Fwd: Including snapshot dependencies from other ASF projects

[Cliff Schmidt <cl...@gmail.com>]

FYI -- just sent this to the Incubator general list.  We'll see what
the rest of the PMC thinks about it.  Any of you should definitely
feel free to jump in with corrections or opinions.

Cliff

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cliff Schmidt
Date: Nov 17, 2006 12:36 AM
Subject: Including snapshot dependencies from other ASF projects
To: general at incubator

The Qpid community has been debating whether or not they should
include an unreleased snapshot version of MINA within their upcoming
Qpid release, and whether they would even be allowed to do so by
"Apache rules".  The committers want to do the right thing and have
asked their mentors for advice.  Paul and I (mentors) have both said
that there could be a way to do this properly, but we also both
thought it was worth discussing on this list, in part because we
expect other podlings out there will have similar questions.

I don't want to revisit the ongoing infrastructure thread about what
constitutes a release, where builds/releases should and shouldn't be
placed, etc.  Instead, I'm hoping to understand concerns that
Incubator PMC members have about one of our projects releasing code
that includes unreleased code from another project/podling.  The key
point here is that any PMC that releases any code is always
responsible for what it is releasing, whether it's code written under
the purview of the PMC or other dependencies included in the project
-- this isn't a question about whether unreleased code can be
distributed without being voted upon; it's a question of which PMC is
doing the voting.

To see the debate that the Qpid community has been having, take a look
at some of the threads at
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-qpid-dev/200611.mbox/thread?3,
particularly the "Maven and artifacts...." thread.  Part of the debate
involves technical pros and cons, but I'm trying to get at any policy
issues.

I should point out that the Qpid committers have already submitted
patches to the MINA folks, and from what I've read, MINA has been very
receptive and helpful.  The issue here is that even when the patch is
committed to MINA's trunk, they may not choose to create a release
just for this patch or for other reasons within the timeframe when
Qpid would like to do their release.  One thing I'm not sure about is
whether the MINA folks have any concerns about Qpid including the
snapshot in their release.

While this issue could apply to any ASF project, not just incubating
ones, I'm raising the issue here because this would be the PMC that
would ultimately approve or reject the release.

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts (especially PMC members).

Thanks,
Cliff