You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@kie.apache.org by Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> on 2024/03/04 13:23:33 UTC
[PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Hello,
I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
Expressions.
Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
"yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
and the feature at the moment is experimental.
Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
Units DSL.
Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
approval to add the backend in.
Thank you
Toni Rikkola
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>.
JShell is under MIT License.
https://github.com/eobermuhlner/jshell-scriptengine
Toni
On 2024/03/06 12:26:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> Toni,
>
> Could you confirm what’s the JShell license?
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 6:18 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > #1 Yep
> >
> > #2 Dependencies are:
> > Drools - Good old Drools we already have
> > org.treblereel.gwt.yaml.mapper - Under Apache 2.0 and under this community
> > umbrella and already used by kogito-runtimes editors.
> > jshell - From Oracle, a completely new dependency introduction
> >
> > Alternatives, or options that the user can select, for jshell are likely
> > FEEL and MVEL, both already in use by the community. This depends on the
> > direction we want to take this.
> >
> > #3+4
> > This one is a tricky one to answer. Right now the features include
> > Decision Tables and Literal Expressions, but depending on the rising needs
> > and community approval, new features would be added by demand and by vote.
> > If we feel voting is necessary.
> >
> > Current driver is Red Hat's need to have simpler method for writing
> > Decision Logic. Once YaRD is put into use, then there are the same
> > requirements to maintain and support it as there is for the XLS decision
> > tables. Documentation, as I understand, should follow with any commit that
> > adds a new feature into the code base. If this is not the case, then we
> > might have to have a proposal about that :-)
> >
> > The implementation itself is a YAML interface to write Drools code. Giving
> > easier, more manageable ( but also more liming ) methods for Logic
> > authoring. One big driver is the ability to write Decision Tables with just
> > text and the benefits of Decision Tables are readability and indebt
> > validation ( rule overlaps, missing logic gaps and so on ).
> >
> > Even when YaRD has a specific name, on a technical level it is far closer
> > to the XLS Decision Tables than it is to DMN. Not saying it can not grow to
> > be as much as DMN, but there is only so much one file can handle. However
> > it does not make sense to call it YAML Decision tables, since it is a bit
> > more and has the potential to go further, it is and will be as the name
> > says: Yet Another Rule Definition.
> >
> > Toni
> >
> > On 2024/03/05 13:11:58 Gabriele Cardosi wrote:
> > > Hi Toni,
> > > to recap, it seems there are the following points of discussion (I add a
> > > couple)
> > >
> > > 1. timing (i.e. not before the 10.0 release, and I think we all agree
> > > on that)
> > > 2. transitory dependencies
> > > 3. long-term maintenance plan
> > > 4. community contribution to it (e.g. there is a new DRL refactoring
> > > initiative, and the guys after it are dedicating time and effort to
> > also
> > > document, explain, and simplify the code to facilitate external
> > > contribution)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Il giorno mar 5 mar 2024 alle ore 13:24 Toni Rikkola <rikkola@apache.org
> > >
> > > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > > Sure I can start a vote once the 10.0.0 is done.
> > > >
> > > > I will introduce the dependencies in that vote.
> > > >
> > > > Toni
> > > >
> > > > On 2024/03/05 04:31:42 Jan Šťastný wrote:
> > > > > Hello Toni and others,
> > > > > I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party
> > > > libraries
> > > > > we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and
> > if
> > > > they
> > > > > are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing
> > libraries
> > > > > seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
> > > > >
> > > > > So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be
> > run
> > > > > through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
> > > > > rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews
> > from
> > > > > committers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> > > > napsal:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is
> > not
> > > > an
> > > > > > issue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tonino
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > > > > > > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase
> > after
> > > > > > > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > > > > > > directly in the Apache repository.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <rikkola@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow.
> > Allowing
> > > > easy
> > > > > > access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not
> > easy to
> > > > > > implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the
> > YaRD
> > > > > > files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a %
> > of
> > > > > > success.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a
> > one
> > > > more
> > > > > > preferable format.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Toni
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > > > > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools
> > (apache) and
> > > > > > the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > > > > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what
> > the
> > > > > > plans are for YaRD?
> > > > > > > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best
> > decision.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools
> > parser, my
> > > > > > concern
> > > > > > > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I
> > got
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this
> > > > might
> > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <
> > toni@rikkola.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools
> > repository.
> > > > YaRD
> > > > > > is used
> > > > > > > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the
> > > > YAML
> > > > > > format.
> > > > > > > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and
> > Literal
> > > > > > > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing.
> > )
> > > > > > > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not
> > > > set in
> > > > > > stone
> > > > > > > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the
> > > > Drools
> > > > > > Rule
> > > > > > > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation
> > where
> > > > we
> > > > > > already
> > > > > > > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend.
> > The
> > > > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for
> > Validation
> > > > > > that finds
> > > > > > > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To
> > > > follow
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now
> > > > asking for
> > > > > > > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org>.
Toni,
Could you confirm what’s the JShell license?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 6:18 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> #1 Yep
>
> #2 Dependencies are:
> Drools - Good old Drools we already have
> org.treblereel.gwt.yaml.mapper - Under Apache 2.0 and under this community
> umbrella and already used by kogito-runtimes editors.
> jshell - From Oracle, a completely new dependency introduction
>
> Alternatives, or options that the user can select, for jshell are likely
> FEEL and MVEL, both already in use by the community. This depends on the
> direction we want to take this.
>
> #3+4
> This one is a tricky one to answer. Right now the features include
> Decision Tables and Literal Expressions, but depending on the rising needs
> and community approval, new features would be added by demand and by vote.
> If we feel voting is necessary.
>
> Current driver is Red Hat's need to have simpler method for writing
> Decision Logic. Once YaRD is put into use, then there are the same
> requirements to maintain and support it as there is for the XLS decision
> tables. Documentation, as I understand, should follow with any commit that
> adds a new feature into the code base. If this is not the case, then we
> might have to have a proposal about that :-)
>
> The implementation itself is a YAML interface to write Drools code. Giving
> easier, more manageable ( but also more liming ) methods for Logic
> authoring. One big driver is the ability to write Decision Tables with just
> text and the benefits of Decision Tables are readability and indebt
> validation ( rule overlaps, missing logic gaps and so on ).
>
> Even when YaRD has a specific name, on a technical level it is far closer
> to the XLS Decision Tables than it is to DMN. Not saying it can not grow to
> be as much as DMN, but there is only so much one file can handle. However
> it does not make sense to call it YAML Decision tables, since it is a bit
> more and has the potential to go further, it is and will be as the name
> says: Yet Another Rule Definition.
>
> Toni
>
> On 2024/03/05 13:11:58 Gabriele Cardosi wrote:
> > Hi Toni,
> > to recap, it seems there are the following points of discussion (I add a
> > couple)
> >
> > 1. timing (i.e. not before the 10.0 release, and I think we all agree
> > on that)
> > 2. transitory dependencies
> > 3. long-term maintenance plan
> > 4. community contribution to it (e.g. there is a new DRL refactoring
> > initiative, and the guys after it are dedicating time and effort to
> also
> > document, explain, and simplify the code to facilitate external
> > contribution)
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno mar 5 mar 2024 alle ore 13:24 Toni Rikkola <rikkola@apache.org
> >
> > ha scritto:
> >
> > > Sure I can start a vote once the 10.0.0 is done.
> > >
> > > I will introduce the dependencies in that vote.
> > >
> > > Toni
> > >
> > > On 2024/03/05 04:31:42 Jan Šťastný wrote:
> > > > Hello Toni and others,
> > > > I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party
> > > libraries
> > > > we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and
> if
> > > they
> > > > are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing
> libraries
> > > > seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
> > > >
> > > > So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be
> run
> > > > through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
> > > > rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews
> from
> > > > committers.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> > > napsal:
> > > >
> > > > > Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is
> not
> > > an
> > > > > issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tonino
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > > > > > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase
> after
> > > > > > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > > > > > directly in the Apache repository.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <rikkola@apache.org
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow.
