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Posted to user@velocity.apache.org by Terry Steichen <te...@net-frame.com> on 2002/10/17 19:51:07 UTC
Bozo Filter Available?
Geir,
Do we have a bozo filter we could use? Or would a spam-trap work better. This guy (guess who?) is doing more harm for his product/cause than he seems to imagine. (Probably doesn't have enough traffic on his own list to keep busy.)
Terry
Texen Example
Posted by Aaron Held <aa...@MetroNY.com>.
BTW,
I found an excellent example of Texen outside of ANT.
http://velocidoc.sourceforge.net/intro.html
-Aaron
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Attila Szegedi <sz...@freemail.hu>.
Actually, the traffic on freemarker-devel is fairly big, and it's almost
completely technically focused. Check the numbers on
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=7170 if you're
interested. We have between 150-400 messages a month.
Attila.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Steichen" <te...@net-frame.com>
To: <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: Bozo Filter Available?
Geir,
Do we have a bozo filter we could use? Or would a spam-trap work better.
This guy (guess who?) is doing more harm for his product/cause than he seems
to imagine. (Probably doesn't have enough traffic on his own list to keep
busy.)
Terry
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RE: OT: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Paulo Gaspar <pa...@krankikom.de>.
Jonathan,
Being someone that had more than his share of flames with Jon Stevens, I
still must say that I have never seen anyone more annoying in the Apache
mailing lists than you.
Jon Stevens ability to annoy in his worse days pales when compared to
what you do all the time you pop up here.
And then, despite the flames, I still did learn quite a bit from Jon
Stevens, but I've never learned anything interesting from you - nothing,
zip, zilch, nada.
Your bandwidth (here, at least) is almost all noise and almost no signal.
Even when you do emit some signal, it is lost on all the crap that you
attach to it.
I am also loosing count of the people you already attacked since the
beginning of this discussion, and if someone is behaving like a stupid
teenager trying to become the alpha male of the pack, that one is you.
If it was not for the fact that I already know Freemarker (since before
I knew Velocity) and if it was not for the respect that Attila deserves,
I would even be tempted to avoid Freemarker as much as I will keep
avoiding Niggle, which, btw, is at best a naive draft of a framework
(yes I looked at it too before).
It is a pity that I break my long silence on this list just because I
am loosing my patience with a little crap like you.
Look, I am no native English speaker, but my friend Dylan (which is)
had a word for guys just like you: you're just a f******g "wanker".
Have fun,
Paulo
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Revusky [mailto:revusky@wanadoo.es]
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:31 PM
> To: Velocity Users List
> Subject: Re: OT: Bozo Filter Available?
>
>
> On Friday 18 October 2002 08:36 pm, Tim Colson wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > The use of the word "you" is ambiguous and could mean Martin. Which
> > turns this statement into another insult directed at Martin.
> >
> > FYI: Many uses of the word "you" are inflammatory and therefore some
> > public speaking texts suggest the usage be avoided. In English, it is
> > similar to 'pointing a finger' at someone. Example: "You broke the
> > build!" which is opinionated and accusatory, versus "I believe the
> > recent changes in the Foo.class (maintained by tcolson) broke the
> > build," which still holds the person accountable, but does not make the
> > issue into a personal attack.
>
> This is really getting so good! I love this one. Let me get this
> straight. I
> am guilty of the inflammatory, abusive use of the second-person pronoun
> "you"....
>
> <ROTFL>
>
> The funniest aspect of all of this is kind of recursive in
> nature. You see,
> what's funny about this is that.... I think you're not actually
> *trying* to
> be funny!!!
>
> <ROTFL>
>
> I mean, I swear, maybe I'm mistaken, but currently you've got me
> convinced
> that you're actually serious!!! (And that really is incredible!)
>
> <ROTFL>
>
> >
> > > > At least take this thread off list...
> > >
> > > Well... I think the thread's over now. :-)
> > > Jonathan Revusky
> >
> > I disagree.
>
> > I think that Martin has been insulted in public, and as such
> > deserves an apology or his own chance to reply.
>
> Tim, did Martin van Neukirk accede to having you represent him as
> his public
> defender? Or are you just assuming this role without consulting
> your err....
> client.... ?
