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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> on 2011/07/07 17:44:33 UTC
Regarding the PPMC's Private List
We've received some criticism from our Mentors for using the private
list too eagerly. I'm certainly guilty in that. I think the key
thing is that the private list is for discussing matters that require
privacy, but that this does not include discussing procedures around
privacy and confidentiality in general. This this message is, and
should be, on the public list.
I'd like to make two proposals:
1) I'm going to add an FAQ item on the PPMC FAQ's section of the
website, on the proper use of the ooo-private list. I'll invite you
all to review and improve it.
2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
private list because this is account request email contains a members
personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
-Rob
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Jul 7, 2011 11:45 AM, "Rob Weir" <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> We've received some criticism from our Mentors for using the private
> list too eagerly. I'm certainly guilty in that. I think the key
> thing is that the private list is for discussing matters that require
> privacy, but that this does not include discussing procedures around
> privacy and confidentiality in general. This this message is, and
> should be, on the public list.
>
> I'd like to make two proposals:
>
> 1) I'm going to add an FAQ item on the PPMC FAQ's section of the
> website, on the proper use of the ooo-private list. I'll invite you
> all to review and improve it.
>
> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
> private list because this is account request email contains a members
> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
> -Rob
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 13:16:39 -0400:
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> > Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 11:44:33 -0400:
> >> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
> >> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
> >> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
> >> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
> >> private list because this is account request email contains a members
> >> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
> >> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
> >> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
> >
> > Counterproposal:
> >
> > People send to ooo-private@ when they judge that appropriate, without
> > long monologues explaining their judgement. If someone thinks they're
> > wrong they ask them to explain why they used that list.
> >
>
> No one is proposing a long monologue. In fact the suggested statement
> would be much shorter than your response here. Or mine.
>
And I'm proposing to eliminate even that.
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 11:44:33 -0400:
>> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
>> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
>> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
>> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
>> private list because this is account request email contains a members
>> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
>> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
>> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
>
> Counterproposal:
>
> People send to ooo-private@ when they judge that appropriate, without
> long monologues explaining their judgement. If someone thinks they're
> wrong they ask them to explain why they used that list.
>
No one is proposing a long monologue. In fact the suggested statement
would be much shorter than your response here. Or mine.
>
> Pretty much how it went so far.
>
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 11:44:33 -0400:
> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
> private list because this is account request email contains a members
> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
Counterproposal:
People send to ooo-private@ when they judge that appropriate, without
long monologues explaining their judgement. If someone thinks they're
wrong they ask them to explain why they used that list.
Pretty much how it went so far.
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 07/07/2011 05:44 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> We've received some criticism from our Mentors for using the private
> list too eagerly. I'm certainly guilty in that. I think the key
> thing is that the private list is for discussing matters that require
> privacy, but that this does not include discussing procedures around
> privacy and confidentiality in general. This this message is, and
> should be, on the public list.
>
> I'd like to make two proposals:
>
> 1) I'm going to add an FAQ item on the PPMC FAQ's section of the
> website, on the proper use of the ooo-private list. I'll invite you
> all to review and improve it.
+1
> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
> private list because this is account request email contains a members
> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
... and before clicking the "Send" button the sender itself has a last
chance to see if the private list really appropriate.
Marcus
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Hopefully we've discussed this enough this week that people will start
to learn the rule of "it should always be on the dev@ list unless
there's a specific reason to use the private@ list", and that will be
sufficient for the time being.
On 7/7/2011 2:01 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton<or...@apache.org> wrote:
>> -1 on that part. Please God, treat us like adults here.
>>
>
> The analogy I had in mind was to official government committees and
> boards in my state, where they are required to conduct their business
> in public. But they have the ability to enter a private "executive
> session". But before they may do so they must first state the reason
> why they are doing so, and that reason must be taken from a list of
> pre-defined statutory exceptions, for example, when dealing with
> personnel matters. This helps prevent misuse of executive session.
>
> Although there are exceptions, most elected officials in Massachusetts
> behave like adults, even when they need to declare why they are
> conducting business in private.
Wow - where in MA do you live? ;-> Sure, we have a number of great
elected officials in my home town, but we also have a few doozies as
well who don't always behave that well! One of our boards simply uses
the same exact explanation of 5 different reasons every time - and the
chair used to be a *really* fast talker, so it always sounded like the
old Federal Express commercials.
- Shane
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rabastus@gmail.com [mailto:rabastus@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rob Weir
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 08:45
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
>> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
>> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
>> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
>> private list because this is account request email contains a members
>> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
>> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
>> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
>> -Rob
>>
>>
Re: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <or...@apache.org> wrote:
> -1 on that part. Please God, treat us like adults here.
>
The analogy I had in mind was to official government committees and
boards in my state, where they are required to conduct their business
in public. But they have the ability to enter a private "executive
session". But before they may do so they must first state the reason
why they are doing so, and that reason must be taken from a list of
pre-defined statutory exceptions, for example, when dealing with
personnel matters. This helps prevent misuse of executive session.
Although there are exceptions, most elected officials in Massachusetts
behave like adults, even when they need to declare why they are
conducting business in private.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rabastus@gmail.com [mailto:rabastus@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rob Weir
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 08:45
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
>
> [ ... ]
>
> 2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
> is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
> ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
> private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
> private list because this is account request email contains a members
> personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
> reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
> of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
> -Rob
>
>
RE: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
-1 on that part. Please God, treat us like adults here.
-----Original Message-----
From: rabastus@gmail.com [mailto:rabastus@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rob Weir
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 08:45
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Regarding the PPMC's Private List
[ ... ]
2) I wonder whether it would be a good idea, at least while the PPMC
is still growing and we're getting up to speed, for all notes to the
ooo-private list to be prefaced by a sentence explaining why the
private list is needed for that message. For example, "I am using the
private list because this is account request email contains a members
personal email address". Thinking out loud like this could help
reinforce the proper use of that list, and would also make the reasons
of any mistaken uses more obvious and correctable.
-Rob