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Posted to user@ofbiz.apache.org by Andrew Ballantine <ac...@willowbrook.co.uk> on 2007/01/03 16:06:18 UTC
RE: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Daniel,
Thanks for the non-destructive response.
your suggestions
1. Excellent idea for the production install
2. Seriously good idea. I would be willing to have a crack at it with some
support from the community.
3. VMware might be slow unless on state of the art hardware.
Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if you
install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
Type java into google
choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
try Java technology(java.sun.com)
Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct version.
If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must be a
better choice than the other.
OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at the
same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not
just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page for the
correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are vague
and unclear.
I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of languages
so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2 years
ago.
I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made difficult
because I do not have half the information that I need to do something I am
not familiar with.
Kind regards,
Andrew Ballantine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Kunkel [mailto:DanielKunkel@BioWaves.com]
Sent: 02 January 2007 19:51
To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
OFBizmanuals]
Hi
The steps for an OFBiz demo are pretty straight forward, and works
quite
well most of time.
The main stumbling block I ran into was setting up OFBiz for
production.
Granted, I did it before the Production Setup Guide existed, but it was
a truly onerous task with huge gotcha's since I was trying to run it on
a popular virtual private server, a mistake since it caused unique
challenging errors that no one had ever seen.
However, it seems that all that is in the past, and now we have a number
of great opportunties:
1.) What about creating a "Production Patch" with instructions.
People could just go through that with Search and Replace to customize
it for their needs, run it, and be off.
This system seems like it would be pretty easy to create and keep up to
date.
The one gotcha I've seen here is to make sure the user runs the patch
against a certain release to avoid conflicts during the patch.
2.) Would there be a need for a live CD? It could even be possible to
set
one up a complete running OFBiz system with a database, apache, etc.
3.) A VMware image. VMware seems to be taking the server world by
storm,
and virtual OFBiz instance might be really popular.
Does this spark any other ideas?
On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:20 -0700, David E Jones wrote:
> First a couple of general thoughts on this:
>
> 1. we are still working through the process of establishing policies
> and procedures for community supported binary releases, and we
> haven't done a binary release in years (but will hopefully get a
> branch going soon, and a stable version of that branch in a couple of
> months)
>
> 2. my guess as to why this doesn't exist already is that Apache OFBiz
> is server-side software and such installers are not as common for
> this sort of thing (yes, they do of course exist); there are SO SO SO
> many configuration options that an automated install would have to be
> a huge piece of software, or address a simple case, like a demo/test
> install
>
> That said, and to follow up on Chris's reply to this with the install
> steps, the installation of OFBiz is super-easy OOTB, especially for a
> binary build which would look like this:
>
> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE) installed
> 2. download OFBiz binary build, and unzip to a directory
> 3. go into that directory and run the executable jar file
> (ofbiz.jar), or one of the startup scripts
>
> And that's IT, PERIOD. Installing Ant is not necessary because OFBiz
> includes the libraries and a script for that. A build from SVN
> procedure is almost as easy:
>
> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE) installed
> 2. make sure you have an SVN client installed
> 3. with the SVN client, checkout http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/
> ofbiz/trunk in a new directory
> 4. go into that directory run "ant run-install", or in Linux/Unix "./
> ant run-install"
> 5. still in that directory run the executable jar file (ofbiz.jar),
> or one of the startup scripts
>
> If that's too complex for a server side application demo/test
> install, I don't know what to say... or how much more we can really
> do about it. What else would an automated install do? I guess it
> could check the one and only dependency there is: the JDK
> installation. That is where most people run into problems. The best
> way to avoid that: use a Mac. ;)
>
> Seriously though, this world is quite #$%^ed up and there are so many
> different variations in operating systems, versions of Java (OFBiz
> does NOT work with gcj and other such things), and so on that I don't
> know that we can do a lot in this area. Say we chose a version of
> Linux to support: now people have to install THAT version of Linux in
> order to easily use OFBiz... hmmm...
>
> Still, if someone wanted to work on this, I certainly wouldn't
> complain... ;)
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>
> > Walter Vaughan wrote:
> > "As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
> > another,
> > but
> > executing is another thing."
> >
> > Well, you can choose to make facetious remarks if you must, but I
> > consider
> > this very important.
> >
> > If you look back over the user mailing list you will find it
> > littered with
> > requests for help just getting ofbiz up and running. I would bet
> > that a lot
> > of them loose interest fairly quickly and we loose a potential
> > user/contributor. Since no one can evaluate the framework without
> > getting it
> > working, that makes it very important that new users get a really
> > painless
> > and easy automated installation process.
> >
> > About 2 years ago I was evaluating ofbiz and used the Windows
> > install that
> > was available then. It wasn't completely automated or that easy,
> > but I got
> > through it. I tried the same thing in Linux, because the final
> > production
> > system must run on Linux, and got totally bogged down.
> >
> > I know that the history of Open Source has tended not to provide easy
> > installation procedures or documentation, but the trend is
> > changing. You
> > will find that many of the projects that support multiple operating
> > systems
> > have excellent automated installation procedures. OK it needs a bit of
> > effort to set up, but once done it should be easy to maintain and keep
> > working.
> >
> > I deliberately specified ONLY one Linux distribution, Ubuntu 6.06
> > LTS, to
> > simplify the job and chose a distribution with a 5 year support plan.
> >
> > I have to confess that I have looked at other ERP Open Source
> > projects to
> > see if I could find one that was easier to use than ofbiz. I am
> > sorry if
> > this hurts, but it is true. However I keep coming back to ofbiz
> > because of
> > its excellent architecture and true open source community.
> >
> > I think it essential that the new user be at least accorded a decent
> > automated install process to avoid loosing them at the first hurdle. I
> > primarily want to USE the framework to drive my client's business
> > processes
> > and then contribute any patches that I feel are needed to improve the
> > framework. I do not want to spend hours or days fiddling about with
> > all
> > sorts of things just to get the thing working without producing error
> > messages all over the place.
