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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by Eran Chinthaka <ch...@apache.org> on 2008/12/01 02:30:43 UTC
Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2 as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
It seems no one is interested in the TLP idea anymore.
We better discuss this now, rather than thinking silently. At the same time
I don't think these discussion are reasons for people to get frustrated. Its
just perspectives and being a diverse community we should be able to digest
other ideas.
Anyway, I think pretty much everyone agrees we should move to a new TLP. But
the question is what we should move with us. So I think its good to start a
discussion on this.
So what do you all think? Shall we move WS-Commons with it or not? I think
we should, especially because of the convenience of axis2 developer. And I
don't think that will hinder anyone using anything within WS-Commons
components.
What do you all think? Let's have a friendly discussion.
Thanks,
Chinthaka
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:06 AM, David Illsley <da...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> OK, I haven't discussd my thinking yet, so here goes.
>>
>> IMO the WS project is a disparate collection of stuff. This leads to:
>> a. A lack of a coherent community
>
>
> I agree with this point. Thats why I agreed to the idea of TLP, at last
> (thanks to Ajith and Ruchith ;) )
>
>
>>
>> b. A tough job for users to get what they want from the WS project
>
>
> I'm not sure what you meant here. But what is so difficult for users? May
> be I'm wrong as I am wearing Axis2-dev hat and not the user hat.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I think that Axis2 and related technologies would be better served as
>> a TLP which gathers just related technologies together. This should
>> encourage a coherent community within the TLP, and making a TLP level
>> decision to, for example, ship an Axis2 RSP bundle with Rampart and
>> Sandesha pre-configured - the lack of whih is something I'm sure if
>> hurting Axis2 at the moment,
>
>
> Totally agree.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Given those thoughts, in my perfect world, I'd split Axis2/Java and
>> Axis2/C into different TLPs as they do have pretty different
>> communities (user and dev).
>>
>> As to which Java based projects I'd ship to Axis2/Java and which I'd
>> leave in WS...
>>
>> Axiom... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. It has a lot
>> to give, but is currently very effectively hidden from users. I think
>> this would continue to be the case if it were moved under an Axis2
>> TLP.
>>
>
> It has lot to give, agree. But by moving that in to Axis2, will that be
> hidden more? With Google, it is hard to hide something. Search for "XML stax
> object model", "XML object model", etc. You will see Axiom in first 5 links.
> If you use some other keywords, if Axiom is not coming up, then we need to
> improve our Axiom page with SEO techniques, which I think is a different
> question.
>
> So I don't think there is a visibility problem. Its all about, how famous
> and effective it is than the URL or the location.
>
>
>>
>> Neethi... last time I looked, it was only really useful when used with
>> Axis2, so I'd move that to an Axis2 TLP
>
>
> +1
>
>
>>
>>
>> WS-Commons Transports... These are genuinely used by multiple TLPs and
>> there is unlikely to be much 'user' interest in this project because
>> we'll presumably ship them as part of Axis2 and Synapse. Therfore I
>> don't think it matters much, so staying in WS seems reasonable.
>
>
> I'd rather push these in to Axis2 TLP.
>
>
>>
>>
>> XmlSchema... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. Used
>> widely, not Axis2 specific, and deserves a little more visibility.
>
>
> I'm 0- on this.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Sandesha2, Rampart, Kandula2, Savan... move to an Axis2 TLP. These are
>> (reasonably) tightly coupled to Axis2, drive Axis2 in interesting ways
>> and are in demand by a large number of Axis2 users. Moving them to an
>> Axis2 TLP would (IMO) allow that PMC to ship a compelling bundle and
>> build a coherent community.
>
>
> +1
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2 as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Some of us aren't on axis-dev or private, but, then again, our votes dont bind.
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Eran Chinthaka <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Benson,
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Eran,
>>
>> I get the feeling that you have some particular individuals in mind
>> who haven't been heard from since the vote was called off, since there
>> have been some discussion contributions from others.