>
> I would be very surprised if Martin himself approves of your
> behavior, since
> he did express the desire to get rid of off-topic personal
> exchanges and you
> are deliberately fanning the flames -- in his name.
>
> You don't have his permission for this, do you?
>
> > I will be impressed if
> > either an apology is given,
>
> <ROTFL>
>
> Tim, this very thread in which all of this tragicomic stuff is
> occurring is
> entitled "Bozo Filter Available?" and was specifically initiated
> in order to
> bait me. It is safe to say that everybody here knows that. Also,
> everybody --
> at least if they weren't born yesterday -- knows that the baiting started
> because the people in question were not capable of responding to
> my points in
> legitimate debate.
>
> Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree. Obviously, no apology will be
> offered, Tim. Look, this is ridiculous. The very title of this thread
> contains an insult. Everybody knows that the "bozo" Terry Steichen was
> referring to is me. Is that not an insult? Do you expect Terry to
> apologize
> for that? Hey, I'm not holding *my* breath...
>
> But let's look at this sec:
>
> People start an off-topic thread devoid of technical content with
> the specific
> goal of insulting *me* and I'm the guy who's supposed to come up with an
> apology.
>
> This is so unbelievably ridiculous....
>
> > or with Martin's character if he manages to
> > turn the other cheek to the insults.
>
> Well... Martin's being treated for 3rd degree burns, I think. :-)
>
> But the record is crystal clear on this. He did flame me first.
> (Don't play
> with fire and you won't get burned...)
>
> Tim, really, seriously, I think you should stop making a fool of
> yourself. It
> is safe to say that everybody here knows that this is just a
> pretext to get
> back at me because you ended up looking foolish in the debate on
> numerical
> support. (Though the debate was fair.) But, I mean, c'mon, it's
> just *too*
> obvious.
>
> I doubt very much that you personally know Martin or really
> sincerely give a
> darn whether he was insulted or not. It's just some completely phony
> hypocritical pretext. Like, man, anybody can see that, it's just
> ridiculously
> obvious.
>
> Well, okay, looking on the bright side, you are funny. Speaking
> for myself at
> least, *I* am most definitely amused. I mean, this shit is
> HILARIOUS. (The
> stuff about the abusive usage of the second-person pronoun is absolutely
> priceless. I don't think I'll ever forget that.)
>
> BUT... the problem is that people are laughing *at* you, not
> *with* you... if
> you get my drift.... ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
> --
> FreeMarker 2.1 is out! http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/
> FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
> http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
> Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
> http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
>
>
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>
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Re: OT: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
On Friday 18 October 2002 08:36 pm, Tim Colson wrote:
<snip>
> The use of the word "you" is ambiguous and could mean Martin. Which
> turns this statement into another insult directed at Martin.
>
> FYI: Many uses of the word "you" are inflammatory and therefore some
> public speaking texts suggest the usage be avoided. In English, it is
> similar to 'pointing a finger' at someone. Example: "You broke the
> build!" which is opinionated and accusatory, versus "I believe the
> recent changes in the Foo.class (maintained by tcolson) broke the
> build," which still holds the person accountable, but does not make the
> issue into a personal attack.
This is really getting so good! I love this one. Let me get this straight. I
am guilty of the inflammatory, abusive use of the second-person pronoun
"you"....
<ROTFL>
The funniest aspect of all of this is kind of recursive in nature. You see,
what's funny about this is that.... I think you're not actually *trying* to
be funny!!!
<ROTFL>
I mean, I swear, maybe I'm mistaken, but currently you've got me convinced
that you're actually serious!!! (And that really is incredible!)
<ROTFL>
>
> > > At least take this thread off list...
> >
> > Well... I think the thread's over now. :-)
> > Jonathan Revusky
>
> I disagree.
> I think that Martin has been insulted in public, and as such
> deserves an apology or his own chance to reply.
Tim, did Martin van Neukirk accede to having you represent him as his public
defender? Or are you just assuming this role without consulting your err....
client.... ?
I would be very surprised if Martin himself approves of your behavior, since
he did express the desire to get rid of off-topic personal exchanges and you
are deliberately fanning the flames -- in his name.
You don't have his permission for this, do you?
> I will be impressed if
> either an apology is given,
<ROTFL>
Tim, this very thread in which all of this tragicomic stuff is occurring is
entitled "Bozo Filter Available?" and was specifically initiated in order to
bait me. It is safe to say that everybody here knows that. Also, everybody --
at least if they weren't born yesterday -- knows that the baiting started
because the people in question were not capable of responding to my points in
legitimate debate.
Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree. Obviously, no apology will be
offered, Tim. Look, this is ridiculous. The very title of this thread
contains an insult. Everybody knows that the "bozo" Terry Steichen was
referring to is me. Is that not an insult? Do you expect Terry to apologize
for that? Hey, I'm not holding *my* breath...
But let's look at this sec:
People start an off-topic thread devoid of technical content with the specific
goal of insulting *me* and I'm the guy who's supposed to come up with an
apology.
This is so unbelievably ridiculous....
> or with Martin's character if he manages to
> turn the other cheek to the insults.
Well... Martin's being treated for 3rd degree burns, I think. :-)
But the record is crystal clear on this. He did flame me first. (Don't play
with fire and you won't get burned...)
Tim, really, seriously, I think you should stop making a fool of yourself. It
is safe to say that everybody here knows that this is just a pretext to get
back at me because you ended up looking foolish in the debate on numerical
support. (Though the debate was fair.) But, I mean, c'mon, it's just *too*
obvious.
I doubt very much that you personally know Martin or really sincerely give a
darn whether he was insulted or not. It's just some completely phony
hypocritical pretext. Like, man, anybody can see that, it's just ridiculously
obvious.
Well, okay, looking on the bright side, you are funny. Speaking for myself at
least, *I* am most definitely amused. I mean, this shit is HILARIOUS. (The
stuff about the abusive usage of the second-person pronoun is absolutely
priceless. I don't think I'll ever forget that.)
BUT... the problem is that people are laughing *at* you, not *with* you... if
you get my drift.... ;-)
Cheers,
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker 2.1 is out! http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
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OT: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Tim Colson <tc...@cisco.com>.
I think the recent email reply from Jonathan to Martin was insulting,
and I hope an apology is sent to Martin.
I also hope this list can resume it's normally jovial nature and
exemplary job of providing fast and friendly help and discussion for
Velocity Users - the kind of stuff that has proven immensely valuable to
me over the last couple years.
It has been noted in the past that line by line reasons are preferred,
so here are my reasons:
> On Friday 18 October 2002 05:24 pm, Attila Szegedi wrote:
> > <sigh> Jon, why don't you just accept the guy's apology and move on?
> > What good is in there in humiliating him? In public?
>
> You're right, I'm sure. He's just a kid probably, and doesn't
> know any better.
This statement directed two more insults toward Martin.
> It is an object lesson.
> He did start with me, as you yourself pointed out.
This shows a refusal to accept even a tiny bit of culpability for
participating in the thread, thereby projecting all blame at Martin.
(Incidentally, 'object lesson' was probably a typo since the discussion
had nothing to do with objects. If perhaps 'abject' was intended, that
usage would have been incorrect... since this thread was obviously not
"expressed or offered in a humble and often ingratiating spirit".
Evidence being that I would not expect a "humble spirit" to involve
personal insults.)
> And really, you shouldn't pick a fight with somebody like that --
> particularly if you can't follow through... :-)
The use of the word "you" is ambiguous and could mean Martin. Which
turns this statement into another insult directed at Martin.
FYI: Many uses of the word "you" are inflammatory and therefore some
public speaking texts suggest the usage be avoided. In English, it is
similar to 'pointing a finger' at someone. Example: "You broke the
build!" which is opinionated and accusatory, versus "I believe the
recent changes in the Foo.class (maintained by tcolson) broke the
build," which still holds the person accountable, but does not make the
issue into a personal attack.
> > At least take this thread off list...
> Well... I think the thread's over now. :-)
> Jonathan Revusky
I disagree. I think that Martin has been insulted in public, and as such
deserves an apology or his own chance to reply. I will be impressed if
either an apology is given, or with Martin's character if he manages to
turn the other cheek to the insults.
Sincerely,
Tim
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
On Friday 18 October 2002 05:24 pm, Attila Szegedi wrote:
> <sigh> Jon, why don't you just accept the guy's apology and move on? What
> good is in there in humiliating him? In public?
You're right, I'm sure. He's just a kid probably, and doesn't know any better.
It is an object lesson. He did start with me, as you yourself pointed out.
