As you have seen I'm pretty much done. Now doing
code refactoring to make more extendable.
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
>
> Well, the code is quite crude yet, and it's hard to modularize before
> you know what to plan for, but yes the rendering engine is a separate
> thing. So after generalizing it and making it pluggable it should be
> possible to use other rendering modules.
>
I will take a look at it when you release it
> Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
> embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
> dynamically, resource wise of course.
>
Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able to
add links, examples, news etc.
> BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl?
Everything is in POD, because it really the best and easiest way to write it
down
> may be it can
> just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
> roof.
>
I would be happy if we keep it under the same roof. I don't like to reinvent
the wheel, but I like to have the possibility to make my own design and use
Embperl for rendering, instead of TT. Hopefully there are also some aspects
in things that I programm that will be usefull for the modperl site.
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
>
> Well, the code is quite crude yet, and it's hard to modularize before
> you know what to plan for, but yes the rendering engine is a separate
> thing. So after generalizing it and making it pluggable it should be
> possible to use other rendering modules.
>
I will take a look at it when you release it
> Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
> embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
> dynamically, resource wise of course.
>
Most things will be static and pregenerated, like you plan it for the
mod_perl site. There maybe a small dynamic part, where people are able to
add links, examples, news etc.
> BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl?
Everything is in POD, because it really the best and easiest way to write it
down
> may be it can
> just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
> roof.
>
I would be happy if we keep it under the same roof. I don't like to reinvent
the wheel, but I like to have the possibility to make my own design and use
Embperl for rendering, instead of TT. Hopefully there are also some aspects
in things that I programm that will be usefull for the modperl site.
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Gerald Richter wrote:
>> - the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
>>perl.apache.org/dist/
>>
>
> ok, so we have the possibility to use content that is not part of the docset
yup.
>> - embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
>>doesn't mind.
>>
>
> For the Embperl site I have slightly different plans. There is a redesign
> already on the road for a couple of time, I just didn't have the time to
> finish and upload it. I have followed the discussion about the docset thing.
> I like your docset idea, but I have also own ideas which build on the new
> features of Embperl (namly XML & XSLT) Hopefully your docset tool is modular
> enough that TT is only used for rendering, so it would be maybe possible to
> plug Embperl, instead of TT ? (of course it doesn't would look nice if the
> Embperl website says "powered by TemplateToolkit :-)
>
> so for now we maybe can simply keep the modperl-site cvs and use it only for
> Embperl (and maybe the dist dir).
Well, the code is quite crude yet, and it's hard to modularize before
you know what to plan for, but yes the rendering engine is a separate
thing. So after generalizing it and making it pluggable it should be
possible to use other rendering modules.
Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
dynamically, resource wise of course.
BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl? may be it can
just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
roof.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
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Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Gerald Richter wrote:
>> - the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
>>perl.apache.org/dist/
>>
>
> ok, so we have the possibility to use content that is not part of the docset
yup.
>> - embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
>>doesn't mind.
>>
>
> For the Embperl site I have slightly different plans. There is a redesign
> already on the road for a couple of time, I just didn't have the time to
> finish and upload it. I have followed the discussion about the docset thing.
> I like your docset idea, but I have also own ideas which build on the new
> features of Embperl (namly XML & XSLT) Hopefully your docset tool is modular
> enough that TT is only used for rendering, so it would be maybe possible to
> plug Embperl, instead of TT ? (of course it doesn't would look nice if the
> Embperl website says "powered by TemplateToolkit :-)
>
> so for now we maybe can simply keep the modperl-site cvs and use it only for
> Embperl (and maybe the dist dir).
Well, the code is quite crude yet, and it's hard to modularize before
you know what to plan for, but yes the rendering engine is a separate
thing. So after generalizing it and making it pluggable it should be
possible to use other rendering modules.
Say, do you plan on static output from Embperl or only dynamic for
embperl docs? It doesn't make much sense to serve static content
dynamically, resource wise of course.
BTW, what's the source format that you use for embperl? may be it can
just plug into the docset system, and then we can keep it under the same
roof.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
>
> With my proposal we will have to do:
> on our machines:
> 1. cvs up
> 2. apply changes
> 3. cvs ci
> on apache.org:
> 4. cvs up
> 5. bin/build
>
> so there is one extra step to do. Is this OK?
>
For the modperl site that would be ok for me. (Since everything is done for
me by a Perl script, is doesn't matter if there is an addtional step :-)
> issues:
>
> - need to install TemplateToolkit and a few other packages on
> apache.org :( I guess we can do it locally, I don't want to pester Brian.
