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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Aamir Yaseen <aa...@yahoo.com> on 2006/08/30 11:13:03 UTC
How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Hello everyone,
I want to use SVN for revision control, but I have different repositories of different sizes ranging from 4 to 12 GB.
My problem is that SVN is making backup of whole repository on client machine in the form of Pristine Copies, so it is causing the doubling of storage space.
I have some repositories containing multiple files with size greater than4GB, and user can not afford to have additional 4GB for Pristine Copies.
Can anybody suggest better alternate to save this additional storage?
Is there anyway how I can disable this pristine copies feature? or any other comments
?
Kind Regards
Aamir Yaseen
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca>.
On 8/30/2006 10:27 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> On Aug 30, 2006, at 13:13, Aamir Yaseen wrote:
>
>> I want to use SVN for revision control, but I have different
>> repositories of different sizes ranging from 4 to 12 GB.
>> My problem is that SVN is making backup of whole repository on
>> client machine in the form of Pristine Copies, so it is causing
>> the doubling of storage space.
>>
>> I have some repositories containing multiple files with size
>> greater than4GB, and user can not afford to have additional 4GB for
>> Pristine Copies.
>>
>> Can anybody suggest better alternate to save this additional storage?
>> Is there anyway how I can disable this pristine copies feature? or
>> any other comments?
>
> The pristine copies cannot be disabled, yet. It's an open feature
> request:
>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=525
>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=908
>
> svk, which is based on svn, stores working copies in a different way.
> I'm not sure how it deals with the pristine copies but you may want
> to look into it.
>
> http://svk.elixus.org/
It keeps a copy of the repository locally. This doesn't help much for
saving space when you've got only one working copy (it might help a bit:
svn repositories are compressed; on the other hand, you've got copies
of things even if you don't have working copies). However, if you've
got several working copies from the same repository (e.g. trunk and
branch checkouts), you may see substantial space savings.
The links you mention don't suggest this as a possibility, but I think
getting svn to keep local copies of the whole respository has other
advantages, in that all past history of a file is kept locally, not just
HEAD. This would make working offline a lot more productive. I don't
think this implies dealing with any of the other issues svk addresses
(e.g. you don't need to allow offline commits).
Duncan Murdoch
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Aug 30, 2006, at 13:13, Aamir Yaseen wrote:
> I want to use SVN for revision control, but I have different
> repositories of different sizes ranging from 4 to 12 GB.
> My problem is that SVN is making backup of whole repository on
> client machine in the form of Pristine Copies, so it is causing
> the doubling of storage space.
>
> I have some repositories containing multiple files with size
> greater than4GB, and user can not afford to have additional 4GB for
> Pristine Copies.
>
> Can anybody suggest better alternate to save this additional storage?
> Is there anyway how I can disable this pristine copies feature? or
> any other comments?
The pristine copies cannot be disabled, yet. It's an open feature
request:
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=525
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=908
svk, which is based on svn, stores working copies in a different way.
I'm not sure how it deals with the pristine copies but you may want
to look into it.
http://svk.elixus.org/
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 10:06 -0400, William Nagel wrote:
> 4) Implement an optional "pristineless" checkout yourself.
CVS is still around and still works if you want to trade the
subversion features of delta xfer and atomic nature during commits
for a smaller workspace.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Talden <ta...@gmail.com>.
> > Talden wrote:
> >
> >> Though if suggestions of being able to avoid diffing for
> >> certain mime-types (EG binary types such as archives that
> >> rarely produce useful diff results) are accepted and
> >> implemented then those types wouldn't benefit from a pristine
> >> copy and should probably just store size & date information in the
> >> SVN area.
> Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> What if you wanted to be able to quickly "svn revert" some changes
> without needing to redownload the file from the server?
Excellent point. Scratch my earlier suggestion. Disk is far too cheap
to sacrifice workflow like that (bear in mind I'm always working with
a CVS server in another country with network speeds closer to the
speed of sound than light).
--
Talden
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Marko Kaening <mk...@mch.osram.de>.