And really, you shouldn't pick a fight with somebody like that --
particularly if you can't follow through... :-)
> At least take this thread off list...
Well... I think the thread's over now. :-)
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Attila Szegedi <sz...@freemail.hu>.
<sigh> Jon, why don't you just accept the guy's apology and move on? What
good is in there in humiliating him? In public? At least take this thread
off list...
--
Attila Szegedi
home: http://www.szegedi.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es>
To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: 2002. október 18. 17:04
Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
On Friday 18 October 2002 03:44 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> All I want is for the list to be used for it's original intent. That's it.
I still don't understand your point, Martin. What is stopping you, for
example, from posting technical content?
You see, I have just done a quick search in the archives and, as best I can
determine (and I *may* have screwed up) you have *never* contributed to any
technical discussion on this list. Never. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> My apologies for treading on your ego Jon.
I am flabbergasted. I think you and other people must truly be delusional.
How
can you possibly bruise my ego when it is so blatantly obvious that you guys
are terrified of engaging me in legitimate technical debate. This is such a
tacit admission of inferiority on you guys' part that, frankly, it makes me
uncomfortable. How can this state of affairs possibly hurt *my* ego????
Don't you and the others realize the black eye that you're giving
yourselves?
You'd quite obviously prefer to shut me up than address deficiencies in your
product. (See no evil, hear no evil.)
You in particular, Martin, take it upon yourself to impart self-righteous
lectures about using the list for its original intent when you have *never*
made any technical contribution yourself. Moreover, I would bet that you
have
never contributed any code to this project -- or to any other project for
that matter. (I could be wrong. Correct me if I am.)
Do you think the implications of all this (hypocrisy, cowardice, etctera)
are
lost on people?
You'd really be doing yourself a favor to reflect on this. As things stand,
I
think it's only fair of me to tell you that you're making a fool of
yourself.
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
>
> Regards
> Martin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Revusky" <jo...@revusky.com>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
>
> On Friday 18 October 2002 01:53 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> > Where do you find the time to come up with these priceless nuggets of
> > text......that are of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
> > Velocity development. Granted, it may be mildly entertaining, but this
> > list's purpose as far as I understand it is to address technical issues
> > relating to (wait for it......) Velocity.
>
> Excuse me, Martin. Do you consider it desirable to apply the same
standards
> consistently? Or, in particular, to apply the same standards to yourself
> that
> you apply to other people?
>
> The initial post in this thread, entitled "Bozo Filter Availble?" was not
> written by me. That post was absolutely devoid of technical content and
> was, moreover (in your very words) of no use to anyone interested in
> serious Velocity Development.
>
> Why was there no complaint forthcoming from you regarding that post?
>
> Perhaps more importantly, this last message of yours is completely devoid
> of technical content and is of absolutely no use to anyone interested in
> serious
> Velocity development.
>
> By the very standard you are espousing, you should have refrained from
> writing
> it.
>
> Now, specifically, I have brought up various technical points in a
> completely
> fair way. Probably, I have made more valid technical points on this list
> over
> the last week than any other participant. Certainly, more than yourself.
So
> far, this rather feeble attempt to flame me is the only contribution to
> this list that I have seen from you.
>
> So, Martin, tell me: Do you have any specific technical contribution to
> make to any discussion here?
>
> Anyway, there are many layers of hypocrisy here. This last post regarding
> Jon
> "Monkey see, Monkey do" Stevens admittedly had no technical content, but
> was a response to a post by someone else that in turn had no technical
> content, and the thread was initiated by yet another individual and the
> post that initiated this thread was devoid of technical content.
>
> Why is it suddenly my fault that this thread is devoid of technical
> content? Why did you not complain to the original poster? And I did not
> bring up the (rather distasteful) subject of Jon Stevens or his
> personality, which is a subject pretty much guaranteed to generate even
> more non-technical content.
>
> I mean, get it off your chest, man. Your position is completely
incoherent.
> You are babbling. What specifically is your problem? Do you even know? I
> mean, to be an honest person, you have to start by being honest with
> yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
On Friday 18 October 2002 03:44 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> All I want is for the list to be used for it's original intent. That's it.
I still don't understand your point, Martin. What is stopping you, for
example, from posting technical content?
