Website update ideas

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

I've been mulling over a better style for the community.a.o website. 
While it's simple and to the point, it feels like the style could be 
more welcoming, and have a few more signposts to specific topics on the 
homepage.

  It always feels easier to click through to something when perhaps the 
Newcomers para on the homepage actually has a few welcoming examples of 
- downloading software, getting the source, finding your way around, 
etc. instead of just a "newcomers page".

Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)

- Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section

- Each of newcomer/contributor/committer sections has brief description, 
then a handful of specifically named links to the sub-page (anchors 
about tech/community/other info, etc.)

- Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, 
the original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and 
the /history pages on the a.o site

- Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other 
mailing lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the 
appropriate list(s) so they can start the conversation.

- Shane, hoping to improve here soon

Stretch goal is adding simple table, with direct links to key 
how-it-works, etc. pages for top concepts people might search for: Get 
the code, Download software, Report bugs, etc. - probably with columns 
for "geeks" and "newcomers" (the geek ones go directly to svn.a.o or 
similar; the newcomer versions go to explanatory pages under /dev, etc.)

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RE: Website update ideas

[Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>]

Pretty sure the website is owned by community dev and as such
This discussion should take place over on the dev@community.apache.org
Mailing list.

I don’t _think_ they own this generic list yet.

Gav...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 10:55 AM
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Website update ideas
> 
> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> > I've been mulling over a better style for the community.a.o website.
> > While it's simple and to the point, it feels like the style could be
> > more welcoming, and have a few more signposts to specific topics on the
> homepage.
> 
> I was not aware (or perhaps had forgotten) that the site even existed.
> Perhaps the site needs more promotion / links on the main ASF site?
> 
> How many visitors does the site get compared with www.a.o, and where do
> they get referred from?
> 
> >  It always feels easier to click through to something when perhaps the
> > Newcomers para on the homepage actually has a few welcoming examples
> > of - downloading software, getting the source, finding your way around,
> etc.
> > instead of just a "newcomers page".
> >
> > Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend?
> > 8-)
> >
> > - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section
> >
> > - Each of newcomer/contributor/committer sections has brief
> > description, then a handful of specifically named links to the
> > sub-page (anchors about tech/community/other info, etc.)
> >
> > - Beef up History section to include public records (all board
> > reports, the original resolution), plus links to the
> > /foundation/governance and the /history pages on the a.o site
> >
> > - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other
> > mailing lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the
> > appropriate
> > list(s) so they can start the conversation.
> >
> > - Shane, hoping to improve here soon
> >
> > Stretch goal is adding simple table, with direct links to key
> > how-it-works, etc. pages for top concepts people might search for: Get
> > the code, Download software, Report bugs, etc. - probably with columns
> > for "geeks" and "newcomers" (the geek ones go directly to svn.a.o or
> > similar; the newcomer versions go to explanatory pages under /dev,
> > etc.)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org For
> > additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org For additional
> commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org

RE: Website update ideas

[Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>]

Pretty sure the website is owned by community dev and as such
This discussion should take place over on the dev@community.apache.org
Mailing list.

I don’t _think_ they own this generic list yet.

Gav...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 10:55 AM
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Website update ideas
> 
> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> > I've been mulling over a better style for the community.a.o website.
> > While it's simple and to the point, it feels like the style could be
> > more welcoming, and have a few more signposts to specific topics on the
> homepage.
> 
> I was not aware (or perhaps had forgotten) that the site even existed.
> Perhaps the site needs more promotion / links on the main ASF site?
> 
> How many visitors does the site get compared with www.a.o, and where do
> they get referred from?
> 
> >  It always feels easier to click through to something when perhaps the
> > Newcomers para on the homepage actually has a few welcoming examples
> > of - downloading software, getting the source, finding your way around,
> etc.
> > instead of just a "newcomers page".
> >
> > Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend?
> > 8-)
> >
> > - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section
> >
> > - Each of newcomer/contributor/committer sections has brief
> > description, then a handful of specifically named links to the
> > sub-page (anchors about tech/community/other info, etc.)
> >
> > - Beef up History section to include public records (all board
> > reports, the original resolution), plus links to the
> > /foundation/governance and the /history pages on the a.o site
> >
> > - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other
> > mailing lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the
> > appropriate
> > list(s) so they can start the conversation.
> >
> > - Shane, hoping to improve here soon
> >
> > Stretch goal is adding simple table, with direct links to key
> > how-it-works, etc. pages for top concepts people might search for: Get
> > the code, Download software, Report bugs, etc. - probably with columns
> > for "geeks" and "newcomers" (the geek ones go directly to svn.a.o or
> > similar; the newcomer versions go to explanatory pages under /dev,
> > etc.)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org For
> > additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org For additional
> commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org