Should be no problem
> - the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
> perl.apache.org/dist/
ok, so we have the possibility to use content that is not part of the docset
> - embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
> doesn't mind.
For the Embperl site I have slightly different plans. There is a redesign
already on the road for a couple of time, I just didn't have the time to
finish and upload it. I have followed the discussion about the docset thing.
I like your docset idea, but I have also own ideas which build on the new
features of Embperl (namly XML & XSLT) Hopefully your docset tool is modular
enough that TT is only used for rendering, so it would be maybe possible to
plug Embperl, instead of TT ? (of course it doesn't would look nice if the
Embperl website says "powered by TemplateToolkit :-)
so for now we maybe can simply keep the modperl-site cvs and use it only for
Embperl (and maybe the dist dir).
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Gerald Richter <ri...@ecos.de>.
>
> With my proposal we will have to do:
> on our machines:
> 1. cvs up
> 2. apply changes
> 3. cvs ci
> on apache.org:
> 4. cvs up
> 5. bin/build
>
> so there is one extra step to do. Is this OK?
>
For the modperl site that would be ok for me. (Since everything is done for
me by a Perl script, is doesn't matter if there is an addtional step :-)
> issues:
>
> - need to install TemplateToolkit and a few other packages on
> apache.org :( I guess we can do it locally, I don't want to pester Brian.
Should be no problem
> - the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
> perl.apache.org/dist/
ok, so we have the possibility to use content that is not part of the docset
> - embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
> doesn't mind.
For the Embperl site I have slightly different plans. There is a redesign
already on the road for a couple of time, I just didn't have the time to
finish and upload it. I have followed the discussion about the docset thing.
I like your docset idea, but I have also own ideas which build on the new
features of Embperl (namly XML & XSLT) Hopefully your docset tool is modular
enough that TT is only used for rendering, so it would be maybe possible to
plug Embperl, instead of TT ? (of course it doesn't would look nice if the
Embperl website says "powered by TemplateToolkit :-)
so for now we maybe can simply keep the modperl-site cvs and use it only for
Embperl (and maybe the dist dir).
Gerald
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald Richter ecos electronic communication services gmbh
Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting
Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz
E-Mail: richter@ecos.de Voice: +49 6133 925131
WWW: http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152
-------------------------------------------------------------
rfc: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
This is an important change that I want to make, so please let me know
if don't feel comfortable with my proposal.
I've developed a package that can handle a docset of sources (in pod and
html currently, more formats to come) and generate an output in
html/ps/pdf (more formats to come). It should be very simple to manage
the source docset. The docsets can be nested.
Therefore I propose to merge documentation with mod_perl site and make
it one source docset, which is all properly linked and has an easy
navigation and buildable from one spot. That's why I suggest to remove
the modperl-site cvs repository and add the few docs from the site that
we have to the modperl-docs rep. Alternatively, we can nest modperl-docs
rep inside modperl-site rep on checkout.
Currently to update the site we do:
on our machines:
1. cvs up
2. apply changes
3. cvs ci
on apache.org:
4. cvs up
With my proposal we will have to do:
on our machines:
1. cvs up
2. apply changes
3. cvs ci
on apache.org:
4. cvs up
5. bin/build
so there is one extra step to do. Is this OK?
issues:
- need to install TemplateToolkit and a few other packages on
apache.org :( I guess we can do it locally, I don't want to pester Brian.
- the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
perl.apache.org/dist/
- embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
doesn't mind.
- anything else?
p.s. please don't ask me about the code, as soon as I put it in a better
shape, I'll announce it here:
http://www.template-toolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/template-docset
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
>
>>Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
>>you think.
>>
email at apache.org is slooooooooow :(
> Nice. I assume that we're at the stage of criticising the design and
> not the text/ (I'd like you to use the text I came up with for my
> experiment at http://24.255.234.11/~gnat/modperl/).
Sure, you've sent me this by email :) I didn't apply it yet.
You don't even have to critisize the design, since I'm not a designer.
What I've done is deploying template toolkit to build the site as the
component framework. Now if you want it to be different, it's *all* can
be changed.
The only difference to your proposal that you've sent earlier is that I
want re-usable elements and not having to update tens of pages if we
change a menu or a header.
> I have some questions:
>
> * why have a splash screen? They're an incredible waste of time. I've
> not heard a single word in favour of them.
I know, this will be gone. I've played with a simple ttree script from
TT2, but now I'm looking at much more advanced documentation build
framework that Andy Wardley uses for creating TT site. That's why I
don't even going to fix that now. I want to see if I can use it for the
site and for the mod_perl docs. I want things like automatic pod
translation and more.
