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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> on 2014/01/02 18:32:31 UTC
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
On 12/25/2013 07:16 AM, Gabriela Gibson wrote:
> Hi Rich,
>
> You asked for ideas for keynotes.
>
> I'm not sure this idea is quite keynote speech material, but I looked
> your links up and thought that
> you're the right person to send this letter to.
>
> At the next Apache Con, I'd love to hear a talk that introduces a
> newly revamped Apache Labs community and invites everyone to come and
> take part.
Not sure if this is keynote material, but it's certainly an interesting
topic.
If we were to do this as a keynote, who do you imagine would give the talk?
>
> Now, I know I'm an ASF newbie and don't know much about Apache (yet),
> but I'd like to say that I believe that a thriving Apache Labs
> community is very important.
>
> Apache Labs should be the grand front portal for ASF where new ideas,
> projects and new committers are won.
>
> True, ASF is big and has much kudos, but we still have to compete, and
> currently GitHub and BitBucket is eating our lunch!
I've never really thought of them as competition. I tend to think that
innovation is good wherever it happens. Do you know if anyone is
pitching Labs as a competitor to those guys?
>
> With over 4000 ASF committers, Apache Labs should be a noisy, lively
> place, and the first choice and port of call for people with ideas and
> a place where things move fast and people can meet. Currently, I
> think Labs is a little too formal to facilitate that and needs some
> changes to become what it could be.
>
> Could I entice you to read my 'lemonade stand' post?
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/labs-labs/201312.mbox/%3CCALfVaASsPLfYXYv4jsb%2BSRWEq1awURGKDkbTYbO3KRF0uo%2BMmw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
I've read it. I've always seen labs as a sandbox where committers could
fiddle with a new idea until it became something "real." I must admit
that I haven't followed it at all, and wasn't really aware of the
structure around getting something into Labs. So, maybe this topic is
indeed something that could be of general interest.
> I think that this idea probably just needs a little bit more cowbell
> and a few more enthusiastic and experienced champions to start the party.
>
> Of course I don't know if it can be (or should be) done, but as
> always, I figure the worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't :-)
>
> Gabriela (gbg@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>)
>
> --
> Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
On 1/6/14 9:39 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> On 01/06/2014 08:52 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>
>> On 01/06/2014 07:11 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I think it would be cool to invite Jim Zemlin or Mike Milinkovich
>>> to do a Keynote for ApacheCon. :)
>>
>> With LF producing the conference, Jim would be easy to contact.
>>
>> Do you think we have anything to learn from other software foundations? ;-)
>> Maybe RMS would be a good keynote too. Or we could get the three of them on a
>> panel!
>
> Joking aside, though, a talk from Eclipse on what they do differently and why
> could be eye opening.
>
At "All Things Open" there was a good session about Foundations, with Mike
Milinkovich talking from his experience Eclipse Foundation. No recording but
info at http://www.atoschedule.com/events/foundations-2-0 May be a useful entry
point if you want to pursue or encourage such a talk at ApacheCon.
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
<><
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 01/06/2014 08:52 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> On 01/06/2014 07:11 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I think it would be cool to invite Jim Zemlin or Mike Milinkovich
>> to do a Keynote for ApacheCon. :)
>
> With LF producing the conference, Jim would be easy to contact.
>
> Do you think we have anything to learn from other software
> foundations? ;-) Maybe RMS would be a good keynote too. Or we could
> get the three of them on a panel!
Joking aside, though, a talk from Eclipse on what they do differently
and why could be eye opening.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 01/06/2014 07:11 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> I think it would be cool to invite Jim Zemlin or Mike Milinkovich
> to do a Keynote for ApacheCon. :)
With LF producing the conference, Jim would be easy to contact.
Do you think we have anything to learn from other software foundations?
;-) Maybe RMS would be a good keynote too. Or we could get the three of
them on a panel!
--Rich
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 01/06/2014 07:19 AM, Issac Goldstand wrote:
> On that note, I kinda think a cool Keynote idea could be to bring Mitch
> Resnick from MIT's Scratch project http://scratch.mit.edu/
Do you know him personally? (Or do any of us here know him?) That would
indeed be very cool. I'm a big fan of the Scratch project.
>
>
>
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Issac Goldstand <ma...@beamartyr.net>.
