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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by "Davidson, Glenn" <Gl...@tiaa-cref.org> on 2003/07/10 16:08:15 UTC
JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Many of us a new to Struts and have limited time to learn new technologies.
I have heard some (not a lot) of hype for Java Server Faces. Being new and
having to learn this technology what recommendation can you give? Should we
skip JSTL? Should we jump to JSF? Many of you on this list are actually
creating these new technologies and we look to you for some guidance.
Thanks
Glenn
Re: JSTL Book
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
I enjoyed Shawn's book a great deal. The writing style makes the book fun to
read, and it really is very well written, too. I learned a lot reading it.
Disclaimers:
1) I did the tech proof of this book, so I had to read it in great detail,
but it was still fun. ;-)
2) I haven't actually read any other JSTL books. (I haven't felt a need to.)
--
Martin Cooper
"Mike Duffy" <md...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20030710223949.61262.qmail@web14905.mail.yahoo.com...
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good JSTL book?
>
> __________________________________
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Re: JSTL Book
Posted by Kris Schneider <kr...@dotech.com>.
Keep in mind that I only recommend books that Craig has already
recommended. So, with that out of the way, I'd also recommend Shawn's
book. One of the reasons I spent my money on it was that Shawn was very
active on the taglibs-user list and it wasn't just to say, "Hey, if
you'd only buy my book, you'd have your answer". He obviously knew his
stuff and gave generously of his time. One other thing to consider is
that Manning offers PDF versions of many of their books for something
like $25. I haven't looked at David's book yet (maybe after Craig says
it's okay), so I can't say if I prefer one over the other.
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mark Galbreath wrote:
>
>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:14:27 -0400
>>From: Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>
>>Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>Subject: RE: JSTL Book
>>
>>Craig's recommendation notwithstanding, I think the best JSTL book on the
>>market right now is David Geary's "Core JSTL: Mastering the JSP Standard Tag
>>Library," (Sun/Prentice-Hall 2003). It is a really good read and has plenty
>>of concrete examples. And keep in mind that Craig doesn't always recommend
>>the BEST book, but the book his friends have written.
>>
>
>
> As it happens, I haven't read David's book on JSTL. I don't doubt (based
> on past results) that he did an excellent job as well -- I just cannot
> speak about it from personal experience at this point.
>
> Any belief that there is one single "best" book on any topic, that is the
> best for all users in all circumstances, would seem to me to be a little
> naive though. That's why I answered "I liked ..." instead of "the best
> book is ..." and I won't try to tell you which one is best. I also won't
> recommend a book that I *haven't* read yet.
>
> But I can see that Mark's in Friday mode already, so it's time to go back
> to not paying attention to his remarks.
>
>
>>Mark
>
>
> Craig
--
Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
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RE: JSTL Book
Posted by Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>.
Just tryin' to keep the conversation lively.... ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:52 PM
But I can see that Mark's in Friday mode already, so it's time to go back to
not paying attention to his remarks.
Craig
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RE: JSTL Book
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mark Galbreath wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:14:27 -0400
> From: Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: RE: JSTL Book
>
> Craig's recommendation notwithstanding, I think the best JSTL book on the
> market right now is David Geary's "Core JSTL: Mastering the JSP Standard Tag
> Library," (Sun/Prentice-Hall 2003). It is a really good read and has plenty
> of concrete examples. And keep in mind that Craig doesn't always recommend
> the BEST book, but the book his friends have written.
>
As it happens, I haven't read David's book on JSTL. I don't doubt (based
on past results) that he did an excellent job as well -- I just cannot
speak about it from personal experience at this point.
Any belief that there is one single "best" book on any topic, that is the
best for all users in all circumstances, would seem to me to be a little
naive though. That's why I answered "I liked ..." instead of "the best
book is ..." and I won't try to tell you which one is best. I also won't
recommend a book that I *haven't* read yet.
But I can see that Mark's in Friday mode already, so it's time to go back
to not paying attention to his remarks.
> Mark
Craig
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Re: JSTL Book
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, David Geary wrote:
>
> > And keep in mind that Craig doesn't always recommend
> > the BEST book, but the book his friends have written.
