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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> on 2015/01/01 22:57:16 UTC
Nominations for a new PMC Chair
As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair
that can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course
continue with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when
applicable. We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January
Board report, but it's good to start moving.
Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
nominations.
My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in
OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee
and the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly
report https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports
2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure
that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow
smoothly. There is no concept of "leader" in the Apache way.
3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the
Chair is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups.
So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about
eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they
can be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be
OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to
have a good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again,
not mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice
committers: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 6 Jan 2015, at 05:47, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I hereby nominate
>
> Jürgen Schmidt (jsc)
> He has been involved in every major openoffice development for a decade or
> more.
> He was my mentor when I joined AOO, and without his mentoring I would not
> have been here.
> Jürgen has been involved in all aspects of openoffice and later Apache
> OpenOffice including being release
> manager for several releases.
> His will to help shape the future of AOO is to be seen in most of his mails.
>
>
> Louis Suarez-Potts.
> Louis has been involved in openoffice forever.
> Before openoffice became AOO, he was deeply involved in community building,
> something a chair should focus on.
> Louis has not been so active lately, but I have no doubt that the future of
> AOO (and opensource in general) is a major driving force for him.
Thanks; I accept the nomination. Indeed, I’ve been quiet and less active of late. Various reasons, not least of them being that AOO is it’s own thing, albeit there remain, for good and ill, echoes of its earlier stage, and I, perhaps like others, wanted to get a good to get a sense of where we are—and who we are and want to be. I have no simple answers. But I think our challenges (and opportunities) are new, interesting, and compelling.
Note, I also think that both Juergen, whom I’ve known for over ten years and for whom my respect as a developer who has some rather good ideas, and Jan, whom I’ve known for less time but also deeply respect, would make fine choices. For me, the issue is engaging the resources (you know, “community”) to move ahead not in a rut (or rout) but in a way that both satisfies the vast numbers of people (including legacy government institutions) and also does something new.
More of course will be written. But this is not a campaign statement opportunity. (When I was the chair of the old Community Council, for OpenOffice.org, I deprecated campaign statements as such, arguing that if the community were ignorant of the candidate and her work, then that spoke volumes.)
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
louis
>
>
> On 3 January 2015 at 13:37, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 02/01/2015 Michal Hriň wrote:
>>
>>> So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
>>>
>>
>> This is indeed the aim of this phase (until 10 January): nominating people
>> and knowing if they are available for election. The actual vote will happen
>> later. All people named so far would be good candidates, as well as a few
>> others who haven't been mentioned yet.
>>
>> I'm nominating Jan Iversen (jani). Reasons:
>> - He is active in both OpenOffice and Apache, and thus he can be a perfect
>> interface between OpenOffice and the Foundation at large
>> - He is energetic, visionary and pragmatic
>> - He is a committer in many key projects of the Foundation
>> http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani including
>> Infrastructure and Corinthia that are connected to OpenOffice in some way
>> - He regularly attends and organizes conferences and events
>> - He is a Member of the Foundation
>>
>> Technically, Jan is an emeritus OpenOffice PMC member but as I explained
>> this is not an issue: the vote for electing the new Chair can take care of
>> this detail (i.e., moving him from emeritus to active) too.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
I hereby nominate
Jürgen Schmidt (jsc)
He has been involved in every major openoffice development for a decade or
more.
He was my mentor when I joined AOO, and without his mentoring I would not
have been here.
Jürgen has been involved in all aspects of openoffice and later Apache
OpenOffice including being release
manager for several releases.
His will to help shape the future of AOO is to be seen in most of his mails.
Louis Suarez-Potts.
Louis has been involved in openoffice forever.
Before openoffice became AOO, he was deeply involved in community building,
something a chair should focus on.
Louis has not been so active lately, but I have no doubt that the future of
AOO (and opensource in general) is a major driving force for him.
rgds
jan I.
On 3 January 2015 at 13:37, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 02/01/2015 Michal Hriň wrote:
>
>> So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
>>
>
> This is indeed the aim of this phase (until 10 January): nominating people
> and knowing if they are available for election. The actual vote will happen
> later. All people named so far would be good candidates, as well as a few
> others who haven't been mentioned yet.
>
> I'm nominating Jan Iversen (jani). Reasons:
> - He is active in both OpenOffice and Apache, and thus he can be a perfect
> interface between OpenOffice and the Foundation at large
> - He is energetic, visionary and pragmatic
> - He is a committer in many key projects of the Foundation
> http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani including
> Infrastructure and Corinthia that are connected to OpenOffice in some way
> - He regularly attends and organizes conferences and events
> - He is a Member of the Foundation
>
> Technically, Jan is an emeritus OpenOffice PMC member but as I explained
> this is not an issue: the vote for electing the new Chair can take care of
> this detail (i.e., moving him from emeritus to active) too.
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 02/01/2015 Michal Hriň wrote:
> So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
This is indeed the aim of this phase (until 10 January): nominating
people and knowing if they are available for election. The actual vote
will happen later. All people named so far would be good candidates, as
well as a few others who haven't been mentioned yet.
I'm nominating Jan Iversen (jani). Reasons:
- He is active in both OpenOffice and Apache, and thus he can be a
perfect interface between OpenOffice and the Foundation at large
- He is energetic, visionary and pragmatic
- He is a committer in many key projects of the Foundation
http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani including
Infrastructure and Corinthia that are connected to OpenOffice in some way
- He regularly attends and organizes conferences and events
- He is a Member of the Foundation
Technically, Jan is an emeritus OpenOffice PMC member but as I explained
this is not an issue: the vote for electing the new Chair can take care
of this detail (i.e., moving him from emeritus to active) too.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Michal Hriň <hr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Dňa 01.01.2015 o 23:16 jan i napísal(a):
>
> On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that
>>> can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue
>>> with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when
>>> applicable.
>>> We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report,
>>> but
>>> it's good to start moving.
>>>
>>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>>> nominations.
>>>
>>> My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in
>>> OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee
>>> and
>>> the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly
>>> report
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports
>>>
>>> 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure
>>> that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow
>>> smoothly. There is no concept of "leader" in the Apache way.
>>>
>>> 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair
>>> is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups.
>>>
>>>
>> You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws.
>> But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule.... the chair is
>> normally also quite active..
>>
>> In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the
>> chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative.
>>
>> You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the
>> PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in
>> reactivating the PMC.
>>
>> I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is
>> active.
>>
>> Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already
>> correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should
>> always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help
>> solve conflicts....of course if the PMC group is active, this is not a
>> problem.....and most importantly that person should having the backing of
>> the PMC group.
>>
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
> OK, we know what are duties of PMC Chair.
> Both of you didn't get out a names of candidates. Probably, I know your
> view, but please, put it here.
>
> So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
>
> Rob Weir
> Marcus Lange
> Key Schenk
>
> This are I thing object reasons, looking on activity on mailing lists (dev
> && l10n && commits) for last year and for a time after last release.
>
> This is not my finite vote. I will wait for others nominations.