>
>
> I'm not sure which part of my email made you think like this. Anyway, no I
> have no one in mind. I want/like to see everyone's idea on this.
>
>
>>
>>
>> I think I could safely summarize as to write the following: no one is
>> on the recent record as opposing the overall idea of hiving off an
>> Axis2 TLP. Several of us have expressed strong feelings that certain
>> components should remain behind in the commons TLP.
>>
>> What I'd like to know is whether any of the core Axis2 community are
>> in '-1' with the proposed list of components to leave behind.
>
>
> I'm on -1 for leaving Axiom behind.
>
>
>> Or,
>> alternatively, would you or some other core Axis person care to lay
>> out an affirmative proposal that reflects your ideas about what you
>> want to take, given what you've heard from the rest of us?
>
>
> I made a proposal to axis-dev and private@ but only few replied. May be you
> haven't seen that.
>
> Thanks,
> Eran
>
Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2 as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <ch...@apache.org>.
Hi Benson,
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Eran,
>
> I get the feeling that you have some particular individuals in mind
> who haven't been heard from since the vote was called off, since there
> have been some discussion contributions from others.
I'm not sure which part of my email made you think like this. Anyway, no I
have no one in mind. I want/like to see everyone's idea on this.
>
>
> I think I could safely summarize as to write the following: no one is
> on the recent record as opposing the overall idea of hiving off an
> Axis2 TLP. Several of us have expressed strong feelings that certain
> components should remain behind in the commons TLP.
>
> What I'd like to know is whether any of the core Axis2 community are
> in '-1' with the proposed list of components to leave behind.
I'm on -1 for leaving Axiom behind.
> Or,
> alternatively, would you or some other core Axis person care to lay
> out an affirmative proposal that reflects your ideas about what you
> want to take, given what you've heard from the rest of us?
I made a proposal to axis-dev and private@ but only few replied. May be you
haven't seen that.
Thanks,
Eran
Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2 as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Eran,
I get the feeling that you have some particular individuals in mind
who haven't been heard from since the vote was called off, since there
have been some discussion contributions from others.
I think I could safely summarize as to write the following: no one is
on the recent record as opposing the overall idea of hiving off an
Axis2 TLP. Several of us have expressed strong feelings that certain
components should remain behind in the commons TLP.
What I'd like to know is whether any of the core Axis2 community are
in '-1' with the proposed list of components to leave behind. Or,
alternatively, would you or some other core Axis person care to lay
out an affirmative proposal that reflects your ideas about what you
want to take, given what you've heard from the rest of us?
--benson
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Eran Chinthaka <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> It seems no one is interested in the TLP idea anymore.
>
> We better discuss this now, rather than thinking silently. At the same time
> I don't think these discussion are reasons for people to get frustrated. Its
> just perspectives and being a diverse community we should be able to digest
> other ideas.
>
> Anyway, I think pretty much everyone agrees we should move to a new TLP. But
> the question is what we should move with us. So I think its good to start a
> discussion on this.
>
> So what do you all think? Shall we move WS-Commons with it or not? I think
> we should, especially because of the convenience of axis2 developer. And I
> don't think that will hinder anyone using anything within WS-Commons
> components.
>
> What do you all think? Let's have a friendly discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Eran Chinthaka <er...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Please see my comments in-line.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:06 AM, David Illsley <da...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> OK, I haven't discussd my thinking yet, so here goes.