> >
> > We also should remember that newcomers to Open Source are also new
> > to Linux
> > which only adds to the learning curve. Faced with a huge learning
> > curve
> > there is a strong tendency to give up and stick with the trash we
> > have grown
> > to hate e.g. Microsoft.
> >
> > Is it really so difficult to create two automated install
> > procedure? I would
> > like to see a single executable download file which will then do
> > everything
> > that is needed to install a running ofbiz framework. That includes
> > installing the correct versions of any products needed to support the
> > installation e.g. Java Ant Postgres etc
> >
> > I am interested in helping put together such procedures given some
> > help from
> > your good selves.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Andrew Ballantine.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Walter Vaughan [mailto:wvaughan@steelerubber.com]
> > Sent: 02 January 2007 13:30
> > To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
> > OFBiz
> > manuals]
> >
> >
> > Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> >
> >> I second all of that and would like to add a request that each new
> >> release
> >> provides an automated installation procedure on MS Windows and one
> >> flavour
> >> of Linux, say Ubuntu 6.06.
> >
> > As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
> > another, but
> > executing is another thing.
> >
> > Where we have a failure as a community right now it the document we
> > have at
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/GettingAndUsingOFBiz.pdf
> > which probably is an old version, with incorrect links
> > (it points to http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
> > (it points to
> > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/OFBiz+Technical+Production
> > +Setup+Guide
> > which needs a little more hand holding, and as well points to
> > http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
> > (it points to http://www.sequoiaerp.org/ which hasn't been around
> > in 10
> > months).
> >
> > This page is slightly better
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/setup.html
> > but it sill suffers from non-linear thought process
> >
> > As soon as the dust settles on getting us out of the "incubator" I am
> > completely
> > confident we'll have bulletproof installation, startup, and next
> > step guides
> > in
> > place.
> >
> > --
> > Walter
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
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> > 01/01/2007
> > 14:50
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> >
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> > 14:50
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> >
> >
> > *****************************************************************
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Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <ti...@sastau.it>
> Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> > ...
> > Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
> > It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
> > with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if you
> > install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
> >
> > Type java into google
> > choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
> > Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
> > No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
> > try Java technology(java.sun.com)
> > Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
> > Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct version.
> > If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must be a
> > better choice than the other.
> >
> > OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at the
> > same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
> >
> > Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not
> > just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page for the
> > correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
> >
> > Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are vague
> > and unclear.
> >
> > I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of languages
> > so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2 years
> > ago.
> >
> > I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
> > frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made difficult
> > because I do not have half the information that I need to do something I am
> > not familiar with.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Andrew Ballantine.
> >
>
> Start from:
>
> http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp
>
> then click on the "Dowload" button near "JDK 5.0 Update 10"
>
> Jacopo
The problem is that this kind of links tends to be very changeable...
But that's right that Sun is not facilitates the task !
Anyway I tried a Google search with "java sdk" and my second choice was
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html
After that I tried to slighlty change the above link to
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.html
and I come automaitcally to this page
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp
So maybe a way is to recommend to try to use/adapt this link
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html
Jacques
RE: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Andrew Ballantine <ac...@willowbrook.co.uk>.
Jacopo,
Thank you very much.
I will incorporate this into a full and details set of instructions when I
have figured it all out.
Thanks again for responding so quickly.
Kind regards,
Andrew Ballantine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:tiz@sastau.it]
Sent: 03 January 2007 15:15
To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
OFBizmanuals]
Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> ...
> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if
you
> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
>
> Type java into google
> choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
> Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
> No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
> try Java technology(java.sun.com)
> Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
> Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct
version.
> If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must be a
> better choice than the other.
>
> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at
the
> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>
> Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK,
not
> just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page for
the
> correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
>
> Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are vague
> and unclear.
>
> I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of languages
> so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2 years
> ago.
>
> I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
> frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made
difficult
> because I do not have half the information that I need to do something I
am
> not familiar with.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Andrew Ballantine.
>
Start from:
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp
then click on the "Dowload" button near "JDK 5.0 Update 10"
Jacopo
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
*****************************************************************
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*****************************************************************
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Jacopo Cappellato <ti...@sastau.it>.
Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> ...
> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if you
> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
>
> Type java into google
> choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
> Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
> No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
> try Java technology(java.sun.com)
> Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
> Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct version.
> If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must be a
> better choice than the other.
>
> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at the
> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>
> Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not
> just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page for the
> correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
>
> Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are vague
> and unclear.
>
> I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of languages
> so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2 years
> ago.
>
> I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
> frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made difficult
> because I do not have half the information that I need to do something I am
> not familiar with.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Andrew Ballantine.
>
Start from:
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp
then click on the "Dowload" button near "JDK 5.0 Update 10"
Jacopo
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by David E Jones <jo...@undersunconsulting.com>.
Scott,
I'm not quite sure what you mean... are you sure you _ever_ got an
email from Confluence? I don't believe I've ever seen such a thing...
If you have, could you forward it to me and I'll see what it is and
what's up with it?
If it was working a while back something could have been broken as
Confluence was moved to another server last week.
-David
On Jan 3, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Scott Gray wrote:
> As a side note David, I'm no longer receiving change notifications
> from the confluence server, is this something you could look into?
> I think I remember something about a server change?
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Just a quick note as I'm catching up with all of these messages:
>> this is the _perfect_ kind of feedback we need, and thanks for
>> sending it over.
>>
>> It's great because it identifies a specific problem based on a
>> real experience, and it is hopefully something we can fix with
>> documentation (even if Sun doesn't make it easy for us at ALL).
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the non-destructive response.
>>>
>>> your suggestions
>>> 1. Excellent idea for the production install
>>>
>>> 2. Seriously good idea. I would be willing to have a crack at it
>>> with some
>>> support from the community.
>>>
>>> 3. VMware might be slow unless on state of the art hardware.
>>>
>>> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to
>>> install ofbiz.