You see, I have just done a quick search in the archives and, as best I can
determine (and I *may* have screwed up) you have *never* contributed to any
technical discussion on this list. Never. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> My apologies for treading on your ego Jon.
I am flabbergasted. I think you and other people must truly be delusional. How
can you possibly bruise my ego when it is so blatantly obvious that you guys
are terrified of engaging me in legitimate technical debate. This is such a
tacit admission of inferiority on you guys' part that, frankly, it makes me
uncomfortable. How can this state of affairs possibly hurt *my* ego????
Don't you and the others realize the black eye that you're giving yourselves?
You'd quite obviously prefer to shut me up than address deficiencies in your
product. (See no evil, hear no evil.)
You in particular, Martin, take it upon yourself to impart self-righteous
lectures about using the list for its original intent when you have *never*
made any technical contribution yourself. Moreover, I would bet that you have
never contributed any code to this project -- or to any other project for
that matter. (I could be wrong. Correct me if I am.)
Do you think the implications of all this (hypocrisy, cowardice, etctera) are
lost on people?
You'd really be doing yourself a favor to reflect on this. As things stand, I
think it's only fair of me to tell you that you're making a fool of yourself.
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
>
> Regards
> Martin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Revusky" <jo...@revusky.com>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
>
> On Friday 18 October 2002 01:53 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> > Where do you find the time to come up with these priceless nuggets of
> > text......that are of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
> > Velocity development. Granted, it may be mildly entertaining, but this
> > list's purpose as far as I understand it is to address technical issues
> > relating to (wait for it......) Velocity.
>
> Excuse me, Martin. Do you consider it desirable to apply the same standards
> consistently? Or, in particular, to apply the same standards to yourself
> that
> you apply to other people?
>
> The initial post in this thread, entitled "Bozo Filter Availble?" was not
> written by me. That post was absolutely devoid of technical content and
> was, moreover (in your very words) of no use to anyone interested in
> serious Velocity Development.
>
> Why was there no complaint forthcoming from you regarding that post?
>
> Perhaps more importantly, this last message of yours is completely devoid
> of technical content and is of absolutely no use to anyone interested in
> serious
> Velocity development.
>
> By the very standard you are espousing, you should have refrained from
> writing
> it.
>
> Now, specifically, I have brought up various technical points in a
> completely
> fair way. Probably, I have made more valid technical points on this list
> over
> the last week than any other participant. Certainly, more than yourself. So
> far, this rather feeble attempt to flame me is the only contribution to
> this list that I have seen from you.
>
> So, Martin, tell me: Do you have any specific technical contribution to
> make to any discussion here?
>
> Anyway, there are many layers of hypocrisy here. This last post regarding
> Jon
> "Monkey see, Monkey do" Stevens admittedly had no technical content, but
> was a response to a post by someone else that in turn had no technical
> content, and the thread was initiated by yet another individual and the
> post that initiated this thread was devoid of technical content.
>
> Why is it suddenly my fault that this thread is devoid of technical
> content? Why did you not complain to the original poster? And I did not
> bring up the (rather distasteful) subject of Jon Stevens or his
> personality, which is a subject pretty much guaranteed to generate even
> more non-technical content.
>
> I mean, get it off your chest, man. Your position is completely incoherent.
> You are babbling. What specifically is your problem? Do you even know? I
> mean, to be an honest person, you have to start by being honest with
> yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Attila Szegedi <sz...@freemail.hu>.
I must agree with Jonathan that your initial message was *really* uncalled
for and what Jon responded to it (you didn't expect he *won't* respond, did
you Martin?) is actually valid. It wasn't him that started the non-technical
thread, and it was mostly not him that derailed existing threads he
participated in toward non-technical issues. Actually, the style of your
original message was quite sarcastic, and he really shouldn't have been its
sole and primary addressee - every quarell requires at least two persons. I
don't think that in this situation it was Jon's fault that you happened to
"tread on his Ego" with it. I think it's fair to say that.
Oh well, enough said. I'm not going to deteriorate the list's
signal-to-noise ratio any more on this topic and I certainly don't expect a
reply to this message - at least not on the list, okay?
Let's not get personal; it leads nowhere. Really. Please. Everyone.
Thanks,
Attila.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin van Niekerk" <ma...@realsystems.co.za>
To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: 2002. október 18. 15:44
Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
> All I want is for the list to be used for it's original intent. That's it.