> Allowing
> > > easy
> > > > > access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not
> easy to
> > > > > implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the
> YaRD
> > > > > files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a %
> of
> > > > > success.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a
> one
> > > more
> > > > > preferable format.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Toni
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > > > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools
> (apache) and
> > > > > the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > > > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what
> the
> > > > > plans are for YaRD?
> > > > > > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best
> decision.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools
> parser, my
> > > > > concern
> > > > > > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I
> got
> > > in
> > > > > > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this
> > > might
> > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <
> toni@rikkola.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools
> repository.
> > > YaRD
> > > > > is used
> > > > > > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the
> > > YAML
> > > > > format.
> > > > > > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and
> Literal
> > > > > > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing.
> )
> > > > > > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not
> > > set in
> > > > > stone
> > > > > > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the
> > > Drools
> > > > > Rule
> > > > > > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation
> where
> > > we
> > > > > already
> > > > > > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend.
> The
> > > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for
> Validation
> > > > > that finds
> > > > > > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To
> > > follow
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now
> > > asking for
> > > > > > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>.
#1 Yep
#2 Dependencies are:
Drools - Good old Drools we already have
org.treblereel.gwt.yaml.mapper - Under Apache 2.0 and under this community umbrella and already used by kogito-runtimes editors.
jshell - From Oracle, a completely new dependency introduction
Alternatives, or options that the user can select, for jshell are likely FEEL and MVEL, both already in use by the community. This depends on the direction we want to take this.
#3+4
This one is a tricky one to answer. Right now the features include Decision Tables and Literal Expressions, but depending on the rising needs and community approval, new features would be added by demand and by vote. If we feel voting is necessary.
Current driver is Red Hat's need to have simpler method for writing Decision Logic. Once YaRD is put into use, then there are the same requirements to maintain and support it as there is for the XLS decision tables. Documentation, as I understand, should follow with any commit that adds a new feature into the code base. If this is not the case, then we might have to have a proposal about that :-)
The implementation itself is a YAML interface to write Drools code. Giving easier, more manageable ( but also more liming ) methods for Logic authoring. One big driver is the ability to write Decision Tables with just text and the benefits of Decision Tables are readability and indebt validation ( rule overlaps, missing logic gaps and so on ).
Even when YaRD has a specific name, on a technical level it is far closer to the XLS Decision Tables than it is to DMN. Not saying it can not grow to be as much as DMN, but there is only so much one file can handle. However it does not make sense to call it YAML Decision tables, since it is a bit more and has the potential to go further, it is and will be as the name says: Yet Another Rule Definition.
Toni
On 2024/03/05 13:11:58 Gabriele Cardosi wrote:
> Hi Toni,
> to recap, it seems there are the following points of discussion (I add a
> couple)
>
> 1. timing (i.e. not before the 10.0 release, and I think we all agree
> on that)
> 2. transitory dependencies
> 3. long-term maintenance plan
> 4. community contribution to it (e.g. there is a new DRL refactoring
> initiative, and the guys after it are dedicating time and effort to also
> document, explain, and simplify the code to facilitate external
> contribution)
>
>
>
> Il giorno mar 5 mar 2024 alle ore 13:24 Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> ha scritto:
>
> > Sure I can start a vote once the 10.0.0 is done.
> >
> > I will introduce the dependencies in that vote.
> >
> > Toni
> >
> > On 2024/03/05 04:31:42 Jan Šťastný wrote:
> > > Hello Toni and others,
> > > I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party
> > libraries
> > > we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and if
> > they
> > > are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing libraries
> > > seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be run
> > > through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
> > > rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews from
> > > committers.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> > napsal:
> > >
> > > > Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is not
> > an
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > Tonino
> > > >
> > > > On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > Toni,
> > > > >
> > > > > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > > > > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
> > > > > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > > > > directly in the Apache repository.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing
> > easy
> > > > access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to
> > > > implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD
> > > > files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of
> > > > success.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one
> > more
> > > > preferable format.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Toni
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and
> > > > the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the
> > > > plans are for YaRD?
> > > > > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my
> > > > concern
> > > > > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got
> > in
> > > > > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this
> > might
> > > > look
> > > > > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository.
> > YaRD
> > > > is used
> > > > > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the
> > YAML
> > > > format.
> > > > > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not
> > set in
> > > > stone
> > > > > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the
> > Drools
> > > > Rule
> > > > > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where
> > we
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The
> > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation
> > > > that finds
> > > > > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To
> > follow
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now
> > asking for
> > > > > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Gabriele Cardosi <ga...@gmail.com>.
Hi Toni,
to recap, it seems there are the following points of discussion (I add a
couple)
1. timing (i.e. not before the 10.0 release, and I think we all agree
on that)
2. transitory dependencies
3. long-term maintenance plan
4. community contribution to it (e.g. there is a new DRL refactoring
initiative, and the guys after it are dedicating time and effort to also
document, explain, and simplify the code to facilitate external
contribution)
Il giorno mar 5 mar 2024 alle ore 13:24 Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
ha scritto:
> Sure I can start a vote once the 10.0.0 is done.
>
> I will introduce the dependencies in that vote.
>
> Toni
>
> On 2024/03/05 04:31:42 Jan Šťastný wrote:
> > Hello Toni and others,
> > I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party
> libraries
> > we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and if
> they
> > are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing libraries
> > seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
> >
> > So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be run
> > through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
> > rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews from
> > committers.
> >
> > Regards
> > Jan
> >
> > Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> napsal:
> >
> > > Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is not
> an
> > > issue.
> > >
> > > Tonino
> > >
> > > On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > Toni,
> > > >
> > > > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > > > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
> > > > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > > > directly in the Apache repository.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing
> easy
> > > access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to
> > > implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > > > >
> > > > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD
> > > files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of
> > > success.
> > > > >
> > > > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one
> more
> > > preferable format.
> > > > >
> > > > > Toni
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and
> > > the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the
> > > plans are for YaRD?
> > > > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my
> > > concern
> > > > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got
> in
> > > > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this
> might
> > > look
> > > > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository.
> YaRD
> > > is used
> > > > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the
> YAML
> > > format.
> > > > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not
> set in
> > > stone
> > > > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the
> Drools
> > > Rule
> > > > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where
> we
> > > already
> > > > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The
> > > existing
> > > > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation
> > > that finds
> > > > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To
> follow
> > > the
> > > > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now
> asking for
> > > > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>.
Sure I can start a vote once the 10.0.0 is done.
I will introduce the dependencies in that vote.
Toni
On 2024/03/05 04:31:42 Jan Šťastný wrote:
> Hello Toni and others,
> I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party libraries
> we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and if they
> are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing libraries
> seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
>
> So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be run
> through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
> rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews from
> committers.
>
> Regards
> Jan
>
> Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> napsal:
>
> > Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is not an
> > issue.
> >
> > Tonino
> >
> > On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > Toni,
> > >
> > > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
> > > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > > directly in the Apache repository.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing easy
> > access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to
> > implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > > >
> > > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD
> > files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of
> > success.
> > > >
> > > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one more
> > preferable format.
> > > >
> > > > Toni
> > > >
> > > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and
> > the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the
> > plans are for YaRD?
> > > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > > Toni,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my
> > concern
> > > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might
> > look
> > > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD
> > is used
> > > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML
> > format.
> > > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in
> > stone
> > > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools
> > Rule
> > > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we
> > already
> > > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The
> > existing
> > > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation
> > that finds
> > > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow
> > the
> > > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Jan Šťastný <js...@apache.org>.
Hello Toni and others,
I'd just add to this that we should also evaluate what 3rd party libraries
we're bringing in with this addition. If they're allowed in ASF and if they
are well maintained and addressed for vulnerabilities. (Parsing libraries
seems to be prone to these issues more than others.)