>
> And don't to forget, named people, express your opinion here, if you want,
> are willing and able to do this.
>
> Regards,
> Michal Hriň
I am nominating Rob Weir .
Reasons --
* active in both OpenOffice and ODF
* one of the initial proposers/committers to establish OpenOffice at Apache
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal
* years of experience in the OpenOffice derivative, Symphony
* demonstrated leadership in this project
* participates and attends open source and OpenOffice events
* recently appointed member of the Apache Software Foundation --
http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2014/board_minutes_2014_07_16.txt
>
>
>
>>> So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about
>>> eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they
>>> can
>>> be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be
>>> OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to
>>> have a
>>> good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not
>>> mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers:
>>> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"There's a bit of magic in everything,
and some loss to even things out."
-- Lou Reed
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 2 January 2015 at 15:37, Michal Hriň <hr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Dňa 01.01.2015 o 23:16 jan i napísal(a):
>
> On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that
>>> can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue
>>> with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when
>>> applicable.
>>> We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report,
>>> but
>>> it's good to start moving.
>>>
>>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>>> nominations.
>>>
>>> My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in
>>> OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee
>>> and
>>> the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly
>>> report
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports
>>>
>>> 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure
>>> that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow
>>> smoothly. There is no concept of "leader" in the Apache way.
>>>
>>> 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair
>>> is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups.
>>>
>>>
>> You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws.
>> But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule.... the chair is
>> normally also quite active..
>>
>> In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the
>> chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative.
>>
>> You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the
>> PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in
>> reactivating the PMC.
>>
>> I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is
>> active.
>>
>> Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already
>> correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should
>> always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help
>> solve conflicts....of course if the PMC group is active, this is not a
>> problem.....and most importantly that person should having the backing of
>> the PMC group.
>>
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
> OK, we know what are duties of PMC Chair.
> Both of you didn't get out a names of candidates. Probably, I know your
> view, but please, put it here.
>
@Michael, I did not put any names here, because I do not have any names, I
resigned from the PMC in 2014 mainly because felt a strong disagreement
with the rest of the PMC, about where we are, and how we give the project
more momentum.
> So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
>
> Rob Weir
> Marcus Lange
> Key Schenk
> This are I thing object reasons, looking on activity on mailing lists (dev
> && l10n && commits) for last year and for a time after last release.
>
> This is not my finite vote. I will wait for others nominations.
>
Voting comes after end of nominations.
>
> And don't to forget, named people, express your opinion here, if you want,
> are willing and able to do this.
>
+1.
rgds
jan i
>
> Regards,
> Michal Hriň
>
>
>
>
>>> So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about
>>> eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they
>>> can
>>> be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be
>>> OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to
>>> have a
>>> good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not
>>> mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers:
>>> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Michal Hriň <hr...@apache.org>.
Dňa 01.01.2015 o 23:16 jan i napísal(a):
> On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that
>> can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue
>> with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable.
>> We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but
>> it's good to start moving.
>>
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>>
>> My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in
>> OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and
>> the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports
>>
>> 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure
>> that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow
>> smoothly. There is no concept of "leader" in the Apache way.
>>
>> 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair
>> is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups.
>>
>
> You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws.
> But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule.... the chair is
> normally also quite active..
>
> In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the
> chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative.
>
> You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the
> PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in
> reactivating the PMC.
>
> I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is
> active.
>
> Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already
> correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should
> always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help
> solve conflicts....of course if the PMC group is active, this is not a
> problem.....and most importantly that person should having the backing of
> the PMC group.
>
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
OK, we know what are duties of PMC Chair.
Both of you didn't get out a names of candidates. Probably, I know your
view, but please, put it here.
So here I chose some people, to make this election easier.
Rob Weir
Marcus Lange
Key Schenk
This are I thing object reasons, looking on activity on mailing lists
(dev && l10n && commits) for last year and for a time after last release.
This is not my finite vote. I will wait for others nominations.
And don't to forget, named people, express your opinion here, if you
want, are willing and able to do this.
Regards,
Michal Hriň
>>
>> So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about
>> eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can
>> be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be
>> OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a
>> good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not
>> mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers:
>> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that
> can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue
> with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable.
> We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but
> it's good to start moving.
>
> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
> nominations.
>
> My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in
> OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and
> the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports
>
> 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure
> that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow
> smoothly. There is no concept of "leader" in the Apache way.
>
> 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair
> is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups.
>
You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws.
But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule.... the chair is
normally also quite active..
In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the
chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative.
You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the
PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in
reactivating the PMC.
I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is
active.
Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already
correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should
always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help
solve conflicts....of course if the PMC group is active, this is not a
problem.....and most importantly that person should having the backing of
the PMC group.
rgds
jan I.
>
> So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about
> eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can
> be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be
> OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a
> good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not
> mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers:
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 06/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. ...
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
The nominations phase closed on 10 January with two candidates accepting:
- jani Jan Iversen http://markmail.org/message/bm5uhoa3r24flvf5
- louis Louis Suarez-Potts http://markmail.org/message/vj4cdqjx2kpd2muy
I'm not calling a vote now since the discussion is faster than me and
it's continuing, as we have seen. So we can keep the discussion open for
a few days; a vote will be called after it.
A very important remark: all the six people above (and a couple more)
would have been excellent candidates. I respect their choices and their
reasons not to run, but I would like to acknowledge all of them (and the
"couple more people" that I'm leaving unnamed) as key people to the
continued success of the project.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 7 January 2015 at 09:11, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 06/01/2015 Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>> Have we discussed Voting if there are multiple candidates?
>>
>
> Yes, we did. I'm not going to let procedural discussions prevail, but as
> it (too) often happens we can discuss it again. In this case it's worth it.
>
> Perhaps Apache STeVe is an answer: http://steve.apache.org/
>>
>
> What I proposed (see archives) is to have a simple, fully public, vote at
> the first round, then, unless someone gets to 50%, remove the last
> candidate, ask others whether they wanted to run again and iterate (for 1-2
> rounds likely).
>
> I agree STV is technically better since it can yield the same results and
> save some time. I strongly oppose secret voting since we never had it, and
> we used public voting, back at the time, both for selecting the PMC members
> and for voting for the Chair.
>
+1 We do NOT want secret voting.
>
> So, even if this takes a significant additional effort on my side, I
> volunteer to manage the following process if we have 3 or more candidates:
> 1) People vote on this mailing list; everyone simply lists his acceptable
> candidates (one or more) in order of preference.
>
You write it correctly, but based on my experience....it is good to stress:
Do not list candidates you dont like.
> 2) I compute STV, for binding votes only, on the above votes.
>
I helped a year ago (together with a second person) with the election of a
chair in another project, and downloaded the STeVe tool which was used to
manually feed in the mail votes that eased the process quite a bit.
I think providing a simple sum for non-binding votes is ok, hopefully that
shows the same direction as the binding votes....in case of big differences
it might be worth while to try and understand the difference.
> If candidates are 1 or 2, we use a simple vote instead.