On that note, I kinda think a cool Keynote idea could be to bring Mitch
Resnick from MIT's Scratch project http://scratch.mit.edu/
On 06/01/2014 14:11, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> I think it would be cool to invite Jim Zemlin or Mike Milinkovich
> to do a Keynote for ApacheCon. :)
>
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
I think it would be cool to invite Jim Zemlin or Mike Milinkovich
to do a Keynote for ApacheCon. :)
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Gabriela Gibson <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/25/2013 07:16 AM, Gabriela Gibson wrote:
>
> Hi
> Rich,
>
>
> You asked for ideas for
> keynotes.
>
> I'm not sure this idea is quite keynote speech material, but I looked your
> links up and thought that
> you're the right person to send this letter to.
>
> At the next Apache Con, I'd love to hear a talk that introduces a newly
> revamped Apache Labs community and invites everyone to come and take part.
>
>
> Not sure if this is keynote material, but it's certainly an interesting
> topic.
>
> If we were to do this as a keynote, who do you imagine would give the talk?
>
> I think Jan had a great idea when he suggested Tim as the speaker --- and
it would give Labs the top-notch promotion it deserves (and needs).
>
>
> Now, I know I'm an ASF newbie and don't know much about Apache (yet), but
> I'd like to say that I believe that a thriving Apache Labs community is
> very important.
>
> Apache Labs should be the grand front portal for ASF where new ideas,
> projects and new committers are won.
>
> True, ASF is big and has much kudos, but we still have to compete, and
> currently GitHub and BitBucket is eating our lunch!
>
>
> I've never really thought of them as competition. I tend to think that
> innovation is good wherever it happens. Do you know if anyone is pitching
> Labs as a competitor to those guys?
>
>
GitHub et al. are not strictly competition as such, but since ASF is the
biggest Open Source provider with ~4000 members, should we not provide an
alternative for our members, if only to allow projects to grow in the
Apache way, right from their inception?
Apache Labs could be a great 'idea & people magnet' with many benefits:
* starting a community with people who already know the Apache way has a
bigger chance of success and makes the transition to Incubator (if it
happens) much smoother.
* potential new committers will find new projects to be an easier starting
point and could be recruited to ongoing Apache projects
* because there is always 'something new', people would be tempted to visit
us more often and 'cross fertilization' would happen naturally, simply due
to the ensuing diversity of talent.
* existing projects would find it easier to collaborate on projects useful
to both of them in a neutral space and attract outside members.
I can only see upsides and no downsides and it would be nice to hear from
the Apache "kernel"/founders/members where they see the direction and
intention of a project like Apache Labs.
Regards,
Gabriela
--
Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by Gabriela Gibson <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/25/2013 07:16 AM, Gabriela Gibson wrote:
>
> Hi
> Rich,
>
>
> You asked for ideas for
> keynotes.
>
> I'm not sure this idea is quite keynote speech material, but I looked your
> links up and thought that
> you're the right person to send this letter to.
>
> At the next Apache Con, I'd love to hear a talk that introduces a newly
> revamped Apache Labs community and invites everyone to come and take part.
>
>
> Not sure if this is keynote material, but it's certainly an interesting
> topic.
>
> If we were to do this as a keynote, who do you imagine would give the talk?
>
> I think Jan had a great idea when he suggested Tim as the speaker --- and
it would give Labs the top-notch promotion it deserves (and needs).
>
>
> Now, I know I'm an ASF newbie and don't know much about Apache (yet), but
> I'd like to say that I believe that a thriving Apache Labs community is
> very important.
>
> Apache Labs should be the grand front portal for ASF where new ideas,
> projects and new committers are won.
>
> True, ASF is big and has much kudos, but we still have to compete, and
> currently GitHub and BitBucket is eating our lunch!
>
>
> I've never really thought of them as competition. I tend to think that
> innovation is good wherever it happens. Do you know if anyone is pitching
> Labs as a competitor to those guys?
>
>
GitHub et al. are not strictly competition as such, but since ASF is the
biggest Open Source provider with ~4000 members, should we not provide an
alternative for our members, if only to allow projects to grow in the
Apache way, right from their inception?
Apache Labs could be a great 'idea & people magnet' with many benefits:
* starting a community with people who already know the Apache way has a
bigger chance of success and makes the transition to Incubator (if it
happens) much smoother.