So I was wondering if such an addition (if/when it happens) would be run
through voting where we could safe-check the concerns I stated above,
rather than a PR where it's sufficient to get 2 approving reviews from
committers.
Regards
Jan
Dne po 4. 3. 2024 19:40 uživatel Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> napsal:
> Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is not an
> issue.
>
> Tonino
>
> On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > Toni,
> >
> > Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> > comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
> > the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> > directly in the Apache repository.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing easy
> access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to
> implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> > >
> > > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD
> files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of
> success.
> > >
> > > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one more
> preferable format.
> > >
> > > Toni
> > >
> > > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > > Hi Tonino!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and
> the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > > >
> > > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the
> plans are for YaRD?
> > > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > > Toni,
> > > > >
> > > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my
> concern
> > > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > > >
> > > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might
> look
> > > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD
> is used
> > > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML
> format.
> > > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > > > Expressions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in
> stone
> > > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools
> Rule
> > > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we
> already
> > > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The
> existing
> > > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation
> that finds
> > > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow
> the
> > > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>.
Sure. I am working on this alone for now, so a reasonable delay is not an issue.
Tonino
On 2024/03/04 15:26:01 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> Toni,
>
> Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
> comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
> the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
> directly in the Apache repository.
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing easy access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
> >
> > However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of success.
> >
> > YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one more preferable format.
> >
> > Toni
> >
> > On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > > Hi Tonino!
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> > >
> > > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the plans are for YaRD?
> > > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > > Toni,
> > > >
> > > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> > > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > > >
> > > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> > > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > > Expressions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > > >
> > > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > > >
> > > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > > > > Units DSL.
> > > > >
> > > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you
> > > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Alex Porcelli <al...@porcelli.me>.
Toni,
Although you mentioned that it's quite isolated, I feel more
comfortable if we could delay to introduce it to the codebase after
the 10.0.0 release - in the meantime maybe use a feature branch
directly in the Apache repository.
On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 10:15 AM Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing easy access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
>
> However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of success.
>
> YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one more preferable format.
>
> Toni
>
> On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> > Hi Tonino!
> >
> > Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> > I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
> >
> > Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> > Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the plans are for YaRD?
> > I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
> >
> >
> > On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > > Toni,
> > >
> > > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> > > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> > >
> > > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> > > appealing to k8s audience :)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > > Expressions.
> > > >
> > > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > > >
> > > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > > >
> > > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > > > Units DSL.
> > > >
> > > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > > approval to add the backend in.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > > Toni Rikkola
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <ri...@apache.org>.
Future goals can include having YaRD next to SonataFlow. Allowing easy access to Decision Tables and other Decision logic that is not easy to implement with a flow structure and of course the other way around.
However there are also other targets. One method is to use the YaRD files as scorecards. Based on the inputs the end result gives a % of success.
YaRD can also be used to aggregate several REST calls into a one more preferable format.
Toni
On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> Hi Tonino!
>
> Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
>
> Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the plans are for YaRD?
> I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
>
>
> On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > Toni,
> >
> > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> >
> > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> > appealing to k8s audience :)
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > Expressions.
> > >
> > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > >
> > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > >
> > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > > Units DSL.
> > >
> > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > approval to add the backend in.
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Toni Rikkola
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Yeser Amer <ya...@apache.org>.
* Toni, apologies for the typo :/
On 2024/03/04 14:27:07 Yeser Amer wrote:
> Hi Toni!
>
> Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
> I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
>
> Can I ask where the code is currently located?
> Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the plans are for YaRD?
> I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
>
>
> On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> > Toni,
> >
> > As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> > is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
> >
> > I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> > trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> > appealing to k8s audience :)
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > > Expressions.
> > >
> > > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> > >
> > > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> > >
> > > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > > Units DSL.
> > >
> > > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > > approval to add the backend in.
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Toni Rikkola
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Yeser Amer <ya...@apache.org>.