>
+1
>
> I'm proposing this for lazy consensus again. If you have other proposals,
> speak up; but I'm confident that the above can accommodate all concerns and
> this election is not complex enough for the voting system to really make a
> difference.
+1
rgds
jan i.
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 07/01/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Can you explain "STV" please. (What do the letters mean?)
Single Transferable Vote. To our purposes, in our very simple election,
this is a single-turn replacement for the mechanism I originally
proposed (i.e., remove the least voted candidate at each round).
> Are folks required to rank all of the candidates in their ballots?
No.
Seen from a voter's perspective this means: choose the subset of
candidates that are acceptable to you, then rank them. If you only like
one candidate, you obviously write his/her name only; if you like more
than one, list the ones you like in order of preference, starting with
the one you like most.
Regards,
Andrea.
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RE: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Can you explain "STV" please. (What do the letters mean?)
Are folks required to rank all of the candidates in their ballots?
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 00:12
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
On 06/01/2015 Dave Fisher wrote:
> Have we discussed Voting if there are multiple candidates?
Yes, we did. I'm not going to let procedural discussions prevail, but as
it (too) often happens we can discuss it again. In this case it's worth it.
> Perhaps Apache STeVe is an answer: http://steve.apache.org/
What I proposed (see archives) is to have a simple, fully public, vote
at the first round, then, unless someone gets to 50%, remove the last
candidate, ask others whether they wanted to run again and iterate (for
1-2 rounds likely).
I agree STV is technically better since it can yield the same results
and save some time. I strongly oppose secret voting since we never had
it, and we used public voting, back at the time, both for selecting the
PMC members and for voting for the Chair.
So, even if this takes a significant additional effort on my side, I
volunteer to manage the following process if we have 3 or more candidates:
1) People vote on this mailing list; everyone simply lists his
acceptable candidates (one or more) in order of preference.
2) I compute STV, for binding votes only, on the above votes.
If candidates are 1 or 2, we use a simple vote instead.
I'm proposing this for lazy consensus again. If you have other
proposals, speak up; but I'm confident that the above can accommodate
all concerns and this election is not complex enough for the voting
system to really make a difference.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 06/01/2015 Dave Fisher wrote:
> Have we discussed Voting if there are multiple candidates?
Yes, we did. I'm not going to let procedural discussions prevail, but as
it (too) often happens we can discuss it again. In this case it's worth it.
> Perhaps Apache STeVe is an answer: http://steve.apache.org/
What I proposed (see archives) is to have a simple, fully public, vote
at the first round, then, unless someone gets to 50%, remove the last
candidate, ask others whether they wanted to run again and iterate (for
1-2 rounds likely).
I agree STV is technically better since it can yield the same results
and save some time. I strongly oppose secret voting since we never had
it, and we used public voting, back at the time, both for selecting the
PMC members and for voting for the Chair.
So, even if this takes a significant additional effort on my side, I
volunteer to manage the following process if we have 3 or more candidates:
1) People vote on this mailing list; everyone simply lists his
acceptable candidates (one or more) in order of preference.
2) I compute STV, for binding votes only, on the above votes.
If candidates are 1 or 2, we use a simple vote instead.
I'm proposing this for lazy consensus again. If you have other
proposals, speak up; but I'm confident that the above can accommodate
all concerns and this election is not complex enough for the voting
system to really make a difference.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Have we discussed Voting if there are multiple candidates?
>
> Perhaps Apache STeVe is an answer: http://steve.apache.org/
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/general/BoardVoting
using STeVe is a good idea, a lot better than simple voting. I am not sure
though if the tool can handle binding / non-binding votes.
I am also the strong opinion that if number 1 and 2 are close (less than 3
votes apart), then we should vote again just with the top candidates. A
chair need backing from the whole community not just a simple majority.
rgds
jan i
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Jan 6, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>
> > On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
> >> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
> >> nominations.
> >
> > We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be
> excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse
> the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but
> if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a
> statement by 10 January too.
> >
> > Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> public and state very briefly:
> >
> > 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
> but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
> >
> > 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
> >
> > 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of
> whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates
> wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good,
> since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For
> example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information
> about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone
> commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then
> reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done
> so far.
> >
> > The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> > - jani Jan Iversen
> > - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> > - kschenk Kay Schenk
> > - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> > - marcus Marcus Lange
> > - robweir Rob Weir
> >
> > I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide
> their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are
> free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrea.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> <javascript:;>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> <javascript:;>
> >
>
>
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Voting if More Than One Accepted Nomination for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Have we discussed Voting if there are multiple candidates?
Perhaps Apache STeVe is an answer: http://steve.apache.org/
https://wiki.apache.org/general/BoardVoting
Regards,
Dave
On Jan 6, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>
> We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too.
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly:
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far.
>
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
Hi
Yes I am available for election excellent chair and helped make the
transition to apache go smoothly, now its time we focus on outfacing
matters.
I am (again) managing our servers as well as pootle. I am planning some
major changes in the server setup to make maintenance semi-automatic. I
have supervised student projects that defined how our build system and
translation work flow could be stream lined.
I was and am helping with apacheCON, infra, incubator and other foundation
projects as well as give talks on events like FOSDEM. I believe ASF has a
lot more to offer than similar foundations and believe AOO can gain a lot
from that. I am also involved heavily in the new incubator project
Corinthia which aim at developing a responsive design office document
editor for mobile devices.
When I look at the other nominees they are all far more experienced and
dedicated to openOffice than I am. My force is not to have the long
openoffice history but a fresh view and therefore often different.
The formal role as chair is simple and merely administrative. My main
effort will, as PMC, be to push hard for action and changes...we have too
many good discussions that result in nothing....we need to stop talking and
start doing. Discussions are good for the community as long as they lead
somewhere. We are all too often confirming each other how well things are
and thus refraining from making changes.
The whole openoffice eco system, not just AOO, lack resources. The
eco-system is no longer in a situation where we can afford to compete and
still survive, we need to cooperate across projects. I believe being
totally open is the right way (independent of who reads our mailing lists)
and use it as an invitation to cooperate. I will work for more cooperation
with other openoffice projects and know we will need to accept significant
changes to accomplish this goal.
I am result oriented, so I will, as an example, push hard for a digital
signed windows release instead of waiting for buildbot and other
obstacles... showing results however small is one method to add energy to
our community and in my opinion a lot better than waiting and keep talking.
We need a far more active community.
A big part of the PMC is not visible in the project. I believe we should
try over a couple of months to reactivate the PMC members, and at the end
reduce our PMC to the active (hopefully everybody) members. I did that with
success in another project, and have since seen famous project like httpd
do the same. In my view it is better to have a smaller but active PMC, than
having a big partly inactive PMC.
I resigned as PMC because the above opinions (or at least my way of
presenting them), was not accepted or downright rejected. Voting me back
signals acceptance and/or willingness to change (of course we need to have
consensus on how to implement the changes). If we are to continue our
present line or only make slight adjustments, I am wrong for the job...in
that case my presence will only cause heated discussion (like when I was
PMC).
