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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> on 2025/10/21 12:56:46 UTC
[ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
[dev list only]
The Apache Commons Skin team is pleased to announce the release of
Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0.
This is a feature and maintenance release. Java 8 or later is required.
Changes in this version include:
The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
Gary Gregory
Apache Commons
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 at 00:48, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Le mar. 21 oct. 2025 à 23:59, sebb <se...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 18:09, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
> > >
> > > This is not true. Quoting Mark Thomas (VP "Trademarks"):
> > > ---CUT---
> > > My very strong recommendation is that if a project wants to include the
> > > project name in their logo then they either use
> > > "<Project>"
> > > or
> > > "Apache <Project>"
> > > and do not use
> > > "ASF <Project>"
> > > ---CUT---
> > >
> > > As argued on JIRA, I strongly favour "Commons"
> >
> > However Mark also said[1]:
> >
> > ---CUT---
> > There are a small number of projects where registering the bare name
> > would be challenging (Commons is one of them).
> > Using the name full name "Apache Commons" allows the Commons project
> > to gain the protection afforded by our registrations of the Apache
> > mark.
> > ---CUT---
>
> Neither the ASF nor anyone else should feel entitled to claim ownership
> of the word "commons".
>
> > If we drop the Apache prefix then this protection will not be available.
>
> Are you (and Mark) saying that the "Apache Commons" _project_ will be at
> risk if our _logo_ does not contain the word "Apache"?
> Which "protection" are you talking about? What is the "risk" of "commons"
> being used in other contexts? Why would you even think of preventing that?
> Of course, there is a restriction to other entities using "Apache Commons"
> because this is the registered trademark of this project; my understanding is
> that it holds whatever the logo may be.
>
> I want to be consistent with the rationale that led to the (ASF) logo change.
>
> Limiting the use of "Apache" to the strict minimum is the right thing to do.
>
> A logo does not need to contain "Apache" any more than it needs to contain
> "Commons". For that matter, a really original graphical logo would likely be
> much easier to protect than a wordmark that is an English word.
These are questions for Mark.
> Gilles
>
> >
> > Sebb
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-179?focusedCommentId=18031079&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-18031079
> >
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
Posted by Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com>.
Le mar. 21 oct. 2025 à 23:59, sebb <se...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 18:09, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > >
> > > > The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
> >
> > This is not true. Quoting Mark Thomas (VP "Trademarks"):
> > ---CUT---
> > My very strong recommendation is that if a project wants to include the
> > project name in their logo then they either use
> > "<Project>"
> > or
> > "Apache <Project>"
> > and do not use
> > "ASF <Project>"
> > ---CUT---
> >
> > As argued on JIRA, I strongly favour "Commons"
>
> However Mark also said[1]:
>
> ---CUT---
> There are a small number of projects where registering the bare name
> would be challenging (Commons is one of them).
> Using the name full name "Apache Commons" allows the Commons project
> to gain the protection afforded by our registrations of the Apache
> mark.
> ---CUT---
Neither the ASF nor anyone else should feel entitled to claim ownership
of the word "commons".
> If we drop the Apache prefix then this protection will not be available.
Are you (and Mark) saying that the "Apache Commons" _project_ will be at
risk if our _logo_ does not contain the word "Apache"?
Which "protection" are you talking about? What is the "risk" of "commons"
being used in other contexts? Why would you even think of preventing that?
Of course, there is a restriction to other entities using "Apache Commons"
because this is the registered trademark of this project; my understanding is
that it holds whatever the logo may be.
I want to be consistent with the rationale that led to the (ASF) logo change.
Limiting the use of "Apache" to the strict minimum is the right thing to do.
A logo does not need to contain "Apache" any more than it needs to contain
"Commons". For that matter, a really original graphical logo would likely be
much easier to protect than a wordmark that is an English word.
Gilles
>
> Sebb
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-179?focusedCommentId=18031079&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-18031079
>
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 18:09, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I get that this is a release-in-a-hurry in order to stop using a
> non-compliant wordmark.
> This can only be a temporary logo given a discussion is taking
> place there:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-179
>
> Le mar. 21 oct. 2025 à 17:39, Alex Herbert <al...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Sorry, I was late for the review. Nit pick. The Apache and Commons
> > words are not aligned left-justified. In the component logo the Apache
> > and Commons words are again not aligned left-justified but the Commons
> > and Component words are aligned left-justified. Given that the words
> > on each line are definitely not centre-aligned, it seems odd that they
> > are nearly but not actually left-aligned.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 13:57, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > [dev list only]
> > >
> > > The Apache Commons Skin team is pleased to announce the release of
> > > Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0.
> > >
> > > This is a feature and maintenance release. Java 8 or later is required.
> > >
> > > Changes in this version include:
> > >
> > > The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
>
> This is not true. Quoting Mark Thomas (VP "Trademarks"):
> ---CUT---
> My very strong recommendation is that if a project wants to include the
> project name in their logo then they either use
> "<Project>"
> or
> "Apache <Project>"
> and do not use
> "ASF <Project>"
> ---CUT---
>
> As argued on JIRA, I strongly favour "Commons"
However Mark also said[1]:
---CUT---
There are a small number of projects where registering the bare name
would be challenging (Commons is one of them).
Using the name full name "Apache Commons" allows the Commons project
to gain the protection afforded by our registrations of the Apache
mark.
---CUT---
If we drop the Apache prefix then this protection will not be available.
Sebb
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-179?focusedCommentId=18031079&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-18031079
> Gilles
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
Posted by Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
I get that this is a release-in-a-hurry in order to stop using a
non-compliant wordmark.
This can only be a temporary logo given a discussion is taking
place there:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-179
Le mar. 21 oct. 2025 à 17:39, Alex Herbert <al...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Sorry, I was late for the review. Nit pick. The Apache and Commons
> words are not aligned left-justified. In the component logo the Apache
> and Commons words are again not aligned left-justified but the Commons
> and Component words are aligned left-justified. Given that the words
> on each line are definitely not centre-aligned, it seems odd that they
> are nearly but not actually left-aligned.
>
> Alex
>
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 13:57, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [dev list only]
> >
> > The Apache Commons Skin team is pleased to announce the release of
> > Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0.
> >
> > This is a feature and maintenance release. Java 8 or later is required.
> >
> > Changes in this version include:
> >
> > The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
This is not true. Quoting Mark Thomas (VP "Trademarks"):
---CUT---
My very strong recommendation is that if a project wants to include the
project name in their logo then they either use
"<Project>"
or
"Apache <Project>"
and do not use
"ASF <Project>"
---CUT---
As argued on JIRA, I strongly favour "Commons"
Gilles
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0
Posted by Alex Herbert <al...@gmail.com>.
Sorry, I was late for the review. Nit pick. The Apache and Commons
words are not aligned left-justified. In the component logo the Apache
and Commons words are again not aligned left-justified but the Commons
and Component words are aligned left-justified. Given that the words
on each line are definitely not centre-aligned, it seems odd that they
are nearly but not actually left-aligned.
Alex
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 at 13:57, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [dev list only]
>
> The Apache Commons Skin team is pleased to announce the release of
> Apache Commons Skin 5.2.0.
>
> This is a feature and maintenance release. Java 8 or later is required.
>
> Changes in this version include:
>
> The Project logotype must use the word "Apache", not "The ASF"
>
> Gary Gregory
> Apache Commons
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org