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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> on 2012/04/03 19:09:36 UTC
CloudStack Incubation proposal
All,
Please review:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CloudStackProposal
The info that this was on its way kinda leaked out before all was
ready, but in the grand-scheme of things, with so many moving parts
and players, I think it went well.
Needless to say, it also proves, once again, that the ASF is
a known and trusted entity!
Now let's see who complains and says we're fragmenting the
cloud community or whatever... Where's Simon? :)
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> And we could simply ignore all this, as there was never any actual intent
> to assume an analogous situation. It was a flip comment. That's all. Please
> stop reading more into things, and escalating discussions.
One might test if the analogy holds. It clearly does not past the superficial level. With CloudStack there is no legacy of 2 decades of infrastructure with no overview. There is no decade as an "Open Source" project. There is no fork trouble.
I do think it is pertinent to pay attention to the trade press and blogosphere.
> Have fun. Move along.
Fun! Here's to it.
Regards,
Dave
>
> -g
> On Apr 4, 2012 11:47 AM, "Mohammad Nour El-Din" <no...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi...
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
>>>>>
>>>>> One I do not find funny at all.
>>>>
>>>> You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
>>>> funny bone transplant?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
>>>>>> refuse the donation and force them to
>>>>>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
>>>>>
>>>>> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the
>> same
>>>>> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
>>>>> decrease.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
>>>> code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
>>>> collaboration between these projects to increase not
>>>> decrease.
>>>
>>> There is a post on Wired that discusses the split between CloudStack and
>>> OpenStack. [1]
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/04/citrix-cloudstack/
>>
>>
>> I read that link and IMHO:
>>
>> 1- I believe there is no problem that Citrix didn't find it self in
>> OpenStack community and they looked into other open source communities into
>> which they can invest their expertise and technology and also invest in
>> building a community around that by donating that code to ASF
>>
>> 2- These kinds of splits I believe it happens all the time and no harm
>> about it at all more specifically it has been mentioned that the split was
>> a clean one and no problems emerged as a consequence
>>
>> 3- I don't think at all that donating CloudStack to ASF can be looked at as
>> starting a *war* between open source cloud stacks in a bad way, on contrary
>> I believe that different open source communities compete among each other
>> in the good meaning of the word which is the main engine behind open source
>> innovation that each community tries to produce the best they can
>>
>> 4- If what is said is that article and other related articles is true [1],
>> that CloudStack is more mature and stable than OpenStack, then I believe
>> that is good for ASF to have CloudStack
>>
>> Referrals to AOO and problems and challenges happened at that time as
>> accepting the donation of such big project, I think we now have a better
>> opportunity to deal better with the case of CloudStack because we can learn
>> from what happened back at the time of AOO
>>
>> That said I believe it is better to focus on the proposal and the
>> challenges we have when/if accepting CloudStack, which I believe that we
>> should accept such proposal
>>
>> [1] -
>>
>> http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>> - Mohammad Nour
>> ----
>> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
>> - Albert Einstein
>>
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
And we could simply ignore all this, as there was never any actual intent
to assume an analogous situation. It was a flip comment. That's all. Please
stop reading more into things, and escalating discussions.
Have fun. Move along.
-g
On Apr 4, 2012 11:47 AM, "Mohammad Nour El-Din" <no...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi...
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
> > >>
> > >> One I do not find funny at all.
> > >
> > > You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
> > > funny bone transplant?
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
> > >>> refuse the donation and force them to
> > >>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
> > >>
> > >> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the
> same
> > >> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> > >> decrease.
> > >>
> > >
> > > LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
> > > code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
> > > collaboration between these projects to increase not
> > > decrease.
