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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Lobanov Igor <i....@cft.ru> on 2007/05/23 12:56:18 UTC
What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Dear community,
Could you tell me what are benefits of using "pure HTML" approach to
creating templates for your pages? As I understand it is one of primary
selling points of Tapestry framework. However I failed to find any
justification for this approach other that you can give it to your HTML
designer even after your placed some components on it. For me this
argument is relevan only for simple applications, because:
1) decent application uses tons of both custom and standard components,
which make bare page template look very different compared to what it
will look like when all components are rendered
2) many templates contain sections which are mutually exclusive when
application page is rendered, but will be simultaneously visible on a
bare template (consider "No data to display" warning instead of grid
control)
Considering all of these, decision to use "pure HTML" templates looks
like completely arbitrary and the matter of taste of Mr. Howard Lewis
Ship. However I suppose I missed an important point here, so I would be
very grateful if somebody shed light on this issue for me.
Thanks in advance!
--
Igor Lobanov
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Re: What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Posted by Christian Haselbach <ch...@tngtech.com>.
Quoting Igor Lobanov <i....@cft.ru>:
> Anyway, Jonathan's suggestion about ease of CSS use is the most appealing to
> me, because nowadays CSS finally became the most powerful facility for
> determining style and position of elements on a page.
I've got to say that this is not so important to me, because I
normally do my CSS editing in Firebug.
And it is also possible to edit CSS in a life system.
Regards,
Christian
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Re: What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Posted by Igor Lobanov <i....@cft.ru>.
Christian Haselbach wrote:
>
> First of all, why wouldn't you want to use pure HTML templates?
> What are the benefits of using something else or even something new?
>
> Even though I (almost) never look at the templates using a special html
> editor or browser, there are two advantages:
> 1) If your editor knows about html (and most editors do), it will
> support you correctly.
> 2) You do not need to learn yet another thing.
>
> And you can also use this mechanism to generate other doctypes which are
> similar enough to html.
>
Well, support from the html-aware editor is interesting idea, however you
also get it if templating language without angle brackets is used - consider
Velocity or FreeMaker. The same goes for other doctypes.
Moreover I do need to learn another thing, because complex "multipart"
components like contrib:Table when shoehorned into jwcid attributes do look,
well, counterintuitive.
Anyway, Jonathan's suggestion about ease of CSS use is the most appealing to
me, because nowadays CSS finally became the most powerful facility for
determining style and position of elements on a page.
--
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Re: What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Posted by Christian Haselbach <ch...@tngtech.com>.
Quoting Lobanov Igor <i....@cft.ru>:
> Considering all of these, decision to use "pure HTML" templates looks
> like completely arbitrary and the matter of taste of Mr. Howard Lewis
> Ship. However I suppose I missed an important point here, so I would be
> very grateful if somebody shed light on this issue for me.
First of all, why wouldn't you want to use pure HTML templates?
What are the benefits of using something else or even something new?
Even though I (almost) never look at the templates using a special html
editor or browser, there are two advantages:
1) If your editor knows about html (and most editors do), it will
support you correctly.
2) You do not need to learn yet another thing.
And you can also use this mechanism to generate other doctypes which are
similar enough to html.
Regards,
Christian
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Re: What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Posted by Nick Westgate <ni...@key-planning.co.jp>.
Hi Igor.
In addition to the $remove$ suggestion from Jonathan, I'd like to point
out that conversion from your designer's html to a Tapestry template is
much simplified when compared to JSP etc. In many cases, but not all,
the result (including components) are still editable by the designer.
However, this point is not a good reason to choose or dismiss Tapestry,
nor is it Tapestry's "primary selling point".
Cheers,
Nick.
Lobanov Igor wrote:
> Dear community,
>
> Could you tell me what are benefits of using "pure HTML" approach to
> creating templates for your pages? As I understand it is one of primary
> selling points of Tapestry framework. However I failed to find any
> justification for this approach other that you can give it to your HTML
> designer even after your placed some components on it. For me this
> argument is relevan only for simple applications, because:
> 1) decent application uses tons of both custom and standard components,
> which make bare page template look very different compared to what it
> will look like when all components are rendered
> 2) many templates contain sections which are mutually exclusive when
> application page is rendered, but will be simultaneously visible on a
> bare template (consider "No data to display" warning instead of grid
> control)
>
> Considering all of these, decision to use "pure HTML" templates looks
> like completely arbitrary and the matter of taste of Mr. Howard Lewis
> Ship. However I suppose I missed an important point here, so I would be
> very grateful if somebody shed light on this issue for me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --
> Igor Lobanov
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: What are benefits of pure HTML templates?
Posted by Jonathan O'Connor <jo...@xcom.de>.
Igor,
pure HTML makes it so much easier to write the CSS. Just open the html file
in a browser, edit the file and css in your IDE, save, and then hit refresh
in the browser. You see the change instantly. Maybe Tap5 will allow this in
a running system, and that's great too.
Another reason: When I am designing a page and its look, I often refer to
HTML and CSS books. I don't want to have to translate their HTML tags into
some funny tapestry version before I use the examples.
Finally, to get around your problems with complex pages, Tapestry has/had
(my experience is only with Tap3) a $Remove$ component. So, you could add
HTML tags from a component, and see it immediately in the browser. Adding
CSS on top of that is easy. This is one of the reasons I hate the JSF
stuff, because the "HTML" looks so ugly. I do hope Tap5 doesn't go down the
same root.
Ciao,
Jonathan O'Connor
XCOM Dublin
"Lobanov Igor"
<i.lobanov@cft.ru
> To
<us...@tapestry.apache.org>
23/05/2007 11:56 cc
Subject
Please respond to What are benefits of pure HTML
"Tapestry users" templates?
<users@tapestry.a
pache.org>
Dear community,
Could you tell me what are benefits of using "pure HTML" approach to
creating templates for your pages? As I understand it is one of primary
selling points of Tapestry framework. However I failed to find any
justification for this approach other that you can give it to your HTML
designer even after your placed some components on it. For me this
argument is relevan only for simple applications, because:
1) decent application uses tons of both custom and standard components,
which make bare page template look very different compared to what it
will look like when all components are rendered
2) many templates contain sections which are mutually exclusive when
application page is rendered, but will be simultaneously visible on a
bare template (consider "No data to display" warning instead of grid
control)
Considering all of these, decision to use "pure HTML" templates looks
like completely arbitrary and the matter of taste of Mr. Howard Lewis
Ship. However I suppose I missed an important point here, so I would be
very grateful if somebody shed light on this issue for me.
Thanks in advance!
--
Igor Lobanov
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