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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by "Daniel F. Savarese" <df...@savarese.org> on 2007/03/03 23:08:39 UTC
Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
In message <45...@mvdb.net>, Martin van den Bemt writes:
>The strength of this list should be is that with a lot of hands the chance tha
>t nothing happens when
>there is activity is minimized. If someone has an hour to spare, it could very
> well be useful to
>apply a patch and mentor people.
Vadim has regexp covered and I have oro covered as far as maintenance
requests go, but no, I don't think either project merits its own
separate -dev and -user lists anymore. The trick is getting users who
want new features (as opposed to maintenance like bug fixing) to contribute
new features instead of always expecting the maintainers to add them
(e.g., Commons Net has been pretty successful in attracting user
contributed features). But regexp and oro are special cases which will
likely see no new features in the future, having been rendered obsolete
by standardization of the functionality they provide in the Java core api.
>Since I don't like to extend the scope of the general list, I prefer dev discu
>ssion not to take
>place there.
>
>Thoughts ?
As long as user traffic can go to general, it sounds okay. Most, if not all,
activity will be triggered by users (who won't be subscribed to dev), so
I'd think at least some threads should be permitted to start on general
and then migrate to dev if there is follow-on development related discussion.
daniel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> I think it is a bad idea. Either a project is alive or it is dead and
> most of the dead are not coming back. The site, the project and
> everything else should reflect this.
>
> I suggest that:
>
> 1. ECS
> 2. ORO
> 3. Regexp
> 4. Alexandria (already does basically)
Was closed down about a year ago.
>
> all have a page that looks like this one:
> http://avalon.apache.org/closed.html
>
> Stating that the projects are dead and state what things have taken
> their place and provide links. There is
> no need for an artificial "dev" list or "users" list. Just close the
> lists. (If you disagree look at the list archive for
> each over the last 6 months and see if you REALLY disagree in more than
> THEORY).
I know how the lists look like, I am subscribed to all Jakarta lists (bugzilla is the most active
developer on these lists ;). These projects may be dead currently from a developer perspective
(ignoring Daniels mail here for a moment), but hardly from a user perspective. And there is
currently talk amongst users on eg ecs to potentially start activity. I like that to get more
visibility and opportunity, which is now "hidden" in the ecs lists.
Also I like the message on a website to contain something more than just the message "this project
is dead" with some links. I rather state how people can get active on these projects again and I
like to point them to a central dev list, instead a (potentially) forgotten dev list.
When you want to close down the user list, should we point people to the general list for their
support questions (which doesn't happen often, but it happens) ?
Mvgr,
Martin
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@buni.org>.
Whoa...my uncle is back from the dead.
-Andy
Michael Oliver wrote:
>
> We aren't related, but I agree with Andy.
>
> Michael Oliver
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@buni.org]
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 3:17 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
>
> I think it is a bad idea. Either a project is alive or it is dead and most
> of the dead are not coming back. The site, the project and everything else
> should reflect this.
>
> I suggest that:
>
> 1. ECS
> 2. ORO
> 3. Regexp
> 4. Alexandria (already does basically)
>
> all have a page that looks like this one:
> http://avalon.apache.org/closed.html
>
> Stating that the projects are dead and state what things have taken their
> place and provide links. There is no need for an artificial "dev" list or
> "users" list. Just close the lists. (If you disagree look at the list
> archive for each over the last 6 months and see if you REALLY disagree in
> more than THEORY).
>
> -Andy
>
> Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
>> Maybe a user@jakarta.apache.org. I see general as being the list for
>> jakarta wide discussions and not so much a list of asking specific
>>
> questions about components..
>
>> Mvgr,
>> Martin
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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RE: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
Posted by Michael Oliver <ol...@alariussystems.com>.
We aren't related, but I agree with Andy.
Michael Oliver
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@buni.org]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 3:17 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
I think it is a bad idea. Either a project is alive or it is dead and most
of the dead are not coming back. The site, the project and everything else
should reflect this.
I suggest that:
1. ECS
2. ORO
3. Regexp
4. Alexandria (already does basically)
all have a page that looks like this one:
http://avalon.apache.org/closed.html
Stating that the projects are dead and state what things have taken their
place and provide links. There is no need for an artificial "dev" list or
"users" list. Just close the lists. (If you disagree look at the list
archive for each over the last 6 months and see if you REALLY disagree in
more than THEORY).
-Andy
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
> Maybe a user@jakarta.apache.org. I see general as being the list for
> jakarta wide discussions and not so much a list of asking specific
questions about components..
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
--
No PST Files Ever Again
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration http://buni.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@buni.org>.
I think it is a bad idea. Either a project is alive or it is dead and
most of the dead are not coming back. The site, the project and
everything else should reflect this.
I suggest that:
1. ECS
2. ORO
3. Regexp
4. Alexandria (already does basically)
all have a page that looks like this one:
http://avalon.apache.org/closed.html
Stating that the projects are dead and state what things have taken
their place and provide links. There is
no need for an artificial "dev" list or "users" list. Just close the
lists. (If you disagree look at the list archive for
each over the last 6 months and see if you REALLY disagree in more than
THEORY).
-Andy
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
> Maybe a user@jakarta.apache.org. I see general as being the list for jakarta wide discussions and
> not so much a list of asking specific questions about components..
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
--
No PST Files Ever Again
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration
http://buni.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Create dev@jakarta.apache.org mailinglist..
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Daniel F. Savarese wrote:
> In message <45...@mvdb.net>, Martin van den Bemt writes:
>> The strength of this list should be is that with a lot of hands the chance tha
>> t nothing happens when
>> there is activity is minimized. If someone has an hour to spare, it could very
>> well be useful to
>> apply a patch and mentor people.
>
> Vadim has regexp covered and I have oro covered as far as maintenance
> requests go, but no, I don't think either project merits its own
> separate -dev and -user lists anymore. The trick is getting users who
> want new features (as opposed to maintenance like bug fixing) to contribute
> new features instead of always expecting the maintainers to add them
> (e.g., Commons Net has been pretty successful in attracting user
> contributed features). But regexp and oro are special cases which will
> likely see no new features in the future, having been rendered obsolete
> by standardization of the functionality they provide in the Java core api.
Good to hear it is covered.. So little happening atm that I didn't notice it :)
>
>> Since I don't like to extend the scope of the general list, I prefer dev discu
>> ssion not to take
>> place there.
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>
> As long as user traffic can go to general, it sounds okay. Most, if not all,
> activity will be triggered by users (who won't be subscribed to dev), so
> I'd think at least some threads should be permitted to start on general
> and then migrate to dev if there is follow-on development related discussion.
>
Maybe a user@jakarta.apache.org. I see general as being the list for jakarta wide discussions and
not so much a list of asking specific questions about components..
Mvgr,
Martin
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