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Posted to dev@sedona.apache.org by Jia Yu <ji...@apache.org> on 2024/04/01 19:41:21 UTC

[ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Dear all,

🎉🎉🎉 The next monthly office hour is on April 9th (Tuesday) from 8 to 9
am Pacific Time. We will cover Project Updates, a Focus Topic Presentation,
an Open Discussion and Q&A, and information on the Roadmap and Future
Plans. It's an excellent opportunity for the community to engage and
contribute to Apache Sedona's development.

In this office hour, the following topics will be covered:
1. Apache Sedona 1.6.0 release timeline
2. Implementation of GeoParquet spec 1.1.0
3. Shapely 2.0 integration for vector data
4. Rasterio and numpy integration for raster data
5. Drop Java 8 support

For details and to join, please import the event to your calendar:
https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=TEMPLATE&tmeid=NjI0cWgwcTZndnI1anAzYnFrNHY5Y2wyaTRfMjAyNDA0MDlUMTUwMDAwWiBjX2VmN2Q1NGY1MzA4YTRiN2YyNWFjMzNkMGY3ZWViNTRhM2E3ZjExNWI2ODlmYWY0ZDgyNDI1ZjNjYjVlZGU5MzVAZw&tmsrc=c_ef7d54f5308a4b7f25ac33d0f7eeb54a3a7f115b689faf4d82425f3cb5ede935%40group.calendar.google.com&scp=ALL

To join Zoom Meeting
https://wherobots.zoom.us/j/91596329826
Passcode: 508995

Thanks,
Jia

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Martin Desruisseaux <ma...@geomatys.com>.
Le 2024-04-12 à 02 h 04, Jia Yu a écrit :
>
> Sounds good! Should I contact info@osgeo.org?
>
That would be appreciated!

> In addition, I think you can also create a project called sis-geotools 
> yourself from here? https://gitbox.apache.org/boxer/ Then this project 
> will be a sub-project of Apache SIS.
>
The projet would have a strong (non-optional) dependencies to GeoTools, 
which is not allowed for an Apache project because of LGPL license. I 
think that OSGeo would be a better home, if they agree. Furthermore, 
there is already a GeoAPI-PROJ binding there [1].

Note that the project would not be named "sis-geotools", but rather 
"geoapi-geotools" or "geotools-geoapi" or something similar. GeoAPI is 
implementation neutral, so this project would not depend on SIS. We 
would have two projects (GeoTools and SIS) implementing the same set of 
interfaces (GeoAPI), so the interoperability between the two projects 
would happen at the GeoAPI level.

     Martin

[1]https://github.com/OSGeo/PROJ-JNI

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Jia Yu <ji...@apache.org>.
Sounds good! Should I contact info@osgeo.org?

In addition, I think you can also create a project called sis-geotools
yourself from here? https://gitbox.apache.org/boxer/  Then this project
will be a sub-project of Apache SIS.

Thanks,
Jia

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 3:50 PM Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisseaux@geomatys.com> wrote:

> Hello Jia
>
> Thanks for your reply. Indeed, small steps is fine. For making the
> following step more gradual:
>
> > We will start with upgrading GeoTools to a newer version that does not
> > conflict with Apache SIS. Then replace ST_Transform with Apache SIS.
>
> The conflict was in "org.opengis" package names, which is owned by OGC
> (GeoTools did a fork of OGC standard). They resolved this conflict by
> renaming their "org.opengis" packages to something else. The consequence
> for Sedona is that an upgrade of GeoTools followed by SIS would imply a
> renaming of "org.opengis" to something else, then back to "org.opengis"
> (but this time in compliance with OGC standard).
>
> Upgrading directly to SIS (the work that Furqaan started) would avoid
> this back-and-forth package renaming, but may be risky because of
> possible behavioral changes to manage all at once if the replacement is
> a "all or nothing".
>
> There is a third approach that may be considered: create a new project
> on GitHub (host organization to be determined, maybe OSGeo) where to
> create OGC GeoAPI wrappers for GeoTools. This is possible now that
> GeoTools no longer conflict with OGC standard. If there is a volunteer
> for setting up the project (possibly by asking OSGeo if they would
> accept to host the GitHub repository), I can volunteer for the actual
> Java code. The advantages for Sedona would be:
>
>   * Upgrade to latest GeoTools without renaming the
>     `org.opengis.referencing` packages (but it would be wrappers instead
>     of direct GeoTools API).
>   * Instances of the CoordinateReferenceSystem interface can be
>     implemented either by GeoTools or Apache SIS in the same JVM. It
>     should be possible to have the two libraries co-existing behind the
>     same API. So migration of the coordinate transformation services
>     (for example) would not need to be done all at once for the whole
>     Sedona project.
>
> Martin
>
>

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Martin Desruisseaux <ma...@geomatys.com>.
Hello Jia

Thanks for your reply. Indeed, small steps is fine. For making the 
following step more gradual:

> We will start with upgrading GeoTools to a newer version that does not
> conflict with Apache SIS. Then replace ST_Transform with Apache SIS.

