cross framework bitching

[Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>]

Tapestry developers,

Again, there is a bit of a row going on where the 'Wicket community'
is accused of being a rowdy bunch
(https://beta.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180&postID=266226734789322024).

I'd like to state as one of Wicket's core developers that we (Wicket's
committers) are not encouraging anyone to write inflammatory comments
on blogs and articles. We feel Tapestry is a good framework, and
usually advertise it as one of the better frameworks out there.

We'd like to apologize for any bad behavior coming from 'the Wicket
community', while at the same time, we'd like to make clear that we
can't/ won't police our users, and in this particular case there isn't
even any proof the remark was left by someone 'of the community'. Such
remarks can best be seen and handled as what they really are: remarks
by individuals.

Good luck, and let's get back to coding ;)

Eelco Hillenius

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Re: cross framework bitching

[Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>]

> -) The blog entry you link to had nothing to do with wicket, it was
> about Tapestry 5 development progress.

Yep, but the comments started this all.

> -) Your user community linked to it and started a discussion about it
> which you suggest you discourage and yet openly add to the discussion
> leaving the impression that you agree with the people harassing Howard
> on his blog. http://www.nabble.com/funny--OT%7D-tf2793504.html#a7793441

I don't agree with people harassing Howard, and reading back my
comments, I don't think I left that impression. I do think Howard
should have a bit thicker skin though. You don't want to know how
often people are attacking me/ Wicket with Tapestry/ JSF/ Struts
centric arguments. The thing to do then is get back to the attacker
directly, rather then generalizing the 'conflict'. Really, the
comments on that blog are as insulting to me/ us as they are to you.

> -) I agree that this sort of thing is bad for projects in general, but
> if you think I'm going to sit idly by and watch my friends get torn
> apart by people for no good reason you are sadly mistaken.

You had all the right reacting on that thread.

> -) I don't agree that you can't police your users/community. Leaders
> lead by example. If you didn't think these actions were appropriate
> you could just have easily said "while I understand how this might be
> controversial/etc/whatever I think these feelings are best placed in
> another medium not in our projects mailing list." A blog is one thing,
> a project mailing list is quite another.

I'm not in favor of being politically correct all the time. If people
want to bring something to our attention, I think the user list is
fine for that. I rather speak about it in the open than building up
some behind-the-scenes irritations. That said, I agree that thread
wasn't necessary in the first place. As one of the earlier developers
and a close friend of Jonathan, I just get irritated about reading how
Wicket is supposed to be a rip-off and how the community around it is
supposed to consist of a rowdy bunch. Hence my harsh reaction.

> So yes, let's get back to developing. Just remember that "rowdy users"
> can go both ways.

Yep, we should both remember that.

Eelco

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Re: cross framework bitching

[Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>]

I think we do appreciate your pov, but I'd like to make a couple
points about this.

-) The blog entry you link to had nothing to do with wicket, it was
about Tapestry 5 development progress.

-) Your user community linked to it and started a discussion about it
which you suggest you discourage and yet openly add to the discussion
leaving the impression that you agree with the people harassing Howard
on his blog. http://www.nabble.com/funny--OT%7D-tf2793504.html#a7793441

-) I agree that this sort of thing is bad for projects in general, but
if you think I'm going to sit idly by and watch my friends get torn
apart by people for no good reason you are sadly mistaken.

-) I don't agree that you can't police your users/community. Leaders
lead by example. If you didn't think these actions were appropriate
you could just have easily said "while I understand how this might be
controversial/etc/whatever I think these feelings are best placed in
another medium not in our projects mailing list." A blog is one thing,
a project mailing list is quite another.

So yes, let's get back to developing. Just remember that "rowdy users"
can go both ways.

On 12/12/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
> We'd like to apologize for any bad behavior coming from 'the Wicket
> community', while at the same time, we'd like to make clear that we
> can't/ won't police our users, and in this particular case there isn't
> even any proof the remark was left by someone 'of the community'. Such
> remarks can best be seen and handled as what they really are: remarks
> by individuals.
>
> Good luck, and let's get back to coding ;)
>
> Eelco Hillenius
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>


-- 
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com

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