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Posted to dev@royale.apache.org by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> on 2019/10/16 12:41:44 UTC
[Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Hi,
we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see issue in
GitHub below).
I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
thanks
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>) escribió:
> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be promoted
> on download pages
> URL:
> https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/issues/498#issuecomment-542675010
>
>
> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be the source
> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>
>
> http://apache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com/Need-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html
>
> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list how we want
> it now
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> URL above to go to the specific comment.
>
> For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
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>
>
> With regards,
> Apache Git Services
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Forgot to share the get involved page for you to check actual state:
https://royale.apache.org/get-involved/
Thanks
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:20, Carlos Rovira (<ca...@apache.org>)
escribió:
> Hi,
>
> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
> read I like some of them.
>
> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
> have menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
> subset of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
> page". We can use that.
>
> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to that
> page, so we are done.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is important
>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has approved
>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to provide
>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>>
>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general public is
>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current site
>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the download
>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it harder
>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects that
>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just plan on
>> changing.
>>
>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a chance
>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll leave it
>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>>
>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes you to
>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link is an
>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you should
>> contribute.
>>
>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>>
>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki page in
>> GitHub.
>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what Harbs
>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or "Contributing"
>> menu item
>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many people
>> click it
>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree to
>> the disclaimers.
>>
>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of other
>> things to work on.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>> -Alex
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53@%3Cdev.royale.apache.org%3E
>>
>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev> wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous policy!
>>
>> --
>> Josh Tynjala
>> Bowler Hat LLC <
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=KCzYsqmguuSBdHlWZEq7V%2FgPmPMOa2pw9LFaxyZBTEo%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
>> cautions and
>> > disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see
>> issue in
>> > > GitHub below).
>> > > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>> > >
>> > > thanks
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
>> escribió:
>> > >
>> > > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be
>> > promoted
>> > > > on download pages
>> > > > URL:
>> > > >
>> >
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=%2BGvA%2BRakK5gM5gbVv%2BFVTogTh%2Bb4%2BVNpXOxYYoX%2BFH4%3D&reserved=0
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be
>> the
>> > > source
>> > > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=ZLZ4e9gIq62avxUPbA%2F9zVKTY1%2FjUPVGXH%2FNhF0pBMM%3D&reserved=0
>> > > >
>> > > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list
>> how we
>> > want
>> > > > it now
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
>> > > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
>> > > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
>> > > >
>> > > > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure
>> at:
>> > > > users@infra.apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > With regards,
>> > > > Apache Git Services
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Carlos Rovira
>> > >
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=UKrC2WmUUtQhs8Hwx%2FVA2%2Fl66k23ajS6FXMGx8zjqWg%3D&reserved=0
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andrew Wetmore
>> >
>> >
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=3W%2FSGSLlBPA4JB8tA4BLy5J%2BeGiMHzNPhC6Lt9nY1so%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I switch to latest Harbs phrase. Hopefully it should be fine for now.
About website, I have some ideas in mind. I think the actual version
covered the needs to allow us to work on Royale while getting something
appropriate and appealing to newcomers, but as we are getting a more
consolidated framework we could spend some time on things like more visual
home and features page (still incomplete and need more attention) and even
get rid of the Wordpress dependency if possible to rely on GitHub pages now
that at least I have a better knowledge on how to develop it. I have
visual ideas in mind, but I think for now docs and some ASDoc look and feel
improvements have more priority.
Thanks
El jue., 17 oct. 2019 a las 6:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> I think our invitation to become a committer by getting source code or
> getting involved should be emphasized more, but I'm not doing the work on
> the website. IMO, we've hit the point of diminishing returns. Carlos
> should do something quick and simple to make the ASF happy unless he has
> time and energy to do more.
>
> In theory, we should be friendly enough to add the link to the nightlies
> in the emails we send to folks on dev@ so they don't have to go looking
> for it on our website. And if they forgot and deleted the email with the
> link, it is in the archives. It really should be rare for someone to need
> to remind themselves of the link by finding it on the website.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
> On 10/16/19, 2:10 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe something like this would be better?
>
> Source Code
>
> For developers who want to get involved in framework development,
> source code and nightly build download links can be found on our get
> involved page <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=xBp3SsuxsqWdXaDEUDLWZChgra%2BDUVJqr1bCUFyNGMA%3D&reserved=0
> >.
>
> > On Oct 16, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure how that is better than the disclaimer that was there.
> But if you feel it is important, we'll find out when the page gets reviewed
> again.
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 10/16/19, 12:44 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think we should add a section to the download page about
> nightly builds. Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not
> know where to find it.