>>> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
>>> fraught
>>> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's
>>> database. OK if you
>>> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what
>>> happens:
>>>
>>> Type java into google
>>> choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
>>> Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
>>> No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
>>> try Java technology(java.sun.com)
>>> Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
>>> Still not confident that I am at the right location of the
>>> correct version.
>>> If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one
>>> must be a
>>> better choice than the other.
>>>
>>> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing
>>> this at the
>>> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>>>
>>> Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or
>>> 1.5 (JDK, not
>>> just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download
>>> page for the
>>> correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
>>>
>>> Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they
>>> are vague
>>> and unclear.
>>>
>>> I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of
>>> languages
>>> so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was
>>> 2 years
>>> ago.
>>>
>>> I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born
>>> out of
>>> frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made
>>> difficult
>>> because I do not have half the information that I need to do
>>> something I am
>>> not familiar with.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Andrew Ballantine.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Daniel Kunkel [mailto:DanielKunkel@BioWaves.com]
>>> Sent: 02 January 2007 19:51
>>> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
>>> OFBizmanuals]
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The steps for an OFBiz demo are pretty straight forward, and works
>>> quite
>>> well most of time.
>>>
>>> The main stumbling block I ran into was setting up OFBiz for
>>> production.
>>> Granted, I did it before the Production Setup Guide existed, but
>>> it was
>>> a truly onerous task with huge gotcha's since I was trying to run
>>> it on
>>> a popular virtual private server, a mistake since it caused unique
>>> challenging errors that no one had ever seen.
>>>
>>> However, it seems that all that is in the past, and now we have a
>>> number
>>> of great opportunties:
>>>
>>> 1.) What about creating a "Production Patch" with instructions.
>>>
>>> People could just go through that with Search and Replace to
>>> customize
>>> it for their needs, run it, and be off.
>>>
>>> This system seems like it would be pretty easy to create and keep
>>> up to
>>> date.
>>> The one gotcha I've seen here is to make sure the user runs the
>>> patch
>>> against a certain release to avoid conflicts during the patch.
>>>
>>> 2.) Would there be a need for a live CD? It could even be
>>> possible to
>>> set
>>> one up a complete running OFBiz system with a database, apache, etc.
>>>
>>> 3.) A VMware image. VMware seems to be taking the server world by
>>> storm,
>>> and virtual OFBiz instance might be really popular.
>>>
>>> Does this spark any other ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:20 -0700, David E Jones wrote:
>>>> First a couple of general thoughts on this:
>>>>
>>>> 1. we are still working through the process of establishing
>>>> policies
>>>> and procedures for community supported binary releases, and we
>>>> haven't done a binary release in years (but will hopefully get a
>>>> branch going soon, and a stable version of that branch in a
>>>> couple of
>>>> months)
>>>>
>>>> 2. my guess as to why this doesn't exist already is that Apache
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> is server-side software and such installers are not as common for
>>>> this sort of thing (yes, they do of course exist); there are SO
>>>> SO SO
>>>> many configuration options that an automated install would have
>>>> to be
>>>> a huge piece of software, or address a simple case, like a demo/
>>>> test
>>>> install
>>>>
>>>> That said, and to follow up on Chris's reply to this with the
>>>> install
>>>> steps, the installation of OFBiz is super-easy OOTB, especially
>>>> for a
>>>> binary build which would look like this:
>>>>
>>>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE)
>>>> installed
>>>> 2. download OFBiz binary build, and unzip to a directory
>>>> 3. go into that directory and run the executable jar file
>>>> (ofbiz.jar), or one of the startup scripts
>>>>
>>>> And that's IT, PERIOD. Installing Ant is not necessary because
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> includes the libraries and a script for that. A build from SVN
>>>> procedure is almost as easy:
>>>>
>>>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE)
>>>> installed
>>>> 2. make sure you have an SVN client installed
>>>> 3. with the SVN client, checkout http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/
>>>> ofbiz/trunk in a new directory
>>>> 4. go into that directory run "ant run-install", or in Linux/
>>>> Unix "./
>>>> ant run-install"
>>>> 5. still in that directory run the executable jar file (ofbiz.jar),
>>>> or one of the startup scripts
>>>>
>>>> If that's too complex for a server side application demo/test
>>>> install, I don't know what to say... or how much more we can really
>>>> do about it. What else would an automated install do? I guess it
>>>> could check the one and only dependency there is: the JDK
>>>> installation. That is where most people run into problems. The best
>>>> way to avoid that: use a Mac. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Seriously though, this world is quite #$%^ed up and there are so
>>>> many
>>>> different variations in operating systems, versions of Java (OFBiz
>>>> does NOT work with gcj and other such things), and so on that I
>>>> don't
>>>> know that we can do a lot in this area. Say we chose a version of
>>>> Linux to support: now people have to install THAT version of
>>>> Linux in
>>>> order to easily use OFBiz... hmmm...
>>>>
>>>> Still, if someone wanted to work on this, I certainly wouldn't
>>>> complain... ;)
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>>>> "As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>>>> another,
>>>>> but
>>>>> executing is another thing."
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, you can choose to make facetious remarks if you must, but I
>>>>> consider
>>>>> this very important.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look back over the user mailing list you will find it
>>>>> littered with
>>>>> requests for help just getting ofbiz up and running. I would bet
>>>>> that a lot
>>>>> of them loose interest fairly quickly and we loose a potential
>>>>> user/contributor. Since no one can evaluate the framework without
>>>>> getting it
>>>>> working, that makes it very important that new users get a really
>>>>> painless
>>>>> and easy automated installation process.
>>>>>
>>>>> About 2 years ago I was evaluating ofbiz and used the Windows
>>>>> install that
>>>>> was available then. It wasn't completely automated or that easy,
>>>>> but I got
>>>>> through it. I tried the same thing in Linux, because the final
>>>>> production
>>>>> system must run on Linux, and got totally bogged down.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that the history of Open Source has tended not to
>>>>> provide easy
>>>>> installation procedures or documentation, but the trend is
>>>>> changing. You
>>>>> will find that many of the projects that support multiple
>>>>> operating
>>>>> systems
>>>>> have excellent automated installation procedures. OK it needs a
>>>>> bit of
>>>>> effort to set up, but once done it should be easy to maintain
>>>>> and keep
>>>>> working.