> >
> > There is a post on Wired that discusses the split between CloudStack and
> > OpenStack. [1]
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > [1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/04/citrix-cloudstack/
>
>
> I read that link and IMHO:
>
> 1- I believe there is no problem that Citrix didn't find it self in
> OpenStack community and they looked into other open source communities into
> which they can invest their expertise and technology and also invest in
> building a community around that by donating that code to ASF
>
> 2- These kinds of splits I believe it happens all the time and no harm
> about it at all more specifically it has been mentioned that the split was
> a clean one and no problems emerged as a consequence
>
> 3- I don't think at all that donating CloudStack to ASF can be looked at as
> starting a *war* between open source cloud stacks in a bad way, on contrary
> I believe that different open source communities compete among each other
> in the good meaning of the word which is the main engine behind open source
> innovation that each community tries to produce the best they can
>
> 4- If what is said is that article and other related articles is true [1],
> that CloudStack is more mature and stable than OpenStack, then I believe
> that is good for ASF to have CloudStack
>
> Referrals to AOO and problems and challenges happened at that time as
> accepting the donation of such big project, I think we now have a better
> opportunity to deal better with the case of CloudStack because we can learn
> from what happened back at the time of AOO
>
> That said I believe it is better to focus on the proposal and the
> challenges we have when/if accepting CloudStack, which I believe that we
> should accept such proposal
>
> [1] -
>
> http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> - Mohammad Nour
> ----
> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
> - Albert Einstein
>
Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Mohammad Nour El-Din <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi...
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> >
> >> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
> >>
> >> One I do not find funny at all.
> >
> > You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
> > funny bone transplant?
> >
> >>
> >>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
> >>> refuse the donation and force them to
> >>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
> >>
> >> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
> >> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> >> decrease.
> >>
> >
> > LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
> > code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
> > collaboration between these projects to increase not
> > decrease.
>
> There is a post on Wired that discusses the split between CloudStack and
> OpenStack. [1]
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/04/citrix-cloudstack/
I read that link and IMHO:
1- I believe there is no problem that Citrix didn't find it self in
OpenStack community and they looked into other open source communities into
which they can invest their expertise and technology and also invest in
building a community around that by donating that code to ASF
2- These kinds of splits I believe it happens all the time and no harm
about it at all more specifically it has been mentioned that the split was
a clean one and no problems emerged as a consequence
3- I don't think at all that donating CloudStack to ASF can be looked at as
starting a *war* between open source cloud stacks in a bad way, on contrary
I believe that different open source communities compete among each other
in the good meaning of the word which is the main engine behind open source
innovation that each community tries to produce the best they can
4- If what is said is that article and other related articles is true [1],
that CloudStack is more mature and stable than OpenStack, then I believe
that is good for ASF to have CloudStack
Referrals to AOO and problems and challenges happened at that time as
accepting the donation of such big project, I think we now have a better
opportunity to deal better with the case of CloudStack because we can learn
from what happened back at the time of AOO
That said I believe it is better to focus on the proposal and the
challenges we have when/if accepting CloudStack, which I believe that we
should accept such proposal
[1] -
http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>
>> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>
>>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
>>
>> One I do not find funny at all.
>
> You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
> funny bone transplant?
>
>>
>>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
>>> refuse the donation and force them to
>>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
>>
>> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
>> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
>> decrease.
>>
>
> LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
> code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
> collaboration between these projects to increase not
> decrease.
There is a post on Wired that discusses the split between CloudStack and OpenStack. [1]
Regards,
Dave
[1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/04/citrix-cloudstack/
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 3:04 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org>wrote:
> Minor nit:
>
> In economic terms, Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice are not complementary.
>
> - Dennis
>
> In computing, an example of complements are hardware and software.
> Software vendors want the hardware to be free (more for us!) and hardware
> vendors want the software to be free (more for us!). Throw in
> telecommunication carriers, smartphones, and software and it gets really
> exciting.
>
> There is some other term needed for independent producers that deliver
> comparables while cooperating in areas of mutual interest.
A Nash Equilibrium perhaps?