> >
> > Something like:
> >
> > We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as
> they have not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly
> builds are useful if you want to get involved in framework development are
> are prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build
> download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
> >
> > Harbs
> >
> >> On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlosrovira@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I did it in pre:
> >>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fdownload%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=8FZhtsvW5EJG8TmW4S%2BAdk7AtbsO%2Bl6UIB%2BfzLZ5YSA%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=xBp3SsuxsqWdXaDEUDLWZChgra%2BDUVJqr1bCUFyNGMA%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >> will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui
> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> >> escribió:
> >>
> >>> Sounds ok to me.
> >>>
> >>> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For
> what I
> >>> read I like some of them.
> >>>
> >>> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with
> forget we
> >>> have
> >>> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are
> only a
> >>> subset
> >>> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
> >>> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a
> new
> >>> page".
> >>> We can use that.
> >>>
> >>> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds
> section to
> >>> that
> >>> page, so we are done.
> >>>
> >>> Let me know what you think.
> >>>
> >>> Carlos
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
> >>> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> >>> escribió:
> >>>
> >>>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
> >>> important
> >>>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
> >>> approved
> >>>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
> >>> provide
> >>>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
> >>>>
> >>>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is
> being
> >>>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
> >>> public is
> >>>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the
> current
> >>> site
> >>>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
> >>> download
> >>>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
> >>>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is
> to
> >>>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
> >>> harder
> >>>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other
> projects
> >>> that
> >>>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I
> went
> >>>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
> >>> plan on
> >>>> changing.
> >>>>
> >>>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
> >>> chance
> >>>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to
> include
> >>>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
> >>> leave it
> >>>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
> >>>>
> >>>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is
> almost
> >>>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks
> to
> >>>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that
> takes
> >>> you to
> >>>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub
> link
> >>> is an
> >>>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
> >>> should
> >>>> contribute.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
> >>> page in
> >>>> GitHub.
> >>>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to
> what
> >>> Harbs
> >>>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
> >>>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
> >>> "Contributing"
> >>>> menu item
> >>>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
> >>> people
> >>>> click it
> >>>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must
> agree
> >>> to the
> >>>> disclaimers.
> >>>>
> >>>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
> >>> other
> >>>> things to work on.
> >>>>
> >>>> My 2 cents,
> >>>> -Alex
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=Y14jpwliSfyW3c4Viyp6PVBqAPIvvaBTPT1lWLs3Aw0%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
> >>> policy!
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Josh Tynjala
> >>>> Bowler Hat LLC <
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=a6QVqgxZV9EMSdiww%2BgzktZK8WRxbMlAD%2BU7lvZU1mM%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
> >>> cottage14@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
> >>>> cautions and
> >>>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
> >>>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
> >>> (see
> >>>> issue in
> >>>>>> GitHub below).
> >>>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
> >>>> escribió:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
> >>> not be
> >>>>> promoted
> >>>>>>> on download pages
> >>>>>>> URL:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=eOR96wvvQS%2BQdMZuyE1yjztF1cmBcLvuTCWJoQ4gOJw%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
> >>> to be
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> source
> >>>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=q%2BfR62sMqdlvXaS0rccNFpWc1%2BULnLILbcclQxZ3Jck%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
> >>> list
> >>>> how we
> >>>>> want
> >>>>>>> it now
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> >>>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
> >>> Infrastructure at:
> >>>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> With regards,
> >>>>>>> Apache Git Services
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=o1YHtOg27HFSOVWhSY2SyxV3VL9QqwzkbAbZR7HbWwM%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Andrew Wetmore
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=2uTpbo0dM7kSIRwwNnmzA580NtlcmNEYPaQ%2F08yPaYk%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>
> >>>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328541214&sdata=uyA%2Fp66KyBLVmijgvtYTlpKFy3SmRxFQQiPz2Fa1aLQ%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carlos Rovira
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328541214&sdata=uyA%2Fp66KyBLVmijgvtYTlpKFy3SmRxFQQiPz2Fa1aLQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I think our invitation to become a committer by getting source code or getting involved should be emphasized more, but I'm not doing the work on the website. IMO, we've hit the point of diminishing returns. Carlos should do something quick and simple to make the ASF happy unless he has time and energy to do more.
In theory, we should be friendly enough to add the link to the nightlies in the emails we send to folks on dev@ so they don't have to go looking for it on our website. And if they forgot and deleted the email with the link, it is in the archives. It really should be rare for someone to need to remind themselves of the link by finding it on the website.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
On 10/16/19, 2:10 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe something like this would be better?
Source Code
For developers who want to get involved in framework development, source code and nightly build download links can be found on our get involved page <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=xBp3SsuxsqWdXaDEUDLWZChgra%2BDUVJqr1bCUFyNGMA%3D&reserved=0>.
