You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@mahout.apache.org by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com> on 2011/12/04 23:53:34 UTC
Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Checked out and built Mahout using IntelliJ and it was completely
painless. Doing the same with Eclipse (Indigo) and following our wiki
instructions to install m2e was not. The 1.0.100 version of m2e only
allowed me to check the integration subproject. This is not unique to
the particular version of m2e; with other versions I've seen similar
erratic performance. Even when it does finally install correctly, it
doesn't work very well, losing SVN connectivity, etc. I really hate it.
I am able to run mvn eclipse:eclipse and, using the .classpath file it
created in examples/, am able to create a single Eclipse project with
only three glitches:
* Trunk has two copies of
o/a/m/cf/taste/grouplens/GroupLensRecommender.java: one in
integration/ and one in examples/.
* Trunk has two copies of
o/a/m/cf/taste/grouplens/GroupLensDataModel.java: also in
integration/ and examples/.
These files are duplicates, the only difference is the order of imports.
Can I delete the examples/ copies?
* Trunk has two copies of o/a/m/classifier/bayes/package-info.java:
one in core/ and one in examples/. Actually there are many such
files which contain no actual Java artifacts (there's even one in
Hadoop).
These files seem to be related to package annotations, but do we need
them in both locations? If I remove the one in examples/ my project
compiles.
I'd switch to IntelliJ except for the huge effort in learning a new IDE.
Also, many corporate R&D labs (all the ones I've worked for in the last
10 years) still use Eclipse so it seems like it ought not to be so
painful. Did we paint ourselves into an IDE corner on purpose?
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Lance Norskog <go...@gmail.com>.
I use m2e to import and build out the Maven project set. Then, edit and run
unit tests. The full Maven build I do on the command line. And, run
bin/mahout as well.
Eclipse is great for editing and running unit tests; do packaging with ant
or maven. Or shell scripts.
Lance
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Take a look in buildtools/; I moved everything like this together there. I
> tried to update these as I updated the other non-Eclipse config.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Jeff Eastman <jdog@windwardsolutions.com
> >wrote:
>
> > As I said in another posting, I have time and motivation to dig into
> this.
> > Can you point me to the relevant files?
> >
> >
>
--
Lance Norskog
goksron@gmail.com
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com>.
Take a look in buildtools/; I moved everything like this together there. I
tried to update these as I updated the other non-Eclipse config.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
> As I said in another posting, I have time and motivation to dig into this.
> Can you point me to the relevant files?
>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
As I said in another posting, I have time and motivation to dig into
this. Can you point me to the relevant files?
On 12/5/11 1:33 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> If you want seamless alignment of code format, checkstyle, and PMD
> between maven and the IDE, then, at least for eclipse, some
> project-specific wiring is required. I put that into place a long time
> ago for Mahout and the m-e-p. I don't know if it's currently in
> working condition.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> But which maven features are we using that cause problems? Surely our
>> project structure is about as simple as it gets for multi-module maven
>> projects.
>>
>> For that matter, you could say that maven's project structure makes it
>> harder for vi users. If there is something to be done to help that without
>> losing maven, I am happy for the vi users to do it.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Eastman<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
>>> disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing our
>>> customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products which
>>> work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user base. It
>>> takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the popular
>>> browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
>>>
>>> I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
>>> disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/5/11 1:10 PM, Sean Owen wrote:
>>>
>>>> We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
>>>> support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will
>>>> favor
>>>> it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
>>>> itself.
>>>> On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman"<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I will check that out today and report back.
>>>>> The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
>>>>> IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
>>>>> are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
>>>>> I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
>>>>> Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
>>>>> switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
>>>>> will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for
>>>>> better
>>>>> or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
>>>>> Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
>>>>> priority to figure them out and resolve them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bimargulies@gmail.****
>>>>>> com<bi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>>>>>>> promise)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/****36863361/eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz>
>>>>>>>> <http://**dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/**eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>>which
>>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
If you want seamless alignment of code format, checkstyle, and PMD
between maven and the IDE, then, at least for eclipse, some
project-specific wiring is required. I put that into place a long time
ago for Mahout and the m-e-p. I don't know if it's currently in
working condition.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds good.
>
> But which maven features are we using that cause problems? Surely our
> project structure is about as simple as it gets for multi-module maven
> projects.