>>>
>>> IMO the WS project is a disparate collection of stuff. This leads to:
>>> a. A lack of a coherent community
>>
>>
>> I agree with this point. Thats why I agreed to the idea of TLP, at last
>> (thanks to Ajith and Ruchith ;) )
>>
>>
>>>
>>> b. A tough job for users to get what they want from the WS project
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what you meant here. But what is so difficult for users? May
>> be I'm wrong as I am wearing Axis2-dev hat and not the user hat.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that Axis2 and related technologies would be better served as
>>> a TLP which gathers just related technologies together. This should
>>> encourage a coherent community within the TLP, and making a TLP level
>>> decision to, for example, ship an Axis2 RSP bundle with Rampart and
>>> Sandesha pre-configured - the lack of whih is something I'm sure if
>>> hurting Axis2 at the moment,
>>
>>
>> Totally agree.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Given those thoughts, in my perfect world, I'd split Axis2/Java and
>>> Axis2/C into different TLPs as they do have pretty different
>>> communities (user and dev).
>>>
>>> As to which Java based projects I'd ship to Axis2/Java and which I'd
>>> leave in WS...
>>>
>>> Axiom... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. It has a lot
>>> to give, but is currently very effectively hidden from users. I think
>>> this would continue to be the case if it were moved under an Axis2
>>> TLP.
>>>
>>
>> It has lot to give, agree. But by moving that in to Axis2, will that be
>> hidden more? With Google, it is hard to hide something. Search for "XML stax
>> object model", "XML object model", etc. You will see Axiom in first 5 links.
>> If you use some other keywords, if Axiom is not coming up, then we need to
>> improve our Axiom page with SEO techniques, which I think is a different
>> question.
>>
>> So I don't think there is a visibility problem. Its all about, how famous
>> and effective it is than the URL or the location.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Neethi... last time I looked, it was only really useful when used with
>>> Axis2, so I'd move that to an Axis2 TLP
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> WS-Commons Transports... These are genuinely used by multiple TLPs and
>>> there is unlikely to be much 'user' interest in this project because
>>> we'll presumably ship them as part of Axis2 and Synapse. Therfore I
>>> don't think it matters much, so staying in WS seems reasonable.
>>
>>
>> I'd rather push these in to Axis2 TLP.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> XmlSchema... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. Used
>>> widely, not Axis2 specific, and deserves a little more visibility.
>>
>>
>> I'm 0- on this.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sandesha2, Rampart, Kandula2, Savan... move to an Axis2 TLP. These are
>>> (reasonably) tightly coupled to Axis2, drive Axis2 in interesting ways
>>> and are in demand by a large number of Axis2 users. Moving them to an
>>> Axis2 TLP would (IMO) allow that PMC to ship a compelling bundle and
>>> build a coherent community.
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chinthaka
>>
>>
>
Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2
as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> It seems no one is interested in the TLP idea anymore.
Hehe :)
>
> We better discuss this now, rather than thinking silently. At the same
> time I don't think these discussion are reasons for people to get
> frustrated. Its just perspectives and being a diverse community we
> should be able to digest other ideas.
Agreed , as long as we treat each individual more responsible manner. As
I always tells , we need to make this a more friendlily mailing list.
Having said that in Apache what importance is "Community" NOT the code.
So we should always give our first priority to the community and then
the code.
>
> Anyway, I think pretty much everyone agrees we should move to a new
> TLP. But the question is what we should move with us. So I think its
> good to start a discussion on this.
Didnt we discuss this a number of time ,I agree we did not come to a
conclusion but we discussed. Anyway let's discuss.
>
> So what do you all think? Shall we move WS-Commons with it or not? I
> think we should, especially because of the convenience of axis2
> developer. And I don't think that will hinder anyone using anything
> within WS-Commons components.
>
Well , I do not mind moving any of the project as TLPs. In fact I have
mentioned a number of times that we also need to move Axiom as TLP. And
make that the Pull parser based XML inforset representation. However
moving Axis2 into TLP and making Axiom a TLP a totally different
discussion. IMO we should not move Axiom into Axis2 (I am -0 on this).
About neethi , I do not think we need to move that with Axis2 , we can
keep that inside WS , same thing would be apply to XML Schema as well.
However I am not still clear about transport. In my view those transport
can not work without Axis2. So those should be sub project of Axis2.