> My apologies for treading on your ego Jon.
>
> Regards
> Martin
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Martin van Niekerk <ma...@realsystems.co.za>.
All I want is for the list to be used for it's original intent. That's it.
My apologies for treading on your ego Jon.
Regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Revusky" <jo...@revusky.com>
To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
On Friday 18 October 2002 01:53 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> Where do you find the time to come up with these priceless nuggets of
> text......that are of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
> Velocity development. Granted, it may be mildly entertaining, but this
> list's purpose as far as I understand it is to address technical issues
> relating to (wait for it......) Velocity.
Excuse me, Martin. Do you consider it desirable to apply the same standards
consistently? Or, in particular, to apply the same standards to yourself
that
you apply to other people?
The initial post in this thread, entitled "Bozo Filter Availble?" was not
written by me. That post was absolutely devoid of technical content and was,
moreover (in your very words) of no use to anyone interested in serious
Velocity Development.
Why was there no complaint forthcoming from you regarding that post?
Perhaps more importantly, this last message of yours is completely devoid of
technical content and is of absolutely no use to anyone interested in
serious
Velocity development.
By the very standard you are espousing, you should have refrained from
writing
it.
Now, specifically, I have brought up various technical points in a
completely
fair way. Probably, I have made more valid technical points on this list
over
the last week than any other participant. Certainly, more than yourself. So
far, this rather feeble attempt to flame me is the only contribution to this
list that I have seen from you.
So, Martin, tell me: Do you have any specific technical contribution to make
to any discussion here?
Anyway, there are many layers of hypocrisy here. This last post regarding
Jon
"Monkey see, Monkey do" Stevens admittedly had no technical content, but was
a response to a post by someone else that in turn had no technical content,
and the thread was initiated by yet another individual and the post that
initiated this thread was devoid of technical content.
Why is it suddenly my fault that this thread is devoid of technical content?
Why did you not complain to the original poster? And I did not bring up the
(rather distasteful) subject of Jon Stevens or his personality, which is a
subject pretty much guaranteed to generate even more non-technical content.
I mean, get it off your chest, man. Your position is completely incoherent.
You are babbling. What specifically is your problem? Do you even know? I
mean, to be an honest person, you have to start by being honest with
yourself.
Best Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
>
> On Friday 18 October 2002 12:14 am, Michael Sallman wrote:
> > There used to be one.
> > Jon Stevens :-)
>
> This is a rather puzzling statement. I assume you're referring to my
> friend --
> using the term "friend" rather loosely --Jon "Monkey see, Monkey do"
> Stevens.
>
> Well, Mr. "Monkey see, Monkey do" is definitely a bozo, and he is a
filter,
> but I don't see how you can describe him as a "bozo filter". (I parse that
> to
> mean a "filter of bozos".)
>
> I mean, I have no doubt that many people have unsubscribed from mailing
> lists
> because of him, but I don't see any reason to classify those people as
> bozos.
> As far as I can see, they would just be people who decided they didn't
have
> time for that brand of juvenile, sneering arrogance, and thus decided
to...
> exercise some good taste.
>
> But anyway, that's all just a digression. As for all this talk of bozo
> filters... well, look... I'm not actively involved in Velocity development
> (that is well known) but I am the maintainer of a couple of other open
> source
> projects, so I do know somewhat whereof I speak. I really think it would
be
> better for you fellows to concentrate your energies on making Velocity
> better
> -- more competitive with the alternative tools in the space -- rather than
> this kind of desperate attempt to filter out messages that you don't want
> to hear.
>
> This would:
>
> (a) be more constructive
>
> (b) show more self-respect (*)
>
> (c) show more respect for your users (**)
>
> (*) The attempt to shut somebody up because -- as is quite blatantly
> obvious -- you cannot respond to the person's points is akin to a tacit
> admission of inferiority.
>
> (**) Despite all the whining and moaning and groaning, the presentation of
> factual technical information about FreeMarker OR any other tool in this
> space is consummately fair. Users can compare and decide for themselves.
To
> try to filter valid technical information off the list AFAICS shows a
clear
> lack of respect for your users -- i.e. their ability to judge and decide
> for themselves.
>
> That really is my honest impression....
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
--
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <jo...@revusky.com>.