>
> For that matter, you could say that maven's project structure makes it
> harder for vi users. If there is something to be done to help that without
> losing maven, I am happy for the vi users to do it.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
>
>> Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
>> disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing our
>> customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products which
>> work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user base. It
>> takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the popular
>> browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
>>
>> I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
>> disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/5/11 1:10 PM, Sean Owen wrote:
>>
>>> We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
>>> support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will
>>> favor
>>> it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
>>> itself.
>>> On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman"<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will check that out today and report back.
>>>>
>>>> The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
>>>> IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
>>>> are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
>>>> I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
>>>> Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
>>>> switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
>>>> will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for
>>>> better
>>>> or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
>>>> Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
>>>> priority to figure them out and resolve them.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bimargulies@gmail.****
>>>>> com<bi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>>>>>> promise)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/****36863361/eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz>
>>>>>>> <http://**dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/**eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>>which
>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Sounds good.
But which maven features are we using that cause problems? Surely our
project structure is about as simple as it gets for multi-module maven
projects.
For that matter, you could say that maven's project structure makes it
harder for vi users. If there is something to be done to help that without
losing maven, I am happy for the vi users to do it.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
> Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
> disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing our
> customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products which
> work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user base. It
> takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the popular
> browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
>
> I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
> disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
>
>
>
> On 12/5/11 1:10 PM, Sean Owen wrote:
>
>> We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
>> support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will
>> favor
>> it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
>> itself.
>> On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman"<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I will check that out today and report back.
>>>
>>> The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
>>> IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
>>> are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
>>> I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
>>> Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
>>> switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
>>> will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for
>>> better
>>> or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
>>>
>>> I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
>>> Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
>>> priority to figure them out and resolve them.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>
>>> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bimargulies@gmail.****
>>>> com<bi...@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>>>>> promise)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/****36863361/eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz>
>>>>>> <http://**dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/**eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>>which
>>>>>> is the
>>>>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com>.
#1 yeah there is not a great reason for this. The one in integration/ is
really the extra one. It's there so that the web app example has an example
to run, without depending on examples/, but, I'm just going to delete it.
Likewise I'll merge those two package-info.java classes.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
> **
> The IJ-generated file (mahout.userlibraries in my case) creates a user
> library with references to all the appropriate jars. By adding it to the
> Eclipse buildpath user libraries after svn checkout, and after manually
> fixing the source files it ALL WORKS! Well, almost...
>
> - We still have duplicates of GroupLensDataModel and
> GroupLensRecommender in examples/
> - The duplicate package-info files in o.a.m.classifier.bayes still
> causes a compiler error but it can be ignored
>
>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
The IJ-generated file (mahout.userlibraries in my case) creates a user
library with references to all the appropriate jars. By adding it to the
Eclipse buildpath user libraries after svn checkout, and after manually
fixing the source files it ALL WORKS! Well, almost...
* We still have duplicates of GroupLensDataModel and
GroupLensRecommender in examples/
* The duplicate package-info files in o.a.m.classifier.bayes still
causes a compiler error but it can be ignored
On 12/5/11 1:51 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
> would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
>
>> If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
>> more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
>> this right now.
>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
But we definitely wind up sounding like one anyway.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
> And no, I am not a paid spokesperson for IJ!
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org>.
Cool! Glad to hear it.
On Dec 6, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Dmitriy Lyubimov wrote:
> finding a (java) type in eclipse: ctrl-shift-T. Finding a resource
> (i.e. file) : ctrl-shft-R. Experience is virtually identical to IJ's.
> :)
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Can't help but join in and give my IJ testimonial and/or Eclipse FUD, depending on which one you use. :-)
>>
>> I'm like Ted, I've got 10+ years of IJ keymappings in my fingers. I just find IJ feels like it was done by people who get how programmers want to work. For instance, I was looking up Mahout files w/ a user in Eclipse the other day. We knew what the file name was. That seemingly simple act in IJ is one shortcut (apple-n) plus 2 or 3 letters (the first few letters of the name, else the "inner caps" of the name, i.e. typing "EDM" gets me the EuclideanDistanceMeasure -- note, this also works for symbol names and regular file names, albeit w/ slightly different shortcuts). Him doing it in Eclipse involved at least four mouse clicks to get to the search menu, etc. and then typing out the name of the class. It was painful. Of course, there may be shorter ways, but as a long time Eclipse user, this user didn't know them. I found that sad, as it was literally the difference between 2-3 seconds versus 30-60 seconds (including the search time) in Eclipse just to find one file that we already knew the name of but not the package. Multiply that by the number of times you look up a file in a day. YMMV and perhaps it is FUD, but that has been my observation of most Eclipse users.