Even I am +0 on that too.
> What do you all think? Let's have a friendly discussion.
Hehe +1
Deepal
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:06 AM, David Illsley
> <davidillsley@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> OK, I haven't discussd my thinking yet, so here goes.
>
> IMO the WS project is a disparate collection of stuff. This
> leads to:
> a. A lack of a coherent community
>
>
> I agree with this point. Thats why I agreed to the idea of TLP, at
> last (thanks to Ajith and Ruchith ;) )
>
>
>
> b. A tough job for users to get what they want from the WS project
>
>
> I'm not sure what you meant here. But what is so difficult for
> users? May be I'm wrong as I am wearing Axis2-dev hat and not the
> user hat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think that Axis2 and related technologies would be better
> served as
> a TLP which gathers just related technologies together. This
> should
> encourage a coherent community within the TLP, and making a
> TLP level
> decision to, for example, ship an Axis2 RSP bundle with
> Rampart and
> Sandesha pre-configured - the lack of whih is something I'm
> sure if
> hurting Axis2 at the moment,
>
>
> Totally agree.
>
>
>
>
> Given those thoughts, in my perfect world, I'd split
> Axis2/Java and
> Axis2/C into different TLPs as they do have pretty different
> communities (user and dev).
>
> As to which Java based projects I'd ship to Axis2/Java and
> which I'd
> leave in WS...
>
> Axiom... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. It
> has a lot
> to give, but is currently very effectively hidden from users.
> I think
> this would continue to be the case if it were moved under an Axis2
> TLP.
>
>
> It has lot to give, agree. But by moving that in to Axis2, will
> that be hidden more? With Google, it is hard to hide something.
> Search for "XML stax object model", "XML object model", etc. You
> will see Axiom in first 5 links. If you use some other keywords,
> if Axiom is not coming up, then we need to improve our Axiom page
> with SEO techniques, which I think is a different question.
>
> So I don't think there is a visibility problem. Its all about, how
> famous and effective it is than the URL or the location.
>
>
>
> Neethi... last time I looked, it was only really useful when
> used with
> Axis2, so I'd move that to an Axis2 TLP
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
> WS-Commons Transports... These are genuinely used by multiple
> TLPs and
> there is unlikely to be much 'user' interest in this project
> because
> we'll presumably ship them as part of Axis2 and Synapse.
> Therfore I
> don't think it matters much, so staying in WS seems reasonable.
>
>
> I'd rather push these in to Axis2 TLP.
>
>
>
>
> XmlSchema... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. Used
> widely, not Axis2 specific, and deserves a little more visibility.
>
>
> I'm 0- on this.
>
>
>
>
> Sandesha2, Rampart, Kandula2, Savan... move to an Axis2 TLP.
> These are
> (reasonably) tightly coupled to Axis2, drive Axis2 in
> interesting ways
> and are in demand by a large number of Axis2 users. Moving
> them to an
> Axis2 TLP would (IMO) allow that PMC to ship a compelling
> bundle and
> build a coherent community.
>
>
> +1
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: Discussion : What should be in Axis2 TLP (Was Re: [VOTE] Axis2
as TLP (Alternate Proposal))
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> It seems no one is interested in the TLP idea anymore.
Hehe :)
>
> We better discuss this now, rather than thinking silently. At the same
> time I don't think these discussion are reasons for people to get
> frustrated. Its just perspectives and being a diverse community we
> should be able to digest other ideas.
Agreed , as long as we treat each individual more responsible manner. As
I always tells , we need to make this a more friendlily mailing list.
Having said that in Apache what importance is "Community" NOT the code.
So we should always give our first priority to the community and then
the code.
>
> Anyway, I think pretty much everyone agrees we should move to a new
> TLP. But the question is what we should move with us. So I think its
> good to start a discussion on this.
Didnt we discuss this a number of time ,I agree we did not come to a
conclusion but we discussed. Anyway let's discuss.