I am aware the above is quite a mouthful to lift, so this can only be done
with a PMC and Community that see the same goals. We all need to put in a
share of work, I can only help streamline the work.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
rgds
jan i
On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>>
>
> We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent
> choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the
> nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if
> you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a
> statement by 10 January too.
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> public and state very briefly:
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
> but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether
> one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to
> take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the
> project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar
> often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum
> (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a
> certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a
> team work and can be much better than what we have done so far.
>
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their
> statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to
> expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 01/06/2015 10:33 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>
> We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be
> excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or
> refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still
> open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail
> and ask for a statement by 10 January too.
As flattered as I am by this nomination, I feel I must refuse it.
In an administrative sense, I would probably be a good chair, but at the
current time, I think OpenOffice needs more than this from a chairperson.
So, thanks Michal for your nomination, but I don't feel I'm the right fit.
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> public and state very briefly:
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
> but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of
> whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates
> wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good,
> since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For
> example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information
> about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone
> commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then
> reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have
> done so far.
I would be more than happy to participate in this fashion in whatever
area is most needed. In the past I participated in board reporting, but
I could certainly do other things as needed.
>
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide
> their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement
> are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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and some loss to even things out."
-- Lou Reed
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 01/12/2015 03:32 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 12/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>> I think both are close to each other as both
>> want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and
>> to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing
>> more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both
>> ideas we need to improve the community and its work.
>> So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair?
>
> This is not a crazy idea at all. I mean, I'm certain that both will
> help, and that I will help actively too, and you Marcus, and all other
> active people, each in their favorite area. We will obviously need to
> elect one Chair, but this leaves unchanged opportunities for the others
> to help.
>
> The solution to what clearly is an issue (i.e., our PMC members listed
> at http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc
> are not very active or very coordinated on average) can be different.
> Louis wrote about "facilitation", Jan wrote about "action", and these
> are two different ways to address the issue.
>
> One very clear thing is that the PMC will no longer be passively
> watching the others work, in any case. So guys, be prepared to have to
> be active! Would you work better with a certain candidate than with
> another one? Do you prefer a certain style? Please use this discussion
> to briefly state and exchange your views, and then we will move to voting.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
I don't know how PMCs in other projects operate. I only know OpenOffice
because that's all I have time for. Andrea might actually be more of a
"do-er" chair than most. He does development, he does translation, he
attends many events, etc.
I have not actually tallied how many of our PMC "passively" watch as
opposed to work. It could be that those who are perceived as passive do
work we are not necessarily aware of.
All of us have on the PMC some notion of the kinds of resources we need
at this point. Even someone who characterizes himself as a "do-er" can
not manufacture certain elements on his own. The PMC, as a group, needs
to propose a plan, and then see what can be done to actualize it. I
imagine all of us have ideas about this. But Andrea's statement about
PMC members not being very coordinated does have validity. Maybe this is
because the project didn't start this way, being focused on resurrecting
the 3.4. release of OpenOffice.org with other priorities after that. So,
we really didn't start like a normal ground up project at Apache. Well I
could write a book on all this, but I doubt anyone wants to read it. :)
We all need to keep in mind that OpenOffice, like other Apache projects,
is composed of volunteers. Louis and Jan have different perspectives. In
any case we need a plan and the chair is not the only driving force.
OK, this was NOT brief. My apologies for that.
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-- Lou Reed
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 12/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
> I think both are close to each other as both
> want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and
> to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing
> more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both
> ideas we need to improve the community and its work.
> So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair?
This is not a crazy idea at all. I mean, I'm certain that both will
help, and that I will help actively too, and you Marcus, and all other
active people, each in their favorite area. We will obviously need to
elect one Chair, but this leaves unchanged opportunities for the others
to help.
The solution to what clearly is an issue (i.e., our PMC members listed
at http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc
are not very active or very coordinated on average) can be different.
Louis wrote about "facilitation", Jan wrote about "action", and these
are two different ways to address the issue.
One very clear thing is that the PMC will no longer be passively
watching the others work, in any case. So guys, be prepared to have to
be active! Would you work better with a certain candidate than with
another one? Do you prefer a certain style? Please use this discussion
to briefly state and exchange your views, and then we will move to voting.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
jan i wrote:
> he world as such do not always
> understand "the apache way" and to some the chair is more important. Since
> I am not into marketing (where the title chair matters) I have no need to
> be chair.
I prefer to avoid expressing personal points of view in this discussion,
but I can reply to this: after more than 2 years, almost nobody outside
this list knows that I am the OpenOffice PMC Chair. I'm averse to
publicity, but the title might be good for marketing only if one wants
to use it, because anyway it's the PMC and not the Chair that steers the
project, and the project is setup for a collective governance (like,
press requests go to the press alias that routes them to the PMC, not to
the Chair). This is why this discussion is important!
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:20, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Remark, whoever ends up getting elected (maybe we should really open up for
> new nominations), I will continue to work as usual.
Likewise I’ll work as … well, actually, as more than usual. :-)
Also: we make what we do with what we get and what we want, and that is as true for being Chair of the PMC as anything else.
cheers,
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 13 January 2015 at 00:03, Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:00, Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> >
> > Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts:
> >>
> >>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisher<da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit
> does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored.
> >>
> >> Right. I was going over the PMC list (
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and
> then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the
> project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally
> terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses
> and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So
> I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement.
> But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their
> engagement. A fair question, no?
> >
> > sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC
> members is different from voting for a new chair.
>
> Indeed. I think that one can only make changes to the PMC roster *after*
> an election for the chair of the current PMC :-)
>
Agreed but remark the difference between Louis and me....in my world,
"benefit of doubt" expired long time ago. I would have a simple ruleset:
any PMC who have not been been on dev@ or private@ for 3 month and
- who do not react to a personal mail requestion a confirmation on private
- who do not participate in the vote (implicit a function of the first rule)
would be asked to asked to leave, and if no reaction, ask the board for an
ACK to remove such people.
Please also remark the difference in opinion about what chair is. I do not
see a chair as a figure of anything, a chair is a PMC like all other PMC
members. But I do accept the fact that the world as such do not always
understand "the apache way" and to some the chair is more important. Since
I am not into marketing (where the title chair matters) I have no need to
be chair.
Remark, whoever ends up getting elected (maybe we should really open up for
new nominations), I will continue to work as usual.
rgds
jan i.
>
> >
> > Marcus
>
> Cheers,
> louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:00, Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>
> Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts:
>>
>>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisher<da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored.
>>
>> Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no?
>
> sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC members is different from voting for a new chair.
Indeed. I think that one can only make changes to the PMC roster *after* an election for the chair of the current PMC :-)
>
> Marcus
Cheers,
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts:
>
>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisher<da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored.
>
> Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no?
sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC
members is different from voting for a new chair.
Marcus
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Jan 2015, at 18:15, Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>
> Don't wait for the (old|new) chair to take action. ;-) Start now yourself with stating your problems and attempts you have already done. Then we can reply to this.
Yes!
