Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

HI Guys,

I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.

Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.

However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.

Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
Aurora dev cycle?

To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.

- Henry

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Hi Chris,

Yes, I was referring to the documentation sprint.
Looks like it was the single day event but the unfortunate use of
sprint to refer to it might confuse me with actual 2-weeks sprint.
Mea culpa jumping the gun there =(

I started seeing sprint tags on the Aurora JIRA tickets without any
discussions in dev@ list about it so I thought there will be a 2-week
sprint dedicated for documentation that matches Twitter sprint
schedule.

Looking forward for the DISCUSS thread about the sprint use in Aurora JIRA =)

- Henry

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Chris Lambert
<cl...@twitter.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi Henry,
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> I have no problem about using sprint to help manage JIRA issues for
>> Twitter development on Aurora.
>> However, the Aurora PPMCs should not use Twitter specific sprints into
>> development discussions in dev@ list nor IRC chat.
>> In ASF, email is the de facto where decisions made and with Sprint
>> some of the decisions are made during daily standup which only
>> exclusive to Twitter.
>>
>
> I'm a little confused... I don't think we've ever done this.  Perhaps
> you're referring to the "doc sprint
> <http://markmail.org/message/kndtd32hj6xr3kek>" that we held recently?  If
> that's the case, it was just an unfortunate choice of words because that
> effort was just a single day focused on docs, totally unrelated to JIRA
> sprints.  Or maybe I'm missing some other situation?
>
>
>> I know Mesos also projects Twitter sprint planning into it's JIRA but
>> as I remember they do not use the sprints into dev release planning.
>> If they do then please let me know so we could let Mesos PMCs know about
>> it.
>>
>
> Nope, the Mesos team follows the Apache Way for its official releases.
>
> So in summary, I think you should do this:
>> 1. Send DISCUSS email to dev@ list to describe how Twitter use sprint
>> to manage Aurora JIRA ticket.
>> 2. If other organizations wants to join then lets find a way to agree
>> upon which sprint could be fit into a release.
>>
>> The most important is transparencies on process and remember Aurora is
>> under ASF incubator and no longer with Twitter.
>> Hope you guys understand.
>>
>
> Of course.  Thanks for keeping us honest.
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Chris Lambert
>> <cl...@twitter.com.invalid> wrote:
>> > Hi Henry,
>> >
>> > Thanks for bringing this up.  We did start using JIRA Scrum Boards to
>> > organize our work about a month or so ago.  This organizes work at
>> Twitter,
>> > but will eventually provide transparency to the community (once there are
>> > many contributors).  In fact, we invite other companies/entities to
>> follow
>> > the same process to provide transparency, if they're interested.  I'll go
>> > ahead and start a thread explaining this, and will also highlight some
>> > alternatives.
>> >
>> > Can you (or any of the other mentors) provide pointers to any other
>> > projects who may be doing something similar, or even to any general
>> > documentation on development process?  (I'm sure I could find some, but
>> as
>> > I've learned from various folks at Apache over the last couple of years,
>> > some are better examples than others.)
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send
>> >>
>> >> - Henry
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <
>> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > HI Guys,
>> >> >
>> >> > I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
>> >> >
>> >> > However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
>> >> > sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
>> >> >
>> >> > Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
>> >> > Aurora dev cycle?
>> >> >
>> >> > To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
>> >> > needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
>> >> > decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Henry
>> >>
>>

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Chris Lambert <cl...@twitter.com.INVALID>]

Hi Henry,

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I have no problem about using sprint to help manage JIRA issues for
> Twitter development on Aurora.
> However, the Aurora PPMCs should not use Twitter specific sprints into
> development discussions in dev@ list nor IRC chat.
> In ASF, email is the de facto where decisions made and with Sprint
> some of the decisions are made during daily standup which only
> exclusive to Twitter.
>

I'm a little confused... I don't think we've ever done this.  Perhaps
you're referring to the "doc sprint
<http://markmail.org/message/kndtd32hj6xr3kek>" that we held recently?  If
that's the case, it was just an unfortunate choice of words because that
effort was just a single day focused on docs, totally unrelated to JIRA
sprints.  Or maybe I'm missing some other situation?