> * I prefer a nav bar on the left-hand side to tabs. Does splash handle
> that? The way the tabs 'nest' is really ugly.
sure, that's easy to fix. Every element is a component (widget). just
fix the existing component your way or write a new one and you are on
your way. I'll do that at a later stage. The cool thing is that you
don't have to change anything else, just change the menu widget and
voila it on the left as a column.
> * blue on blue at the bottom for the http://perl.apache.org/ link is
> almost unreadable
Yup, I know :)
> Thanks for making progress on this!
:)
The only thing I want to get your comments so far is whether it's ok to
split the current long pages into many small ones. For example you can
see that I've split the download into a few small ones. I plan the same
for mailing lists: a page per mailing list.
We will do the design later. The build system I'm trying to find/setup
would be counted as perfect for us, if we can do the design at a later
stage, without changing the spreading of the content.
Another cool thing I want to achieve is an integration between the
site's content and the documentation, so they will look the same and
won't change the navigation. So I'm trying to work on the two in parallel.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Craig McLane wrote:
> I focused mostly on the content - Stas this rocks! Very easy to
> navigate, and the info (especially the Apache::Test documentation is
> great.
Thanks Craig :)
> One 'style' nit, it appears that an absolute width is specified on the tables
> used for formatting which bumps the right area of the page so that I
> have to scroll horizontally in my browser. It looks fine in links, so
> it might just be the font I am using.
I think the main problem is that some code sections in the docs are
wide, and they force the browser to scroll left. Possible solutions are:
* change the font style/size for the <PRE> sections to make it take
less space.
* the menu on the left takes a lot of space for no reason. it can be
moved in.
BTW, you don't see it yet, but the site sports PDF files of each
sub-docset (ala mod_perl guide). I just didn't link those yet. So once
I'm done you can just grab PDF files for an easier reading :)
> Craig
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2001 at 06:53:48PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
>>the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
>>
>>Here is a second preview of the site:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
>>
>>As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
>>navigation widgets, concepts in general.
>>
>>If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
>>see another email that I'll send in a sec.
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
>>http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
>>mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
>>http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
>>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
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Re: [preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Craig McLane wrote:
> I focused mostly on the content - Stas this rocks! Very easy to
> navigate, and the info (especially the Apache::Test documentation is
> great.
Thanks Craig :)
> One 'style' nit, it appears that an absolute width is specified on the tables
> used for formatting which bumps the right area of the page so that I
> have to scroll horizontally in my browser. It looks fine in links, so
> it might just be the font I am using.
I think the main problem is that some code sections in the docs are
wide, and they force the browser to scroll left. Possible solutions are:
* change the font style/size for the <PRE> sections to make it take
less space.
* the menu on the left takes a lot of space for no reason. it can be
moved in.
BTW, you don't see it yet, but the site sports PDF files of each
sub-docset (ala mod_perl guide). I just didn't link those yet. So once
I'm done you can just grab PDF files for an easier reading :)
> Craig
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2001 at 06:53:48PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
>>the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
>>
>>Here is a second preview of the site:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
>>
>>As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
>>navigation widgets, concepts in general.
>>
>>If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
>>see another email that I'll send in a sec.
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
>>http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
>>mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
>>http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
>>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Craig McLane <cm...@citysearch.com>.
I focused mostly on the content - Stas this rocks! Very easy to
navigate, and the info (especially the Apache::Test documentation is
great.
One 'style' nit, it appears that an absolute width is specified on the tables
used for formatting which bumps the right area of the page so that I
have to scroll horizontally in my browser. It looks fine in links, so
it might just be the font I am using.
Craig
On Fri, Nov 02, 2001 at 06:53:48PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
> the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
>
> Here is a second preview of the site:
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
>
> As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
> navigation widgets, concepts in general.
>
> If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
> see another email that I'll send in a sec.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
> http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
> mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
> http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: [preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Craig McLane <cm...@citysearch.com>.
I focused mostly on the content - Stas this rocks! Very easy to
navigate, and the info (especially the Apache::Test documentation is
great.
One 'style' nit, it appears that an absolute width is specified on the tables
used for formatting which bumps the right area of the page so that I
have to scroll horizontally in my browser. It looks fine in links, so
it might just be the font I am using.
Craig
On Fri, Nov 02, 2001 at 06:53:48PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
> the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
>
> Here is a second preview of the site:
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
>
> As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
> navigation widgets, concepts in general.