>>
>> I also find in trainings that I give, Eclipse users always struggle with project setup. Now, this could be because of my IJ bias, but it just doesn't seem to be as intuitive to them to get started, even though both sets of users start from the same base.
>>
>> FWIW, IntelliJ has an "Eclipse" keymap mode. Go to the IJ settings (preferences). Choose Keymap. Choose Eclipse. They also have Netbeans, Emacs and JBuilder. In other words, your 10 years of Eclipse may not be wasted.
>>
>> Last but not least, ASF committers can get the full version of IJ for free for open source work.
>>
>> And no, I am not a paid spokesperson for IJ!
>>
>> -Grant
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Dmitriy Lyubimov wrote:
>>
>>> M2e plugin never worked fir me. Instead, i just use eclipse maven plugin to
>>> genrate eclipse projects and paths.
>>>
>>> Of course full fledged compilation is always maven native. But eclipse
>>> incremental compiler works too and it is fast.
>>>
>>> Never had any problems with the scheme.
>>> On Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
>>>> would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman <jdog@windwardsolutions.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
>>>>> more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
>>>>> this right now.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
--------------------------
Grant Ingersoll
http://www.lucidimagination.com
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Dmitriy Lyubimov <dl...@gmail.com>.
finding a (java) type in eclipse: ctrl-shift-T. Finding a resource
(i.e. file) : ctrl-shft-R. Experience is virtually identical to IJ's.
:)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
> Can't help but join in and give my IJ testimonial and/or Eclipse FUD, depending on which one you use. :-)
>
> I'm like Ted, I've got 10+ years of IJ keymappings in my fingers. I just find IJ feels like it was done by people who get how programmers want to work. For instance, I was looking up Mahout files w/ a user in Eclipse the other day. We knew what the file name was. That seemingly simple act in IJ is one shortcut (apple-n) plus 2 or 3 letters (the first few letters of the name, else the "inner caps" of the name, i.e. typing "EDM" gets me the EuclideanDistanceMeasure -- note, this also works for symbol names and regular file names, albeit w/ slightly different shortcuts). Him doing it in Eclipse involved at least four mouse clicks to get to the search menu, etc. and then typing out the name of the class. It was painful. Of course, there may be shorter ways, but as a long time Eclipse user, this user didn't know them. I found that sad, as it was literally the difference between 2-3 seconds versus 30-60 seconds (including the search time) in Eclipse just to find one file that we already knew the name of but not the package. Multiply that by the number of times you look up a file in a day. YMMV and perhaps it is FUD, but that has been my observation of most Eclipse users.
>
> I also find in trainings that I give, Eclipse users always struggle with project setup. Now, this could be because of my IJ bias, but it just doesn't seem to be as intuitive to them to get started, even though both sets of users start from the same base.
>
> FWIW, IntelliJ has an "Eclipse" keymap mode. Go to the IJ settings (preferences). Choose Keymap. Choose Eclipse. They also have Netbeans, Emacs and JBuilder. In other words, your 10 years of Eclipse may not be wasted.
>
> Last but not least, ASF committers can get the full version of IJ for free for open source work.
>
> And no, I am not a paid spokesperson for IJ!
>
> -Grant
>
> On Dec 6, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Dmitriy Lyubimov wrote:
>
>> M2e plugin never worked fir me. Instead, i just use eclipse maven plugin to
>> genrate eclipse projects and paths.
>>
>> Of course full fledged compilation is always maven native. But eclipse
>> incremental compiler works too and it is fast.
>>
>> Never had any problems with the scheme.
>> On Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
>>> would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman <jdog@windwardsolutions.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
>>>> more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
>>>> this right now.
>>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org>.