>>>>>
>>>>> I deliberately specified ONLY one Linux distribution, Ubuntu 6.06
>>>>> LTS, to
>>>>> simplify the job and chose a distribution with a 5 year support
>>>>> plan.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to confess that I have looked at other ERP Open Source
>>>>> projects to
>>>>> see if I could find one that was easier to use than ofbiz. I am
>>>>> sorry if
>>>>> this hurts, but it is true. However I keep coming back to ofbiz
>>>>> because of
>>>>> its excellent architecture and true open source community.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it essential that the new user be at least accorded a
>>>>> decent
>>>>> automated install process to avoid loosing them at the first
>>>>> hurdle. I
>>>>> primarily want to USE the framework to drive my client's business
>>>>> processes
>>>>> and then contribute any patches that I feel are needed to
>>>>> improve the
>>>>> framework. I do not want to spend hours or days fiddling about
>>>>> with
>>>>> all
>>>>> sorts of things just to get the thing working without producing
>>>>> error
>>>>> messages all over the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> We also should remember that newcomers to Open Source are also new
>>>>> to Linux
>>>>> which only adds to the learning curve. Faced with a huge learning
>>>>> curve
>>>>> there is a strong tendency to give up and stick with the trash we
>>>>> have grown
>>>>> to hate e.g. Microsoft.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it really so difficult to create two automated install
>>>>> procedure? I would
>>>>> like to see a single executable download file which will then do
>>>>> everything
>>>>> that is needed to install a running ofbiz framework. That includes
>>>>> installing the correct versions of any products needed to
>>>>> support the
>>>>> installation e.g. Java Ant Postgres etc
>>>>>
>>>>> I am interested in helping put together such procedures given some
>>>>> help from
>>>>> your good selves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Ballantine.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Walter Vaughan [mailto:wvaughan@steelerubber.com]
>>>>> Sent: 02 January 2007 13:30
>>>>> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>> manuals]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I second all of that and would like to add a request that each
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> provides an automated installation procedure on MS Windows and
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> flavour
>>>>>> of Linux, say Ubuntu 6.06.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>>>> another, but
>>>>> executing is another thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where we have a failure as a community right now it the
>>>>> document we
>>>>> have at
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/GettingAndUsingOFBiz.pdf
>>>>> which probably is an old version, with incorrect links
>>>>> (it points to http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error
>>>>> page),
>>>>> (it points to
>>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/OFBiz+Technical+Production
>>>>> +Setup+Guide
>>>>> which needs a little more hand holding, and as well points to
>>>>> http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
>>>>> (it points to http://www.sequoiaerp.org/ which hasn't been around
>>>>> in 10
>>>>> months).
>>>>>
>>>>> This page is slightly better
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/setup.html
>>>>> but it sill suffers from non-linear thought process
>>>>>
>>>>> As soon as the dust settles on getting us out of the
>>>>> "incubator" I am
>>>>> completely
>>>>> confident we'll have bulletproof installation, startup, and next
>>>>> step guides
>>>>> in
>>>>> place.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>>> 14:50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>>> 14:50
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>>> 14:50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *****************************************************************
>>>>> This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller
>>>>> Service
>>>>> *****************************************************************
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>>> 02/01/2007
>>> 14:58
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>>> 02/01/2007
>>> 14:58
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>>> 02/01/2007
>>> 14:58
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Scott Gray <le...@gmail.com>.
As a side note David, I'm no longer receiving change notifications from
the confluence server, is this something you could look into? I think I
remember something about a server change?
Thanks
Scott
David E Jones wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> Just a quick note as I'm catching up with all of these messages: this
> is the _perfect_ kind of feedback we need, and thanks for sending it
> over.
>
> It's great because it identifies a specific problem based on a real
> experience, and it is hopefully something we can fix with
> documentation (even if Sun doesn't make it easy for us at ALL).
>
> -David
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> Thanks for the non-destructive response.
>>
>> your suggestions
>> 1. Excellent idea for the production install
>>
>> 2. Seriously good idea. I would be willing to have a crack at it with
>> some
>> support from the community.
>>
>> 3. VMware might be slow unless on state of the art hardware.
>>
>> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install
>> ofbiz.
>> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
>> fraught
>> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK
>> if you
>> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
>>
>> Type java into google
>> choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
>> Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
>> No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
>> try Java technology(java.sun.com)
>> Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
>> Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct
>> version.
>> If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must be a
>> better choice than the other.
>>
>> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this
>> at the
>> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>>
>> Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5
>> (JDK, not
>> just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page
>> for the
>> correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
>>
>> Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are
>> vague
>> and unclear.
>>
>> I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of
>> languages
>> so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2 years
>> ago.
>>
>> I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
>> frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made
>> difficult
>> because I do not have half the information that I need to do
>> something I am
>> not familiar with.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Andrew Ballantine.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Kunkel [mailto:DanielKunkel@BioWaves.com]
>> Sent: 02 January 2007 19:51
>> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
>> OFBizmanuals]
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The steps for an OFBiz demo are pretty straight forward, and works
>> quite
>> well most of time.
>>
>> The main stumbling block I ran into was setting up OFBiz for
>> production.
>> Granted, I did it before the Production Setup Guide existed, but it was
>> a truly onerous task with huge gotcha's since I was trying to run it on
>> a popular virtual private server, a mistake since it caused unique
>> challenging errors that no one had ever seen.
>>
>> However, it seems that all that is in the past, and now we have a number
>> of great opportunties:
>>
>> 1.) What about creating a "Production Patch" with instructions.
>>
>> People could just go through that with Search and Replace to customize
>> it for their needs, run it, and be off.
