RE: Response to Apache Documentation in ThoutReader thread

["Mark D. Carey" <mc...@osoft.com>]

Erik,

Thanks for the suggestions. I sent my previous message out to the small
mailing list because some responses back to me were direct and some were
copied to the docs@http mailing list. This is an open discussion and I am
copying the mailing list.

You are correct. We are using a combination of Perl scripts with XSL to
process the HTML output from your XSL. Before we upload this to our server
for your review, allow us to refine the Perl scripts to COMPLETELY automate
the process for you. To generate the output, you would only have to point
the Perl script to your HTML directory and push a button. This will result
in a compressed archive (.jar file) that can be read by the ThoutReader.

Give me a week to complete this.

Mark

BTW: The link to SF has always been on our home page in the upper left
corner. 

Mark 

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Abele [mailto:erik@codefaktor.de] 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:34 AM
To: mcarey@osoft.com
Cc: mads@toftum.dk; rbowen@rcbowen.com; nd@perlig.de
Subject: Re: Response to Apache Documentation in ThoutReader thread

On 20.01.2005, at 15:49, Mark D. Carey wrote:

> This is a response to the ongoing thread about Apache documentation and
> OSoft's ThoutReader. Allow me to summarize and respond to all of the 
> issues
> that have been raised:

You're speaking about an 'ongoing thread', so why didn't you contribute 
back to the thread and post this message to the docs@httpd mailing 
list?

> 1. Using the ThoutReader as the official Apache documentation format
> OSoft never asked to have our format as the official Apache 
> Documentation.
> Apache has an incredible documentation group and we have no intent to
> interfere. All I asked is if we could be listed as an alternative 
> format for
> those people who wish to have all of their documentation in one format,
> viewable offline.

I don't think anybody here saw your proposal as a way to interfere with 
the docs group - the basic problem is just the fact that your 
(indirect) message simply wasn't very clear, more on that below.

By the way, some basic points to consider:
	- we're an organization completely based on volunteers so 95% of the

people won't
	  work on something which isn't really useful to them
	- our primary communication media are the publicly archived mailing 
lists so
	  anything not on these lists isn't ver useful for the wider
community

> 2. Apache MUST control the documentation
> We agree! OSoft can provide Apache documentation group with the "Apache
> parser" we created which converts your current format into the 
> ThoutReader
> format. The ThoutReader also supports multiple languages.

Cool, that sounds interesting - the only bit which is left now is that 
you actually do this and provide us with the tools you created. I guess 
your 'Apache parser' consists of one or more XSLs and some patches to 
integrate them into the current docs build-system, correct? Well, then 
create a .tar.gz of this stuff, upload it to your server and send a 
message together with some explanations and the link to the .tar.gz 
file to the docs@httpd mailing list.

> Apache can incorporate the necessary transformation in your build 
> system and could
> provide it from your own servers. There would be no requirement to 
> link back
> to OSoft for either the reader or the content if you so choose.

Indeed, if you can can come up with the material needed to do this, 
then we'd have a basis for a discussion. Your previous email was simply 
to vague on this and I honestly doubt that you'll find someone on the 
docs team who voluntarily builds the XSLT and integrates it into the 
build-system when there's zero demand from our users.

> 3. OSoft should not require users to register
> ...
> 4. No way to evaluate the Apache documentation without registering 
> "which I
> refuse to do".
> No problem - The ThoutReader is available from SourceForge at ...

Cool, and there's even a download link on the homepage now - I could 
swear it wasn't there before, was it?

> I have placed the Apache documentation on our server which can be 
> downloaded
> for your evaluation without registering through this link:
> http://www.osoft.com/apache/osoft_740184119apache.jar

Hmm, okay, that's a start but actually the problematic bit is the 
transformation of the current docs and the integration into the current 
build system. I think you would have a lot more chances to get what you 
want, if you simply would come up with a proposal and the material 
needed, see above.

> 5. Missing README.txt file in the installer. We got a score of -1.
> This was an oversight and we corrected this.

Cool, thanks.

> 6. OSoft is using Apache's trademarked logo without permission. Again,
> another -1.
> We thought that the logo was part of the Apache license. The logo has 
> been
> removed from our website and Apache documentation content :)

Cool, thanks.

> All we are asking is that the ThoutReader be evaluated on its own 
> merits. We
> have found that developers like having all of their content in one 
> place and
> one searchable format. Gary and I would like a chance to show you what 
> we
> can do and seek your understanding and support.

Great, so please do that and show us what *you* can do!

HTH...

Cheers,
Erik

[ feel free to forward this to the docs mailing list, I just didn't do 
it because I wasn't sure if you'd like it ;-) ]


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