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/13/2015 12:23 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
> I am a PMC member and inactive here, I am very sorry.
great to see (read) you back here again. :-)
> Our Apache OpenOffice Japanese community members are few.
> I think in Japan there are many Apache OpenOffice users and a few developers.
> Maho Nakata, http://www.openoffice.org/porting/ ,you know him, and I
> have been trying to rebuild the community but we have failed so far.
> We have no idea, what and how should we do?
OpenOffice is a large software within a large project as well. So, it
can help to start with small things to see if this works. If so, then
grow up with bigger things.
Just 2 ideas:
If you are just a few and maybe not that far away from each other, then
it should be possible to do a meeting in person - face-to-face. Here you
can talk about the problems and possible solutions that are special for
your (Japan) local area. And then try it.
After that (or in addition) also doing this in the shape of a little
conference, fair, seminar, workshop, etc. to try to meet with as many
OpenOffice fans as possible could be helpful.
> So I expect PMC Chair(s) encourage PMC members to speak up and share
> ideas, how to develop local communities.
Don't wait for the (old|new) chair to take action. ;-) Start now
yourself with stating your problems and attempts you have already done.
Then we can reply to this.
> I think Dual Chair (Two Chairs, or, Chair and Co-Chair, or whatever :)
> ) is a good idea.
> I would be comfortable with that!
Marcus
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>.
Hi all,
I am a PMC member and inactive here, I am very sorry.
But I am very active in everyday life :)
I changed my job 16 months ago.
Now I am a member of Marumitsu Seimen Co., Ltd,
http://marumitsu-seimen.com/ which produces and sells several kinds of
noodle (wheat noodle, buckwheat noodle, ramen etc)
As I am in charge of sales and marketing in the company, I go east and
west, north and south, all over Japan, to sell noodles! :) I live in
Ichinoseki, Iwate, northern part of Japan mainland, tomorrow I will go
down to Tokyo and stay there for 2 days to sell noodles at Setagaya
Boroichi, one of the biggest flea market in Japan. Just after the
market I will go up slightly up to Kawaguchi, Saitama, next to Tokyo,
and sell noodles at a department store for a week! I will miss my
family very much :(
Our Apache OpenOffice Japanese community members are few.
I think in Japan there are many Apache OpenOffice users and a few developers.
Maho Nakata, http://www.openoffice.org/porting/ ,you know him, and I
have been trying to rebuild the community but we have failed so far.
We have no idea, what and how should we do?
So I expect PMC Chair(s) encourage PMC members to speak up and share
ideas, how to develop local communities.
I think Dual Chair (Two Chairs, or, Chair and Co-Chair, or whatever :)
) is a good idea.
I would be comfortable with that!
Thanks,
khirano
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 13/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote:
> I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
> tell, for what topic they can be a contact person.
I believe you understood quite well the spirit of this discussion.
Nobody cares about the titles here, it is assumption of responsibility.
And ALL (not just some!) PMC members must, in my opinion at least, be
ready to change into "doers", as Kay calls it. It doesn't matter if one
only has a couple hours per week, it is crucial to the project that we
are reliable and that we are ready to make our part (considering the
many different skills of course). This is the only way to grow the project.
I'll keep this open for further comments about 24 hours, then I think it
will be time for me to call the vote.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project.
> >
>
> Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference
> between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference
> is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and
> QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around,
> does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does
> not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change
> that. This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important
> role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground.
>
> So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the
> critical tasks ahead.
>
+1
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> > On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann <
> anwalt@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
> >>
> >> > Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say.
> >> Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think
> others
> >> are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I
> >> dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving
> >> differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I
> don’t
> >> think anyone likes.)
> >>
> >> In the "historic" germanophone community we have roles called
> >> "Ansprechpartner". That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed.
> >> We have "Ansprechpartner" (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port,
> >> website, translation etc..
> >>
> >> So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility,
> >> but there was no special power given to them.
> >>
> >> I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
> >> tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this
> >> in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency,
> >> like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social
> media.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited Qualifications
> > <https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications>
> >
> > Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables
> >
> > Baseline testing and progress measures
> > <https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info>
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield
> > Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No:
> > 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940
>
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>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
> On 14 Jan 2015, at 07:17, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 14/01/2015 jan i wrote:
>> I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable.
>
> Copy-pasting the same remark I sent on this list about the other four, I respect your choices and your reasons not to run, but I would like to acknowledge you (and all nominees, and a "couple more people") as key people to the continued success of the project.
Actually, I just wrote to Jan privately and asked him to reconsider his resignation, as I believed the conditions he had put on his candidacy were difficult and that it would be better to go through the ritual of democracy, first.
>
> And looking at the future: Louis, as the only remaining candidate at this stage, do you confirm you are still a candidate, i.e., that you haven't changed your mind? Sorry for the odd question, but we've seen lots of surprises so far and before checking procedural issues for this unusual one-candidate-only election I prefer to verify that we still have a candidate.
I actually have not changed my mind, though I should hope that Jan has or will; or if he does not, that others might wish to enter the election.
My reason for wanting to move ahead is that I do not see what is being gained by delay or by these surprises *before* the election. The chair role is mostly an admin role; as Rob pointed out, it doesn’t magically change anything regarding the resources we have to draw upon. That’s up to us. So I’d much, much rather get on with the job of marshalling resources *as a community* and be done with this election. If we want another election, then let’s have another one; I personally have no issues with that.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Best,
Louis
>
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 14/01/2015 jan i wrote:
> I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable.
Copy-pasting the same remark I sent on this list about the other four, I
respect your choices and your reasons not to run, but I would like to
acknowledge you (and all nominees, and a "couple more people") as key
people to the continued success of the project.
And looking at the future: Louis, as the only remaining candidate at
this stage, do you confirm you are still a candidate, i.e., that you
haven't changed your mind? Sorry for the odd question, but we've seen
lots of surprises so far and before checking procedural issues for this
unusual one-candidate-only election I prefer to verify that we still
have a candidate.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
Hi
Andrea asked me to wait until the discussions was ending before making a
final decision, but now its time to decide.
I accepted to run for chair and thereby rejoin the PMC, because I was told
that the PMC had changed behavior..the discussions have made me sure that
my ways of getting things done will cause the same conflicts that made me
resign.
I point at Louis as our new chair.
I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable.
I thank people who believed in me and wish the PMC good luck.
rgds
jan i
--
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Roberto Galoppini <ro...@gmail.com>.
2015-01-13 17:44 GMT+01:00 Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com>:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project.
> >
>
> Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference
> between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference
> is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and
> QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around,
> does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does
> not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change
> that. This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important
> role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground.
>
Agree 100%.
> So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the
> critical tasks ahead.
>
Yea, let's vote and move on to get a signed win release and more. I mention
that not only because it's a pragmatic thing, actually it's a missing piece
that would help to avoid false positive issues like those we experienced
with Chrome users some time ago.
Roberto
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> > On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann <
> anwalt@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
> >>
> >> > Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say.
> >> Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think
> others
> >> are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I
> >> dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving
> >> differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I
> don’t
> >> think anyone likes.)