> I know Mesos also projects Twitter sprint planning into it's JIRA but
> as I remember they do not use the sprints into dev release planning.
> If they do then please let me know so we could let Mesos PMCs know about
> it.
>

Nope, the Mesos team follows the Apache Way for its official releases.

So in summary, I think you should do this:
> 1. Send DISCUSS email to dev@ list to describe how Twitter use sprint
> to manage Aurora JIRA ticket.
> 2. If other organizations wants to join then lets find a way to agree
> upon which sprint could be fit into a release.
>
> The most important is transparencies on process and remember Aurora is
> under ASF incubator and no longer with Twitter.
> Hope you guys understand.
>

Of course.  Thanks for keeping us honest.

Chris


>
> Thanks,
>
> - Henry
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Chris Lambert
> <cl...@twitter.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Hi Henry,
> >
> > Thanks for bringing this up.  We did start using JIRA Scrum Boards to
> > organize our work about a month or so ago.  This organizes work at
> Twitter,
> > but will eventually provide transparency to the community (once there are
> > many contributors).  In fact, we invite other companies/entities to
> follow
> > the same process to provide transparency, if they're interested.  I'll go
> > ahead and start a thread explaining this, and will also highlight some
> > alternatives.
> >
> > Can you (or any of the other mentors) provide pointers to any other
> > projects who may be doing something similar, or even to any general
> > documentation on development process?  (I'm sure I could find some, but
> as
> > I've learned from various folks at Apache over the last couple of years,
> > some are better examples than others.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send
> >>
> >> - Henry
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <
> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > HI Guys,
> >> >
> >> > I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
> >> >
> >> > Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
> >> >
> >> > However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
> >> > sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
> >> >
> >> > Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
> >> > Aurora dev cycle?
> >> >
> >> > To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
> >> > needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
> >> > decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
> >> >
> >> > - Henry
> >>
>

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Just to clarify my previous comment that as initially mention in the
proposal, the intent of Twitter to donate the project under ASF
incubator is: "to build a diverse developer community around Aurora
that will conduct itself according to The Apache Way", so that is why
I have been constantly reminding to do more open and discussion in
dev@ list.
Assume that every PPMC could not see each other face when doing
discussion and development =)

Love to see Twitter contributing to ASF but we just have to make sure
the community does not miss anything.

Thanks,

Henry

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I have no problem about using sprint to help manage JIRA issues for
> Twitter development on Aurora.
> However, the Aurora PPMCs should not use Twitter specific sprints into
> development discussions in dev@ list nor IRC chat.
> In ASF, email is the de facto where decisions made and with Sprint
> some of the decisions are made during daily standup which only
> exclusive to Twitter.
>
> I know Mesos also projects Twitter sprint planning into it's JIRA but
> as I remember they do not use the sprints into dev release planning.
> If they do then please let me know so we could let Mesos PMCs know about it.
>
> So in summary, I think you should do this:
> 1. Send DISCUSS email to dev@ list to describe how Twitter use sprint
> to manage Aurora JIRA ticket.
> 2. If other organizations wants to join then lets find a way to agree
> upon which sprint could be fit into a release.
>
> The most important is transparencies on process and remember Aurora is
> under ASF incubator and no longer with Twitter.
> Hope you guys understand.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Henry
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Chris Lambert
> <cl...@twitter.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Hi Henry,
>>
>> Thanks for bringing this up.  We did start using JIRA Scrum Boards to
>> organize our work about a month or so ago.  This organizes work at Twitter,
>> but will eventually provide transparency to the community (once there are
>> many contributors).  In fact, we invite other companies/entities to follow
>> the same process to provide transparency, if they're interested.  I'll go
>> ahead and start a thread explaining this, and will also highlight some
>> alternatives.
>>
>> Can you (or any of the other mentors) provide pointers to any other
>> projects who may be doing something similar, or even to any general
>> documentation on development process?  (I'm sure I could find some, but as
>> I've learned from various folks at Apache over the last couple of years,
>> some are better examples than others.)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send
>>>
>>> - Henry
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > HI Guys,
>>> >
>>> > I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
>>> >
>>> > Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
>>> >
>>> > However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
>>> > sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
>>> >
>>> > Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
>>> > Aurora dev cycle?
>>> >
>>> > To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
>>> > needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
>>> > decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
>>> >
>>> > - Henry
>>>

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply.