>
> I'd like to think Craig is my friend. 8-]
>
Definitely ... and I like to think it works in the the reverse direction
as well :-).
> david
Craig
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Re: JSTL Book
Posted by David Geary <sa...@earthlink.net>.
On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 17:14 America/Denver, Mark Galbreath
wrote:
> Craig's recommendation notwithstanding, I think the best JSTL book on
> the
> market right now is David Geary's "Core JSTL: Mastering the JSP
> Standard Tag
> Library," (Sun/Prentice-Hall 2003). It is a really good read and has
> plenty
> of concrete examples.
Thanks Mark. I must say Shawn's book is very good, as is Han Bergsten's
JSP book, which has thorough coverage of JSTL. Shawn and Hans are both
nice guys and sharp as razors.
I haven't read JSTL KickStart or Sue Spielman's book, which is coming
out soon.
If you want more information about Core JSTL, see www.core-jstl.com.
If you're interested in JavaServer Faces, see www.corejsf.com. Core JSF
is in the making!
> And keep in mind that Craig doesn't always recommend
> the BEST book, but the book his friends have written.
I'd like to think Craig is my friend. 8-]
david
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:43 PM
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Duffy wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Mike Duffy <md...@yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> Subject: JSTL Book
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good JSTL book?
>
> I like Shawn Bayern's book about it (JSTL in Action). Shawn did a lot
> of
> the heavy lifting on the implementation (the "standard" taglib in
> Jakarta
> Taglibs), so he definitely knows what he's talking about.
>
> Craig
>
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>
>
>
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RE: JSTL Book
Posted by Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>.
Craig's recommendation notwithstanding, I think the best JSTL book on the
market right now is David Geary's "Core JSTL: Mastering the JSP Standard Tag
Library," (Sun/Prentice-Hall 2003). It is a really good read and has plenty
of concrete examples. And keep in mind that Craig doesn't always recommend
the BEST book, but the book his friends have written.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:43 PM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Duffy wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Duffy <md...@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: JSTL Book
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good JSTL book?
I like Shawn Bayern's book about it (JSTL in Action). Shawn did a lot of
the heavy lifting on the implementation (the "standard" taglib in Jakarta
Taglibs), so he definitely knows what he's talking about.
Craig
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Re: JSTL Book
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Duffy wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Duffy <md...@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: JSTL Book
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good JSTL book?
I like Shawn Bayern's book about it (JSTL in Action). Shawn did a lot of
the heavy lifting on the implementation (the "standard" taglib in Jakarta
Taglibs), so he definitely knows what he's talking about.
Craig
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JSTL Book
Posted by Mike Duffy <md...@yahoo.com>.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good JSTL book?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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RE: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Jasnowski wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:58:31 -0400
> From: Mike Jasnowski <mj...@bea.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: RE: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
>
> Just as an additional point to this discussion, some vendors (Macromedia for
> one) seem keen on JSF. At the ServerSide Symposium in Boston this year they
> had some interesting demonstrations of J2EE apps using JSF components that
> rendered Flash grid/table type controls.
>
To say nothing of the fact that new IDE tools that will support JavaServer
Faces (from Sun and Oracle) were presented during two different general
sessions (i.e. keynotes) at JavaOne. Borland also said they planned to
include support for it.
Fortunately for Struts users, we get to take advantage of all this cool
stuff and still utilize the Struts features we know and love :-).
Craig
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RE: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Posted by Mike Jasnowski <mj...@bea.com>.
Just as an additional point to this discussion, some vendors (Macromedia for
one) seem keen on JSF. At the ServerSide Symposium in Boston this year they
had some interesting demonstrations of J2EE apps using JSF components that
rendered Flash grid/table type controls.
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:19 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Davidson, Glenn wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:08:15 -0400
> From: "Davidson, Glenn" <Gl...@tiaa-cref.org>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
>
> Many of us a new to Struts and have limited time to learn new
technologies.
> I have heard some (not a lot) of hype for Java Server Faces. Being new and
> having to learn this technology what recommendation can you give? Should
we
> skip JSTL?
