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Posted to dev@airflow.apache.org by Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> on 2018/09/09 01:47:19 UTC
[VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
+1: 12 votes
- Sid Anand
- Steve Carpenter
- Beau Barker
- Marc Bollinger
- Pedro Machado
- Scott Halgrim
- Eamon Keane
- Adam Boscarino
- Daniel Cohen
- Chandu Kavar
- William Horton
- Ben Gregory
0: 2 votes
- Bolke de Bruin
- Kaxil Naik
-0.5: 1 vote
- Arthur Wiedmer
-1: 4 votes
- Shah Altaf
- James Meickle
- Ravi Kotecha
- airflowuser (??)
The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The community
has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
-s
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
I know I'm nitpicking but afaik you need 3 +1s to make the change.
However why dont you open a slack Channel and see who joins and let people
know on gitter as well that it exists?
B.
Op zo 9 sep. 2018 08:15 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> Taking Binding votes into account :
>
> +1: 1 vote
>
> - Sid Anand
>
> 0: 2 votes
>
> - Bolke de Bruin
> - Kaxil Naik
>
> -0.5: 1 vote
>
> - Arthur Wiedmer
>
>
> Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
>
> I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
>
> -s
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <ar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Sid,
> >
> > Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> >
> > PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community members
> > are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> >
> > Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to
> host
> > a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
> >
> > Best,
> > Arthur
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > >
> > > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent,
> a
> > > community-specific thing."?
> > >
> > > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
> > > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> master,
> > or
> > > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > binding/non-binding
> > > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, where
> > > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
> > along
> > > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
> > matter
> > > more here?
> > >
> > > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > >
> > > -s
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
> > > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> > > .INVALID>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your
> vote?
> > > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bdbruin@gmail.com
> >,
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please
> > > update
> > > > the
> > > > >> result accordingly.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > > > >>> - William Horton
> > > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > > > >>> - James Meickle
> > > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
> > > > community
> > > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -s
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>.
BTW.. big thanks to @Kaxil Naik <ka...@gmail.com> for deploying a
heroku app that makes automatic Slack invitations a snap :
https://apache-airflow-slack.herokuapp.com/
I'll be update the Readme.md shortly via
https://github.com/apache/incubator-airflow/pull/3878
I'll see if I can badge-ify this link!
-s
On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM Ben Gregory <be...@astronomer.io> wrote:
> Here you go Andrew --
>
> This link should work for the next 27 days:
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-airflow/shared_invite/enQtNDMxMTU3MzM1NDg4LTVkMTg3MGU5MzhhMDQ1NDNjNjgyNTQ3MjQzNjk1YmVmZWFiYWY4NjlhNDQ5MWQyNzZlYzE3NTIyMDBiYWQxNjM
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM Andrew Harmon <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace?
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the context.
> > >
> > > So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and
> > it
> > > pretty active.
> > >
> > > What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
> > > singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
> > >
> > > At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
> > > -s
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> > > > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or
> PMC
> > > > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> > > > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions
> of
> > > > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are
> > > > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> > > > majority) are up to the community to decide.
> > > >
> > > > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's
> Hadoop's:
> > > > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws
> are
> > > > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> > > > unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> > > > recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not
> > > > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the
> Incubator
> > > > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
> > > >
> > > > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are
> valid
> > > > at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them
> > > > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> > > > require the project to change them immediately.
> > > >
> > > > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> > > > concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> > > > discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official
> > > > result is up for debate.
> > > >
> > > > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> > > > or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official
> communication
> > > > medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> > > > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the
> Apache
> > > > Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> > > > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the
> > > > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> > > > the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC
> > > > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> > > > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> > > > mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> > > > model this behavior.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> > > > model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> > > > the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels
> > > > and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> > > > though.)
> > > >
> > > > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the
> > > > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> > > > what it means to an Apache project.
> > > >
> > > > -Jakob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> > > > ?
