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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> on 2015/06/18 11:21:40 UTC
Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Answers inline, please be aware IANAL so these answers are no substitute
for getting advice from a real lawyer
On 17/06/2015 17:12, "封仲淹(纪君祥)" <zh...@alibaba-inc.com> wrote:
>Hi
>
>
>
>May I ask several question about donating projects to Apache?
>
>Any help are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>
>As we all know, the Apache is the most important open source community,
>there are so many great projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop, Hbase, Zookeeper
>etc. It is proud of joining these great projects.
>
>We also want to donate some of our good open source projects to ASF, but
>we
>are a litter worry about the legal issue. I don’t know what’s the impact
>of intelligent Properties after donation, Could anyone give me some
>guideline or several documents ? Thanks
Firstly please note that the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not
accept arbitrary donations, all incoming projects need to be go through
the Incubation Process:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html
The first stage of which is starting a discussion on the
general@incubator.apache.org list to discuss your proposed donations.
A key criteria that the Incubator uses is that there must be a willingness
to build a open community around a project. If your intent is merely to
open source a project or leverage the Apache brand with your company
retaining control then your project is unlikely to be accepted by the ASF
and you may be better simply posting it on GitHub and having the
discussion with the Incubator Community will help you figure out what the
best path is for your projects.
>
>
>
>(1) Trademark
>
>Will the project trademark belong to ASF or still be our company’s after
>donation? Can we still use the old project trademark.
Trademarks would be transferred to ASF as part of the donation and become
ASF trademarks, your company can use Apache trademarks in certain ways per
the ASF trademarks policy:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/
If you are currently marketing these products commercially then this would
likely require some changes to how you market and brand your products.
>
>
>
>
>(2) Patent
>
>We have own several patent on these open source projects, if we donate
>these
>project, what’s the patent going on. Does we give up all patent claim?
No you don't give up the claims BUT per Clause 3. Grant of Patent License
in the Apache License 2.0 contributors grant a license to all downstream
users of the project to any applicable patents:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#patent
>
>
>
>(3) Agreement
>
>Which agreements should we sign? Right now, we need sign
><http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt> Corporate CLA and
><http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt> Software Grant
>Agreement
>(SGA). Is there any other agreement should we sign?
To donate a project then you would have to sign the SGA
The Corporate CLA is an optional document typically used when you employ
people who contribute to Apache projects and your companies IP policies
would usually assign IP in any work employees do to the company
>
>
>
>(4) Who own the source code?
>
>Does the code belong to ASF or still be our company?
>
>
The ASF owns the copyright for the collective work
Individual contributors retain copyright to their individual contributions
(note that contributions are not necessarily just code), through Clause 2
Grant of Copyright License of the Apache License 2.0 the contributors
grant a copyright license to all downstream users of the code:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#copyright
Hope this helps,
Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Longda
>
>
>
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Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Stefan Reich
<st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but this is all too complicated. You're not a lawyer, but you let
> software development be controlled by lawyers? It leads to stalemate.
I don't know what gave you that impression, but ASF prides itself, amon
other things, on robust IP hygiene. And this is a *good* thing. This is what
allows software developed at ASF be a reliable, trustworthy bedrock for
enterprise products powering multibillion dollar industries.
Thanks,
Roman.
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RE: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by Christian Brenninkmeijer <ch...@manchester.ac.uk>.
Without knowing the specific details here but just reading the thread I wonder if code donation is really the best way to get the desired outcome.
Would it not be better for the company to release the code with an Apache compatible open source license that allows the Apache project to fully use the code while still leaving it a within the company.
Christian
________________________________________
From: Bertrand Delacretaz [bdelacretaz@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 8:52 AM
To: Incubator General
Subject: Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Stefan Reich
<st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but this is all too complicated...
So what do you suggest exactly?
> ...It leads to stalemate.
With more than 200 active projects, including some world-changing
ones, I don't think you can consider the ASF to be in a stalemate
state ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Stefan Reich
<st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but this is all too complicated...