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Re: Website update ideas

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> I've been mulling over a better style for the community.a.o website. While
> it's simple and to the point, it feels like the style could be more
> welcoming, and have a few more signposts to specific topics on the homepage.

I was not aware (or perhaps had forgotten) that the site even existed.
Perhaps the site needs more promotion / links on the main ASF site?

How many visitors does the site get compared with www.a.o, and where
do they get referred from?

>  It always feels easier to click through to something when perhaps the
> Newcomers para on the homepage actually has a few welcoming examples of -
> downloading software, getting the source, finding your way around, etc.
> instead of just a "newcomers page".
>
> Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)
>
> - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section
>
> - Each of newcomer/contributor/committer sections has brief description,
> then a handful of specifically named links to the sub-page (anchors about
> tech/community/other info, etc.)
>
> - Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, the
> original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and the
> /history pages on the a.o site
>
> - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other mailing
> lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the appropriate
> list(s) so they can start the conversation.
>
> - Shane, hoping to improve here soon
>
> Stretch goal is adding simple table, with direct links to key how-it-works,
> etc. pages for top concepts people might search for: Get the code, Download
> software, Report bugs, etc. - probably with columns for "geeks" and
> "newcomers" (the geek ones go directly to svn.a.o or similar; the newcomer
> versions go to explanatory pages under /dev, etc.)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>

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Re: Website update ideas

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

ACK and ACK.  And depending on the weather this weekend I may add the 
normal headers (Title: / Notice:) found on a.o site pages to all the 
community site pages as well for consistency.

Indeed, short and to the point, but explanatory, and serving as an 
intelligent signpost to the many other canonical sources of information 
about ASF policies and Apache projects.

- Shane

On 2012-05-18 8:46 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> On 05/18/2012 02:17 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> (moved to dev@community.apache.org)
>>
>> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org>  wrote:
>>> Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)
> I find it easy enough to navigate, and the colors and so on are nice,
> but my overall feeling is that it's too...spacious, for lack of a better
> word. Style-wise, you could perhaps use a slightly smaller font for the
> headings, as they seem to be way off compared to the actual text.
> Perhaps the links could be incorporated into the headings (or the
> headings could become bullet points), so it becomes even more obvious
> that this and that information is something you should now choose between.
>>> - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section
> I actually like how it's straight and to the point. The introduction
> should say something about "what is this page for, and why should I be
> looking at it", but not a whole lot more. If it becomes too long, then
> people will more likely tend to simply ignore the introduction.
>>> - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other mailing
>>> lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the appropriate
>>> list(s) so they can start the conversation.
> I completely agree. People need to be aware of the mailing list AND the
> community site the minute they decide to contribute to Apache, as
> there's quite a lot of useful information to be found there. On a
> different note, there's a small error on
> http://community.apache.org/mentorprogrammeapplication.html wherein the
> mailing list address is written as
> "mailto:dev-subscribe@community.apache.org.html" (the html should
> probably be removed ;) ).
>
> And last but perhaps not least, the copyright notice should be updated
> to display 2012 instead of 2011 :)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.

Re: Website update ideas

[Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>]

On 05/18/2012 02:17 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> (moved to dev@community.apache.org)
>
> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>> Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)
I find it easy enough to navigate, and the colors and so on are nice,
but my overall feeling is that it's too...spacious, for lack of a better
word. Style-wise, you could perhaps use a slightly smaller font for the
headings, as they seem to be way off compared to the actual text.
Perhaps the links could be incorporated into the headings (or the
headings could become bullet points), so it becomes even more obvious
that this and that information is something you should now choose between.
>> - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section
I actually like how it's straight and to the point. The introduction
should say something about "what is this page for, and why should I be
looking at it", but not a whole lot more. If it becomes too long, then
people will more likely tend to simply ignore the introduction.
>> - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other mailing
>> lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the appropriate
>> list(s) so they can start the conversation.
I completely agree. People need to be aware of the mailing list AND the
community site the minute they decide to contribute to Apache, as
there's quite a lot of useful information to be found there. On a
different note, there's a small error on
http://community.apache.org/mentorprogrammeapplication.html wherein the
mailing list address is written as
"mailto:dev-subscribe@community.apache.org.html" (the html should
probably be removed ;) ).