>
> If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
> see another email that I'll send in a sec.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
> http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
> mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
> http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
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[preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
Here is a second preview of the site:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
navigation widgets, concepts in general.
If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
see another email that I'll send in a sec.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[preview 2] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Those that are on the docset-templates list know that I'm moving on with
the new docset building code, I'm going to release it very soon now.
Here is a second preview of the site:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/index.html
As usual disregard the content, just say if you see something wrong with
navigation widgets, concepts in general.
If everything is cool, I'll start filling it with the real content. Also
see another email that I'll send in a sec.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
>
>>Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
>>you think.
>>
email at apache.org is slooooooooow :(
> Nice. I assume that we're at the stage of criticising the design and
> not the text/ (I'd like you to use the text I came up with for my
> experiment at http://24.255.234.11/~gnat/modperl/).
Sure, you've sent me this by email :) I didn't apply it yet.
You don't even have to critisize the design, since I'm not a designer.
What I've done is deploying template toolkit to build the site as the
component framework. Now if you want it to be different, it's *all* can
be changed.
The only difference to your proposal that you've sent earlier is that I
want re-usable elements and not having to update tens of pages if we
change a menu or a header.
> I have some questions:
>
> * why have a splash screen? They're an incredible waste of time. I've
> not heard a single word in favour of them.
I know, this will be gone. I've played with a simple ttree script from
TT2, but now I'm looking at much more advanced documentation build
framework that Andy Wardley uses for creating TT site. That's why I
don't even going to fix that now. I want to see if I can use it for the
site and for the mod_perl docs. I want things like automatic pod
translation and more.
> * I prefer a nav bar on the left-hand side to tabs. Does splash handle
> that? The way the tabs 'nest' is really ugly.
sure, that's easy to fix. Every element is a component (widget). just
fix the existing component your way or write a new one and you are on
your way. I'll do that at a later stage. The cool thing is that you
don't have to change anything else, just change the menu widget and
voila it on the left as a column.
> * blue on blue at the bottom for the http://perl.apache.org/ link is
> almost unreadable
Yup, I know :)
> Thanks for making progress on this!
:)
The only thing I want to get your comments so far is whether it's ok to
split the current long pages into many small ones. For example you can
see that I've split the download into a few small ones. I plan the same
for mailing lists: a page per mailing list.
We will do the design later. The build system I'm trying to find/setup
would be counted as perfect for us, if we can do the design at a later
stage, without changing the spreading of the content.
Another cool thing I want to achieve is an integration between the
site's content and the documentation, so they will look the same and
won't change the navigation. So I'm trying to work on the two in parallel.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
> you think.
Nice. I assume that we're at the stage of criticising the design and
not the text/ (I'd like you to use the text I came up with for my
experiment at http://24.255.234.11/~gnat/modperl/).
I have some questions:
* why have a splash screen? They're an incredible waste of time. I've
not heard a single word in favour of them.
* I prefer a nav bar on the left-hand side to tabs. Does splash handle
that? The way the tabs 'nest' is really ugly.
* blue on blue at the bottom for the http://perl.apache.org/ link is
almost unreadable
Thanks for making progress on this!
Nat
Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
> you think.
Nice. I assume that we're at the stage of criticising the design and
not the text/ (I'd like you to use the text I came up with for my
experiment at http://24.255.234.11/~gnat/modperl/).
I have some questions:
* why have a splash screen? They're an incredible waste of time. I've
not heard a single word in favour of them.
* I prefer a nav bar on the left-hand side to tabs. Does splash handle
that? The way the tabs 'nest' is really ugly.
* blue on blue at the bottom for the http://perl.apache.org/ link is
almost unreadable
Thanks for making progress on this!
Nat
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Re: [preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
I forgot to link to the source, which is the most important so you can
see how components work:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite.tgz
Stas Bekman wrote:
> OK, I've started playing with template toolkit docs build system. This
> what I've got from using ttree script. This is very incomplete as I
> intend to try to adopt the docs build system used by TT.
>
>
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/
>
> The cool thing is that it uses a Splash library, where you can define
> and use nice widgets, change colors, etc. See
> http://www.template-toolkit.org/splash/
>
> TT is very extensible and scalable, so I hope it'll be a good choice.
> I'm looking at its POD2 (HTML|PS|PDF) builder...
>
> Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
> you think.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
> http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
> mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
> http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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rfc: moving modperl-site rep into modperl-docs rep
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
This is an important change that I want to make, so please let me know
if don't feel comfortable with my proposal.