> >>
> >> In the "historic" germanophone community we have roles called
> >> "Ansprechpartner". That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed.
> >> We have "Ansprechpartner" (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port,
> >> website, translation etc..
> >>
> >> So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility,
> >> but there was no special power given to them.
> >>
> >> I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
> >> tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this
> >> in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency,
> >> like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social
> media.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited Qualifications
> > <https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications>
> >
> > Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables
> >
> > Baseline testing and progress measures
> > <https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info>
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield
> > Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No:
> > 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com>.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project.
>
Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference
between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference
is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and
QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around,
does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does
not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change
that. This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important
role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground.
So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the
critical tasks ahead.
Regards,
-Rob
> On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>>
>> > Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say.
>> Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others
>> are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I
>> dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving
>> differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t
>> think anyone likes.)
>>
>> In the "historic" germanophone community we have roles called
>> "Ansprechpartner". That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed.
>> We have "Ansprechpartner" (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port,
>> website, translation etc..
>>
>> So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility,
>> but there was no special power given to them.
>>
>> I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
>> tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this
>> in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency,
>> like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited Qualifications
> <https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications>
>
> Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables
>
> Baseline testing and progress measures
> <https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info>
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield
> Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No:
> 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project.
On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>
wrote:
> On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>
> > Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say.
> Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others
> are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I
> dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving
> differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t
> think anyone likes.)
>
> In the "historic" germanophone community we have roles called
> "Ansprechpartner". That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed.
> We have "Ansprechpartner" (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port,
> website, translation etc..
>
> So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility,
> but there was no special power given to them.
>
> I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
> tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this
> in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency,
> like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media.
>
> Kind regards
> Michael
>
>
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited Qualifications
<https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications>
Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables
Baseline testing and progress measures
<https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info>
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield
Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No:
05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>.
On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
> Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.)
In the "historic" germanophone community we have roles called
"Ansprechpartner". That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed.
We have "Ansprechpartner" (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port,
website, translation etc..
So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility,
but there was no special power given to them.
I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would
tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this
in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency,
like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media.
Kind regards
Michael
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair?
>
> Since the Chair at Apache is more ceremonial than THE lead in the best case then there should be nothing to preclude both Jan and Louis from scratching their itch and leading regardless of whom is the Chair.
The point I made earlier was that the “chair” title confers a kind of authority that we here in Apache land might find to be beside the point but others won’t. It’s not that I or anyone else, I imagine, would claim that
chair equals lead. It doesn’t. But that the chair would be, in addition to the regular and normal admin role, a figure for the expansion and development of the project.
Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.)
>
> Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored.
Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no?
>
> I have respect for both. Let the debate continue.
>
> Regards,
> Dave.
>
>
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>> ———
Cheers,
Louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 12, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>
> Am 01/12/2015 08:02 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>> On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>>> IMHO this PMC is more quite
>>> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
>>> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
>>
>> It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both
>> candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to
>> change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a
>> new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want
>> it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this
>> purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be
>> sure to have understood this in advance.
>>
>> Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like
>> to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary
>> and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I
>> think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
>>
>> Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the
>> project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than
>> working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and
>> collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We
>> also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government
>> agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let
>> me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC
>> implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience
>> and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted
>> action.
>>
>> Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and
>> changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the
>> whole "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of
>> resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to
>> show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where
>> we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in
>> driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of
>> writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these
>> guidelines.
>>
>> So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions
>> in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is
>> going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of
>> the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed
>> enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh
>> perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree
>> with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's
>> better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
>
> maybe a crazy idea:
>
> When reading both summaries I think both are close to each other as both want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both ideas we need to improve the community and its work.
>
> So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair?
Since the Chair at Apache is more ceremonial than THE lead in the best case then there should be nothing to preclude both Jan and Louis from scratching their itch and leading regardless of whom is the Chair.
Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored.
I have respect for both. Let the debate continue.
Regards,
Dave.
>
> Marcus
>
>
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/12/2015 08:02 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>> IMHO this PMC is more quite
>> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
>> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
>
> It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both
> candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to
> change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a
> new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want
> it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this
> purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be
> sure to have understood this in advance.
>
> Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like
> to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary
> and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I
> think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
>
> Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the
> project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than
> working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and
> collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We
> also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government
> agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let
> me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC
> implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience
> and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted
> action.
>
> Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and
> changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the
> whole "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of
> resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to
> show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where
> we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in
> driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of
> writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these
> guidelines.
>
> So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions
> in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is
> going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of
> the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed
> enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh
> perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree
> with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's
> better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
maybe a crazy idea:
When reading both summaries I think both are close to each other as both
want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and
to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing
more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both
ideas we need to improve the community and its work.
So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair?
Marcus
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 14:02, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>> IMHO this PMC is more quite
>> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
>> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
>
> It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance.
>
> Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
>
> Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action.
>
> Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines.
>
> So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Andrea, this is an accurate and better-than-the-original summary. Thanks.
I’m hoping we can have discussions on the points Jan and I have raised—as well as any others the community finds interesting.
Best
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 15:51, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I still have not seen any signs of PMC change (I interpret silence in this
> discussion as "don't care") so It still seems useless to have me serve
> for the 2months I promised
Jan,
Let’s take a wild leap and imagine that many on this list don’t have a clear sense of what you are talking about. :-)
What do you mean by “signs of PMC change”?
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On Monday, January 12, 2015, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>
>> IMHO this PMC is more quite
>> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
>> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
>>
>
> It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both
> candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change.
> This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC
> Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But
> it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely
> internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to
> have understood this in advance.
>
> Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like
> to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary
> and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I
> think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
>
> Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the
> project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than working
> in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to
> realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on
> marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already
> using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't
> seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice
> so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals
> rather than being a concerted action.
>
> Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and
> changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole
> "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of
> resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to
> show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we
> ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving
> the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that
> it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines.
"understand" is not what I expect, I expect the PMC to actively help
pursue all the changes I outlined, without expecting me to do more than
push.
I still have not seen any signs of PMC change (I interpret silence in this
discussion as "don't care") so It still seems useless to have me serve
for the 2months I promised
> So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in
> a wrong way,
and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with
> this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then
> I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to
> both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged
> you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do
> read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
May I add something based on a private communication from 2 PMC. Those of
you who think "one candidate will make AOO die, so lets choose the other
candidate", please discuss this in here or even better step up and ask to
be nominated.
rgds
jan i
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 12 Jan 2015, at 14:02, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
>> IMHO this PMC is more quite
>> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
>> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
>
> It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance.
>
> Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
>
> Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action.
>
> Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines.
>
> So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Andrea, this is an accurate and better-than-the-original summary. Thanks.
I’m hoping we can have discussions on the points Jan and I have raised—as well as any others the community finds interesting.
Best
louis
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote:
> IMHO this PMC is more quite
> than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
> that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both
candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to
change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a
new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want
it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this
purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be
sure to have understood this in advance.
Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like
to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary
and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I
think we can take the time to clarify it before voting.
Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the
project. He sees the Chair role as "enabling others" (rather than
working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and
collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We
also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government
agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let
me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC
implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience
and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action.
Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and
changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the
whole "OpenOffice ecosystem", including derivatives, is facing a lack of
resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to
show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where
we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in
driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of
writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these
guidelines.
So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions
in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is
going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of
the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed
enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh
perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree
with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's
better to be sure that we are ready to vote.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/11/2015 07:00 PM, schrieb Roberto Galoppini:
> 2015-01-11 8:50 GMT+01:00 jan i<ja...@apache.org>:
>
>> I have during the last days had discussions with multiple PMC members,
>> because I am puzzled or even scared about the level of engagement from the
>> PMC in this nomination.
>>
>> As I wrote in my introduction, I need the backing of the PMC to carry out
>> changes. my talks have convinced me that the PMC are unlikely to follow the
>> path I believe in.
>
>
>
> I'm not among those PMC members who talked to you, all I knew so far was
> that you were available, plus all your well-known activity for AOO.
> Happy to talk to you if that helps, the present email doesn't help me much
> to understand what's going on.
I don't know with whom you had some chats. IMHO this PMC is more quite
than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign
that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this.
Marcus
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Roberto Galoppini <ro...@gmail.com>.
2015-01-11 8:50 GMT+01:00 jan i <ja...@apache.org>:
> Hi
>
> I have during the last days had discussions with multiple PMC members,
> because I am puzzled or even scared about the level of engagement from the
> PMC in this nomination.
>
> As I wrote in my introduction, I need the backing of the PMC to carry out
> changes. my talks have convinced me that the PMC are unlikely to follow the
> path I believe in.
Hi Jan,
I'm not among those PMC members who talked to you, all I knew so far was
that you were available, plus all your well-known activity for AOO.
Happy to talk to you if that helps, the present email doesn't help me much
to understand what's going on.
Thanks,
Roberto
> Please remark I am NOT saying the PMC is following a
> wrong road, only the future can determine that.
>
> Due to a likely conflict (remember I resigned due to this) I can only
> promise to serve for 2 month and a fast new election is not good for the
> project.
>
> Louis on the other hand seems to be accepted by the PMC and are surely also
> a person that has experience.
>
> I hereby recommend Louis be the new chair.
>
>
> I will continue supporting the project as I have the last couple of years.
>
> rgds
> jan i
>
>
> On Sunday, January 11, 2015, Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Everybody,
> > I’m a candidate for PMC Chair…. And more below.
> >
> > > On 6 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Andrea Pescetti <pescetti@apache.org
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> > public and state very briefly:
> >
> > The PMC Chair is ostensibly an administrative position. It’s certainly
> > that, but it also vests its holder with an authority that can be used to
> > grow the project.
> >
> > That, at least, is one way I should like to use it, should I be elected.
> > If elected, I could serve for at least one year and probably more.
> > OpenOffice has been my life for a very long time; it—the community and
> what
> > it can accomplish with a free tool as powerful as OpenOffice and the
> ODF—is
> > something I believe in and love.
> >
> > But so do we all. I don’t see myself as working in isolation or as the
> > “lead.” Hardly; I see the role as enabling others. I have a notion of
> where
> > I would like to see OpenOffice—but so do you. And so does Jan. What would
> > be great is if we could work efficiently and collaboratively to realise
> our
> > visions of Apache OpenOffice’s future.
> >
> > Growing the community of contributors and uses is something I have some
> > experience doing. But what worked with OpenOffice.org, like the Native
> > Language Projects, were created under different circumstances. AOO is not
> > OOo: it’s more of a community effort. And it operates within the Apache
> > Software Foundation.
> >
> > These are plusses and the opportunities they present to would-be
> > contributors can be communicated to those companies and government
> agencies
> > who are already using OpenOffice and those who are considering using it.
> We
> > have not focused on such marketing efforts, and I would like to do so.
> >
> > We also need … so many other things. Updated documentation for
> developers,
> > for instance; more mentoring and training (at whatever level); and so on:
> > not news. Engaging the community that we have and that we will have is
> part
> > of the fun I’d like to take on, though I’d reframe it by emphasising that
> > it’s actually our fun.
> >
> > I also believe that we need to explore collaboration with The Document
> > Foundation and LibreOffice. I’ve always argued we should. No one benefits
> > by maintaining this split. (Oh, arguably, the proprietary products reap
> in
> > yet more billions. But they would anyway.) I have no illusions about any
> > reconciliation or collaboration. But I also believe that the overall
> > community of users stands to gain hugely.
> >
> > More can be said, and I hope it is. But not now.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Louis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Louis Suárez-Potts
> > Age of Peers
> > PMC Apache OpenOffice
> > Skype: louisiam
> > Mobile: +1.416.625.3843
> > Twitter: @luispo
> > Company: http://www.ageofpeers.com/
> > Personal: http://www.luispo.com/
> > Google: https://plus.google.com/+LouisSuárezPotts/
> <https://plus.google.com/+LouisSu%C3%A1rezPotts/>
> > <https://plus.google.com/+LouisSu%C3%A1rezPotts/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>
> >
> >
>
> --
> Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
>
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
Hi
I have during the last days had discussions with multiple PMC members,
because I am puzzled or even scared about the level of engagement from the
PMC in this nomination.
As I wrote in my introduction, I need the backing of the PMC to carry out
changes. my talks have convinced me that the PMC are unlikely to follow the
path I believe in. Please remark I am NOT saying the PMC is following a
wrong road, only the future can determine that.
Due to a likely conflict (remember I resigned due to this) I can only
promise to serve for 2 month and a fast new election is not good for the
project.
Louis on the other hand seems to be accepted by the PMC and are surely also
a person that has experience.
I hereby recommend Louis be the new chair.
I will continue supporting the project as I have the last couple of years.
rgds
jan i
On Sunday, January 11, 2015, Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> I’m a candidate for PMC Chair…. And more below.
>
> > On 6 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Andrea Pescetti <pescetti@apache.org
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> public and state very briefly:
>
> The PMC Chair is ostensibly an administrative position. It’s certainly
> that, but it also vests its holder with an authority that can be used to
> grow the project.
>
> That, at least, is one way I should like to use it, should I be elected.
> If elected, I could serve for at least one year and probably more.
> OpenOffice has been my life for a very long time; it—the community and what
> it can accomplish with a free tool as powerful as OpenOffice and the ODF—is
> something I believe in and love.
>
> But so do we all. I don’t see myself as working in isolation or as the
> “lead.” Hardly; I see the role as enabling others. I have a notion of where
> I would like to see OpenOffice—but so do you. And so does Jan. What would
> be great is if we could work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our
> visions of Apache OpenOffice’s future.
>
> Growing the community of contributors and uses is something I have some
> experience doing. But what worked with OpenOffice.org, like the Native
> Language Projects, were created under different circumstances. AOO is not
> OOo: it’s more of a community effort. And it operates within the Apache
> Software Foundation.