Can't help but join in and give my IJ testimonial and/or Eclipse FUD, depending on which one you use. :-)
I'm like Ted, I've got 10+ years of IJ keymappings in my fingers. I just find IJ feels like it was done by people who get how programmers want to work. For instance, I was looking up Mahout files w/ a user in Eclipse the other day. We knew what the file name was. That seemingly simple act in IJ is one shortcut (apple-n) plus 2 or 3 letters (the first few letters of the name, else the "inner caps" of the name, i.e. typing "EDM" gets me the EuclideanDistanceMeasure -- note, this also works for symbol names and regular file names, albeit w/ slightly different shortcuts). Him doing it in Eclipse involved at least four mouse clicks to get to the search menu, etc. and then typing out the name of the class. It was painful. Of course, there may be shorter ways, but as a long time Eclipse user, this user didn't know them. I found that sad, as it was literally the difference between 2-3 seconds versus 30-60 seconds (including the search time) in Eclipse just to find one file that we already knew the name of but not the package. Multiply that by the number of times you look up a file in a day. YMMV and perhaps it is FUD, but that has been my observation of most Eclipse users.
I also find in trainings that I give, Eclipse users always struggle with project setup. Now, this could be because of my IJ bias, but it just doesn't seem to be as intuitive to them to get started, even though both sets of users start from the same base.
FWIW, IntelliJ has an "Eclipse" keymap mode. Go to the IJ settings (preferences). Choose Keymap. Choose Eclipse. They also have Netbeans, Emacs and JBuilder. In other words, your 10 years of Eclipse may not be wasted.
Last but not least, ASF committers can get the full version of IJ for free for open source work.
And no, I am not a paid spokesperson for IJ!
-Grant
On Dec 6, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Dmitriy Lyubimov wrote:
> M2e plugin never worked fir me. Instead, i just use eclipse maven plugin to
> genrate eclipse projects and paths.
>
> Of course full fledged compilation is always maven native. But eclipse
> incremental compiler works too and it is fast.
>
> Never had any problems with the scheme.
> On Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
>> would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman <jdog@windwardsolutions.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
>>> more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
>>> this right now.
>>>
>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Dmitriy Lyubimov <dl...@gmail.com>.
M2e plugin never worked fir me. Instead, i just use eclipse maven plugin to
genrate eclipse projects and paths.
Of course full fledged compilation is always maven native. But eclipse
incremental compiler works too and it is fast.
Never had any problems with the scheme.
On Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM, "Ted Dunning" <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
> would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman <jdog@windwardsolutions.com
> >wrote:
>
> > If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
> > more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
> > this right now.
> >
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Let me know how the IntelliJ generated eclipse files work for you. It
would be humorous if IntelliJ gave us better eclipse support than eclipse.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
> If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
> more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
> this right now.
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
I think we are pretty fine on this. While I think we may have become de
facto more aligned with IJ simply because it supports Maven better than
Eclipse and is thus easier to use, I don't see this as a policy
decision. I did misconstrue some of your earlier remarks on that topic
but that is all clear now. If I had Ted's 10+ years of IJ keystroke
mappings and not my own Eclipse mappings I probably would never have
raised this as an issue.
If a little tune-up of our Eclipse configs is in order I'd like to learn
more about them so I can dig into it. I have almost full time to work on
this right now.
On 12/5/11 1:26 PM, Sean Owen wrote:
> Agree, within any reason. I may misunderstand entirely, but sounds like
> plain old Maven config works with Maven and works with IntelliJ but not
> Eclipse, and we're maintaining some extra configuration to work with
> Eclipse. Sounds like there's already extra effort to support Eclipse.
>
> That's at odds with the concept that we're somehow becoming IntelliJ
> centric. There's no IJ-specific config in the project that I know of.
>
> What piece am I missing or are we just fine now?
>
> To be clear I will only ever care about IJ myself but I do not want any
> IJ-specific anything in the project. And I don't mind Eclipse-specific
> stuff if it must be. But that doesn't add up to shafting Eclipse users
> right?
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Jeff Eastman<jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
>
>> Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
>> disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing our
>> customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products which
>> work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user base. It
>> takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the popular
>> browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
>>
>> I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
>> disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
>>
>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com>.
Agree, within any reason. I may misunderstand entirely, but sounds like
plain old Maven config works with Maven and works with IntelliJ but not
Eclipse, and we're maintaining some extra configuration to work with
Eclipse. Sounds like there's already extra effort to support Eclipse.
That's at odds with the concept that we're somehow becoming IntelliJ
centric. There's no IJ-specific config in the project that I know of.
What piece am I missing or are we just fine now?