> Why not use CVS then ? CVS works well and its not SVN. SVN assumes
Actually I did not migrate my large data folders into SVN, just because of
the storage space issue. I still use CVS.
I don't want to use SVN just because it's cool. No, there are certainly
some things which are better to handle. E.g. renaming or updates on a
large number of files etc.
Anyway, would be good to have the *option* to get rid of the pristine
copies as also Peter pointed out.
But well, disc space is cheap nowadays, isn't it? Too bad that I have
quite expensive (though small) SCSI hard discs in my lab computer...
Marko
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca>.
On 8/31/2006 7:54 AM, Peter Werner wrote:
>> SVN assumes that all operation can be done offline. This is a really
>> cool feature for people mobility. You can perfectly work using
>> subversion while you are travelling.
>
> You are writing the features of svk. svn is betweek svk (offline) and
> cvs (online). svk can do offline commit and log (whole repository is
> stored locally, for me it's smaller than the local copy because of the
> compression).
>
> Nice development workflow is that you keep commits small (at least on
> your branch). If you do that then your history is really useful so you
> can will use the offline log/diff too. For that you need frequent
> commits.
>
> However svn is more stable than svk and has a lot of advantages to cvs
> besides partial offline mode so I think optionally getting rid of
> pristine copies is a good feature request. One more reason can be that
> you might not like to have the .svn subdirectories in your tree even if
> you have a lot of space (like fsvs or svk). If the pristine copies are
> outside of the tree then it could be a network mount, so it solves the
> small HDD problem as well is you have giant network storage (ugly).
Even if offline commits weren't allowed, it would be nice if svn used
the svk strategy of local storage of a copy of the repository.
Duncan Murdoch
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Peter Werner <l....@vasas.no-ip.org>.
> SVN assumes that all operation can be done offline. This is a really
> cool feature for people mobility. You can perfectly work using
> subversion while you are travelling.
You are writing the features of svk. svn is betweek svk (offline) and
cvs (online). svk can do offline commit and log (whole repository is
stored locally, for me it's smaller than the local copy because of the
compression).
Nice development workflow is that you keep commits small (at least on
your branch). If you do that then your history is really useful so you
can will use the offline log/diff too. For that you need frequent
commits.
However svn is more stable than svk and has a lot of advantages to cvs
besides partial offline mode so I think optionally getting rid of
pristine copies is a good feature request. One more reason can be that
you might not like to have the .svn subdirectories in your tree even if
you have a lot of space (like fsvs or svk). If the pristine copies are
outside of the tree then it could be a network mount, so it solves the
small HDD problem as well is you have giant network storage (ugly).
WP
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Olivier Delannoy <ol...@gmail.com>.
Why not use CVS then ? CVS works well and its not SVN. SVN assumes
that all operation can be done offline. This is a really cool feature
for people mobility. You can perfectly work using subversion while you
are travelling. At the end of your travel you commit your change and
you only need some network at that time. In CVS you have to be
connected to the server for most operation.
Select the tool adapted to your need. Even if SVN is cool and I am
pleased with using it daily I don't think its the only interesting SCM
software.
On 8/31/06, Marko Kaening <mk...@mch.osram.de> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> > What if you wanted to be able to quickly "svn revert" some changes without
> > needing to redownload the file from the server?
>
> What if you have a fast intranet connection and a lack of harddisk space?
> In such a situation it would make sense to have the cvs approach, wouldn't
> it?
>
> Marko
>
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>
>
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Marko Kaening <mk...@mch.osram.de>.
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> What if you wanted to be able to quickly "svn revert" some changes without
> needing to redownload the file from the server?
What if you have a fast intranet connection and a lack of harddisk space?
In such a situation it would make sense to have the cvs approach, wouldn't
it?
Marko
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Aug 31, 2006, at 03:36, Gavin Lambert wrote:
> Talden wrote:
>
>> Though if suggestions of being able to avoid diffing for
>> certain mime-types (EG binary types such as archives that
>> rarely produce useful diff results) are accepted and
>> implemented then those types wouldn't benefit from a pristine
>> copy and should probably just store size & date information in the
>> SVN area.