>
> These are plusses and the opportunities they present to would-be
> contributors can be communicated to those companies and government agencies
> who are already using OpenOffice and those who are considering using it. We
> have not focused on such marketing efforts, and I would like to do so.
>
> We also need … so many other things. Updated documentation for developers,
> for instance; more mentoring and training (at whatever level); and so on:
> not news. Engaging the community that we have and that we will have is part
> of the fun I’d like to take on, though I’d reframe it by emphasising that
> it’s actually our fun.
>
> I also believe that we need to explore collaboration with The Document
> Foundation and LibreOffice. I’ve always argued we should. No one benefits
> by maintaining this split. (Oh, arguably, the proprietary products reap in
> yet more billions. But they would anyway.) I have no illusions about any
> reconciliation or collaboration. But I also believe that the overall
> community of users stands to gain hugely.
>
> More can be said, and I hope it is. But not now.
>
> Cheers,
> Louis
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Louis Suárez-Potts
> Age of Peers
> PMC Apache OpenOffice
> Skype: louisiam
> Mobile: +1.416.625.3843
> Twitter: @luispo
> Company: http://www.ageofpeers.com/
> Personal: http://www.luispo.com/
> Google: https://plus.google.com/+LouisSuárezPotts/
> <https://plus.google.com/+LouisSu%C3%A1rezPotts/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi Everybody,
I’m a candidate for PMC Chair…. And more below.
> On 6 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly:
The PMC Chair is ostensibly an administrative position. It’s certainly that, but it also vests its holder with an authority that can be used to grow the project.
That, at least, is one way I should like to use it, should I be elected. If elected, I could serve for at least one year and probably more. OpenOffice has been my life for a very long time; it—the community and what it can accomplish with a free tool as powerful as OpenOffice and the ODF—is something I believe in and love.
But so do we all. I don’t see myself as working in isolation or as the “lead.” Hardly; I see the role as enabling others. I have a notion of where I would like to see OpenOffice—but so do you. And so does Jan. What would be great is if we could work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice’s future.
Growing the community of contributors and uses is something I have some experience doing. But what worked with OpenOffice.org, like the Native Language Projects, were created under different circumstances. AOO is not OOo: it’s more of a community effort. And it operates within the Apache Software Foundation.
These are plusses and the opportunities they present to would-be contributors can be communicated to those companies and government agencies who are already using OpenOffice and those who are considering using it. We have not focused on such marketing efforts, and I would like to do so.
We also need … so many other things. Updated documentation for developers, for instance; more mentoring and training (at whatever level); and so on: not news. Engaging the community that we have and that we will have is part of the fun I’d like to take on, though I’d reframe it by emphasising that it’s actually our fun.
I also believe that we need to explore collaboration with The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. I’ve always argued we should. No one benefits by maintaining this split. (Oh, arguably, the proprietary products reap in yet more billions. But they would anyway.) I have no illusions about any reconciliation or collaboration. But I also believe that the overall community of users stands to gain hugely.
More can be said, and I hope it is. But not now.
Cheers,
Louis
---
Louis Suárez-Potts
Age of Peers
PMC Apache OpenOffice
Skype: louisiam
Mobile: +1.416.625.3843
Twitter: @luispo
Company: http://www.ageofpeers.com/
Personal: http://www.luispo.com/
Google: https://plus.google.com/+LouisSuárezPotts/
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/06/2015 07:33 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
> but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of
> whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates
> wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good,
> since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For
> example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information
> about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone
> commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then
> reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have
> done so far.
>
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide
> their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement
> are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
thanks a lot for your trust in me (especially @Michal for his initial
suggestion). However, I don't feel to be the right person. Even when
it's not that much work (in theory ;-) ) that the chair has to do, I
cannot gurantee to have it when it is needed.
I have to work for my money and therefore I can only spend my spare time
in the evening and weekend - and even then not always. I don't want that
you have to wait for me to get the chair work done.
Of course, you can say "don't worry, just try it". But to resign after 3
months because it's really not working and then voting again for someone
new would be IMHO a wrong message to the world.
Thanks
Marcus
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 06/01/15 19:33, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>
> We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be
> excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or
> refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still
> open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail
> and ask for a statement by 10 January too.
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
> public and state very briefly:
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
> but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of
> whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates
> wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good,
> since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For
> example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information
> about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone
> commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then
> reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have
> done so far.
>
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide
> their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement
> are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
First of all thank you for the nomination and the trust in me that I
could be a good candidate. I would have been interested for sure earlier
or potentially in the future but at this time I won't be available for
the election.
Although I am involved in the project since the beginning and already
before the source code was open sourced I have switched some priorities
and my work focus a bit. I believe that I would not have enough time to
help the project moving forward in the near future.
I am looking forward that somebody else grows in the role of the PMC
chair and takes more responsibility. My wish is that the next PMC chair
will be active in the project and will help to drive things forward
together with the PMC. The most important goal is to activate developers
and improve the product in critical areas.
Juergen
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Fwd: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
>> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
>> nominations.
>
>
> We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent
> choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the
> nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if
> you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a
> statement by 10 January too.
>
> Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public
> and state very briefly:
>
> 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but
> I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
>
I'll decline my nomination, though I did give it serious consideration
and am gratified to be nominated.
a) I don't think I can reliably meet the time commitment that this
role would require.
b) I think that progress within the larger ecosystem will require
rapprochement with the less ideological elements of the LibreOffice
community. My past statements and writings make me too much of an
obstacle in that respect, allowing those with more radical views to
block the natural accommodation that should be occurring between these
two communities.
c) I think I can better serve the project, as I have, in other ways.
> 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
>
> 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether
> one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take
> responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project
> is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often
> updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum
> (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a
> certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team
> work and can be much better than what we have done so far.
>
I've generally been focused on:
a) Social media -- I manage the Facebook, Twitter and Google+ accounts.
b) Analytics and SEO for our website
c) Track downloads and similar stats
d) Blogging
e) Materials to help new volunteers get started on the project
f) Bugzilla Admin
g) Moderator for many of the mailing lists.
In general, what I do helps amplify the visibility and recognition of
the good work that our committers do in new AOO releases. I'm hoping
we soon get a Release Manager volunteer, and make progress on a new
release so I can be busy again in the above areas.
Regards,
-Rob
> The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
> - jani Jan Iversen
> - jsc Jürgen Schmidt
> - kschenk Kay Schenk
> - louis Louis Suarez-Potts
> - marcus Marcus Lange
> - robweir Rob Weir
>
> I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their
> statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to
> expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or
> self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with
> nominations.
We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be
excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or
refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still
open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail
and ask for a statement by 10 January too.
Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in
public and state very briefly:
1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set,
but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year.
2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed.
3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of
whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates
wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good,
since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For
example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information
about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone
commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then
reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have
done so far.
The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order:
- jani Jan Iversen
- jsc Jürgen Schmidt
- kschenk Kay Schenk
- louis Louis Suarez-Potts
- marcus Marcus Lange
- robweir Rob Weir
I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide
their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement
are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish.
Regards,
Andrea.
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