> On Oct 16, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how that is better than the disclaimer that was there. But if you feel it is important, we'll find out when the page gets reviewed again.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 10/16/19, 12:44 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think we should add a section to the download page about nightly builds. Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not know where to find it.
>
> Something like:
>
> We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as they have not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly builds are useful if you want to get involved in framework development are are prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
>
> Harbs
>
>> On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did it in pre:
>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fdownload%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=8FZhtsvW5EJG8TmW4S%2BAdk7AtbsO%2Bl6UIB%2BfzLZ5YSA%3D&reserved=0
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=xBp3SsuxsqWdXaDEUDLWZChgra%2BDUVJqr1bCUFyNGMA%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Sounds ok to me.
>>>
>>> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
>>> read I like some of them.
>>>
>>> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
>>> have
>>> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
>>> subset
>>> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
>>> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
>>> page".
>>> We can use that.
>>>
>>> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
>>> that
>>> page, so we are done.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
>>> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
>>> important
>>>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
>>> approved
>>>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
>>> provide
>>>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
>>>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
>>> public is
>>>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
>>> site
>>>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
>>> download
>>>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
>>>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
>>>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
>>> harder
>>>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
>>> that
>>>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
>>>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
>>> plan on
>>>> changing.
>>>>
>>>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
>>> chance
>>>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
>>>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
>>> leave it
>>>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>>>>
>>>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
>>>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
>>>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
>>> you to
>>>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
>>> is an
>>>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
>>> should
>>>> contribute.
>>>>
>>>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
>>> page in
>>>> GitHub.
>>>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
>>> Harbs
>>>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
>>>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
>>> "Contributing"
>>>> menu item
>>>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
>>> people
>>>> click it
>>>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
>>> to the
>>>> disclaimers.
>>>>
>>>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
>>> other
>>>> things to work on.
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>> -Alex
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=Y14jpwliSfyW3c4Viyp6PVBqAPIvvaBTPT1lWLs3Aw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
>>> policy!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Josh Tynjala
>>>> Bowler Hat LLC <
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=a6QVqgxZV9EMSdiww%2BgzktZK8WRxbMlAD%2BU7lvZU1mM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
>>> cottage14@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
>>>> cautions and
>>>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
>>>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
>>> (see
>>>> issue in
>>>>>> GitHub below).
>>>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
>>>> escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
>>> not be
>>>>> promoted
>>>>>>> on download pages
>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=eOR96wvvQS%2BQdMZuyE1yjztF1cmBcLvuTCWJoQ4gOJw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
>>> to be
>>>> the
>>>>>> source
>>>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=q%2BfR62sMqdlvXaS0rccNFpWc1%2BULnLILbcclQxZ3Jck%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
>>> list
>>>> how we
>>>>> want
>>>>>>> it now
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
>>>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
>>> the
>>>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
>>> Infrastructure at:
>>>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>>> Apache Git Services
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=o1YHtOg27HFSOVWhSY2SyxV3VL9QqwzkbAbZR7HbWwM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Wetmore
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328531253&sdata=2uTpbo0dM7kSIRwwNnmzA580NtlcmNEYPaQ%2F08yPaYk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328541214&sdata=uyA%2Fp66KyBLVmijgvtYTlpKFy3SmRxFQQiPz2Fa1aLQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C64952ecd61b0454f330308d7527d4741%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068570328541214&sdata=uyA%2Fp66KyBLVmijgvtYTlpKFy3SmRxFQQiPz2Fa1aLQ%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
Maybe something like this would be better?
Source Code
For developers who want to get involved in framework development, source code and nightly build download links can be found on our get involved page <https://royale.codeoscopic.com/get-involved/>.
> On Oct 16, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how that is better than the disclaimer that was there. But if you feel it is important, we'll find out when the page gets reviewed again.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 10/16/19, 12:44 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think we should add a section to the download page about nightly builds. Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not know where to find it.
>
> Something like:
>
> We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as they have not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly builds are useful if you want to get involved in framework development are are prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
>
> Harbs
>
>> On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did it in pre:
>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fdownload%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=lPNkT%2Ba%2BS%2BpjtmVchfpX726g4a4zlgTMhf8SUYeh2xc%3D&reserved=0
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=kFpobNSVuN1%2FItk5YMO%2BzikIzqzMYq%2FFnqf8jQUJ68w%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Sounds ok to me.
>>>
>>> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
>>> read I like some of them.
>>>
>>> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
>>> have
>>> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
>>> subset
>>> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
>>> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
>>> page".
>>> We can use that.
