easier IP clearance

[robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>]

apache is part of a larger community of projects with similar goals and
licenses. over the years, apache has helped to provide a governance
model for some of the larger ones. i was wondering whether it would be
possible for projects outside apache to use an compatible structure
without having to create a foundation. 

one of the tasks done by the incubator is IP clearance

closed source contributions typically have clear undisputed legal
ownership and apache obtains a generous license from the legal owner
through a software grant. clearing code from open source projects is
more difficult: there is often no single clear owner and so all
contributors need to be contacted and appropriate permissions obtained. 

i was wondering whether something similar to a CLA could be used by
projects outside the ASF to grant prior permission to the project
originator to import source contributed to the project to apache without
the need to seek permission from each author when the grant is made. 

- robert

Re: easier IP clearance

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Monday 08 January 2007 08:23, Henri Yandell wrote:

> To use an example - can the ASF give code to the FSF? Does the CLA
> give us the ability to hand that code on to someone else?

No. Because FSF (as you noted) requires Copyright Ownership, and that ASF 
doesn't have, hence can't give.

> The FSF system does allow for it to give code to the ASF (I think), so
> it may be that if another project wants to set things up with the
> ability to have easy grants of code to the ASF (or even a CLA that
> makes it very easy), that they would need to have an FSF model of the
> copyright ownership being transferred rather than our model of
> granting?

This seems like an accurate description.

To comment on Robert's original question;

Isn't the issue revolving around "Why does ASF require the Software Grant and 
CLA?", if the code is already Apache licensed? My understanding is that the 
license is not authorative enough, and ASF wants double assurance from the 
Copyright owner that the code is clear, and somewhere to funnel a potential 
future investigation. If that is so, then your proposal is probably not going 
to work.

Cheers
Niclas

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Re: easier IP clearance

[Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>]

Answer was definitely yes (least no one has said no to my yes),
however I'm not sure the CLA is enough to create a system that makes
it easier to send code to the ASF.

To use an example - can the ASF give code to the FSF? Does the CLA
give us the ability to hand that code on to someone else?

The FSF system does allow for it to give code to the ASF (I think), so
it may be that if another project wants to set things up with the
ability to have easy grants of code to the ASF (or even a CLA that
makes it very easy), that they would need to have an FSF model of the
copyright ownership being transferred rather than our model of
granting?

[I suspect I know enough to be dangerous and not enough to be useful].

Hen

On 1/7/07, Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> You might want to have a look at the thread started by Ceki Gulcu called
> "Use of the CLA by outside organizations".
>
> I think the short answer to his question was yes.
>
> Alex
>
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > apache is part of a larger community of projects with similar goals and
> > licenses. over the years, apache has helped to provide a governance
> > model for some of the larger ones. i was wondering whether it would be
> > possible for projects outside apache to use an compatible structure
> > without having to create a foundation.
> >
> > one of the tasks done by the incubator is IP clearance
> >
> > closed source contributions typically have clear undisputed legal
> > ownership and apache obtains a generous license from the legal owner
> > through a software grant. clearing code from open source projects is
> > more difficult: there is often no single clear owner and so all
> > contributors need to be contacted and appropriate permissions obtained.
> >
> > i was wondering whether something similar to a CLA could be used by
> > projects outside the ASF to grant prior permission to the project
> > originator to import source contributed to the project to apache without
> > the need to seek permission from each author when the grant is made.
> >
> > - robert
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> and policies of the ASF.  See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
> official ASF policies and documents.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
>

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only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
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and policies of the ASF.  See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
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Re: easier IP clearance

[Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>]

Robert,

You might want to have a look at the thread started by Ceki Gulcu called 
"Use of the CLA by outside organizations".

I think the short answer to his question was yes.

Alex

robert burrell donkin wrote:
> apache is part of a larger community of projects with similar goals and
> licenses. over the years, apache has helped to provide a governance
> model for some of the larger ones. i was wondering whether it would be
> possible for projects outside apache to use an compatible structure
> without having to create a foundation. 
> 
> one of the tasks done by the incubator is IP clearance
> 
> closed source contributions typically have clear undisputed legal
> ownership and apache obtains a generous license from the legal owner
> through a software grant. clearing code from open source projects is
> more difficult: there is often no single clear owner and so all
> contributors need to be contacted and appropriate permissions obtained. 
> 
> i was wondering whether something similar to a CLA could be used by
> projects outside the ASF to grant prior permission to the project
> originator to import source contributed to the project to apache without
> the need to seek permission from each author when the grant is made. 
> 
> - robert