* potential new committers will find new projects to be an easier starting
point and could be recruited to ongoing Apache projects
* because there is always 'something new', people would be tempted to visit
us more often and 'cross fertilization' would happen naturally, simply due
to the ensuing diversity of talent.
* existing projects would find it easier to collaborate on projects useful
to both of them in a neutral space and attract outside members.
I can only see upsides and no downsides and it would be nice to hear from
the Apache "kernel"/founders/members where they see the direction and
intention of a project like Apache Labs.
Regards,
Gabriela
--
Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/
Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 2 January 2014 18:32, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/25/2013 07:16 AM, Gabriela Gibson wrote:
>
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> You asked for ideas for keynotes.
>>
>> I'm not sure this idea is quite keynote speech material, but I looked
>> your links up and thought that
>> you're the right person to send this letter to.
>>
>> At the next Apache Con, I'd love to hear a talk that introduces a newly
>> revamped Apache Labs community and invites everyone to come and take part.
>>
>
> Not sure if this is keynote material, but it's certainly an interesting
> topic.
>
I agree it is not really keynote material, but it highlight one of our
weaknesses. Labs should be our frontier (or one of), the place where our
committers can play with tomorrows httpd. Sadly enough the truth of a lot
darker.
> If we were to do this as a keynote, who do you imagine would give the talk?
>
I personally would like to see someone like tim, talk about "where do we go
from here" to give the project a vision.
>
>
>> Now, I know I'm an ASF newbie and don't know much about Apache (yet), but
>> I'd like to say that I believe that a thriving Apache Labs community is
>> very important.
>>
>> Apache Labs should be the grand front portal for ASF where new ideas,
>> projects and new committers are won.
>>
>> True, ASF is big and has much kudos, but we still have to compete, and
>> currently GitHub and BitBucket is eating our lunch!
>>
>
> I've never really thought of them as competition. I tend to think that
> innovation is good wherever it happens. Do you know if anyone is pitching
> Labs as a competitor to those guys?
>
"competition" is really not a good term, but at the same time its not good
to sit back in the couch and state "we only accept mature project" which is
what we do with incubator. We need LABS, and our committers want a place to
play with their ideas.
>
>> With over 4000 ASF committers, Apache Labs should be a noisy, lively
>> place, and the first choice and port of call for people with ideas and a
>> place where things move fast and people can meet. Currently, I think Labs
>> is a little too formal to facilitate that and needs some changes to become
>> what it could be.
>>
>> Could I entice you to read my 'lemonade stand' post?
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/labs-labs/201312.
>> mbox/%3CCALfVaASsPLfYXYv4jsb%2BSRWEq1awURGKDkbTYbO3KRF0uo%
>> 2BMmw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>>
> I've read it. I've always seen labs as a sandbox where committers could
> fiddle with a new idea until it became something "real." I must admit that
> I haven't followed it at all, and wasn't really aware of the structure
> around getting something into Labs. So, maybe this topic is indeed
> something that could be of general interest.
>
Fact is that labs has a bylaw that to be very polite not follow our ASF
tradition. in order to get a lab, you need lazy consensus (which is ok) AND
at least 3 pmc votes.
I have now tried for a couple of weeks to get consensus on changing that
law (after a hint from tim), but now nearly 3 weeks later I have received
no +1, no -1, and in reallity nothing. To me it seems that project needs a
shake up.
The idea of LABS if swell, but why make it so complicated for committers
(and I only talk about committers here), they should present a proposal,
wait 3 days, and if no -1 is received go ahead. With gitHub I dont even
have to wait 3 days !!
I care for LABS, but it seems hard to get the PMC circle moving, so I think
apachecon would be the right forum to discuss how to get something like
LABS functional.
Please understand me correctly I believe the PMCs and Committers do a lot
of good for ASF, but maybe they have just forgotten LABS.
just my opinion, I would love to give a presentaion, but I feel it should
be someone with more merit than me.
rgds
jan I.
>
> I think that this idea probably just needs a little bit more cowbell and
>> a few more enthusiastic and experienced champions to start the party.
>>
>> Of course I don't know if it can be (or should be) done, but as always, I
>> figure the worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't :-)
>>
>> Gabriela (gbg@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>)
>>
>> --
>> Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/
>>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen
> rbowen@rcbowen.com
> http://rcbowen.com/
>
>