> Although monopolistic competition arises (mines better than yours), it is
> moderated in the case of open-source efforts. (Perhaps this is because
> there cannot be abuse of, let alone achievement of, monopoly power where
> feature differentiation is in the open-source code base.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:jim@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 13:32
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Simon Phipps
> Subject: Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>
> > On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >
> >> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
> >
> > One I do not find funny at all.
>
> You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
> funny bone transplant?
>
> >
> >> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
> >> refuse the donation and force them to
> >> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
> >
> > CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
> > license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> > decrease.
> >
>
> LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
> code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
> collaboration between these projects to increase not
> decrease.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Best Regards,
-- Alex
RE: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Minor nit:
In economic terms, Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice are not complementary.
- Dennis
In computing, an example of complements are hardware and software. Software vendors want the hardware to be free (more for us!) and hardware vendors want the software to be free (more for us!). Throw in telecommunication carriers, smartphones, and software and it gets really exciting.
There is some other term needed for independent producers that deliver comparables while cooperating in areas of mutual interest. Although monopolistic competition arises (mines better than yours), it is moderated in the case of open-source efforts. (Perhaps this is because there cannot be abuse of, let alone achievement of, monopoly power where feature differentiation is in the open-source code base.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:jim@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 13:32
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Simon Phipps
Subject: Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
>
> One I do not find funny at all.
You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
funny bone transplant?
>
>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
>> refuse the donation and force them to
>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
>
> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> decrease.
>
LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
collaboration between these projects to increase not
decrease.
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org>.
On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
>
> One I do not find funny at all.
You should have. It was funny. Maybe you need a
funny bone transplant?
>
>> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
>> refuse the donation and force them to
>> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
>
> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> decrease.
>
LO and AOOo are complementary and they are setup so that
code can move in a very Pro-LO direction. I would like
collaboration between these projects to increase not
decrease.
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
> license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
> decrease.
Why, if there is a different community that wants to do things in a different way why would you discourage that? Collaboration is up to the community.
Matt Hogstrom
matt@hogstrom.org
A Day Without Nuclear Fusion Is a Day Without Sunshine
Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
On 03.04.2012 20:10, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke.
One I do not find funny at all.
> And 2ndly, people could complain that we should
> refuse the donation and force them to
> put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
CloudStack and OpenStack seem to be complementary and they use the same
license. I expect collaboration between these projects to increase not
decrease.
Cheers,
Andreas
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 19:09, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Now let's see who complains and says we're fragmenting the
>> cloud community or whatever... Where's Simon? :)
>
> Please, as far as I know the community situation regarding CloudStack
> seems to be very different from the one concerning LibreOffice and
> OpenOffice.org
>
> Maybe you never understood what the discussion was about?
>
Oh come on... 1st of all, it's a joke. And 2ndly, people could
complain that we should refuse the donation and force them to
put all their code/energies into OpenStack...
And yes, I kept Simon on the CC list. I had assumed he was on
the general@ list anyway. But it was a sweet, fanboi gesture to
ensure he was aware of this. Maybe he'll give you a cookie.
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Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
It was a joke. Let it go...
On Apr 3, 2012 1:57 PM, "Andreas Kuckartz" <A....@ping.de> wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 19:09, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> > Now let's see who complains and says we're fragmenting the
> > cloud community or whatever... Where's Simon? :)
>
> Please, as far as I know the community situation regarding CloudStack
> seems to be very different from the one concerning LibreOffice and
> OpenOffice.org
>
> Maybe you never understood what the discussion was about?
>
> Cheers,
> Andreas
>
>
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>
>
Re: CloudStack Incubation proposal
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
On 03.04.2012 19:09, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Now let's see who complains and says we're fragmenting the
> cloud community or whatever... Where's Simon? :)
Please, as far as I know the community situation regarding CloudStack
seems to be very different from the one concerning LibreOffice and
OpenOffice.org
Maybe you never understood what the discussion was about?
Cheers,
Andreas
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