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
> > > >
> > > > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > > Taking Binding votes into account :
> > > > >
> > > > > +1: 1 vote
> > > > >
> > > > > - Sid Anand
> > > > >
> > > > > 0: 2 votes
> > > > >
> > > > > - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > > - Kaxil Naik
> > > > >
> > > > > -0.5: 1 vote
> > > > >
> > > > > - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> > > > >
> > > > > -s
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <
> > > arthur.wiedmer@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sid,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> > > > >>
> > > > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> > > > members
> > > > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide
> > to
> > > > host
> > > > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want
> > to.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best,
> > > > >> Arthur
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > > > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> > > > extent, a
> > > > >> > community-specific thing."?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a
> > contributor
> > > to
> > > > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> > > > master,
> > > > >> or
> > > > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > > > >> binding/non-binding
> > > > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect
> maintainers.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire
> community,
> > > > where
> > > > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to
> > chug
> > > > >> along
> > > > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers'
> > votes
> > > > >> matter
> > > > >> > more here?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > -s
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <
> bdbruin@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is
> tagged
> > > by,
> > > > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <
> > > scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> > > > >> > .INVALID>
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after
> your
> > > > vote?
> > > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> > > > bdbruin@gmail.com>,
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote.
> > > Please
> > > > >> > update
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > >> result accordingly.
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <
> sanand@apache.org
> > >:
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > > > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > > > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > > > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > > > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > > > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > > > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > > > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > > > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > > > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > > > >> > > >>> - William Horton
> > > > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > > > >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > > > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > > > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes
> against.
> > > The
> > > > >> > > community
> > > > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -s
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > --
> > Andrew Harmon
> > (202) 615-6433
> >
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Astronomer Logo] <https://www.astronomer.io/>
>
> *Ben Gregory*
> Data Engineer
>
> Mobile: +1-615-483-3653 • Online: astronomer.io <
> https://www.astronomer.io/>
>
> Download our new ebook. <http://marketing.astronomer.io/guide/> From
> Volume
> to Value - A Guide to Data Engineering.
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Ben Gregory <be...@astronomer.io>.
Here you go Andrew --
This link should work for the next 27 days:
https://join.slack.com/t/apache-airflow/shared_invite/enQtNDMxMTU3MzM1NDg4LTVkMTg3MGU5MzhhMDQ1NDNjNjgyNTQ3MjQzNjk1YmVmZWFiYWY4NjlhNDQ5MWQyNzZlYzE3NTIyMDBiYWQxNjM
On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM Andrew Harmon <an...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace?
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the context.
> >
> > So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and
> it
> > pretty active.
> >
> > What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
> > singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
> >
> > At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
> > -s
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> > > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC
> > > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> > > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of
> > > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are
> > > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> > > majority) are up to the community to decide.
> > >
> > > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's:
> > > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are
> > > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> > > unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> > > recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not
> > > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator
> > > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
> > >
> > > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid
> > > at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them
> > > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> > > require the project to change them immediately.
> > >
> > > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> > > concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> > > discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official
> > > result is up for debate.
> > >
> > > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> > > or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication
> > > medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> > > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache
> > > Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> > > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the
> > > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> > > the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC
> > > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> > > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> > > mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> > > model this behavior.
> > >
> > > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> > > model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> > > the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels
> > > and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> > > though.)
> > >
> > > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the
> > > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> > > what it means to an Apache project.
> > >
> > > -Jakob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> > > ?
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
> > >
> > > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > Taking Binding votes into account :
> > > >
> > > > +1: 1 vote
> > > >
> > > > - Sid Anand
> > > >
> > > > 0: 2 votes
> > > >
> > > > - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > - Kaxil Naik
> > > >
> > > > -0.5: 1 vote
> > > >
> > > > - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> > > >
> > > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> > > >
> > > > -s
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <
> > arthur.wiedmer@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Sid,
> > > >>
> > > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> > > >>
> > > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> > > members
> > > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> > > >>
> > > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide
> to
> > > host
> > > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want
> to.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >> Arthur
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> > > extent, a
> > > >> > community-specific thing."?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a
> contributor
> > to
> > > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> > > master,
> > > >> or
> > > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > > >> binding/non-binding
> > > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community,
> > > where
> > > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to
> chug
> > > >> along
> > > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers'
> votes
> > > >> matter
> > > >> > more here?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -s
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bdbruin@gmail.com
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged
> > by,
> > > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <
> > scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> > > >> > .INVALID>
> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your
> > > vote?
> > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> > > bdbruin@gmail.com>,
> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote.
> > Please
> > > >> > update
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >> result accordingly.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sanand@apache.org
> >:
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > > >> > > >>> - William Horton
> > > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > > >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against.
> > The
> > > >> > > community
> > > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> -s
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> --
> Andrew Harmon
> (202) 615-6433
>
--
[image: Astronomer Logo] <https://www.astronomer.io/>
*Ben Gregory*
Data Engineer
Mobile: +1-615-483-3653 • Online: astronomer.io <https://www.astronomer.io/>
Download our new ebook. <http://marketing.astronomer.io/guide/> From Volume
to Value - A Guide to Data Engineering.
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Andrew Harmon <an...@gmail.com>.
are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace?
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks for the context.
>
> So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and it
> pretty active.
>
> What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
> singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
>
> At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
> -s
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC
> > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of
> > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are
> > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> > majority) are up to the community to decide.
> >
> > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's:
> > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are
> > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> > unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> > recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not
> > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator
> > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
> >
> > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid
> > at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them
> > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> > require the project to change them immediately.
> >
> > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> > concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> > discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official
> > result is up for debate.
> >
> > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> > or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication
> > medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache
> > Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the
> > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> > the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC
> > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> > mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> > model this behavior.
> >
> > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> > model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> > the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels
> > and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> > though.)
> >
> > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the
> > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> > what it means to an Apache project.
> >
> > -Jakob
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> > ?
> > [2]
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
> >
> > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Taking Binding votes into account :
> > >
> > > +1: 1 vote
> > >
> > > - Sid Anand
> > >
> > > 0: 2 votes
> > >
> > > - Bolke de Bruin
> > > - Kaxil Naik
> > >
> > > -0.5: 1 vote
> > >
> > > - Arthur Wiedmer
> > >
> > >
> > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> > >
> > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> > >
> > > -s
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <
> arthur.wiedmer@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sid,
> > >>
> > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> > >>
> > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> > members
> > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> > >>
> > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to
> > host
> > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Arthur
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > >> >
> > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> > extent, a
> > >> > community-specific thing."?
> > >> >
> > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor
> to
> > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> > master,
> > >> or
> > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > >> binding/non-binding
> > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> > >> >
> > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community,
> > where
> > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
> > >> along
> > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
> > >> matter
> > >> > more here?
> > >> >
> > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > >> >
> > >> > -s
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged
> by,
> > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <
> scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> > >> > .INVALID>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your
> > vote?
> > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> > bdbruin@gmail.com>,
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote.
> Please
> > >> > update
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > >> result accordingly.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > >> > > >>> - William Horton
> > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against.
> The
> > >> > > community
> > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -s
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>
--
Andrew Harmon
(202) 615-6433
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>.
Thanks for the context.
So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and it
pretty active.
What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
-s
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC
> members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of
> sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are
> executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> majority) are up to the community to decide.
>
> The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's:
> https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are
> considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not
> separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator
> project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
>
> Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid
> at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them
> invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> require the project to change them immediately.
>
> As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official
> result is up for debate.
>
> However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication
> medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache
> Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the
> community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC
> discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> model this behavior.
>
> Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels
> and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> though.)
>
> And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the
> project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> what it means to an Apache project.
>
> -Jakob
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> ?
> [2]
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
>
> On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Taking Binding votes into account :
> >
> > +1: 1 vote
> >
> > - Sid Anand
> >
> > 0: 2 votes
> >
> > - Bolke de Bruin
> > - Kaxil Naik
> >
> > -0.5: 1 vote
> >
> > - Arthur Wiedmer
> >
> >
> > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> >
> > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> >
> > -s
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <arthur.wiedmer@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Sid,
> >>
> >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> >>
> >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> members
> >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> >>
> >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to
> host
> >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Arthur
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> >> >
> >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> extent, a
> >> > community-specific thing."?