>>>
>>> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
>>> that
>>> page, so we are done.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
>>> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
>>> important
>>>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
>>> approved
>>>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
>>> provide
>>>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
>>>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
>>> public is
>>>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
>>> site
>>>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
>>> download
>>>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
>>>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
>>>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
>>> harder
>>>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
>>> that
>>>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
>>>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
>>> plan on
>>>> changing.
>>>>
>>>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
>>> chance
>>>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
>>>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
>>> leave it
>>>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>>>>
>>>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
>>>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
>>>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
>>> you to
>>>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
>>> is an
>>>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
>>> should
>>>> contribute.
>>>>
>>>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
>>> page in
>>>> GitHub.
>>>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
>>> Harbs
>>>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
>>>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
>>> "Contributing"
>>>> menu item
>>>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
>>> people
>>>> click it
>>>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
>>> to the
>>>> disclaimers.
>>>>
>>>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
>>> other
>>>> things to work on.
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>> -Alex
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=Ws4Zt99nKu8dy9mZP0Ba%2BU67gSL4QEoZnwWzwJzWYCw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
>>> policy!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Josh Tynjala
>>>> Bowler Hat LLC <
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=CJke9FECX4nnHHXQQf1oZoWctQf6nI%2F%2BEz24eRiIX4I%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
>>> cottage14@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
>>>> cautions and
>>>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
>>>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
>>> (see
>>>> issue in
>>>>>> GitHub below).
>>>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
>>>> escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
>>> not be
>>>>> promoted
>>>>>>> on download pages
>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=HinFeuM03GBRTmoLUPABbTqOIi0SXZfOht46dHA9osw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
>>> to be
>>>> the
>>>>>> source
>>>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=N8O%2F3yZWs01b5BULNR20knXuda6doU36SUnjVWO0NdU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
>>> list
>>>> how we
>>>>> want
>>>>>>> it now
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
>>>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
>>> the
>>>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
>>> Infrastructure at:
>>>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>>> Apache Git Services
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew Wetmore
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=3Uw%2BLBI9LLXgMfWKsuxbyzQc505AHvj3LFpMqdViPf8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I'm not sure how that is better than the disclaimer that was there. But if you feel it is important, we'll find out when the page gets reviewed again.
-Alex
On 10/16/19, 12:44 PM, "Harbs" <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should add a section to the download page about nightly builds. Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not know where to find it.
Something like:
We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as they have not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly builds are useful if you want to get involved in framework development are are prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
Harbs
> On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I did it in pre:
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fdownload%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=lPNkT%2Ba%2BS%2BpjtmVchfpX726g4a4zlgTMhf8SUYeh2xc%3D&reserved=0
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyale.codeoscopic.com%2Fget-involved%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=kFpobNSVuN1%2FItk5YMO%2BzikIzqzMYq%2FFnqf8jQUJ68w%3D&reserved=0
>
> will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
>
> thanks
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
>> Sounds ok to me.
>>
>> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
>> read I like some of them.
>>
>> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
>> have
>> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
>> subset
>> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
>> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
>> page".
>> We can use that.
>>
>> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
>> that
>> page, so we are done.
>>
>> Let me know what you think.
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
>> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>> escribió:
>>
>>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
>> important
>>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
>> approved
>>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
>> provide
>>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>>>
>>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
>>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
>> public is
>>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
>> site
>>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
>> download
>>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
>>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
>>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
>> harder
>>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
>> that
>>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
>>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
>> plan on
>>> changing.
>>>
>>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
>> chance
>>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
>>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
>> leave it
>>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>>>
>>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
>>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
>>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
>> you to
>>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
>> is an
>>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
>> should
>>> contribute.
>>>
>>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>>>
>>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
>> page in
>>> GitHub.
>>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
>> Harbs
>>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
>>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
>> "Contributing"
>>> menu item
>>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
>> people
>>> click it
>>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
>> to the
>>> disclaimers.
>>>
>>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
>> other
>>> things to work on.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=Ws4Zt99nKu8dy9mZP0Ba%2BU67gSL4QEoZnwWzwJzWYCw%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
>> policy!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Josh Tynjala
>>> Bowler Hat LLC <
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=CJke9FECX4nnHHXQQf1oZoWctQf6nI%2F%2BEz24eRiIX4I%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
>> cottage14@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
>>> cautions and
>>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
>>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
>> (see
>>> issue in
>>>>> GitHub below).