I have no problem about using sprint to help manage JIRA issues for
Twitter development on Aurora.
However, the Aurora PPMCs should not use Twitter specific sprints into
development discussions in dev@ list nor IRC chat.
In ASF, email is the de facto where decisions made and with Sprint
some of the decisions are made during daily standup which only
exclusive to Twitter.

I know Mesos also projects Twitter sprint planning into it's JIRA but
as I remember they do not use the sprints into dev release planning.
If they do then please let me know so we could let Mesos PMCs know about it.

So in summary, I think you should do this:
1. Send DISCUSS email to dev@ list to describe how Twitter use sprint
to manage Aurora JIRA ticket.
2. If other organizations wants to join then lets find a way to agree
upon which sprint could be fit into a release.

The most important is transparencies on process and remember Aurora is
under ASF incubator and no longer with Twitter.
Hope you guys understand.

Thanks,

- Henry

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Chris Lambert
<cl...@twitter.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi Henry,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up.  We did start using JIRA Scrum Boards to
> organize our work about a month or so ago.  This organizes work at Twitter,
> but will eventually provide transparency to the community (once there are
> many contributors).  In fact, we invite other companies/entities to follow
> the same process to provide transparency, if they're interested.  I'll go
> ahead and start a thread explaining this, and will also highlight some
> alternatives.
>
> Can you (or any of the other mentors) provide pointers to any other
> projects who may be doing something similar, or even to any general
> documentation on development process?  (I'm sure I could find some, but as
> I've learned from various folks at Apache over the last couple of years,
> some are better examples than others.)
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > HI Guys,
>> >
>> > I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
>> >
>> > Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
>> >
>> > However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
>> > sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
>> >
>> > Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
>> > Aurora dev cycle?
>> >
>> > To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
>> > needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
>> > decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
>> >
>> > - Henry
>>

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Chris Lambert <cl...@twitter.com.INVALID>]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for bringing this up.  We did start using JIRA Scrum Boards to
organize our work about a month or so ago.  This organizes work at Twitter,
but will eventually provide transparency to the community (once there are
many contributors).  In fact, we invite other companies/entities to follow
the same process to provide transparency, if they're interested.  I'll go
ahead and start a thread explaining this, and will also highlight some
alternatives.

Can you (or any of the other mentors) provide pointers to any other
projects who may be doing something similar, or even to any general
documentation on development process?  (I'm sure I could find some, but as
I've learned from various folks at Apache over the last couple of years,
some are better examples than others.)

Thanks,
Chris


On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send
>
> - Henry
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > HI Guys,
> >
> > I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
> >
> > Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
> >
> > However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
> > sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
> >
> > Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
> > Aurora dev cycle?
> >
> > To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
> > needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
> > decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
> >
> > - Henry
>

Re: Question about sprint in Aurora development

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Re-ping, just in case the email did not get send

- Henry

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> HI Guys,
>
> I start noticing that Aurora jira has sprint tagged to the issue.
>
> Kevin also has sent email about documentation sprint happening.
>
> However I dont think I ever recall explicit discussion about having
> sprint-like mode to drive development for Aurora.
>
> Seemed like internal Twitter sprint is being brought into Apache
> Aurora dev cycle?
>
> To be clear, I am not against such sprint dev model in Aurora but it
> needs to be explicitly discuss in the dev list instead of implicitly
> decided at Twitter for the sake of openness and the Apache way.
>
> - Henry