On Friday 18 October 2002 01:53 pm, Martin van Niekerk wrote:
> Where do you find the time to come up with these priceless nuggets of
> text......that are of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
> Velocity development. Granted, it may be mildly entertaining, but this
> list's purpose as far as I understand it is to address technical issues
> relating to (wait for it......) Velocity.
Excuse me, Martin. Do you consider it desirable to apply the same standards
consistently? Or, in particular, to apply the same standards to yourself that
you apply to other people?
The initial post in this thread, entitled "Bozo Filter Availble?" was not
written by me. That post was absolutely devoid of technical content and was,
moreover (in your very words) of no use to anyone interested in serious
Velocity Development.
Why was there no complaint forthcoming from you regarding that post?
Perhaps more importantly, this last message of yours is completely devoid of
technical content and is of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
Velocity development.
By the very standard you are espousing, you should have refrained from writing
it.
Now, specifically, I have brought up various technical points in a completely
fair way. Probably, I have made more valid technical points on this list over
the last week than any other participant. Certainly, more than yourself. So
far, this rather feeble attempt to flame me is the only contribution to this
list that I have seen from you.
So, Martin, tell me: Do you have any specific technical contribution to make
to any discussion here?
Anyway, there are many layers of hypocrisy here. This last post regarding Jon
"Monkey see, Monkey do" Stevens admittedly had no technical content, but was
a response to a post by someone else that in turn had no technical content,
and the thread was initiated by yet another individual and the post that
initiated this thread was devoid of technical content.
Why is it suddenly my fault that this thread is devoid of technical content?
Why did you not complain to the original poster? And I did not bring up the
(rather distasteful) subject of Jon Stevens or his personality, which is a
subject pretty much guaranteed to generate even more non-technical content.
I mean, get it off your chest, man. Your position is completely incoherent.
You are babbling. What specifically is your problem? Do you even know? I
mean, to be an honest person, you have to start by being honest with
yourself.
Best Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
>
> On Friday 18 October 2002 12:14 am, Michael Sallman wrote:
> > There used to be one.
> > Jon Stevens :-)
>
> This is a rather puzzling statement. I assume you're referring to my
> friend --
> using the term "friend" rather loosely --Jon "Monkey see, Monkey do"
> Stevens.
>
> Well, Mr. "Monkey see, Monkey do" is definitely a bozo, and he is a filter,
> but I don't see how you can describe him as a "bozo filter". (I parse that
> to
> mean a "filter of bozos".)
>
> I mean, I have no doubt that many people have unsubscribed from mailing
> lists
> because of him, but I don't see any reason to classify those people as
> bozos.
> As far as I can see, they would just be people who decided they didn't have
> time for that brand of juvenile, sneering arrogance, and thus decided to...
> exercise some good taste.
>
> But anyway, that's all just a digression. As for all this talk of bozo
> filters... well, look... I'm not actively involved in Velocity development
> (that is well known) but I am the maintainer of a couple of other open
> source
> projects, so I do know somewhat whereof I speak. I really think it would be
> better for you fellows to concentrate your energies on making Velocity
> better
> -- more competitive with the alternative tools in the space -- rather than
> this kind of desperate attempt to filter out messages that you don't want
> to hear.
>
> This would:
>
> (a) be more constructive
>
> (b) show more self-respect (*)
>
> (c) show more respect for your users (**)
>
> (*) The attempt to shut somebody up because -- as is quite blatantly
> obvious -- you cannot respond to the person's points is akin to a tacit
> admission of inferiority.
>
> (**) Despite all the whining and moaning and groaning, the presentation of
> factual technical information about FreeMarker OR any other tool in this
> space is consummately fair. Users can compare and decide for themselves. To
> try to filter valid technical information off the list AFAICS shows a clear
> lack of respect for your users -- i.e. their ability to judge and decide
> for themselves.
>
> That really is my honest impression....
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Martin van Niekerk <ma...@realsystems.co.za>.
Where do you find the time to come up with these priceless nuggets of
text......that are of absolutely no use to anyone interested in serious
Velocity development. Granted, it may be mildly entertaining, but this
list's purpose as far as I understand it is to address technical issues
relating to (wait for it......) Velocity.
Regards
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es>
To: "Velocity Users List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Bozo Filter Available?
On Friday 18 October 2002 12:14 am, Michael Sallman wrote:
> There used to be one.