>>
>> This system seems like it would be pretty easy to create and keep up to
>> date.
>> The one gotcha I've seen here is to make sure the user runs the patch
>> against a certain release to avoid conflicts during the patch.
>>
>> 2.) Would there be a need for a live CD? It could even be possible to
>> set
>> one up a complete running OFBiz system with a database, apache, etc.
>>
>> 3.) A VMware image. VMware seems to be taking the server world by
>> storm,
>> and virtual OFBiz instance might be really popular.
>>
>> Does this spark any other ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:20 -0700, David E Jones wrote:
>>> First a couple of general thoughts on this:
>>>
>>> 1. we are still working through the process of establishing policies
>>> and procedures for community supported binary releases, and we
>>> haven't done a binary release in years (but will hopefully get a
>>> branch going soon, and a stable version of that branch in a couple of
>>> months)
>>>
>>> 2. my guess as to why this doesn't exist already is that Apache OFBiz
>>> is server-side software and such installers are not as common for
>>> this sort of thing (yes, they do of course exist); there are SO SO SO
>>> many configuration options that an automated install would have to be
>>> a huge piece of software, or address a simple case, like a demo/test
>>> install
>>>
>>> That said, and to follow up on Chris's reply to this with the install
>>> steps, the installation of OFBiz is super-easy OOTB, especially for a
>>> binary build which would look like this:
>>>
>>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE) installed
>>> 2. download OFBiz binary build, and unzip to a directory
>>> 3. go into that directory and run the executable jar file
>>> (ofbiz.jar), or one of the startup scripts
>>>
>>> And that's IT, PERIOD. Installing Ant is not necessary because OFBiz
>>> includes the libraries and a script for that. A build from SVN
>>> procedure is almost as easy:
>>>
>>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE) installed
>>> 2. make sure you have an SVN client installed
>>> 3. with the SVN client, checkout http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/
>>> ofbiz/trunk in a new directory
>>> 4. go into that directory run "ant run-install", or in Linux/Unix "./
>>> ant run-install"
>>> 5. still in that directory run the executable jar file (ofbiz.jar),
>>> or one of the startup scripts
>>>
>>> If that's too complex for a server side application demo/test
>>> install, I don't know what to say... or how much more we can really
>>> do about it. What else would an automated install do? I guess it
>>> could check the one and only dependency there is: the JDK
>>> installation. That is where most people run into problems. The best
>>> way to avoid that: use a Mac. ;)
>>>
>>> Seriously though, this world is quite #$%^ed up and there are so many
>>> different variations in operating systems, versions of Java (OFBiz
>>> does NOT work with gcj and other such things), and so on that I don't
>>> know that we can do a lot in this area. Say we chose a version of
>>> Linux to support: now people have to install THAT version of Linux in
>>> order to easily use OFBiz... hmmm...
>>>
>>> Still, if someone wanted to work on this, I certainly wouldn't
>>> complain... ;)
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>>
>>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>>> "As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>>> another,
>>>> but
>>>> executing is another thing."
>>>>
>>>> Well, you can choose to make facetious remarks if you must, but I
>>>> consider
>>>> this very important.
>>>>
>>>> If you look back over the user mailing list you will find it
>>>> littered with
>>>> requests for help just getting ofbiz up and running. I would bet
>>>> that a lot
>>>> of them loose interest fairly quickly and we loose a potential
>>>> user/contributor. Since no one can evaluate the framework without
>>>> getting it
>>>> working, that makes it very important that new users get a really
>>>> painless
>>>> and easy automated installation process.
>>>>
>>>> About 2 years ago I was evaluating ofbiz and used the Windows
>>>> install that
>>>> was available then. It wasn't completely automated or that easy,
>>>> but I got
>>>> through it. I tried the same thing in Linux, because the final
>>>> production
>>>> system must run on Linux, and got totally bogged down.
>>>>
>>>> I know that the history of Open Source has tended not to provide easy
>>>> installation procedures or documentation, but the trend is
>>>> changing. You
>>>> will find that many of the projects that support multiple operating
>>>> systems
>>>> have excellent automated installation procedures. OK it needs a bit of
>>>> effort to set up, but once done it should be easy to maintain and keep
>>>> working.
>>>>
>>>> I deliberately specified ONLY one Linux distribution, Ubuntu 6.06
>>>> LTS, to
>>>> simplify the job and chose a distribution with a 5 year support plan.
>>>>
>>>> I have to confess that I have looked at other ERP Open Source
>>>> projects to
>>>> see if I could find one that was easier to use than ofbiz. I am
>>>> sorry if
>>>> this hurts, but it is true. However I keep coming back to ofbiz
>>>> because of
>>>> its excellent architecture and true open source community.
>>>>
>>>> I think it essential that the new user be at least accorded a decent
>>>> automated install process to avoid loosing them at the first hurdle. I
>>>> primarily want to USE the framework to drive my client's business
>>>> processes
>>>> and then contribute any patches that I feel are needed to improve the
>>>> framework. I do not want to spend hours or days fiddling about with
>>>> all
>>>> sorts of things just to get the thing working without producing error
>>>> messages all over the place.
>>>>
>>>> We also should remember that newcomers to Open Source are also new
>>>> to Linux
>>>> which only adds to the learning curve. Faced with a huge learning
>>>> curve
>>>> there is a strong tendency to give up and stick with the trash we
>>>> have grown
>>>> to hate e.g. Microsoft.
>>>>
>>>> Is it really so difficult to create two automated install
>>>> procedure? I would
>>>> like to see a single executable download file which will then do
>>>> everything
>>>> that is needed to install a running ofbiz framework. That includes
>>>> installing the correct versions of any products needed to support the
>>>> installation e.g. Java Ant Postgres etc
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in helping put together such procedures given some
>>>> help from
>>>> your good selves.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Ballantine.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Walter Vaughan [mailto:wvaughan@steelerubber.com]
>>>> Sent: 02 January 2007 13:30
>>>> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> manuals]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I second all of that and would like to add a request that each new
>>>>> release
>>>>> provides an automated installation procedure on MS Windows and one
>>>>> flavour
>>>>> of Linux, say Ubuntu 6.06.