And last but perhaps not least, the copyright notice should be updated
to display 2012 instead of 2011 :)

With regards,
Daniel.

Re: Website update ideas

[Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>]

On 21 May 2012 12:06, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> P.S. Huh.  Maybe the standard a.o footer "Foundation" section should have a
> "Newcomers" link or the like that points to community.a.o. Otherwise, as
> someone asked, how do people even find this site?

+1

I've not worked to link it in to the rest of the site because work
around here tends to be GSOC focussed and we push this site to the
students. However, I think I missed the fact that the site has grown
well beyond that and should be more widely used.

We should also start tieing it into the incubator site, but that is a
bigger issue as we saw during the "reboot IPMC" discussions.

> P.P.S. Was it a conscious decision to use a different page template than
> a.o, or just an oversight?  Pondering if we should consider adding the a.o
> footer or not, etc., or just keep it super simple.

Not, as far as I am aware, conscious. I suspect that when Nick did the
conversion from CWiki to CMS for us, which was right at the start of
the CMS, he chose the easiest route to get something working.

Ross

Re: Website update ideas

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

Totally agreed - I was just saying that the History section would 
include links to existing resources - plus perhaps a brief sentence 
explaining what those things actually meant (so that newcomers can 
decide if they're interested in them!).

Agreed on duplication just within the /dev and other official areas in 
some cases too - but don't have the mental energy quite yet to tackle those.

- Shane

P.S. Huh.  Maybe the standard a.o footer "Foundation" section should 
have a "Newcomers" link or the like that points to community.a.o. 
Otherwise, as someone asked, how do people even find this site?

P.P.S. Was it a conscious decision to use a different page template than 
a.o, or just an oversight?  Pondering if we should consider adding the 
a.o footer or not, etc., or just keep it super simple.

On 2012-05-21 3:47 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org>  wrote:
> ...
>>> - Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, the
>>> original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and the
>>> /history pages on the a.o site...
>
> We have IMO way too much duplication of this basic info around our
> sites, so in general it's probably better to just link to information
> that's already available elsewhere.
>
> -Bertrand

Re: Website update ideas

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

> On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
...
>> - Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, the
>> original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and the
>> /history pages on the a.o site...

We have IMO way too much duplication of this basic info around our
sites, so in general it's probably better to just link to information
that's already available elsewhere.

-Bertrand

Re: Website update ideas

[Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>]

(moved to dev@community.apache.org)

On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)

I doubt it. The reality is that it was thrown together that way for
lack of people to improve it.

> - Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section

As long as the word count is kept low. Far too many ASF pages are
wordy and it's hard to get to what you need.

> - Each of newcomer/contributor/committer sections has brief description,
> then a handful of specifically named links to the sub-page (anchors about
> tech/community/other info, etc.)

I've always liked the three boxes next to one another as an entry point, e.g.

> - Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, the
> original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and the
> /history pages on the a.o site

This would be good, there is some great stuff scattered around.
However, I wouldn't want this to have equal billing to people entry
points. I'd think of this as more of a resources for press.

> - Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other mailing
> lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the appropriate
> list(s) so they can start the conversation.

+1000

> - Shane, hoping to improve here soon

Yay!

> Stretch goal is adding simple table, with direct links to key how-it-works,
> etc. pages for top concepts people might search for: Get the code, Download
> software, Report bugs, etc. - probably with columns for "geeks" and
> "newcomers" (the geek ones go directly to svn.a.o or similar; the newcomer
> versions go to explanatory pages under /dev, etc.)

Lets keep it simple for now. I do think we can provide easy access but
don't want us to go in ten directions at once. The goal here is to be
a signpost, not a directory.

Ross