To be clear I will only ever care about IJ myself but I do not want any
IJ-specific anything in the project. And I don't mind Eclipse-specific
stuff if it must be. But that doesn't add up to shafting Eclipse users
right?
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>wrote:
> Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
> disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing our
> customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products which
> work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user base. It
> takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the popular
> browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
>
> I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
> disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
Sure, but if the Maven features we use, or the way in which we use them,
disenfranchise the users of an important IDE then I think we are doing
our customers a disservice. This is just like many web-based products
which work only on IE; they restrict themselves to that browser user
base. It takes some extra work to support all the versions of all the
popular browsers but many organizations feel it is worth the effort.
I think we should make a conscious decision in this case not to
disenfranchise the Eclipse community.
On 12/5/11 1:10 PM, Sean Owen wrote:
> We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
> support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will favor
> it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
> itself.
> On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman"<jd...@windwardsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>> I will check that out today and report back.
>>
>> The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
>> IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
>> are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
>> I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
>> Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
>> switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
>> will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for better
>> or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
>>
>> I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
>> Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
>> priority to figure them out and resolve them.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>
>>> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bi...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>>>> promise)
>>>>>
>>>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>which is the
>>>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>>>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
That is my feeling as well. We support maven and don't force the IDE on
our users.
Conversely, we shouldn't force IDE's on each other either. I use IJ due to
historical reasons (10+ years of key bindings in my fingers) and am happy
about the good maven integration that it provides. The IntelliJ strategy
of making a maven project be just another way of describing a project so
that there isn't any integration.
So I feel like making eclipse play nice with maven as an itch that I don't
have, but clearly others do. I am happy to go with the flow in terms of
adapting to changes that others make to simplify life, but I don't have the
background or time to make the changes myself.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
> support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will favor
> it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
> itself.
> On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman" <jd...@windwardsolutions.com> wrote:
>
> > I will check that out today and report back.
> >
> > The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
> > IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
> > are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
> > I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
> > Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
> > switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
> > will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for
> better
> > or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
> >
> > I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
> > Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
> > priority to figure them out and resolve them.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >
> >> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bimargulies@gmail.
> **com<bi...@gmail.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
> >>>> promise)
> >>>>
> >>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz<
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>which is the
> >>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
> >>>>
> >>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Sean Owen <sr...@gmail.com>.
We shouldn't support anything but Maven itself. Its up to the IDEs to
support Maven then. If IntelliJ does it better then maybe people will favor
it but that's up to the user. I don't think we should favor any IDE by
itself.
On Dec 5, 2011 7:41 PM, "Jeff Eastman" <jd...@windwardsolutions.com> wrote:
> I will check that out today and report back.
>
> The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
> IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
> are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
> I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
> Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
> switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
> will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for better
> or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
>
> I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
> Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
> priority to figure them out and resolve them.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>
>> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bi...@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>>
>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>>> promise)
>>>>
>>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**36863361/eclipse.tgz<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz>which is the
>>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>>
>>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
I will check that out today and report back.
The larger issue I see is that, by doing all of our maven development in
IntelliJ and not keeping Eclipse working as a viable IDE option, that we
are not doing a good job of supporting our customer base. All the shops
I've worked in for the last ten years have been Eclipse shops. I echo
Benson's concern about the amount of neural energy needed to make the
switch, and forcing that switch in order to do Mahout-based development
will certainly make us less useful in those organizations which, for
better or worse, are Eclipse shops too.
I don't know yet what issues are preventing me from working in Eclipse
Indigo + m2e 1.0 but they are reproducible and I think it is a very high
priority to figure them out and resolve them.
Jeff
On 12/4/11 6:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies<bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning<te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>>> promise)
>>>
>>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz which is the
>>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>>
>>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Do the eclipse files that I posted on dropbox do any good for eclipse?
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
> > promise)
> >
> > Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz which is the
> > result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
> >
> > If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org>.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> The problem is that I, personally, discovered that I could not
> liberate enough spare neurons to learn a new IDE.
>
> If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
That's the beauty of IJ, it doesn't need any. It pretty much just works.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
>> promise)
>>
>> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz which is the
>> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>>
>> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff,
>>>
>>> My recent experience with m2e is not as awful as yours, and I am the
>>> original arranger of m-e-p config in mahout. I can have a look and see
>>> if I can tune something up to mitigate.