Hi Tonino!
Thanks for sharing a brief description of YaRD here.
I agree with you that having the editor in kie-tools (apache) and the engine in another area (kie?) is not ideal.
Can I ask where the code is currently located?
Since you said the feature is "experimental", can I ask what the plans are for YaRD?
I think clarifying this point can help us make the best decision.
On 2024/03/04 13:53:07 Alex Porcelli wrote:
> Toni,
>
> As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
>
> I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> appealing to k8s audience :)
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > Expressions.
> >
> > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> >
> > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> >
> > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > Units DSL.
> >
> > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > approval to add the backend in.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Toni Rikkola
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Toni Rikkola <tr...@redhat.com>.
Hi,
Yes the format is aimed to please the YAML fans. So not for everyone and in
the same way as with Perl, you can do great things, but also a huge mess.
The ideal YaRD file is likely something you can read without, or with
minimal, scrolling.
There is also the possibility of having a Guided Editor in the future.
Maybe paired with support for JSON and this will make the file content more
complicated. However the UI will give more control.
For risking 10.0.0. Since this is a "leaf" in the tree, nothing depends on
it yet. This means nothing upstream can break. This leaves a risk of the
changes simply breaking the build.
If this is seen as a risk then we would have to merge it after 10.0.0.
The work on YaRD itself will continue. This is just an offering for the KIE
Apache group.
One of the benefits of having this in KIE is easier access to the
Verification & Validation tooling that will be able to support both Drools
and YaRD. Possibly other Rule formats as time goes by.
Toni
On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 4:02 PM Alex Porcelli <al...@porcelli.me> wrote:
> Toni,
>
> As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
>
> I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> appealing to k8s audience :)
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > Expressions.
> >
> > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> >
> > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> >
> > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > Units DSL.
> >
> > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > approval to add the backend in.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Toni Rikkola
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Tibor Zimányi <tz...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I personally think that if something new should get in, it should get in
after we release 10. I know it may probably be pretty isolated, however we
should now just focus on getting 10 out. So I would propose to postpone
this decision after the release.
Best regards,
Tibor
Dňa po 4. 3. 2024, 14:53 Alex Porcelli <al...@porcelli.me> napísal(a):
> Toni,
>
> As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
> is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
>
> I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
> trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
> appealing to k8s audience :)
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> > to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> > At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> > Expressions.
> >
> > Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> > "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> > A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
> >
> > The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> > and the feature at the moment is experimental.
> >
> > Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> > Units DSL.
> >
> > Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> > have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> > editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> > redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> > Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> > approval to add the backend in.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Toni Rikkola
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] YaRD - Yet Another Rule Definition
Posted by Alex Porcelli <al...@porcelli.me>.
Toni,
As in previous discussion related to the new Drools parser, my concern
is how much this might affect the 10.0.0 release.
I personally am not a big fan of YAML, in a recent demo I got in
trouble because of 2 spaces :D - but I understand that this might look
appealing to k8s audience :)
On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 8:23 AM Toni Rikkola <to...@rikkola.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am proposing we add YaRD into the kie-drools repository. YaRD is used
> to describe Decisions, Rules and Declarative logic in the YAML format.
> At the current state it supports Decision Tables and Literal
> Expressions.
>
> Example of a Decision Table is in attached file
> "yard-dtable-example.txt". ( In .txt for easier viewing. )
> A more complex example is in attached "costs.txt".
>
> The YAML structure and the used scripting language is not set in stone
> and the feature at the moment is experimental.
>
> Under the YAML cover it runs Drools, in more detail the Drools Rule
> Units DSL.
>
> Due to the move to Apache we are in a weird situation where we already
> have an editor for YaRD in kie-tools without a backend. The existing
> editor has a simple autocomplete with support for Validation that finds
> redundancy and subsumption from the Decision Tables. To follow the
> Apache community rules and to show visibility I am now asking for
> approval to add the backend in.
>
> Thank you
> Toni Rikkola
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@kie.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@kie.apache.org