>>>>
>>>> As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>>> another, but
>>>> executing is another thing.
>>>>
>>>> Where we have a failure as a community right now it the document we
>>>> have at
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/GettingAndUsingOFBiz.pdf
>>>> which probably is an old version, with incorrect links
>>>> (it points to http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
>>>> (it points to
>>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/OFBiz+Technical+Production
>>>> +Setup+Guide
>>>> which needs a little more hand holding, and as well points to
>>>> http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
>>>> (it points to http://www.sequoiaerp.org/ which hasn't been around
>>>> in 10
>>>> months).
>>>>
>>>> This page is slightly better
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/setup.html
>>>> but it sill suffers from non-linear thought process
>>>>
>>>> As soon as the dust settles on getting us out of the "incubator" I am
>>>> completely
>>>> confident we'll have bulletproof installation, startup, and next
>>>> step guides
>>>> in
>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>> 14:50
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>> 14:50
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/01/2007
>>>> 14:50
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *****************************************************************
>>>> This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller Service
>>>> *****************************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>> 02/01/2007
>> 14:58
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>> 02/01/2007
>> 14:58
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
>> 02/01/2007
>> 14:58
>>
>
>
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by David E Jones <jo...@undersunconsulting.com>.
Andrew,
Just a quick note as I'm catching up with all of these messages: this
is the _perfect_ kind of feedback we need, and thanks for sending it
over.
It's great because it identifies a specific problem based on a real
experience, and it is hopefully something we can fix with
documentation (even if Sun doesn't make it easy for us at ALL).
-David
On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> Thanks for the non-destructive response.
>
> your suggestions
> 1. Excellent idea for the production install
>
> 2. Seriously good idea. I would be willing to have a crack at it
> with some
> support from the community.
>
> 3. VMware might be slow unless on state of the art hardware.
>
> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install
> ofbiz.
> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
> fraught
> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database.
> OK if you
> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
>
> Type java into google
> choose Download java software (www.java.com/getjava/)
> Just spot in time that this for the runtime version
> No sign of JDK on this web page, go back to google
> try Java technology(java.sun.com)
> Still no sign of JDK, is it perhaps JAVA EE 5 SDK?
> Still not confident that I am at the right location of the correct
> version.
> If I am downloading afresh is it best to load 1.5 or 1.4, one must
> be a
> better choice than the other.
>
> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing
> this at the
> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>
> Therefore if the writer of "make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5
> (JDK, not
> just JRE) installed" knew the correct location of the download page
> for the
> correct download, quoting it would be most helpful.
>
> Summary lists of what to do are exceedingly frustrating if they are
> vague
> and unclear.
>
> I am new to Java although I have programmed in quite a number of
> languages
> so I have only done this loading of JDK once before and that was 2
> years
> ago.
>
> I am sorry if you find this message irritating, but it is born out of
> frustration to complete what should be a simple task, but is made
> difficult
> because I do not have half the information that I need to do
> something I am
> not familiar with.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Andrew Ballantine.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Kunkel [mailto:DanielKunkel@BioWaves.com]
> Sent: 02 January 2007 19:51
> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
> OFBizmanuals]
>
>
> Hi
>
> The steps for an OFBiz demo are pretty straight forward, and works
> quite
> well most of time.
>
> The main stumbling block I ran into was setting up OFBiz for
> production.
> Granted, I did it before the Production Setup Guide existed, but it
> was
> a truly onerous task with huge gotcha's since I was trying to run
> it on
> a popular virtual private server, a mistake since it caused unique
> challenging errors that no one had ever seen.
>
> However, it seems that all that is in the past, and now we have a
> number
> of great opportunties:
>
> 1.) What about creating a "Production Patch" with instructions.
>
> People could just go through that with Search and Replace to customize
> it for their needs, run it, and be off.
>
> This system seems like it would be pretty easy to create and keep
> up to
> date.
> The one gotcha I've seen here is to make sure the user runs the patch
> against a certain release to avoid conflicts during the patch.
>
> 2.) Would there be a need for a live CD? It could even be possible to
> set
> one up a complete running OFBiz system with a database, apache, etc.
>
> 3.) A VMware image. VMware seems to be taking the server world by
> storm,
> and virtual OFBiz instance might be really popular.
>
> Does this spark any other ideas?
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:20 -0700, David E Jones wrote:
>> First a couple of general thoughts on this:
>>
>> 1. we are still working through the process of establishing policies
>> and procedures for community supported binary releases, and we
>> haven't done a binary release in years (but will hopefully get a
>> branch going soon, and a stable version of that branch in a couple of
>> months)
>>
>> 2. my guess as to why this doesn't exist already is that Apache OFBiz
>> is server-side software and such installers are not as common for
>> this sort of thing (yes, they do of course exist); there are SO SO SO
>> many configuration options that an automated install would have to be
>> a huge piece of software, or address a simple case, like a demo/test
>> install
>>
>> That said, and to follow up on Chris's reply to this with the install
>> steps, the installation of OFBiz is super-easy OOTB, especially for a
>> binary build which would look like this:
>>
>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE)
>> installed
>> 2. download OFBiz binary build, and unzip to a directory
>> 3. go into that directory and run the executable jar file
>> (ofbiz.jar), or one of the startup scripts
>>
>> And that's IT, PERIOD. Installing Ant is not necessary because OFBiz
>> includes the libraries and a script for that. A build from SVN
>> procedure is almost as easy:
>>
>> 1. make sure you have Sun Java 1.4 or 1.5 (JDK, not just JRE)
>> installed
>> 2. make sure you have an SVN client installed
>> 3. with the SVN client, checkout http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/
>> ofbiz/trunk in a new directory
>> 4. go into that directory run "ant run-install", or in Linux/Unix "./
>> ant run-install"
>> 5. still in that directory run the executable jar file (ofbiz.jar),
>> or one of the startup scripts
>>
>> If that's too complex for a server side application demo/test
>> install, I don't know what to say... or how much more we can really
>> do about it. What else would an automated install do? I guess it
>> could check the one and only dependency there is: the JDK
>> installation. That is where most people run into problems. The best
>> way to avoid that: use a Mac. ;)
>>
>> Seriously though, this world is quite #$%^ed up and there are so many
>> different variations in operating systems, versions of Java (OFBiz
>> does NOT work with gcj and other such things), and so on that I don't
>> know that we can do a lot in this area. Say we chose a version of
>> Linux to support: now people have to install THAT version of Linux in
>> order to easily use OFBiz... hmmm...