>
> And a checksum, so that SVN can determine if they've been modified or
> not. But yeah, I can't see any reason why they'd need the pristine
> copy
> stored in that case. (Unless you did want 'svn diff' to do something
> useful on them, in which case it'd have to fetch a pristine version
> from
> the server first if it didn't have its own.)
What if you wanted to be able to quickly "svn revert" some changes
without needing to redownload the file from the server?
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RE: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Gavin Lambert <ga...@compacsort.com>.
Quoth Talden <ma...@gmail.com>:
> Though if suggestions of being able to avoid diffing for
> certain mime-types (EG binary types such as archives that
> rarely produce useful diff results) are accepted and
> implemented then those types wouldn't benefit from a pristine
> copy and should probably just store size & date information in the
> SVN area.
And a checksum, so that SVN can determine if they've been modified or
not. But yeah, I can't see any reason why they'd need the pristine copy
stored in that case. (Unless you did want 'svn diff' to do something
useful on them, in which case it'd have to fetch a pristine version from
the server first if it didn't have its own.)
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Talden <ta...@gmail.com>.
> Bill said...
> 4) Implement an optional "pristineless" checkout yourself. This
> would be a fairly major undertaking, but you're not the first person
> to ask for the feature so you may be able to find some help out there
> (check the mailing list archives). If you want it implemented, this
> is probably your only option. Although there are others who want
> this feature, you fall into a fairly small minority and you're going
> to find little to no interest or need for this feature in the current
> Subversion developer pool.
Though if suggestions of being able to avoid diffing for certain
mime-types (EG binary types such as archives that rarely produce
useful diff results) are accepted and implemented then those types
wouldn't benefit from a pristine copy and should probably just store
size & date information in the SVN area.
I agree though that the challenge is finding people with the time and
ability to implement the changes who are also motivated to work on
this issue amongst the many others.
--
Talden
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by William Nagel <bi...@stagelogic.com>.
On Aug 30, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Aamir Yaseen wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> I want to use SVN for revision control, but I have different
> repositories of different sizes ranging from 4 to 12 GB.
> My problem is that SVN is making backup of whole repository on
> client machine in the form of Pristine Copies, so it is causing
> the doubling of storage space.
>
> I have some repositories containing multiple files with size
> greater than4GB, and user can not afford to have additional 4GB for
> Pristine Copies.
>
> Can anybody suggest better alternate to save this additional storage?
> Is there anyway how I can disable this pristine copies feature? or
> any other comments
> ?
No, there isn't. The pristine copies are a fundamental part of how
Subversion handles working directories.
You do have a couple of options, though:
1) For users that aren't going to be modifying the files, they can
get them out of the repository with "svn export", which just
downloads the file or directory without creating the baggage
necessary for a working directory.
2) If users routinely work on only a subset of the repository, have
them only check out that portion as a working directory. Then they
could use "svn export" to get other portions (libraries, for
instance) that they need but won't modify. As long as individual
users aren't switching what they're working on too often and have a
fast connection to the repository this may be a workable solution.
3) Buy bigger hard drives. Disk space is cheap---much cheaper than
most commercial document management systems. This may seem like a
flippant response, but in the long run it really may be the best
solution as it will eliminate any of the "hackish" solutions above
and allow your users to work more productively (thus allowing more
money to be made from their labor, which will end up paying for the
hard drives that you bought).
4) Implement an optional "pristineless" checkout yourself. This
would be a fairly major undertaking, but you're not the first person
to ask for the feature so you may be able to find some help out there
(check the mailing list archives). If you want it implemented, this
is probably your only option. Although there are others who want
this feature, you fall into a fairly small minority and you're going
to find little to no interest or need for this feature in the current
Subversion developer pool.
-Bill
>
> Kind Regards
> Aamir Yaseen
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
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Re: How to Disable Pristine Copies in svn
Posted by Marcus Rohrmoser <mr...@gmx-gmbh.de>.
> making backup of whole repository on client machine
no not of all the repository, but only of the part you checked out to wor=
k with (the working copy).
Greetings,
M