>>>
>>> I was myself tempted to switch to intellij, but the leap was more than
>>> I could organize.
>>>
>>> --benson
>>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
The problem is that I, personally, discovered that I could not
liberate enough spare neurons to learn a new IDE.
If you can add intellij helpfulness to the mahout tree, please do.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
> promise)
>
> Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz which is the
> result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
>
> If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> My recent experience with m2e is not as awful as yours, and I am the
>> original arranger of m-e-p config in mahout. I can have a look and see
>> if I can tune something up to mitigate.
>>
>> I was myself tempted to switch to intellij, but the leap was more than
>> I could organize.
>>
>> --benson
>>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Can't intelliJ export eclipse projects? (it has a menu item with that
promise)
Take a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36863361/eclipse.tgz which is the
result me doing that on a modified mahout directory.
If that shows promise, I can do it on trunk.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> My recent experience with m2e is not as awful as yours, and I am the
> original arranger of m-e-p config in mahout. I can have a look and see
> if I can tune something up to mitigate.
>
> I was myself tempted to switch to intellij, but the leap was more than
> I could organize.
>
> --benson
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Jeff,
My recent experience with m2e is not as awful as yours, and I am the
original arranger of m-e-p config in mahout. I can have a look and see
if I can tune something up to mitigate.
I was myself tempted to switch to intellij, but the leap was more than
I could organize.
--benson
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Jeff Eastman <jd...@windwardsolutions.com>.
+1 Thanks Benson, for putting it so succinctly. My Mahout life with
Eclipse began to deteriorate when we adopted Maven and as we have taken
more advantage of its features it has gotten worse. It is almost
unusable now. Your description of the cause fits the symptoms perfectly.
I think I will invest some more time in IntelliJ.
On 12/4/11 4:11 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> This problem is not of our making.
>
> M2Eclipse is an ambitious effort. It's been pushed out into the public
> eye well before it is stable or mature for all but the simplest cases.
>
> At the same time, the maven-eclipse-plugin is a near-orphan.
>
> The state of these two items is a symptom of a fundamental difference
> between Eclipse on the one hand, and NetBeans and Intellij on the
> others.
>
> NB and IJ both work in the principle that the IDE's job is to launch a
> build tool and then present the results of its output. Eclipse's
> principle is to *be* a build tool. Unfortunately, it has never been a
> practical tool for automated, command-line, builds. So everyone who
> loves it as an IDE is stuck with finding some way to sync it up with
> the underlying build tool of their choice.
>
> The m-e-p's approach is to try to configure Eclipse to match maven.
> However, this is a big of a mug's game, as there is an unbounded
> collection of maven plugins, and no modularity for asking them to
> deliver Eclipse-friendly results.
>
> M2e's approach is to absorb Maven as an Eclipse builder, partially
> replacing the native builder. This is a titanic effort. It's a wonder
> that it works at all.
>
> As individuals, we choose our IDE. As a project, the best we can do is
> try to maintain support for several of them. We can keep maintaining
> support for m-e-p, and try to tune the poms to be more workable with
> m2e on any given day.
>
>
Re: Working in Eclipse vs. IntelliJ
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
This problem is not of our making.
M2Eclipse is an ambitious effort. It's been pushed out into the public
eye well before it is stable or mature for all but the simplest cases.
At the same time, the maven-eclipse-plugin is a near-orphan.
The state of these two items is a symptom of a fundamental difference
between Eclipse on the one hand, and NetBeans and Intellij on the
others.
NB and IJ both work in the principle that the IDE's job is to launch a
build tool and then present the results of its output. Eclipse's
principle is to *be* a build tool. Unfortunately, it has never been a
practical tool for automated, command-line, builds. So everyone who
loves it as an IDE is stuck with finding some way to sync it up with
the underlying build tool of their choice.
The m-e-p's approach is to try to configure Eclipse to match maven.
However, this is a big of a mug's game, as there is an unbounded
collection of maven plugins, and no modularity for asking them to
deliver Eclipse-friendly results.
M2e's approach is to absorb Maven as an Eclipse builder, partially
replacing the native builder. This is a titanic effort. It's a wonder
that it works at all.
As individuals, we choose our IDE. As a project, the best we can do is
try to maintain support for several of them. We can keep maintaining
support for m-e-p, and try to tune the poms to be more workable with
m2e on any given day.