The conflict was in "org.opengis" package names, which is owned by OGC 
(GeoTools did a fork of OGC standard). They resolved this conflict by 
renaming their "org.opengis" packages to something else. The consequence 
for Sedona is that an upgrade of GeoTools followed by SIS would imply a 
renaming of "org.opengis" to something else, then back to "org.opengis" 
(but this time in compliance with OGC standard).

Upgrading directly to SIS (the work that Furqaan started) would avoid 
this back-and-forth package renaming, but may be risky because of 
possible behavioral changes to manage all at once if the replacement is 
a "all or nothing".

There is a third approach that may be considered: create a new project 
on GitHub (host organization to be determined, maybe OSGeo) where to 
create OGC GeoAPI wrappers for GeoTools. This is possible now that 
GeoTools no longer conflict with OGC standard. If there is a volunteer 
for setting up the project (possibly by asking OSGeo if they would 
accept to host the GitHub repository), I can volunteer for the actual 
Java code. The advantages for Sedona would be:

  * Upgrade to latest GeoTools without renaming the
    `org.opengis.referencing` packages (but it would be wrappers instead
    of direct GeoTools API).
  * Instances of the CoordinateReferenceSystem interface can be
    implemented either by GeoTools or Apache SIS in the same JVM. It
    should be possible to have the two libraries co-existing behind the
    same API. So migration of the coordinate transformation services
    (for example) would not need to be done all at once for the whole
    Sedona project.

Martin


Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Jia Yu <ji...@apache.org>.
Hi Martin,

I have high respect for Apache SIS and we are fully onboard to replace
GeoTools with Apache SIS. This is one of the reasons why we want to drop
Java 8 support now. Furqaan already made good progress on the initial
integration.

Currently, we just don't have enough hands in the community to drive this
effort. But I will try to allocate some resources from Wherobots and any
support from the Sedona community is highly appreciated.

We will start with upgrading GeoTools to a newer version that does not
conflict with Apache SIS. Then replace ST_Transform with Apache SIS.

How does this sound?

Thanks,
Jia


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 10:15 AM Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisseaux@geomatys.com> wrote:

> Hello Jia and all
>
> Thanks for the report. I couldn't attend to the meeting (the link told
> me that I needed a commercial zoom account, maybe I took the wrong
> link). Items about crossing the anti-meridian (date line) and raster I/O
> make me wonder if we could continue progress on integration of Apache
> SIS in Sedona? There is licensing reasons, as Apache projects should not
> depend on LGPL libraries (even if GeoTools is technically an optional
> dependency, can Sedona provides most of its services without it?) But
> there is also technical reasons. Sedona is trying to address some
> difficult tasks. For example, handling the anti-meridian is easy with
> points (just add or subtract 360°), but more difficult when computing
> unions or intersections of envelopes (if longitude crosses 0° in one
> envelope and 180° in the other envelope, none of the [−180° … +180°] and
> [0° … 360°] range conventions will work; the calculation is more
> complicated than just shifting one envelope). Anti-meridian is also a
> difficult problem when resampling geometries or rasters: if the source
> and target CRS are projected, we cannot easily add/subtract a value to
> source/target coordinates. The shift happens somewhere in the middle of
> the coordinate operation chain, and the action to do (add or subtract)
> is not easy to determine. Resolving this problem requires some
> integration between the "referencing" and the "coverage" modules.
>
> Apache SIS tries to address above-cited problems, and more (e.g.
> multi-dimensional support). SIS is based on 25 years of experience and
> on lessons learned from mistakes that we did in GeoTools when we wrote
> its referencing and coverage modules 15 years ago. My concern is that
> Sedona developments that are designed according GeoTools contraints may
> become obstacles after an eventual migration to SIS. For example, SIS
> can handle itself at least some parts of the anti-meridian problem, and
> handling added by Sedona may interfere. Also, Sedona API added recently
> such as BBOX with (minX, maxX, minY, maxY) fields would have possibly be
> done differently if Sedona was built on top of a library supporting
> multi-dimensional data from the ground. I'm concerned that, if there is
> an interest for migrating to SIS, this task will become more and more
> difficult as time passes, and design decisions that could have been more
> generic (less 2D-restricted) will accumulate in Sedona.
>
> For a testimony from someone else who migrated from GeoTools to Apache
> SIS, there is this blog:
>
>
> https://www.int.com/blog/how-apache-sis-simplifies-hidden-complexity-coordinate-systems-in-ivaap/
>
> Of course I would be happy to help as much as I can.
>
>      Regards,
>
>          Martin
>
>