>>
>> Still, if someone wanted to work on this, I certainly wouldn't
>> complain... ;)
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>> "As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>> another,
>>> but
>>> executing is another thing."
>>>
>>> Well, you can choose to make facetious remarks if you must, but I
>>> consider
>>> this very important.
>>>
>>> If you look back over the user mailing list you will find it
>>> littered with
>>> requests for help just getting ofbiz up and running. I would bet
>>> that a lot
>>> of them loose interest fairly quickly and we loose a potential
>>> user/contributor. Since no one can evaluate the framework without
>>> getting it
>>> working, that makes it very important that new users get a really
>>> painless
>>> and easy automated installation process.
>>>
>>> About 2 years ago I was evaluating ofbiz and used the Windows
>>> install that
>>> was available then. It wasn't completely automated or that easy,
>>> but I got
>>> through it. I tried the same thing in Linux, because the final
>>> production
>>> system must run on Linux, and got totally bogged down.
>>>
>>> I know that the history of Open Source has tended not to provide
>>> easy
>>> installation procedures or documentation, but the trend is
>>> changing. You
>>> will find that many of the projects that support multiple operating
>>> systems
>>> have excellent automated installation procedures. OK it needs a
>>> bit of
>>> effort to set up, but once done it should be easy to maintain and
>>> keep
>>> working.
>>>
>>> I deliberately specified ONLY one Linux distribution, Ubuntu 6.06
>>> LTS, to
>>> simplify the job and chose a distribution with a 5 year support
>>> plan.
>>>
>>> I have to confess that I have looked at other ERP Open Source
>>> projects to
>>> see if I could find one that was easier to use than ofbiz. I am
>>> sorry if
>>> this hurts, but it is true. However I keep coming back to ofbiz
>>> because of
>>> its excellent architecture and true open source community.
>>>
>>> I think it essential that the new user be at least accorded a decent
>>> automated install process to avoid loosing them at the first
>>> hurdle. I
>>> primarily want to USE the framework to drive my client's business
>>> processes
>>> and then contribute any patches that I feel are needed to improve
>>> the
>>> framework. I do not want to spend hours or days fiddling about with
>>> all
>>> sorts of things just to get the thing working without producing
>>> error
>>> messages all over the place.
>>>
>>> We also should remember that newcomers to Open Source are also new
>>> to Linux
>>> which only adds to the learning curve. Faced with a huge learning
>>> curve
>>> there is a strong tendency to give up and stick with the trash we
>>> have grown
>>> to hate e.g. Microsoft.
>>>
>>> Is it really so difficult to create two automated install
>>> procedure? I would
>>> like to see a single executable download file which will then do
>>> everything
>>> that is needed to install a running ofbiz framework. That includes
>>> installing the correct versions of any products needed to support
>>> the
>>> installation e.g. Java Ant Postgres etc
>>>
>>> I am interested in helping put together such procedures given some
>>> help from
>>> your good selves.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Andrew Ballantine.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Walter Vaughan [mailto:wvaughan@steelerubber.com]
>>> Sent: 02 January 2007 13:30
>>> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
>>> OFBiz
>>> manuals]
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>>>
>>>> I second all of that and would like to add a request that each new
>>>> release
>>>> provides an automated installation procedure on MS Windows and one
>>>> flavour
>>>> of Linux, say Ubuntu 6.06.
>>>
>>> As a strategy, that's an excellent idea. Curing world hunger is
>>> another, but
>>> executing is another thing.
>>>
>>> Where we have a failure as a community right now it the document we
>>> have at
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/GettingAndUsingOFBiz.pdf
>>> which probably is an old version, with incorrect links
>>> (it points to http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
>>> (it points to
>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBTECH/OFBiz+Technical+Production
>>> +Setup+Guide
>>> which needs a little more hand holding, and as well points to
>>> http://svn.ofbiz.org/ which tosses a 403 error page),
>>> (it points to http://www.sequoiaerp.org/ which hasn't been around
>>> in 10
>>> months).
>>>
>>> This page is slightly better
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ofbiz/docs/setup.html
>>> but it sill suffers from non-linear thought process
>>>
>>> As soon as the dust settles on getting us out of the "incubator"
>>> I am
>>> completely
>>> confident we'll have bulletproof installation, startup, and next
>>> step guides
>>> in
>>> place.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/01/2007
>>> 14:50
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/01/2007
>>> 14:50
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/01/2007
>>> 14:50
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *****************************************************************
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>>> *****************************************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> 02/01/2007
> 14:58
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> 02/01/2007
> 14:58
>
RE: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Andrew Ballantine <ac...@willowbrook.co.uk>.
Thanks Jacques,
I had noticed the comments over the POS problem.
Kind regards,
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacques Le Roux [mailto:jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com]
Sent: 03 January 2007 16:01
To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
OFBizmanuals]
I plenty agree with Tim, but if you want use *POS on Linux* you might have a
look at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-567
where it seems that for the moment 1.4 do the best (ie the least worst ;o)
Jacques
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ruppert" <ti...@hotwaxmedia.com>
To: <of...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
OFBizmanuals]
> Java 1.5 works great on all platforms. I would recommend sticking
> with that my friend. We are using it with NO problems on Mac OSX
> (Intel and PowerPC), Windows, Fedora Core 5/6 & Red Hat Enterprise
> Edition at the moment.