> >> >
> >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
> >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> master,
> >> or
> >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> >> binding/non-binding
> >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> >> >
> >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community,
> where
> >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
> >> along
> >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
> >> matter
> >> > more here?
> >> >
> >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> >> >
> >> > -s
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
> >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> >> > >
> >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > >
> >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> >> > .INVALID>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your
> vote?
> >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> bdbruin@gmail.com>,
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please
> >> > update
> >> > > the
> >> > > >> result accordingly.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> >> > > >>> - William Horton
> >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
> >> > > community
> >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> -s
> >> > > >>>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com>.
So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC
members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of
sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are
executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
majority) are up to the community to decide.
The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's:
https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are
considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally
recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not
separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator
project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid
at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them
invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
require the project to change them immediately.
As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official
result is up for debate.
However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication
medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on
the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache
Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the
community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC
discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
model this behavior.
Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was
the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels
and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
though.)
And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the
project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
what it means to an Apache project.
-Jakob
[1] https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects?
[2] https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Taking Binding votes into account :
>
> +1: 1 vote
>
> - Sid Anand
>
> 0: 2 votes
>
> - Bolke de Bruin
> - Kaxil Naik
>
> -0.5: 1 vote
>
> - Arthur Wiedmer
>
>
> Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
>
> I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
>
> -s
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <ar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sid,
>>
>> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
>>
>> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community members
>> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
>>
>> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to host
>> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arthur
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
>> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
>> >
>> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent, a
>> > community-specific thing."?
>> >
>> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
>> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to master,
>> or
>> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
>> binding/non-binding
>> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
>> >
>> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, where
>> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
>> along
>> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
>> matter
>> > more here?
>> >
>> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
>> >
>> > -s
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
>> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > >
>> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halgrim@zapier.com
>> > .INVALID>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
>> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>,
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please
>> > update
>> > > the
>> > > >> result accordingly.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> - Sid Anand
>> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
>> > > >>> - Beau Barker
>> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
>> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
>> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
>> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
>> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
>> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
>> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
>> > > >>> - William Horton
>> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
>> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
>> > > >>> - James Meickle
>> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
>> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
>> > > community
>> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> -s
>> > > >>>
>> > >
>> >
>>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>.
Taking Binding votes into account :
+1: 1 vote
- Sid Anand
0: 2 votes
- Bolke de Bruin
- Kaxil Naik
-0.5: 1 vote
- Arthur Wiedmer
Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
-s
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <ar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Sid,
>
> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
>
> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community members
> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
>
> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to host
> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
>
> Best,
> Arthur
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> >
> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent, a
> > community-specific thing."?
> >
> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to master,
> or
> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> binding/non-binding
> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> >
> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, where
> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
> along
> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
> matter
> > more here?
> >
> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> >
> > -s
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> > .INVALID>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>,
> > > wrote:
> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please
> > update
> > > the
> > > >> result accordingly.
> > > >>
> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> > > >>
> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > > >>> - William Horton
> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
> > > community
> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -s
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Arthur Wiedmer <ar...@gmail.com>.
Sid,
Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community members
are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to host
a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
Best,
Arthur
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
>
> Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent, a
> community-specific thing."?
>
> For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
> committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to master, or
> voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the binding/non-binding
> protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
>
> My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, where
> some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug along
> without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes matter
> more here?
>
> Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
>
> -s
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
> > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halgrim@zapier.com
> .INVALID>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
> > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>,
> > wrote:
> > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please
> update
> > the
> > >> result accordingly.
> > >>
> > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> > >>
> > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > >>>
> > >>> - Sid Anand
> > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > >>> - Beau Barker
> > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > >>> - William Horton
> > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > >>>
> > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > >>>
> > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > >>>
> > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > >>>
> > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > >>>
> > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > >>> - James Meickle
> > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > >>>
> > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
> > community
> > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > >>>
> > >>> -s
> > >>>
> >
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>.
Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent, a
community-specific thing."?
For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to
committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to master, or
voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the binding/non-binding
protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, where
some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug along
without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes matter
more here?
Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
-s
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by,
> indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <sc...@zapier.com.INVALID>
> wrote:
> >
> > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
> >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>,
> wrote:
> >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please update
> the
> >> result accordingly.
> >>
> >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> >>
> >>> +1: 12 votes
> >>>
> >>> - Sid Anand
> >>> - Steve Carpenter
> >>> - Beau Barker
> >>> - Marc Bollinger
> >>> - Pedro Machado
> >>> - Scott Halgrim
> >>> - Eamon Keane
> >>> - Adam Boscarino
> >>> - Daniel Cohen
> >>> - Chandu Kavar
> >>> - William Horton
> >>> - Ben Gregory
> >>>
> >>> 0: 2 votes
> >>>
> >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> >>> - Kaxil Naik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> >>>
> >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> >>>
> >>> -1: 4 votes
> >>>
> >>> - Shah Altaf
> >>> - James Meickle
> >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> >>> - airflowuser (??)
> >>>
> >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The
> community
> >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> >>>
> >>> -s
> >>>
>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by, indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <sc...@zapier.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
>> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>, wrote:
>> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please update the
>> result accordingly.
>>
>> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
>>
>>
>>
>> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
>>
>>> +1: 12 votes
>>>
>>> - Sid Anand
>>> - Steve Carpenter
>>> - Beau Barker
>>> - Marc Bollinger
>>> - Pedro Machado
>>> - Scott Halgrim
>>> - Eamon Keane
>>> - Adam Boscarino
>>> - Daniel Cohen
>>> - Chandu Kavar
>>> - William Horton
>>> - Ben Gregory
>>>
>>> 0: 2 votes
>>>
>>> - Bolke de Bruin
>>> - Kaxil Naik
>>>
>>>
>>> -0.5: 1 vote
>>>
>>> - Arthur Wiedmer
>>>
>>> -1: 4 votes
>>>
>>> - Shah Altaf
>>> - James Meickle
>>> - Ravi Kotecha
>>> - airflowuser (??)
>>>
>>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The community
>>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
>>>
>>> -s
>>>
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Scott Halgrim <sc...@zapier.com.INVALID>.
What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your vote?
On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>, wrote:
> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please update the
> result accordingly.
>
> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
>
>
>
> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
>
> > +1: 12 votes
> >
> > - Sid Anand
> > - Steve Carpenter
> > - Beau Barker
> > - Marc Bollinger
> > - Pedro Machado
> > - Scott Halgrim
> > - Eamon Keane
> > - Adam Boscarino
> > - Daniel Cohen
> > - Chandu Kavar
> > - William Horton
> > - Ben Gregory
> >
> > 0: 2 votes
> >
> > - Bolke de Bruin
> > - Kaxil Naik
> >
> >
> > -0.5: 1 vote
> >
> > - Arthur Wiedmer
> >
> > -1: 4 votes
> >
> > - Shah Altaf
> > - James Meickle
> > - Ravi Kotecha
> > - airflowuser (??)
> >
> > The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The community
> > has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> >
> > -s
> >
Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please update the
result accordingly.
Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sa...@apache.org>:
> +1: 12 votes
>
> - Sid Anand
> - Steve Carpenter
> - Beau Barker
> - Marc Bollinger
> - Pedro Machado
> - Scott Halgrim
> - Eamon Keane
> - Adam Boscarino
> - Daniel Cohen
> - Chandu Kavar
> - William Horton
> - Ben Gregory
>
> 0: 2 votes
>
> - Bolke de Bruin
> - Kaxil Naik
>
>
> -0.5: 1 vote
>
> - Arthur Wiedmer
>
> -1: 4 votes
>
> - Shah Altaf
> - James Meickle
> - Ravi Kotecha
> - airflowuser (??)
>
> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The community
> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
>
> -s
>