I've developed a package that can handle a docset of sources (in pod and
html currently, more formats to come) and generate an output in
html/ps/pdf (more formats to come). It should be very simple to manage
the source docset. The docsets can be nested.
Therefore I propose to merge documentation with mod_perl site and make
it one source docset, which is all properly linked and has an easy
navigation and buildable from one spot. That's why I suggest to remove
the modperl-site cvs repository and add the few docs from the site that
we have to the modperl-docs rep. Alternatively, we can nest modperl-docs
rep inside modperl-site rep on checkout.
Currently to update the site we do:
on our machines:
1. cvs up
2. apply changes
3. cvs ci
on apache.org:
4. cvs up
With my proposal we will have to do:
on our machines:
1. cvs up
2. apply changes
3. cvs ci
on apache.org:
4. cvs up
5. bin/build
so there is one extra step to do. Is this OK?
issues:
- need to install TemplateToolkit and a few other packages on
apache.org :( I guess we can do it locally, I don't want to pester Brian.
- the package handles links so we have no problem linking to e.g.
perl.apache.org/dist/
- embperl site, I suppose it can be folded into the docset, if Gerald
doesn't mind.
- anything else?
p.s. please don't ask me about the code, as soon as I put it in a better
shape, I'll announce it here:
http://www.template-toolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/template-docset
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
[preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
OK, I've started playing with template toolkit docs build system. This
what I've got from using ttree script. This is very incomplete as I
intend to try to adopt the docs build system used by TT.
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/
The cool thing is that it uses a Splash library, where you can define
and use nice widgets, change colors, etc. See
http://www.template-toolkit.org/splash/
TT is very extensible and scalable, so I hope it'll be a good choice.
I'm looking at its POD2 (HTML|PS|PDF) builder...
Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
you think.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
>>cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
>>
>
> Didn't you say that the current site is maintained with CVS? Just
> make a subdirectory /new and put the new site into that. Work from
> there.
ok
>>Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
>>static page or dynamic?
>>
>
> All static right now. If there's a system (e.g., Mason) being used
> where it's hosted, someone else should componentize it.
>
> I agree the order should be:
> * componentize
> * colorize
> * contentize
>
> (You can tell I'm getting comfortable with management by the way I
> hold down the English language and give it some good hard back door
> action with all the "-ize"s)
>
>
>>But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
>>offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
>>look and feel from those who know how.
>>
>
> I've heard nothing back except from you and Ken. If nobody offers to
> tone down the colour, it's going to stay bright and gaudy.
that's why I've suggested to send this to modperl list, where you have
people with time on their hands.
ok, you got me, I've to setup the code for generating mod_perl 2.0 docs
and I was postponing this trying to do some coding first, but I'll try
to implement it now. Since I plan to move to use template toolkit, I'll
create a components system for the site as well.
Since we have to login and update the checked out copy of
perl.apache.org anyway, I see no reason why not to run a script that
will run 'cvs up' and run ttpage to update all the components.
Any objections to this?
Once I'm done, I'll throw a few pages in for your observation and from
there on we can start working on making a nice look-n-feel. Of course
I'll take the work that you've done already. Can you please send me the
pages (privately) you've done already?
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
>>cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
>>
>
> Didn't you say that the current site is maintained with CVS? Just
> make a subdirectory /new and put the new site into that. Work from
> there.
ok
>>Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
>>static page or dynamic?
>>
>
> All static right now. If there's a system (e.g., Mason) being used
> where it's hosted, someone else should componentize it.
>
> I agree the order should be:
> * componentize
> * colorize
> * contentize
>
> (You can tell I'm getting comfortable with management by the way I
> hold down the English language and give it some good hard back door
> action with all the "-ize"s)
>
>
>>But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
>>offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
>>look and feel from those who know how.
>>
>
> I've heard nothing back except from you and Ken. If nobody offers to
> tone down the colour, it's going to stay bright and gaudy.
that's why I've suggested to send this to modperl list, where you have
people with time on their hands.
ok, you got me, I've to setup the code for generating mod_perl 2.0 docs
and I was postponing this trying to do some coding first, but I'll try
to implement it now. Since I plan to move to use template toolkit, I'll
create a components system for the site as well.
Since we have to login and update the checked out copy of
perl.apache.org anyway, I see no reason why not to run a script that
will run 'cvs up' and run ttpage to update all the components.
Any objections to this?
Once I'm done, I'll throw a few pages in for your observation and from
there on we can start working on making a nice look-n-feel. Of course
I'll take the work that you've done already. Can you please send me the
pages (privately) you've done already?