>>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
>>> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
>> not be
>>>> promoted
>>>>>> on download pages
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=HinFeuM03GBRTmoLUPABbTqOIi0SXZfOht46dHA9osw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
>> to be
>>> the
>>>>> source
>>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597745376&sdata=N8O%2F3yZWs01b5BULNR20knXuda6doU36SUnjVWO0NdU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
>> list
>>> how we
>>>> want
>>>>>> it now
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
>>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
>> the
>>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
>> Infrastructure at:
>>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>> Apache Git Services
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Wetmore
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=3Uw%2BLBI9LLXgMfWKsuxbyzQc505AHvj3LFpMqdViPf8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cdd9337709d634d42b24808d752713be1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068518597755369&sdata=zxapqv8Mk2G9QWCXNoWZnTuCtpcMGDNqJPIzg%2B2MG80%3D&reserved=0
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Updated with your suggestion Harbs: https://royale.codeoscopic.com/download/
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:44, Harbs (<ha...@gmail.com>) escribió:
> I think we should add a section to the download page about nightly builds.
> Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not know where to find
> it.
>
> Something like:
>
> We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as they have
> not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly builds are
> useful if you want to get involved in framework development are are
> prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build
> download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I did it in pre:
> >
> > https://royale.codeoscopic.com/download/
> > https://royale.codeoscopic.com/get-involved/
> >
> > will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> >)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Sounds ok to me.
> >>
> >> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For
> what I
> >> read I like some of them.
> >>
> >> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget
> we
> >> have
> >> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
> >> subset
> >> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
> >> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
> >> page".
> >> We can use that.
> >>
> >> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
> >> that
> >> page, so we are done.
> >>
> >> Let me know what you think.
> >>
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
> >> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> >> escribió:
> >>
> >>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
> >> important
> >>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
> >> approved
> >>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
> >> provide
> >>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
> >>>
> >>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
> >>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
> >> public is
> >>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
> >> site
> >>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
> >> download
> >>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
> >>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
> >>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
> >> harder
> >>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
> >> that
> >>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
> >>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
> >> plan on
> >>> changing.
> >>>
> >>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
> >> chance
> >>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
> >>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
> >> leave it
> >>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
> >>>
> >>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
> >>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
> >>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
> >> you to
> >>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
> >> is an
> >>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
> >> should
> >>> contribute.
> >>>
> >>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
> >>>
> >>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
> >> page in
> >>> GitHub.
> >>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
> >> Harbs
> >>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
> >>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
> >> "Contributing"
> >>> menu item
> >>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
> >> people
> >>> click it
> >>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
> >> to the
> >>> disclaimers.
> >>>
> >>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
> >> other
> >>> things to work on.
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents,
> >>> -Alex
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=2LPwIowIFGZmQ%2FzCMYeq8xPcXKJKBQPPkqpX41U3V40%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
> >> policy!
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Josh Tynjala
> >>> Bowler Hat LLC <
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=NquMJTtJe9gbR1%2FnBTzhxcviBJ4YJP1gwF6vSXMBzSE%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
> >> cottage14@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
> >>> cautions and
> >>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
> >>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
> >> (see
> >>> issue in
> >>>>> GitHub below).
> >>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
> >>> escribió:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
> >> not be
> >>>> promoted
> >>>>>> on download pages
> >>>>>> URL:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=Z6dNjKh0aqBGikhqbsyBdU4vjPWVmU5WVbjttchDqv0%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
> >> to be
> >>> the
> >>>>> source
> >>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=E%2FKOMhp%2BiAXYz0J4x6OirDdMrygkD5vIzxyrfDI8aWc%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
> >> list
> >>> how we
> >>>> want
> >>>>>> it now
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> >>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
> >> the
> >>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
> >> Infrastructure at:
> >>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With regards,
> >>>>>> Apache Git Services
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Andrew Wetmore
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=kbtpYHjg2iy8yLowfz0EGQ7qWv3e5%2BWt7cLn7qGw5cs%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carlos Rovira
> >>
> >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
I think we should add a section to the download page about nightly builds. Someone who is looking for the nightly builds might not know where to find it.
Something like:
We do not recommend nightly builds for application developers as they have not been properly tested and can have serious bugs. Nightly builds are useful if you want to get involved in framework development are are prepared to work with bleeding edge code. Source code and nightly build download links can be found on our “get involved” page[link].
Harbs
> On Oct 16, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I did it in pre:
>
> https://royale.codeoscopic.com/download/
> https://royale.codeoscopic.com/get-involved/
>
> will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
>
> thanks
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
>> Sounds ok to me.
>>
>> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
>> read I like some of them.
>>
>> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
>> have
>> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
>> subset
>> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
>> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
>> page".
>> We can use that.
>>
>> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
>> that
>> page, so we are done.
>>
>> Let me know what you think.
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
>> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
>> escribió:
>>
>>> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
>> important
>>> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
>> approved
>>> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
>> provide
>>> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>>>
>>> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
>>> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
>> public is
>>> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
>> site
>>> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
>> download
>>> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
>>> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
>>> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
>> harder
>>> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
>> that
>>> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
>>> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
>> plan on
>>> changing.