So what do you suggest exactly?
> ...It leads to stalemate.
With more than 200 active projects, including some world-changing
ones, I don't think you can consider the ASF to be in a stalemate
state ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by toki <to...@gmail.com>.
On 06/18/2015 04:34 PM, Stefan Reich wrote:
> You're not a lawyer, but you let software development be controlled by lawyers?
Failing to follow the advice of lawyers can have extremely expensive,
and even more unpleasant consequences.
The procedures setup by the Apache Software Foundation are to prevent:
* Claims of copyright infringement;
* Claims of trademark infringement;
* Claims of service mark infringement;
* Claims of patent infringement;
The cost of successfully defending a patent infringement lawsuit is ten
million dollars. The cost of successfully defending copyright,
trademark, and service mark lawsuits is roughly five million dollars.
Whilst the procedures and steps setup by ASF won't prevent lawsuits,
they do:
* establish the providence of each line of code in each program;
* the providence under which the ASF project can use a service mark, or
trademark;
* the legal right of a project to utilize a specific something that has
been patented;
If a legal dispute about something erupts, ASF's legal counsel can go to
the source, showing the chain of evidence supporting the legal right of
the project, to use whatever is being used, that the other party is
claiming they can not use.
Whilst that doesn't help against parties that are unreasonable, it does
mean that the odds of ASF prevailing in a lawsuit are extremely high.
Nonetheless, even prevailing means a loss.
There are few, if any steps that can be taken, to minimize the risk of
an unreasonable party filing a frivolous lawsuit that is extremely
expensive to fight.
jonathon
* English - detected
* English
* English
<javascript:void(0);> <#>
Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by Stefan Reich <st...@googlemail.com>.
Sorry, but this is all too complicated. You're not a lawyer, but you let
software development be controlled by lawyers? It leads to stalemate.
Stefan
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> Answers inline, please be aware IANAL so these answers are no substitute
> for getting advice from a real lawyer
>
> On 17/06/2015 17:12, "封仲淹(纪君祥)" <zh...@alibaba-inc.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi
> >
> >
> >
> >May I ask several question about donating projects to Apache?
> >
> >Any help are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >As we all know, the Apache is the most important open source community,
> >there are so many great projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop, Hbase, Zookeeper
> >etc. It is proud of joining these great projects.
> >
> >We also want to donate some of our good open source projects to ASF, but
> >we
> >are a litter worry about the legal issue. I don’t know what’s the impact
> >of intelligent Properties after donation, Could anyone give me some
> >guideline or several documents ? Thanks
>
> Firstly please note that the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not
> accept arbitrary donations, all incoming projects need to be go through
> the Incubation Process:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html
>
> The first stage of which is starting a discussion on the
> general@incubator.apache.org list to discuss your proposed donations.
>
> A key criteria that the Incubator uses is that there must be a willingness
> to build a open community around a project. If your intent is merely to
> open source a project or leverage the Apache brand with your company
> retaining control then your project is unlikely to be accepted by the ASF
> and you may be better simply posting it on GitHub and having the
> discussion with the Incubator Community will help you figure out what the
> best path is for your projects.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >(1) Trademark
> >
> >Will the project trademark belong to ASF or still be our company’s after
> >donation? Can we still use the old project trademark.
>
> Trademarks would be transferred to ASF as part of the donation and become
> ASF trademarks, your company can use Apache trademarks in certain ways per
> the ASF trademarks policy:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/
>
> If you are currently marketing these products commercially then this would
> likely require some changes to how you market and brand your products.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >(2) Patent
> >
> >We have own several patent on these open source projects, if we donate
> >these
> >project, what’s the patent going on. Does we give up all patent claim?
>
> No you don't give up the claims BUT per Clause 3. Grant of Patent License
> in the Apache License 2.0 contributors grant a license to all downstream
> users of the project to any applicable patents:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#patent
>
> >
> >
> >
> >(3) Agreement
> >
> >Which agreements should we sign? Right now, we need sign
> ><http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt> Corporate CLA and
> ><http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt> Software Grant
> >Agreement
> >(SGA). Is there any other agreement should we sign?