>
> So what do you all think? Shall we move WS-Commons with it or not? I
> think we should, especially because of the convenience of axis2
> developer. And I don't think that will hinder anyone using anything
> within WS-Commons components.
>
Well , I do not mind moving any of the project as TLPs. In fact I have
mentioned a number of times that we also need to move Axiom as TLP. And
make that the Pull parser based XML inforset representation. However
moving Axis2 into TLP and making Axiom a TLP a totally different
discussion. IMO we should not move Axiom into Axis2 (I am -0 on this).
About neethi , I do not think we need to move that with Axis2 , we can
keep that inside WS , same thing would be apply to XML Schema as well.
However I am not still clear about transport. In my view those transport
can not work without Axis2. So those should be sub project of Axis2.
Even I am +0 on that too.
> What do you all think? Let's have a friendly discussion.
Hehe +1
Deepal
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Eran Chinthaka
> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:06 AM, David Illsley
> <davidillsley@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> OK, I haven't discussd my thinking yet, so here goes.
>
> IMO the WS project is a disparate collection of stuff. This
> leads to:
> a. A lack of a coherent community
>
>
> I agree with this point. Thats why I agreed to the idea of TLP, at
> last (thanks to Ajith and Ruchith ;) )
>
>
>
> b. A tough job for users to get what they want from the WS project
>
>
> I'm not sure what you meant here. But what is so difficult for
> users? May be I'm wrong as I am wearing Axis2-dev hat and not the
> user hat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think that Axis2 and related technologies would be better
> served as
> a TLP which gathers just related technologies together. This
> should
> encourage a coherent community within the TLP, and making a
> TLP level
> decision to, for example, ship an Axis2 RSP bundle with
> Rampart and
> Sandesha pre-configured - the lack of whih is something I'm
> sure if
> hurting Axis2 at the moment,
>
>
> Totally agree.
>
>
>
>
> Given those thoughts, in my perfect world, I'd split
> Axis2/Java and
> Axis2/C into different TLPs as they do have pretty different
> communities (user and dev).
>
> As to which Java based projects I'd ship to Axis2/Java and
> which I'd
> leave in WS...
>
> Axiom... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. It
> has a lot
> to give, but is currently very effectively hidden from users.
> I think
> this would continue to be the case if it were moved under an Axis2
> TLP.
>
>
> It has lot to give, agree. But by moving that in to Axis2, will
> that be hidden more? With Google, it is hard to hide something.
> Search for "XML stax object model", "XML object model", etc. You
> will see Axiom in first 5 links. If you use some other keywords,
> if Axiom is not coming up, then we need to improve our Axiom page
> with SEO techniques, which I think is a different question.
>
> So I don't think there is a visibility problem. Its all about, how
> famous and effective it is than the URL or the location.
>
>
>
> Neethi... last time I looked, it was only really useful when
> used with
> Axis2, so I'd move that to an Axis2 TLP
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
> WS-Commons Transports... These are genuinely used by multiple
> TLPs and
> there is unlikely to be much 'user' interest in this project
> because
> we'll presumably ship them as part of Axis2 and Synapse.
> Therfore I
> don't think it matters much, so staying in WS seems reasonable.
>
>
> I'd rather push these in to Axis2 TLP.
>
>
>
>
> XmlSchema... leave in WS and promote to a proper sub project. Used
> widely, not Axis2 specific, and deserves a little more visibility.
>
>
> I'm 0- on this.
>
>
>
>
> Sandesha2, Rampart, Kandula2, Savan... move to an Axis2 TLP.
> These are
> (reasonably) tightly coupled to Axis2, drive Axis2 in
> interesting ways
> and are in demand by a large number of Axis2 users. Moving
> them to an
> Axis2 TLP would (IMO) allow that PMC to ship a compelling
> bundle and
> build a coherent community.
>
>
> +1
>
> Thanks,
> Chinthaka
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org