>>>
>>> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
>> chance
>>> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
>>> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
>> leave it
>>> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>>>
>>> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
>>> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
>>> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
>> you to
>>> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
>> is an
>>> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
>> should
>>> contribute.
>>>
>>> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>>>
>>> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
>> page in
>>> GitHub.
>>> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
>> Harbs
>>> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
>>> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
>> "Contributing"
>>> menu item
>>> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
>> people
>>> click it
>>> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
>> to the
>>> disclaimers.
>>>
>>> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
>> other
>>> things to work on.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=2LPwIowIFGZmQ%2FzCMYeq8xPcXKJKBQPPkqpX41U3V40%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
>> policy!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Josh Tynjala
>>> Bowler Hat LLC <
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=NquMJTtJe9gbR1%2FnBTzhxcviBJ4YJP1gwF6vSXMBzSE%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
>> cottage14@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
>>> cautions and
>>>> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
>>> carlosrovira@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
>> (see
>>> issue in
>>>>> GitHub below).
>>>>> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
>>> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
>> not be
>>>> promoted
>>>>>> on download pages
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=Z6dNjKh0aqBGikhqbsyBdU4vjPWVmU5WVbjttchDqv0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
>> to be
>>> the
>>>>> source
>>>>>> of the actual state for nightly on download page:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=E%2FKOMhp%2BiAXYz0J4x6OirDdMrygkD5vIzxyrfDI8aWc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
>> list
>>> how we
>>>> want
>>>>>> it now
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
>>>>>> To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
>> the
>>>>>> URL above to go to the specific comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For queries about this service, please contact
>> Infrastructure at:
>>>>>> users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>> Apache Git Services
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Wetmore
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=kbtpYHjg2iy8yLowfz0EGQ7qWv3e5%2BWt7cLn7qGw5cs%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I did it in pre:
https://royale.codeoscopic.com/download/
https://royale.codeoscopic.com/get-involved/
will push it tomorrow if nobody suggest any other change
thanks
Carlos
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 21:27, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> Sounds ok to me.
>
> On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
> read I like some of them.
>
> We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we
> have
> menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a
> subset
> of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
> With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new
> page".
> We can use that.
>
> What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to
> that
> page, so we are done.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui
> (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
> > The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is
> important
> > that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has
> approved
> > as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to
> provide
> > a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
> >
> > I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
> > interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general
> public is
> > being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current
> site
> > reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the
> download
> > page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
> > disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
> > continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it
> harder
> > to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects
> that
> > used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
> > looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just
> plan on
> > changing.
> >
> > I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a
> chance
> > that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
> > separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll
> leave it
> > up to those who are doing the work to decide.
> >
> > IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
> > entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
> > contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes
> you to
> > is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link
> is an
> > implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you
> should
> > contribute.
> >
> > So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
> >
> > 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki
> page in
> > GitHub.
> > 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what
> Harbs
> > suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
> > 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or
> "Contributing"
> > menu item
> > 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many
> people
> > click it
> > 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree
> to the
> > disclaimers.
> >
> > I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of
> other
> > things to work on.
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> > -Alex
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=2LPwIowIFGZmQ%2FzCMYeq8xPcXKJKBQPPkqpX41U3V40%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous
> policy!
> >
> > --
> > Josh Tynjala
> > Bowler Hat LLC <
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=NquMJTtJe9gbR1%2FnBTzhxcviBJ4YJP1gwF6vSXMBzSE%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <
> cottage14@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
> > cautions and
> > > disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
> > carlosrovira@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page
> (see
> > issue in
> > > > GitHub below).
> > > > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
> > escribió:
> > > >
> > > > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must
> not be
> > > promoted
> > > > > on download pages
> > > > > URL:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=Z6dNjKh0aqBGikhqbsyBdU4vjPWVmU5WVbjttchDqv0%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems
> to be
> > the
> > > > source
> > > > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=E%2FKOMhp%2BiAXYz0J4x6OirDdMrygkD5vIzxyrfDI8aWc%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >
> > > > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in
> list
> > how we
> > > want
> > > > > it now
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > > > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use
> the
> > > > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > For queries about this service, please contact
> Infrastructure at:
> > > > > users@infra.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > With regards,
> > > > > Apache Git Services
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carlos Rovira
> > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Wetmore
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=kbtpYHjg2iy8yLowfz0EGQ7qWv3e5%2BWt7cLn7qGw5cs%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
Sounds ok to me.
On 10/16/19, 12:21 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi,
thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
read I like some of them.
We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we have
menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a subset
of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new page".