>
> To donate a project then you would have to sign the SGA
>
> The Corporate CLA is an optional document typically used when you employ
> people who contribute to Apache projects and your companies IP policies
> would usually assign IP in any work employees do to the company
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >(4) Who own the source code?
> >
> >Does the code belong to ASF or still be our company?
> >
> >
>
> The ASF owns the copyright for the collective work
>
> Individual contributors retain copyright to their individual contributions
> (note that contributions are not necessarily just code), through Clause 2
> Grant of Copyright License of the Apache License 2.0 the contributors
> grant a copyright license to all downstream users of the code:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#copyright
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rob
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Longda
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
Hi Longda,
I believe your questions are in part related to STORM-718 [1] (IP Clearance for JStorm contributions).
To add some additional details, if you are donating code to an existing Apache project, you do not go through the incubator to become a top-level Apache process. The IP clearance process [2], however involves both the Incubator and the receiving project (Apache Storm in this case). So code donations to an existing project do not require an Incubator proposal.
One of the first things needed for IP clearance is a signed software grant [3]. That document lists what rights you would be transferring to Apache. You should probably discuss that document with your lawyers to get an understanding of what it means in laymen’s terms.
I’m happy to help with any questions you have about the process, but I am not a lawyer. For any legal advise you’re best off consulting with a lawyer.
-Taylor
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STORM-718
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/
[3] https://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:21 AM, Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> Answers inline, please be aware IANAL so these answers are no substitute
> for getting advice from a real lawyer
>
> On 17/06/2015 17:12, "封仲淹(纪君祥)" <zh...@alibaba-inc.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> May I ask several question about donating projects to Apache?
>>
>> Any help are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> As we all know, the Apache is the most important open source community,
>> there are so many great projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop, Hbase, Zookeeper
>> etc. It is proud of joining these great projects.
>>
>> We also want to donate some of our good open source projects to ASF, but
>> we
>> are a litter worry about the legal issue. I don’t know what’s the impact
>> of intelligent Properties after donation, Could anyone give me some
>> guideline or several documents ? Thanks
>
> Firstly please note that the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not
> accept arbitrary donations, all incoming projects need to be go through
> the Incubation Process:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html
>
> The first stage of which is starting a discussion on the
> general@incubator.apache.org list to discuss your proposed donations.
>
> A key criteria that the Incubator uses is that there must be a willingness
> to build a open community around a project. If your intent is merely to
> open source a project or leverage the Apache brand with your company
> retaining control then your project is unlikely to be accepted by the ASF
> and you may be better simply posting it on GitHub and having the
> discussion with the Incubator Community will help you figure out what the
> best path is for your projects.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Trademark
>>
>> Will the project trademark belong to ASF or still be our company’s after
>> donation? Can we still use the old project trademark.
>
> Trademarks would be transferred to ASF as part of the donation and become
> ASF trademarks, your company can use Apache trademarks in certain ways per
> the ASF trademarks policy:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/
>
> If you are currently marketing these products commercially then this would
> likely require some changes to how you market and brand your products.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) Patent
>>
>> We have own several patent on these open source projects, if we donate
>> these
>> project, what’s the patent going on. Does we give up all patent claim?
>
> No you don't give up the claims BUT per Clause 3. Grant of Patent License
> in the Apache License 2.0 contributors grant a license to all downstream
> users of the project to any applicable patents:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#patent
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (3) Agreement
>>
>> Which agreements should we sign? Right now, we need sign
>> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt> Corporate CLA and
>> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt> Software Grant
>> Agreement
>> (SGA). Is there any other agreement should we sign?
>
> To donate a project then you would have to sign the SGA
>
> The Corporate CLA is an optional document typically used when you employ
> people who contribute to Apache projects and your companies IP policies
> would usually assign IP in any work employees do to the company
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (4) Who own the source code?
>>
>> Does the code belong to ASF or still be our company?