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Martin Desruisseaux <ma...@geomatys.com>.
Hello Jia and all

Thanks for the report. I couldn't attend to the meeting (the link told 
me that I needed a commercial zoom account, maybe I took the wrong 
link). Items about crossing the anti-meridian (date line) and raster I/O 
make me wonder if we could continue progress on integration of Apache 
SIS in Sedona? There is licensing reasons, as Apache projects should not 
depend on LGPL libraries (even if GeoTools is technically an optional 
dependency, can Sedona provides most of its services without it?) But 
there is also technical reasons. Sedona is trying to address some 
difficult tasks. For example, handling the anti-meridian is easy with 
points (just add or subtract 360°), but more difficult when computing 
unions or intersections of envelopes (if longitude crosses 0° in one 
envelope and 180° in the other envelope, none of the [−180° … +180°] and 
[0° … 360°] range conventions will work; the calculation is more 
complicated than just shifting one envelope). Anti-meridian is also a 
difficult problem when resampling geometries or rasters: if the source 
and target CRS are projected, we cannot easily add/subtract a value to 
source/target coordinates. The shift happens somewhere in the middle of 
the coordinate operation chain, and the action to do (add or subtract) 
is not easy to determine. Resolving this problem requires some 
integration between the "referencing" and the "coverage" modules.

Apache SIS tries to address above-cited problems, and more (e.g. 
multi-dimensional support). SIS is based on 25 years of experience and 
on lessons learned from mistakes that we did in GeoTools when we wrote 
its referencing and coverage modules 15 years ago. My concern is that 
Sedona developments that are designed according GeoTools contraints may 
become obstacles after an eventual migration to SIS. For example, SIS 
can handle itself at least some parts of the anti-meridian problem, and 
handling added by Sedona may interfere. Also, Sedona API added recently 
such as BBOX with (minX, maxX, minY, maxY) fields would have possibly be 
done differently if Sedona was built on top of a library supporting 
multi-dimensional data from the ground. I'm concerned that, if there is 
an interest for migrating to SIS, this task will become more and more 
difficult as time passes, and design decisions that could have been more 
generic (less 2D-restricted) will accumulate in Sedona.

For a testimony from someone else who migrated from GeoTools to Apache 
SIS, there is this blog:

    https://www.int.com/blog/how-apache-sis-simplifies-hidden-complexity-coordinate-systems-in-ivaap/

Of course I would be happy to help as much as I can.

     Regards,

         Martin


Re: [ANNOUNCE] Sedona monthly office hour: April 9th (Tuesday): 8 - 9 am Pacific Time

Posted by Jia Yu <ji...@apache.org>.
Dear all,

It was nice talking to many members in the community during the office hour
today! Here is the meeting notes and recording today:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1goh-g1PaF_KO8XQn3YP_Xm8XtLtmudnkB20aUj0JiZw/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Jia

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:41 PM Jia Yu <ji...@apache.org> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> 🎉🎉🎉 The next monthly office hour is on April 9th (Tuesday) from 8 to 9
> am Pacific Time. We will cover Project Updates, a Focus Topic Presentation,
> an Open Discussion and Q&A, and information on the Roadmap and Future
> Plans. It's an excellent opportunity for the community to engage and
> contribute to Apache Sedona's development.
>
> In this office hour, the following topics will be covered:
> 1. Apache Sedona 1.6.0 release timeline
> 2. Implementation of GeoParquet spec 1.1.0
> 3. Shapely 2.0 integration for vector data
> 4. Rasterio and numpy integration for raster data
> 5. Drop Java 8 support
>
> For details and to join, please import the event to your calendar:
> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=TEMPLATE&tmeid=NjI0cWgwcTZndnI1anAzYnFrNHY5Y2wyaTRfMjAyNDA0MDlUMTUwMDAwWiBjX2VmN2Q1NGY1MzA4YTRiN2YyNWFjMzNkMGY3ZWViNTRhM2E3ZjExNWI2ODlmYWY0ZDgyNDI1ZjNjYjVlZGU5MzVAZw&tmsrc=c_ef7d54f5308a4b7f25ac33d0f7eeb54a3a7f115b689faf4d82425f3cb5ede935%40group.calendar.google.com&scp=ALL
>
> To join Zoom Meeting
> https://wherobots.zoom.us/j/91596329826
> Passcode: 508995
>
> Thanks,
> Jia
>