We can use that.
What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to that
page, so we are done.
Let me know what you think.
Carlos
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is important
> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has approved
> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to provide
> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>
> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general public is
> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current site
> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the download
> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it harder
> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects that
> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just plan on
> changing.
>
> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a chance
> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll leave it
> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>
> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes you to
> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link is an
> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you should
> contribute.
>
> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>
> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki page in
> GitHub.
> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what Harbs
> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or "Contributing"
> menu item
> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many people
> click it
> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree to the
> disclaimers.
>
> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of other
> things to work on.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
> [1]
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2F8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53%40%253Cdev.royale.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=2LPwIowIFGZmQ%2FzCMYeq8xPcXKJKBQPPkqpX41U3V40%3D&reserved=0
>
> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev> wrote:
>
> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous policy!
>
> --
> Josh Tynjala
> Bowler Hat LLC <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=NquMJTtJe9gbR1%2FnBTzhxcviBJ4YJP1gwF6vSXMBzSE%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
> cautions and
> > disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
> carlosrovira@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see
> issue in
> > > GitHub below).
> > > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
> escribió:
> > >
> > > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be
> > promoted
> > > > on download pages
> > > > URL:
> > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=Z6dNjKh0aqBGikhqbsyBdU4vjPWVmU5WVbjttchDqv0%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be
> the
> > > source
> > > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849942445&sdata=E%2FKOMhp%2BiAXYz0J4x6OirDdMrygkD5vIzxyrfDI8aWc%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list
> how we
> > want
> > > > it now
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> > > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> > > >
> > > > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
> > > > users@infra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > With regards,
> > > > Apache Git Services
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Rovira
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=kbtpYHjg2iy8yLowfz0EGQ7qWv3e5%2BWt7cLn7qGw5cs%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3069e9eec31c4fc643fd08d7526e02de%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068504849952441&sdata=lSw72rs2eai5YLdYdlkNczbbOARD8OrWrvHh5WVCAfA%3D&reserved=0
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi,
thanks all for sharing ideas on how to deal with this issue. For what I
read I like some of them.
We already have a "Get Involved" page (most of the time with forget we have
menu options in the footer bar and top level menu options are only a subset
of what we think "most important" for newcomers).
With that page in mind, I think we have solve the "creation of a new page".
We can use that.
What I see more easy is then is to move the nightly builds section to that
page, so we are done.
Let me know what you think.
Carlos
El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 18:38, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is important
> that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has approved
> as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to provide
> a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
>
> I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being
> interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general public is
> being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current site
> reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the download
> page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get
> disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to
> continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it harder
> to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects that
> used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went
> looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just plan on
> changing.
>
> I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a chance
> that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include
> separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll leave it
> up to those who are doing the work to decide.
>
> IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost
> entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to
> contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes you to
> is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link is an
> implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you should
> contribute.
>
> So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
>
> 1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki page in
> GitHub.
> 2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what Harbs
> suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
> 3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or "Contributing"
> menu item
> 4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many people
> click it
> 5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree to the
> disclaimers.
>
> I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of other
> things to work on.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53@%3Cdev.royale.apache.org%3E
>
> On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev> wrote:
>
> Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous policy!
>
> --
> Josh Tynjala
> Bowler Hat LLC <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=KCzYsqmguuSBdHlWZEq7V%2FgPmPMOa2pw9LFaxyZBTEo%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with
> cautions and
> > disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <
> carlosrovira@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see
> issue in
> > > GitHub below).
> > > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>)
> escribió:
> > >
> > > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be
> > promoted
> > > > on download pages
> > > > URL:
> > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=%2BGvA%2BRakK5gM5gbVv%2BFVTogTh%2Bb4%2BVNpXOxYYoX%2BFH4%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be
> the
> > > source
> > > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=ZLZ4e9gIq62avxUPbA%2F9zVKTY1%2FjUPVGXH%2FNhF0pBMM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list
> how we
> > want
> > > > it now
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> > > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> > > >
> > > > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
> > > > users@infra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > With regards,
> > > > Apache Git Services
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Rovira
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=UKrC2WmUUtQhs8Hwx%2FVA2%2Fl66k23ajS6FXMGx8zjqWg%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=3W%2FSGSLlBPA4JB8tA4BLy5J%2BeGiMHzNPhC6Lt9nY1so%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
The principle behind the policy is not ridiculous. AIUI, it is important that the general public only downloads artifacts that the PMC has approved as an act of the foundation, otherwise the foundation's ability to provide a legal shield for release managers is weakened.