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[preview 1] new mod_perl site concept
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
OK, I've started playing with template toolkit docs build system. This
what I've got from using ttree script. This is very incomplete as I
intend to try to adopt the docs build system used by TT.
http://www.apache.org/~stas/newsite/
The cool thing is that it uses a Splash library, where you can define
and use nice widgets, change colors, etc. See
http://www.template-toolkit.org/splash/
TT is very extensible and scalable, so I hope it'll be a good choice.
I'm looking at its POD2 (HTML|PS|PDF) builder...
Notice that I've just taken a few pages together, but let me know what
you think.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Though I prefer mild colours, not shouting ones. I use the site all the
> time, and I don't need to be shouted at. May be we want a splash page
> just for some entrance page, which those who use the site daily don't
> have to see. I like the colours at use.perl.org and even more the ones
> used by http://freshmeat.net/.
Splashpages are a crime against nature. I'll leave the colors to
someone who can see them :-)
> cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
Didn't you say that the current site is maintained with CVS? Just
make a subdirectory /new and put the new site into that. Work from
there.
> Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
> static page or dynamic?
All static right now. If there's a system (e.g., Mason) being used
where it's hosted, someone else should componentize it.
I agree the order should be:
* componentize
* colorize
* contentize
(You can tell I'm getting comfortable with management by the way I
hold down the English language and give it some good hard back door
action with all the "-ize"s)
> But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
> offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
> look and feel from those who know how.
I've heard nothing back except from you and Ken. If nobody offers to
tone down the colour, it's going to stay bright and gaudy.
Nat
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Though I prefer mild colours, not shouting ones. I use the site all the
> time, and I don't need to be shouted at. May be we want a splash page
> just for some entrance page, which those who use the site daily don't
> have to see. I like the colours at use.perl.org and even more the ones
> used by http://freshmeat.net/.
Splashpages are a crime against nature. I'll leave the colors to
someone who can see them :-)
> cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
Didn't you say that the current site is maintained with CVS? Just
make a subdirectory /new and put the new site into that. Work from
there.
> Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
> static page or dynamic?
All static right now. If there's a system (e.g., Mason) being used
where it's hosted, someone else should componentize it.
I agree the order should be:
* componentize
* colorize
* contentize
(You can tell I'm getting comfortable with management by the way I
hold down the English language and give it some good hard back door
action with all the "-ize"s)
> But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
> offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
> look and feel from those who know how.
I've heard nothing back except from you and Ken. If nobody offers to
tone down the colour, it's going to stay bright and gaudy.
Nat
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Ken Williams writes:
>
>>Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page
>>for a few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while
>>staring at a blank white sheet of paper.
>>
man, that was so strong, I thought I've hit some wrong link :)
> I'm impressed that you suffered such intense retinal distress and
> never made the logical deduction that I'm colour-blind. (I am :-)
>
> In many ways the colours are the last-important part, but I like the
> idea of having something bright to catch attention.
if you can define them in one place, like CSS, that's true, otherwise
it's pain to maintain.
Though I prefer mild colours, not shouting ones. I use the site all the
time, and I don't need to be shouted at. May be we want a splash page
just for some entrance page, which those who use the site daily don't
have to see. I like the colours at use.perl.org and even more the ones
used by http://freshmeat.net/.
>>In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
>>everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
>
> Glad to hear it. If nobody objects to the structure, we could put it
> into CVS and open it up for others to work on. If I'm the only one
> working on it, it'll take far too long. Does this sound the right
> time for CVS?
cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
static page or dynamic?
Otherwise it's good to have someone to push for a change, I think I'll
help with the content once we figure out the skeleton.
But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
look and feel from those who know how.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Ken Williams writes:
>
>>Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page
>>for a few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while
>>staring at a blank white sheet of paper.
>>
man, that was so strong, I thought I've hit some wrong link :)
> I'm impressed that you suffered such intense retinal distress and
> never made the logical deduction that I'm colour-blind. (I am :-)
>
> In many ways the colours are the last-important part, but I like the
> idea of having something bright to catch attention.
if you can define them in one place, like CSS, that's true, otherwise
it's pain to maintain.
Though I prefer mild colours, not shouting ones. I use the site all the
time, and I don't need to be shouted at. May be we want a splash page
just for some entrance page, which those who use the site daily don't
have to see. I like the colours at use.perl.org and even more the ones
used by http://freshmeat.net/.
>>In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
>>everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
>
> Glad to hear it. If nobody objects to the structure, we could put it
> into CVS and open it up for others to work on. If I'm the only one
> working on it, it'll take far too long. Does this sound the right
> time for CVS?
cvs where? it has to stay at perl.apache.org I believe.
