Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 29.06.2007 07:09, Gwyn Evans wrote:

>>>> One issue, raised[2] by Joerg Heinicke is if proposed JIRA keys should be
>>>> somehow put into Cocoon context by e.g. prefixing them with 'C' letter.
> 
>> Some keys will become really long, isn't 'C' enough as a prefix?
> 
> As a disinterested observer, I'd note that 'C' isn't enough to
> differentiate between Cocoon & the other existing Apache/Incubator
> projects of Cayenne or CXF, let alone any future ones, so I'd not have
> thought so, personally...

What's the outcome? Do we go with COCOON prefix?

Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>]

Joerg Heinicke pisze:
> On 13.07.2007 15:46, Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:
> 
>> I don't know the process in detail but the most important work is 
>> related to the fact that components are not migrated and have to be 
>> recreated manually. Of course, we won't need all of them because many 
>> components will be replaced by own project.
>>
>> Other things that come to mind is updating our poms, writing JIRA 
>> welcome page: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON, creating 
>> versions and so on.
>>
>> Lots of tedious work. I'd be happy to take advantage of your help! 
>> What are your plans? I'd be able to start on Monday, I guess.
> 
> I can do the Jira things. Haven't worked with Maven yet, so that's 
> probably not my part. The first steps is to be done by infra anyway, 
> isn't it?

Yes, I've asked them for opinions on improved (COCOON prefixes added) proposal:. If they are fine with it I'll call a vote and we'll talk 
about sharing the effort.

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 13.07.2007 15:46, Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:

> I don't know the process in detail but the most important work is 
> related to the fact that components are not migrated and have to be 
> recreated manually. Of course, we won't need all of them because many 
> components will be replaced by own project.
> 
> Other things that come to mind is updating our poms, writing JIRA 
> welcome page: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON, creating 
> versions and so on.
> 
> Lots of tedious work. I'd be happy to take advantage of your help! What 
> are your plans? I'd be able to start on Monday, I guess.

I can do the Jira things. Haven't worked with Maven yet, so that's 
probably not my part. The first steps is to be done by infra anyway, 
isn't it?

Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>]

Joerg Heinicke pisze:
> 
> What actual work needs to be done with the division process? Maybe I can jump in.

I don't know the process in detail but the most important work is related to the fact that components are not migrated and have to be 
recreated manually. Of course, we won't need all of them because many components will be replaced by own project.

Other things that come to mind is updating our poms, writing JIRA welcome page: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON, creating 
versions and so on.

Lots of tedious work. I'd be happy to take advantage of your help! What are your plans? I'd be able to start on Monday, I guess.

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

Grzegorz Kossakowski <gkossakowski <at> apache.org> writes:

> > No, as far as I know we can't do it without them anyway. Maybe just 
> > re-ask with the "offer" to use the COCOON prefix?
> 
> I could do that but I have no free time to handle division process now. I want
> to make some progress on my GSoC work.
> 
> Let it be that I'll try to push things forward with COCOON prefix but I'll not
> set any schedules for now.

What actual work needs to be done with the division process? Maybe I can jump in.

Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>]

Joerg Heinicke pisze:
> On 11.07.2007 01:15, Ralph Goers wrote:
> 
>> But neither do you see a positive reaction.
>>
>> I believe Maven structures their Jira as has been requested, but it 
>> isn't hosted at Apache.
> 
> There are more projects set up like this like Avalon stuff and 
> especially (no longer Jakarta) Commons.

Yep.

> No, as far as I know we can't do it without them anyway. Maybe just 
> re-ask with the "offer" to use the COCOON prefix?

I could do that but I have no free time to handle division process now. I want to make some progress on my GSoC work.

Let it be that I'll try to push things forward with COCOON prefix but I'll not set any schedules for now.

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 11.07.2007 01:15, Ralph Goers wrote:

>> So I can't see a negative reaction from infra.
>>
> But neither do you see a positive reaction.
> 
> I believe Maven structures their Jira as has been requested, but it 
> isn't hosted at Apache.

There are more projects set up like this like Avalon stuff and 
especially (no longer Jakarta) Commons.

> The real question for me is, do we need 
> explicit permission to do this or do we do it unless someone says no. I 
> get the impression that the second alternative is your preferred approach.

No, as far as I know we can't do it without them anyway. Maybe just 
re-ask with the "offer" to use the COCOON prefix?

Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>]

Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 10.07.2007 23:08, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> We also got this response:
>>
>> Jeff Turner pisze:
>>
>> I don't think splitting the COCOON project is a good idea..
>>
>> From what I see, you've arbitrarily divided Cocoon modules into areas of
>> functionality ("core", "database", "forms" etc) and want a separate
>> project for each. From a JIRA modelling POV, the only advantage of
>> splitting these into separate projects is so each can have their own
>> versions, components and release process (release notes, etc).
>
> That was exactly what I meant: Jeff put our need into question but 
> Grek explained our needs in detail [1]. The rest of the thread - as 
> far as it was on this list - was only about the prefix. So I can't see 
> a negative reaction from infra.
>
But neither do you see a positive reaction. The rest of the thread?  
Basically, I think those were the only two replies. 

I believe Maven structures their Jira as has been requested, but it 
isn't hosted at Apache.  The real question for me is, do we need 
explicit permission to do this or do we do it unless someone says no. I 
get the impression that the second alternative is your preferred approach. 

I really have no opinion one way or another on whether to divide up the 
modules, but I would have liked a bit more of an answer.

Ralph

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 10.07.2007 23:08, Ralph Goers wrote:

> We also got this response:
> 
> Jeff Turner pisze:
> 
> I don't think splitting the COCOON project is a good idea..
> 
> From what I see, you've arbitrarily divided Cocoon modules into areas of
> functionality ("core", "database", "forms" etc) and want a separate
> project for each. From a JIRA modelling POV, the only advantage of
> splitting these into separate projects is so each can have their own
> versions, components and release process (release notes, etc).

That was exactly what I meant: Jeff put our need into question but Grek 
explained our needs in detail [1]. The rest of the thread - as far as it 
was on this list - was only about the prefix. So I can't see a negative 
reaction from infra.

Joerg

[1] http://marc.info/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=118311200008477&w=4

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>]

We also got this response:

Jeff Turner pisze:
Hi,

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 01:14:33AM +0200, Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:
> Hello,
> At Apache Cocoon development mailing list we are currently 
> discussing[1] division of Cocoon's JIRA project. There are two reasons 
> for a such move:
> 1. We are starting to release smaller parts more independently so we 
> need different version sets

I don't think splitting the COCOON project is a good idea..

 From what I see, you've arbitrarily divided Cocoon modules into areas of
functionality ("core", "database", "forms" etc) and want a separate
project for each. From a JIRA modelling POV, the only advantage of
splitting these into separate projects is so each can have their own
versions, components and release process (release notes, etc).

Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 10.07.2007 04:57, Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:
>
>> Even more, INFRA people are little unwilling to fulfil what we ask 
>> for so I think it's crucial to have a strong support from our community.
>
> Can they neglect or deny our project's needs? It's ok they put them 
> into question, but from the points you made it should be rather clear 
> we need the dividing into multiple projects. They made a point with 
> the prefix which we can address with the COCOON prefix. So should 
> there really still be any problem?
>
> Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 10.07.2007 04:57, Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:

> Even more, INFRA people are little unwilling to fulfil what we ask for 
> so I think it's crucial to have a strong support from our community.

Can they neglect or deny our project's needs? It's ok they put them into 
question, but from the points you made it should be rather clear we need 
the dividing into multiple projects. They made a point with the prefix 
which we can address with the COCOON prefix. So should there really 
still be any problem?

Joerg

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>]

Joerg Heinicke pisze:
>> As a disinterested observer, I'd note that 'C' isn't enough to
>> differentiate between Cocoon & the other existing Apache/Incubator
>> projects of Cayenne or CXF, let alone any future ones, so I'd not have
>> thought so, personally...
> 
> What's the outcome? Do we go with COCOON prefix?

Joerg, thanks for keeping interest in this affair. I must admit that I neglected the thread because I felt it was not going to end up 
successfully. Given the fact that is quite important thing for our community to divide JIRA project the feedback was rather small.

Even more, INFRA people are little unwilling to fulfil what we ask for so I think it's crucial to have a strong support from our community.

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/

Re: Division of Cocoon's JIRA project

[Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>]

What outcome? The response below was pretty much the only reply.

Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 29.06.2007 07:09, Gwyn Evans wrote:
>
>>>>> One issue, raised[2] by Joerg Heinicke is if proposed JIRA keys 
>>>>> should be
>>>>> somehow put into Cocoon context by e.g. prefixing them with 'C' 
>>>>> letter.
>>
>>> Some keys will become really long, isn't 'C' enough as a prefix?
>>
>> As a disinterested observer, I'd note that 'C' isn't enough to
>> differentiate between Cocoon & the other existing Apache/Incubator
>> projects of Cayenne or CXF, let alone any future ones, so I'd not have
>> thought so, personally...
>
> What's the outcome? Do we go with COCOON prefix?
>
> Joerg