Amateurs and professionals

[Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>]

Hi Henri,

 

Please don't be insulted because I categorized your and others' hard volunteer work with Apache Legal-JIRA as "amateur". I appreciated your effort, even though your JIRA actions spewed into my Inbox all last Sunday and Monday when I was concentrating on other things, such as eliminating the very need for most of those JIRAs in the first place. :-)  

 

Of all the non-lawyers I talk to here, you are the most knowledgeable and friendly that I've met so far. I always welcome your advice and counsel.

 

I'm an amateur too. I used to teach computer programming at Stanford, but since I changed careers more than 20 years ago I'm a rank amateur at that. Please don't ask me to advise any Apache PMC on any technical decisions. 

 

I love mathematics and physics, but please don't ask me to actually calculate Cristoffel symbols with any accuracy. [1] 

 

When I briefly joined the Apache board, at our private off-site I was asked to serve as Apache treasurer. I told them I'd done that in small non-profits before but was too amateur to take on financial responsibilities here with a million dollar budget mostly spent on computer infrastructure. Another board amateur was named Treasurer, and a board amateur was made responsible for Apache Legal Affairs. 

 

We have a long-time bad habit of assigning important financial and legal affairs to amateurs here. Apache is too big and our software too valuable for that now. 

 

But Henri and I already have jobs, so we're not applying for those tasks.

 

I've said this here before to little avail, but I am still here trying to influence human behavior. 

 

No insult intended!

 

/Larry

"If this were legal advice it would have been accompanied by a bill."

 

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffel_symbols 

 

 

From: Henri Yandell [mailto:bayard@apache.org] 
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 4:44 PM
To: ASF Legal Discuss; Lawrence Rosen
Subject: Re: Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy

 


Some thoughts inline (and a pouty note that you didn't reply to my last reply :) ). 

[<LER>] <Snip from here on although answers to Henri Yandell's other questions in that email are needed from other SPDX experts here.>

RE: Amateurs and professionals

[Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>]

Henri Yandell wrote:

> I was assuming that OSI license-discuss isn't restricted to lawyers specializing in OSS - i.e. the two pieces of your text there didn't seem to sync.

 

That list isn't restricted to lawyers at all. But at least there, unlike most of the time here and certainly for Apache Legal-JIRAs, occasionally attorneys speak up. And they are focused on licenses rather than all the technical stuff that Apache folks concentrate on.

 

I have much more engaging and "fun" debates sometimes on that list because many of the people there actually know a lot about open source licensing!

 

/Larry

 

 

From: Henri Yandell [mailto:bayard@apache.org] 
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:01 PM
To: Lawrence Rosen
Cc: ASF Legal Discuss
Subject: Re: Amateurs and professionals

 

S'okay, no insult was imaged :) - was but a question for clarification so I could understand who you were saying should be answering the questions. I was assuming that OSI license-discuss isn't restricted to lawyers specializing in OSS - i.e. the two pieces of your text there didn't seem to sync. 

Hen

Re: Amateurs and professionals

[Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>]

S'okay, no insult was imaged :) - was but a question for clarification so I
could understand who you were saying should be answering the questions. I
was assuming that OSI license-discuss isn't restricted to lawyers
specializing in OSS - i.e. the two pieces of your text there didn't seem to
sync.

Hen

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com> wrote:

> Hi Henri,
>
>
>
> Please don't be insulted because I categorized your and others' hard
> volunteer work with Apache Legal-JIRA as "amateur". I appreciated your
> effort, even though your JIRA actions spewed into my Inbox all last Sunday
> and Monday when I was concentrating on other things, such as eliminating
> the very need for most of those JIRAs in the first place. :-)
>
>
>
> Of all the non-lawyers I talk to here, you are the most knowledgeable and
> friendly that I've met so far. I always welcome your advice and counsel.
>
>
>
> I'm an amateur too. I used to teach computer programming at Stanford, but
> since I changed careers more than 20 years ago I'm a rank amateur at that.
> Please don't ask me to advise any Apache PMC on any technical decisions.
>
>
>
> I love mathematics and physics, but please don't ask me to actually
> calculate Cristoffel symbols with any accuracy. [1]
>
>
>
> When I briefly joined the Apache board, at our private off-site I was
> asked to serve as Apache treasurer. I told them I'd done that in small
> non-profits before but was too amateur to take on financial
> responsibilities here with a million dollar budget mostly spent on computer
> infrastructure. Another board amateur was named Treasurer, and a board
> amateur was made responsible for Apache Legal Affairs.
>
>
>
> We have a long-time bad habit of assigning important financial and legal
> affairs to amateurs here. Apache is too big and our software too valuable
> for that now.
>
>
>
> But Henri and I already have jobs, so we're not applying for those tasks.
>
>
>
> I've said this here before to little avail, but I am still here trying to
> influence human behavior.
>
>
>
> No insult intended!
>
>
>
> /Larry
>
> "If this were legal advice it would have been accompanied by a bill."
>
>
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffel_symbols
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Henri Yandell [mailto:bayard@apache.org]
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2015 4:44 PM
> *To:* ASF Legal Discuss; Lawrence Rosen
> *Subject:* Re: Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy
>
>
>
>
> Some thoughts inline (and a pouty note that you didn't reply to my last
> reply :) ).
>
> *[<LER>] *<Snip from here on although answers to Henri Yandell's other
> questions in that email are needed from other SPDX experts here.>
>