Also what components framework have you used, is it Mason? Is it a
static page or dynamic?
Otherwise it's good to have someone to push for a change, I think I'll
help with the content once we figure out the skeleton.
But it'd be nice to give some good web-designer do some brushing, no
offense Nat :) We can show it on the modperl list and ask for a better
look and feel from those who know how.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Ken Williams writes:
> Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page
> for a few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while
> staring at a blank white sheet of paper.
I'm impressed that you suffered such intense retinal distress and
never made the logical deduction that I'm colour-blind. (I am :-)
In many ways the colours are the last-important part, but I like the
idea of having something bright to catch attention.
> In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
> everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
Glad to hear it. If nobody objects to the structure, we could put it
into CVS and open it up for others to work on. If I'm the only one
working on it, it'll take far too long. Does this sound the right
time for CVS?
Nat
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Ken Williams writes:
> Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page
> for a few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while
> staring at a blank white sheet of paper.
I'm impressed that you suffered such intense retinal distress and
never made the logical deduction that I'm colour-blind. (I am :-)
In many ways the colours are the last-important part, but I like the
idea of having something bright to catch attention.
> In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
> everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
Glad to hear it. If nobody objects to the structure, we could put it
into CVS and open it up for others to work on. If I'm the only one
working on it, it'll take far too long. Does this sound the right
time for CVS?
Nat
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Ken Williams <ke...@mathforum.org>.
Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
> There are some web design To Do items:
> * ensure colors are part of the standard palette (right now they're
> just easy to type in hex :-)
Holy shit Nat, those colors are strong. =) You've really taken
attention-getting into the twenty-first century!
Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page for a
few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while staring at a
blank white sheet of paper.
In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
-Ken
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Ken Williams <ke...@mathforum.org>.
Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
> There are some web design To Do items:
> * ensure colors are part of the standard palette (right now they're
> just easy to type in hex :-)
Holy shit Nat, those colors are strong. =) You've really taken
attention-getting into the twenty-first century!
Not that I dislike them - the current colors let me look at the page for a
few seconds, then shut off the monitor and read the text while staring at a
blank white sheet of paper.
In any case, I like the organizational scheme you've got. Having
everything on a single page was a pain in the butt.
-Ken
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Ask Bjoern Hansen writes:
> > I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
> > week. Thanks,
>
> awesome! :-)
I did have something by the end of last week, just not much. I'd
hoped to find the time to plug the holes this week, but haven't been
able to. So here it is, woefully incomplete.
The URL is:
http://c1853353-a.ftclns1.co.home.com/~gnat/modperl/
I've got:
* Home page
* About
* Download
done. My plan was to just go through perl.apache.org and move content
into that framework (for instance, success stories and testimonials go
as a page under 'About').
There are some web design To Do items:
* ensure colors are part of the standard palette (right now they're
just easy to type in hex :-)
* contemplate CSS and enforcing standards like "all links are in bold".
Nat
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Ken Williams wrote:
> Before I forget to say anything:
>
> Ask, haven't you set up a basic Mason framework for the *.perl.org sites
> that an apache.perl.org could just piggyback onto? Stas, I think that
> was why Nat suggested Mason - not that using Mason would necessarily
> make anything better itself, but that we could get some leverage from
> the other *.perl.org sites, and it could be ultimately less work and
> less maintenance and look better without much effort.
Well, I don't know how the *.perl.org sites are maintained. Are they
under cvs control for their source files?
I have nothing against Mason, the only concerns are being able to
control source files without cvs control and I'm not sure how will it
work with ASF project being hosted at perl.org.
> Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
>
>> Stas Bekman writes:
>>
>>> Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
>>> hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
>>> this person.
>>
>>
>> I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
>> week. Thanks,
>>
>> Nat
>>
>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Ken Williams wrote:
> Before I forget to say anything:
>
> Ask, haven't you set up a basic Mason framework for the *.perl.org sites
> that an apache.perl.org could just piggyback onto? Stas, I think that
> was why Nat suggested Mason - not that using Mason would necessarily
> make anything better itself, but that we could get some leverage from
> the other *.perl.org sites, and it could be ultimately less work and
> less maintenance and look better without much effort.
Well, I don't know how the *.perl.org sites are maintained. Are they
under cvs control for their source files?
I have nothing against Mason, the only concerns are being able to
control source files without cvs control and I'm not sure how will it
work with ASF project being hosted at perl.org.
> Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
>
>> Stas Bekman writes:
>>
>>> Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
>>> hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
>>> this person.
>>
>>
>> I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
>> week. Thanks,
>>
>> Nat
>>
>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Ken Williams <ke...@mathforum.org>.
Before I forget to say anything:
Ask, haven't you set up a basic Mason framework for the *.perl.org sites
that an apache.perl.org could just piggyback onto? Stas, I think that was
why Nat suggested Mason - not that using Mason would necessarily make
anything better itself, but that we could get some leverage from the other
*.perl.org sites, and it could be ultimately less work and less maintenance
and look better without much effort.
Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
>> Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
>> hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
>> this person.
>
> I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
> week. Thanks,
>
> Nat
>
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Ken Williams <ke...@mathforum.org>.
Before I forget to say anything:
Ask, haven't you set up a basic Mason framework for the *.perl.org sites
that an apache.perl.org could just piggyback onto? Stas, I think that was
why Nat suggested Mason - not that using Mason would necessarily make
anything better itself, but that we could get some leverage from the other
*.perl.org sites, and it could be ultimately less work and less maintenance
and look better without much effort.
Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com> wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
>> Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
>> hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
>> this person.
>
> I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
> week. Thanks,
>
> Nat
>
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Ask Bjoern Hansen <as...@perl.org>.
On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
> > Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
> > hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
> > this person.
>
> I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
> week. Thanks,
awesome! :-)
--
ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Everything is under CVS, and if somebody wants to come and give a
> hand to redo the site, there is no problem to give a cvs access to
> this person.
I'll chew on a new layout and give you something by the end of the
week. Thanks,
Nat
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by brian moseley <bc...@maz.org>.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
> can you please post the URL again? thanks!
http://thisishomemade.com/for/modperl/site/
like he said before, it's really just a reorganization of
the available information, rather than a complete site
architecture with fancy rollover navigation, huge menu bars,
swooshes and swirls. what with mp2 and what not, it may be
that this design's time has passed.
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by brian moseley <bc...@maz.org>.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
> can you please post the URL again? thanks!
http://thisishomemade.com/for/modperl/site/
like he said before, it's really just a reorganization of
the available information, rather than a complete site
architecture with fancy rollover navigation, huge menu bars,
swooshes and swirls. what with mp2 and what not, it may be
that this design's time has passed.
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
brian moseley wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>
>>We have had two new designs worked out long time ago,
>>but one has been picked by take23.org and the other
>>wasn't applied. (hi brian)
>>
>
> :(
>
> sorry! i have this tendency to bite off more than i can
> chew. i have 10 projects and none of them will ever be
> finished.
that's ok... we are all in the same boat :)
>>What I want to say, is that it's not a point of where to
>>host the site. The point is that we need someone to do
>>the job of re-doing and making it easy to maintain the
>>site, to keep it nice.
>>
>
> jim's design is still available if somebody wants to use it.
can you please post the URL again? thanks!
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
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Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
brian moseley wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>
>>We have had two new designs worked out long time ago,
>>but one has been picked by take23.org and the other
>>wasn't applied. (hi brian)
>>
>
> :(
>
> sorry! i have this tendency to bite off more than i can
> chew. i have 10 projects and none of them will ever be
> finished.
that's ok... we are all in the same boat :)
>>What I want to say, is that it's not a point of where to
>>host the site. The point is that we need someone to do
>>the job of re-doing and making it easy to maintain the
>>site, to keep it nice.
>>
>
> jim's design is still available if somebody wants to use it.
can you please post the URL again? thanks!
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by brian moseley <bc...@maz.org>.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
> We have had two new designs worked out long time ago,
> but one has been picked by take23.org and the other
> wasn't applied. (hi brian)
:(
sorry! i have this tendency to bite off more than i can
chew. i have 10 projects and none of them will ever be
finished.
> What I want to say, is that it's not a point of where to
> host the site. The point is that we need someone to do
> the job of re-doing and making it easy to maintain the
> site, to keep it nice.
jim's design is still available if somebody wants to use it.
Re: perl.apache.org / apache.perl.org
Posted by brian moseley <bc...@maz.org>.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Stas Bekman wrote:
> We have had two new designs worked out long time ago,
> but one has been picked by take23.org and the other
> wasn't applied. (hi brian)
:(
sorry! i have this tendency to bite off more than i can
chew. i have 10 projects and none of them will ever be
finished.
> What I want to say, is that it's not a point of where to
> host the site. The point is that we need someone to do
> the job of re-doing and making it easy to maintain the
> site, to keep it nice.
jim's design is still available if somebody wants to use it.
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