I mostly agree that the way the word "might" in the policy is being interpreted is "ridiculous". I really don't think the general public is being encouraged to download our nightly builds the way the current site reads. However, both Justin and I warned about the wording on the download page [1] before it went live because we've seen other projects get disrupted by similar nitpicking. AFAICT, the trend at the ASF is to continue to be more restrictive about the word "might" and make it harder to find links to nightly builds on project websites. Other projects that used to have links or links "below the fold" no longer do when I went looking just now. It won't be worth it to fight it, so let's just plan on changing.
I see other projects with separate pages, but there is always a chance that someday the word "might" will be restricted even more to include separate pages. I'm not making the changes to the site, so I'll leave it up to those who are doing the work to decide.
IMO, with that in mind, when I look at the current site, it is almost entirely tuned towards our users. The only place we invite folks to contribute is way down on the landing page. And the page that takes you to is about mailing lists. I guess you could say that the GitHub link is an implied indicator that we're an open source project and that you should contribute.
So, here are my ideas. Feel free to reject them all:
1) Move the nightly build portion of the download page to a wiki page in GitHub.
2) Add a "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item similar to what Harbs suggested that goes to a different page like Andrew suggested
3) Replace the GitHub menu item with the "Get Involved" or "Contributing" menu item
4) Add analytics to the nightly build links so we can see how many people click it
5) Add a popup to the link to the nightly build so folks must agree to the disclaimers.
I recommend that we just do #1 and move on. We've got plenty of other things to work on.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8564ab5687c631bd4961bf8b987a5e9d30d6673d5050f72b8a9aaa53@%3Cdev.royale.apache.org%3E
On 10/16/19, 7:08 AM, "Josh Tynjala" <jo...@bowlerhat.dev> wrote:
Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous policy!
--
Josh Tynjala
Bowler Hat LLC <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbowlerhat.dev&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=KCzYsqmguuSBdHlWZEq7V%2FgPmPMOa2pw9LFaxyZBTEo%3D&reserved=0>
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with cautions and
> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see issue in
> > GitHub below).
> > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>) escribió:
> >
> > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be
> promoted
> > > on download pages
> > > URL:
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F498%23issuecomment-542675010&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=%2BGvA%2BRakK5gM5gbVv%2BFVTogTh%2Bb4%2BVNpXOxYYoX%2BFH4%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be the
> > source
> > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2FNeed-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=ZLZ4e9gIq62avxUPbA%2F9zVKTY1%2FjUPVGXH%2FNhF0pBMM%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list how we
> want
> > > it now
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> > >
> > > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
> > > users@infra.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Apache Git Services
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=UKrC2WmUUtQhs8Hwx%2FVA2%2Fl66k23ajS6FXMGx8zjqWg%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cc5a1640a5e5c45c5b09708d752424c48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637068317009834112&sdata=3W%2FSGSLlBPA4JB8tA4BLy5J%2BeGiMHzNPhC6Lt9nY1so%3D&reserved=0
>
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Josh Tynjala <jo...@bowlerhat.dev>.
Hopefully a separate public page is allowed. What a ridiculous policy!
--
Josh Tynjala
Bowler Hat LLC <https://bowlerhat.dev>
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:30 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with cautions and
> disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see issue in
> > GitHub below).
> > I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>) escribió:
> >
> > > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be
> promoted
> > > on download pages
> > > URL:
> > >
> https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/issues/498#issuecomment-542675010
> > >
> > >
> > > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be the
> > source
> > > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://apache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com/Need-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html
> > >
> > > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list how we
> want
> > > it now
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> > > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> > >
> > > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
> > > users@infra.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Apache Git Services
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [Discussion] Where Nightly builds links must be located (we must
remove it from download page)
Posted by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>.
Can they have their own dedicated page, wreathed around with cautions and
disclaimers to scare away folks who should not be using them?
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 9:42 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we get request to remove Nightly builds from download page (see issue in
> GitHub below).
> I open this thread to discuss where is better place for it.
>
> thanks
>
>
> El mié., 16 oct. 2019 a las 14:26, GitBox (<gi...@apache.org>) escribió:
>
> > carlosrovira commented on issue #498: Nightly builds must not be promoted
> > on download pages
> > URL:
> > https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/issues/498#issuecomment-542675010
> >
> >
> > I searched to the place in our mailing list that seems to be the
> source
> > of the actual state for nightly on download page:
> >
> >
> >
> http://apache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com/Need-help-with-CSS-class-selector-font-family-is-always-Arial-tp1418p1485.html
> >
> > I think If we want to change it we need to discuss in list how we want
> > it now
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service.
> > To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the
> > URL above to go to the specific comment.
> >
> > For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at:
> > users@infra.apache.org
> >
> >
> > With regards,
> > Apache Git Services
> >
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/