> Jon Stevens :-)
This is a rather puzzling statement. I assume you're referring to my
friend --
using the term "friend" rather loosely --Jon "Monkey see, Monkey do"
Stevens.
Well, Mr. "Monkey see, Monkey do" is definitely a bozo, and he is a filter,
but I don't see how you can describe him as a "bozo filter". (I parse that
to
mean a "filter of bozos".)
I mean, I have no doubt that many people have unsubscribed from mailing
lists
because of him, but I don't see any reason to classify those people as
bozos.
As far as I can see, they would just be people who decided they didn't have
time for that brand of juvenile, sneering arrogance, and thus decided to...
exercise some good taste.
But anyway, that's all just a digression. As for all this talk of bozo
filters... well, look... I'm not actively involved in Velocity development
(that is well known) but I am the maintainer of a couple of other open
source
projects, so I do know somewhat whereof I speak. I really think it would be
better for you fellows to concentrate your energies on making Velocity
better
-- more competitive with the alternative tools in the space -- rather than
this kind of desperate attempt to filter out messages that you don't want to
hear.
This would:
(a) be more constructive
(b) show more self-respect (*)
(c) show more respect for your users (**)
(*) The attempt to shut somebody up because -- as is quite blatantly obvious
-- you cannot respond to the person's points is akin to a tacit admission of
inferiority.
(**) Despite all the whining and moaning and groaning, the presentation of
factual technical information about FreeMarker OR any other tool in this
space is consummately fair. Users can compare and decide for themselves. To
try to filter valid technical information off the list AFAICS shows a clear
lack of respect for your users -- i.e. their ability to judge and decide for
themselves.
That really is my honest impression....
Best Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
> Those were the days.
> Oh Jon, where are ye, in this hour of our need!
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
On Friday 18 October 2002 12:14 am, Michael Sallman wrote:
> There used to be one.
> Jon Stevens :-)
This is a rather puzzling statement. I assume you're referring to my friend --
using the term "friend" rather loosely --Jon "Monkey see, Monkey do" Stevens.
Well, Mr. "Monkey see, Monkey do" is definitely a bozo, and he is a filter,
but I don't see how you can describe him as a "bozo filter". (I parse that to
mean a "filter of bozos".)
I mean, I have no doubt that many people have unsubscribed from mailing lists
because of him, but I don't see any reason to classify those people as bozos.
As far as I can see, they would just be people who decided they didn't have
time for that brand of juvenile, sneering arrogance, and thus decided to...
exercise some good taste.
But anyway, that's all just a digression. As for all this talk of bozo
filters... well, look... I'm not actively involved in Velocity development
(that is well known) but I am the maintainer of a couple of other open source
projects, so I do know somewhat whereof I speak. I really think it would be
better for you fellows to concentrate your energies on making Velocity better
-- more competitive with the alternative tools in the space -- rather than
this kind of desperate attempt to filter out messages that you don't want to
hear.
This would:
(a) be more constructive
(b) show more self-respect (*)
(c) show more respect for your users (**)
(*) The attempt to shut somebody up because -- as is quite blatantly obvious
-- you cannot respond to the person's points is akin to a tacit admission of
inferiority.
(**) Despite all the whining and moaning and groaning, the presentation of
factual technical information about FreeMarker OR any other tool in this
space is consummately fair. Users can compare and decide for themselves. To
try to filter valid technical information off the list AFAICS shows a clear
lack of respect for your users -- i.e. their ability to judge and decide for
themselves.
That really is my honest impression....
Best Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison doc
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/fmVsVel.html
Velocity->FreeMarker template conversion utility
http://freemarker.sourceforge.net/usCavalry.html
> Those were the days.
> Oh Jon, where are ye, in this hour of our need!
--
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Re: Bozo Filter Available?
Posted by Michael Sallman <ms...@pro-ns.net>.
There used to be one.
Jon Stevens :-)
Those were the days.
Oh Jon, where are ye, in this hour of our need!
Mike
Terry Steichen wrote:
> Geir,
>
> Do we have a bozo filter we could use? Or would a spam-trap work better. This guy (guess who?) is doing more harm for his product/cause than he seems to imagine. (Probably doesn't have enough traffic on his own list to keep busy.)
>
> Terry
>
>
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