>
> Stay as up to date as you can.
>
> Cheers
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Thank you for that also. I will incorporate into a set of
> > instructions for
> > Ubuntu.
> >
> > Is your note a recommendation to use version 1.4?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Andrew Ballantine.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Welton [mailto:davidnwelton@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 03 January 2007 15:27
> > To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
> > OFBizmanuals]
> >
> >
> >> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to
> >> install ofbiz.
> >> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
> >> fraught
> >> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database.
> >> OK if
> > you
> >> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what
> >> happens:
> >
> > .... problems installing java ...
> >
> >> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing
> >> this at
> > the
> >> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
> >
> > This should improve dramatically now that java is open source. Even
> > now, on a properly configured Ubuntu system, you can do:
> >
> > apt-get install j2sdk1.4
> >
> > and be up and ready to go in a few minutes.
> >
> > --
> > David N. Welton
> > - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
> >
> > Linux, Open Source Consulting
> > - http://www.dedasys.com/
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> >
> >
> > *****************************************************************
> > This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller Service
> > *****************************************************************
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
I plenty agree with Tim, but if you want use *POS on Linux* you might have a look at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-567
where it seems that for the moment 1.4 do the best (ie the least worst ;o)
Jacques
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ruppert" <ti...@hotwaxmedia.com>
To: <of...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
> Java 1.5 works great on all platforms. I would recommend sticking
> with that my friend. We are using it with NO problems on Mac OSX
> (Intel and PowerPC), Windows, Fedora Core 5/6 & Red Hat Enterprise
> Edition at the moment.
>
> Stay as up to date as you can.
>
> Cheers
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Thank you for that also. I will incorporate into a set of
> > instructions for
> > Ubuntu.
> >
> > Is your note a recommendation to use version 1.4?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Andrew Ballantine.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Welton [mailto:davidnwelton@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 03 January 2007 15:27
> > To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
> > OFBizmanuals]
> >
> >
> >> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to
> >> install ofbiz.
> >> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
> >> fraught
> >> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database.
> >> OK if
> > you
> >> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what
> >> happens:
> >
> > .... problems installing java ...
> >
> >> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing
> >> this at
> > the
> >> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
> >
> > This should improve dramatically now that java is open source. Even
> > now, on a properly configured Ubuntu system, you can do:
> >
> > apt-get install j2sdk1.4
> >
> > and be up and ready to go in a few minutes.
> >
> > --
> > David N. Welton
> > - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
> >
> > Linux, Open Source Consulting
> > - http://www.dedasys.com/
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> > 02/01/2007
> > 14:58
> >
> >
> >
> > *****************************************************************
> > This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller Service
> > *****************************************************************
>
>
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Tim Ruppert <ti...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Java 1.5 works great on all platforms. I would recommend sticking
with that my friend. We are using it with NO problems on Mac OSX
(Intel and PowerPC), Windows, Fedora Core 5/6 & Red Hat Enterprise
Edition at the moment.
Stay as up to date as you can.
Cheers
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595
On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Andrew Ballantine wrote:
> David,
>
> Thank you for that also. I will incorporate into a set of
> instructions for
> Ubuntu.
>
> Is your note a recommendation to use version 1.4?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Andrew Ballantine.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Welton [mailto:davidnwelton@gmail.com]
> Sent: 03 January 2007 15:27
> To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
> OFBizmanuals]
>
>
>> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to
>> install ofbiz.
>> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is
>> fraught
>> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database.
>> OK if
> you
>> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what
>> happens:
>
> .... problems installing java ...
>
>> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing
>> this at
> the
>> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
>
> This should improve dramatically now that java is open source. Even
> now, on a properly configured Ubuntu system, you can do:
>
> apt-get install j2sdk1.4
>
> and be up and ready to go in a few minutes.
>
> --
> David N. Welton
> - http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
>
> Linux, Open Source Consulting
> - http://www.dedasys.com/
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> 02/01/2007
> 14:58
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> 02/01/2007
> 14:58
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date:
> 02/01/2007
> 14:58
>
>
>
> *****************************************************************
> This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller Service
> *****************************************************************
RE: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by Andrew Ballantine <ac...@willowbrook.co.uk>.
David,
Thank you for that also. I will incorporate into a set of instructions for
Ubuntu.
Is your note a recommendation to use version 1.4?
Kind regards,
Andrew Ballantine.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Welton [mailto:davidnwelton@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 January 2007 15:27
To: ofbiz-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited
OFBizmanuals]
> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if
you
> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
.... problems installing java ...
> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at
the
> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
This should improve dramatically now that java is open source. Even
now, on a properly configured Ubuntu system, you can do:
apt-get install j2sdk1.4
and be up and ready to go in a few minutes.
--
David N. Welton
- http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Linux, Open Source Consulting
- http://www.dedasys.com/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.3/614 - Release Date: 02/01/2007
14:58
*****************************************************************
This email has been checked by the altohiway Mailcontroller Service
*****************************************************************
Re: Community supported releases WAS [Re: Properly edited OFBizmanuals]
Posted by David Welton <da...@gmail.com>.
> Although several of you have stated that its really easy to install ofbiz.
> It isn't for the uninitiated. My experience of installing Java is fraught
> with problems. This is mainly due to the layout of Sun's database. OK if you
> install java JDK every other day, but here's a sample of what happens:
.... problems installing java ...
> OK I have already spent 30 mins, slowed down slightly by writing this at the
> same time, and I still haven't completed step 1.
This should improve dramatically now that java is open source. Even
now, on a properly configured Ubuntu system, you can do:
apt-get install j2sdk1.4
and be up and ready to go in a few minutes.
--
David N. Welton
- http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Linux, Open Source Consulting
- http://www.dedasys.com/