No. The capabilities it provides are very powerful and useful. Learning
JSTL now also gives you exposure to the expression language capabilities
-- and when you get to JSP 2.0, you'll have the pleasant ability to use
those expressions *everywhere* in your page (even in template text), not
just in tags that understand it.
Struts includes a contributed library called struts-el which recasts some
existing Struts tags with support for EL expressions, so Struts and JSTL
work very nicely together.
If you're using JSP for your rendering technology, you definitely want to
use JSTL.
> Should we jump to JSF? Many of you on this list are actually
> creating these new technologies and we look to you for some guidance.
>
(Besides being the original developer of Struts, I am the
co-specification-lead for JavaServer Faces).
You should start learning about JavaServer Faces now, but won't be able to
actually deploy anything on it until the spec goes final (later this year)
and implementations become available.
As with JSTL, there's an opportunity to use Struts and JavaServer Faces
together, so that you can use the more powerful component tags instead of
the Struts HTML tags, but keep all your back-end Actions and form beans.
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/release/struts-faces/
> Thanks
>
> Glenn
>
>
Craig
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Re: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Davidson, Glenn wrote:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:08:15 -0400
> From: "Davidson, Glenn" <Gl...@tiaa-cref.org>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
>
> Many of us a new to Struts and have limited time to learn new technologies.
> I have heard some (not a lot) of hype for Java Server Faces. Being new and
> having to learn this technology what recommendation can you give? Should we
> skip JSTL?
No. The capabilities it provides are very powerful and useful. Learning
JSTL now also gives you exposure to the expression language capabilities
-- and when you get to JSP 2.0, you'll have the pleasant ability to use
those expressions *everywhere* in your page (even in template text), not
just in tags that understand it.
Struts includes a contributed library called struts-el which recasts some
existing Struts tags with support for EL expressions, so Struts and JSTL
work very nicely together.
If you're using JSP for your rendering technology, you definitely want to
use JSTL.
> Should we jump to JSF? Many of you on this list are actually
> creating these new technologies and we look to you for some guidance.
>
(Besides being the original developer of Struts, I am the
co-specification-lead for JavaServer Faces).
You should start learning about JavaServer Faces now, but won't be able to
actually deploy anything on it until the spec goes final (later this year)
and implementations become available.
As with JSTL, there's an opportunity to use Struts and JavaServer Faces
together, so that you can use the more powerful component tags instead of
the Struts HTML tags, but keep all your back-end Actions and form beans.
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/release/struts-faces/
> Thanks
>
> Glenn
>
>
Craig
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Re: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Davidson, Glenn" <Gl...@tiaa-cref.org> wrote:
> Many of us a new to Struts and have limited time to learn new
> technologies.
> I have heard some (not a lot) of hype for Java Server Faces. Being new
> and
> having to learn this technology what recommendation can you give? Should
> we
> skip JSTL?
JSF is not a replacement for JSTL. You should most definitely use the
JSTL tags in your app instead of Struts specific tags.
> Should we jump to JSF?
JSF hasn't been released yet so you can't jump to it just yet. I highly
recommend trying it out though.
David
> Many of you on this list are actually
> creating these new technologies and we look to you for some guidance.
>
> Thanks
>
> Glenn
>
>
__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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RE: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Posted by James Holmes <ja...@jamesholmes.com>.
JavaServer Faces is a new, emerging technology that is very promising
and Struts will likely have excellent integration as "the cards fall
into place" over the next year.
For more info on JSF you can visit my website at:
http://www.jamesholmes.com/JavaServerFaces/
I have put together an extensive listing of JavaServer Faces resources
there.
JSTL will very much be around with JSF and so you should definitely use
it whether you choose Struts or JSF.
-James
Struts Console
http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/
-----Original Message-----
From: Davidson, Glenn [mailto:Glenn.Davidson@tiaa-cref.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:08 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSTL and JSF What does the future hold?
Many of us a new to Struts and have limited time to learn new
technologies.
I have heard some (not a lot) of hype for Java Server Faces. Being new
and
having to learn this technology what recommendation can you give? Should
we
skip JSTL? Should we jump to JSF? Many of you on this list are actually
creating these new technologies and we look to you for some guidance.
Thanks
Glenn
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