>>
>>
>
> The ASF owns the copyright for the collective work
>
> Individual contributors retain copyright to their individual contributions
> (note that contributions are not necessarily just code), through Clause 2
> Grant of Copyright License of the Apache License 2.0 the contributors
> grant a copyright license to all downstream users of the code:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#copyright
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rob
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Longda
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Serveral legal question about donating project to Apache?
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
Hi Longda,
I believe your questions are in part related to STORM-718 [1] (IP Clearance for JStorm contributions).
To add some additional details, if you are donating code to an existing Apache project, you do not go through the incubator to become a top-level Apache process. The IP clearance process [2], however involves both the Incubator and the receiving project (Apache Storm in this case). So code donations to an existing project do not require an Incubator proposal.
One of the first things needed for IP clearance is a signed software grant [3]. That document lists what rights you would be transferring to Apache. You should probably discuss that document with your lawyers to get an understanding of what it means in laymen’s terms.
I’m happy to help with any questions you have about the process, but I am not a lawyer. For any legal advise you’re best off consulting with a lawyer.
-Taylor
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STORM-718
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/
[3] https://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:21 AM, Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org> wrote:
> Answers inline, please be aware IANAL so these answers are no substitute
> for getting advice from a real lawyer
>
> On 17/06/2015 17:12, "封仲淹(纪君祥)" <zh...@alibaba-inc.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> May I ask several question about donating projects to Apache?
>>
>> Any help are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> As we all know, the Apache is the most important open source community,
>> there are so many great projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop, Hbase, Zookeeper
>> etc. It is proud of joining these great projects.
>>
>> We also want to donate some of our good open source projects to ASF, but
>> we
>> are a litter worry about the legal issue. I don’t know what’s the impact
>> of intelligent Properties after donation, Could anyone give me some
>> guideline or several documents ? Thanks
>
> Firstly please note that the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not
> accept arbitrary donations, all incoming projects need to be go through
> the Incubation Process:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html
>
> The first stage of which is starting a discussion on the
> general@incubator.apache.org list to discuss your proposed donations.
>
> A key criteria that the Incubator uses is that there must be a willingness
> to build a open community around a project. If your intent is merely to
> open source a project or leverage the Apache brand with your company
> retaining control then your project is unlikely to be accepted by the ASF
> and you may be better simply posting it on GitHub and having the
> discussion with the Incubator Community will help you figure out what the
> best path is for your projects.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Trademark
>>
>> Will the project trademark belong to ASF or still be our company’s after
>> donation? Can we still use the old project trademark.
>
> Trademarks would be transferred to ASF as part of the donation and become
> ASF trademarks, your company can use Apache trademarks in certain ways per
> the ASF trademarks policy:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/
>
> If you are currently marketing these products commercially then this would
> likely require some changes to how you market and brand your products.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) Patent
>>
>> We have own several patent on these open source projects, if we donate
>> these
>> project, what’s the patent going on. Does we give up all patent claim?
>
> No you don't give up the claims BUT per Clause 3. Grant of Patent License
> in the Apache License 2.0 contributors grant a license to all downstream
> users of the project to any applicable patents:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#patent
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (3) Agreement
>>
>> Which agreements should we sign? Right now, we need sign
>> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt> Corporate CLA and
>> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt> Software Grant
>> Agreement
>> (SGA). Is there any other agreement should we sign?
>
> To donate a project then you would have to sign the SGA
>
> The Corporate CLA is an optional document typically used when you employ
> people who contribute to Apache projects and your companies IP policies
> would usually assign IP in any work employees do to the company
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> (4) Who own the source code?
>>
>> Does the code belong to ASF or still be our company?
>>
>>
>
> The ASF owns the copyright for the collective work
>
> Individual contributors retain copyright to their individual contributions
> (note that contributions are not necessarily just code), through Clause 2
> Grant of Copyright License of the Apache License 2.0 the contributors
> grant a copyright license to all downstream users of the code:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0#copyright
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rob
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Longda
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org