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Posted to dev@tinkerpop.apache.org by Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com> on 2015/10/10 19:12:17 UTC
The growth of GraphQL.
Hello TinkerPoppers,
Please see this:
https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if someone in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled graph systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between TinkerPop and GraphQL?
Thanks,
Marko.
http://markorodriguez.com
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jonathan Schneider <jo...@netflix.com.INVALID>.
Matt,
GraphQL/Falcor are absolutely QBE languages.
Satisfying GraphQL queries directly from a TP3 graph without having to
write all of the binding logic would be useful. Satisfying these queries
is way too tedious right now.
Here is one example of a way TP3 could help (there are others):
Suppose I have two domain objects and a simple in-memory map of both based
on ID for my data store:
data class Person(val id: Int, val name: String, val livesAt: Address)
data class Address(val id: Int, val street: String, val city: String)
This query is easy to satisfy with one index lookup, because Person already
has a pointer to Address:
{ person(id: 123) { name, addressLivesAt { street, city } } }
The reverse requires an index lookup and a linear scan of all Persons to
find the matching Address:
{ address(id: 456) { street,
city, personLivesAt { name } } }
Of course we could augment our data model as follows:
data class Address(val id: Int, val street: String, val city: String, *val
livesAt: Person*)
Or we could store a separate Map<Address, Person> and cheapen the lookup
somewhat. Either way, we have to manage this separately. If both models
are stored in a graph, e.g...
( Person ) --- livesAt ---> ( Address )
... then both queries are satisfiable with a single index lookup and
index-free adjacency. Also, there is no need to alter the structure of
Addresses to answer a new query.
Jon
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 11:50 AM Matt Frantz <ma...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I would love to understand the relationship between GraphQL and TinkerPop,
> and to participate in any calls that happen. I watched a video back when
> GraphQL was announced and discussed briefly on this list. I don't
> understand exactly why they call this "Graph Query Language", as it seems
> like a Query-By-Example (QBE) language, i.e. here's the structure of the
> result I expect. The GraphQL data model seems to be hierarchical, and thus
> not necessarily well-suited to general graph queries. It made me curious
> about "graph literals", and whether there was a similarly terse syntax for
> indicating the schema of a graph. GraphQL feels like JSON without any
> values, i.e. keys only. That's only an approximation, but the ability to
> specify a graph schema by value-erasure of a graph literal is appealing.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello TinkerPoppers,
> >
> > Please see this:
> > https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
> >
> > GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if
> someone
> > in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
> > GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled
> graph
> > systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
> > functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
> > TinkerPop and GraphQL?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Marko.
> >
> > http://markorodriguez.com
> >
> >
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Matt Frantz <ma...@gmail.com>.
I would love to understand the relationship between GraphQL and TinkerPop,
and to participate in any calls that happen. I watched a video back when
GraphQL was announced and discussed briefly on this list. I don't
understand exactly why they call this "Graph Query Language", as it seems
like a Query-By-Example (QBE) language, i.e. here's the structure of the
result I expect. The GraphQL data model seems to be hierarchical, and thus
not necessarily well-suited to general graph queries. It made me curious
about "graph literals", and whether there was a similarly terse syntax for
indicating the schema of a graph. GraphQL feels like JSON without any
values, i.e. keys only. That's only an approximation, but the ability to
specify a graph schema by value-erasure of a graph literal is appealing.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello TinkerPoppers,
>
> Please see this:
> https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
>
> GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if someone
> in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
> GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled graph
> systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
> functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
> TinkerPop and GraphQL?
>
> Thanks,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by James Thornton <ja...@jamesthornton.com>.
Marko -
David Nolen -- the ClojureScript lead -- gave a talk a few months back that
gives an overview of how Facebook's Relay/GraphQL and Netscape's
JSONGraph/Falcor relate, where they fit, and the problems they are trying
to solve, e.g. using Relay/GraphQL and JSONGraph/Falcor to declare
composable graph fragments for querying across distributed services:
- Om Next - David Nolen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByNs9TG30E8
- Keynote - JSON Graph: Reactive REST at Netflix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOE6nVVr14c
- Data fetching for React applications at Facebook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sc8Pyc51uU
- James
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:12 PM, Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello TinkerPoppers,
>
> Please see this:
> https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
>
> GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if someone
> in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
> GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled graph
> systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
> functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
> TinkerPop and GraphQL?
>
> Thanks,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
>
--
James Thornton, *http://electricspeed.com <http://electricspeed.com>*
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Dylan Millikin <dy...@gmail.com>.
Seems like there's some grey area here.
Surely private companies that qualify as "users" of the stack can provide
feedback and insight as to how it's used, it's limitations and how it can
be improved for their use case - which is what Jon is doing -. Then it's up
to the community to decide what to do (if anything) and individuals at the
company in question are open to participate (as individuals - legality) to
the implementation so long as it stays community driven.
At least that's my understanding. Daniel can confirm/refute.
As such I think what Jon means by "steered" would be more accurately
described as to initiate or to incept?
Cheers,
Dylan.
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider <
joschneider@netflix.com.invalid> wrote:
> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
>
> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there are
> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem and
> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
>
> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was not
> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts, or
> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
> Perhaps recorded?
>
> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no collaboration
> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered by
> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
>
> Jon
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> > > Hello Jon,
> > >
> > >> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> > >> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
> > >> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under
> fetching
> > >> problem and are more or less equivalent.
> > >
> > > Gotcha.
> > >
> > >> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> > Tinkerpop
> > >> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
> > >> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> > >> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
> > angles?
> > >
> > > Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait
> for
> > an answer to:
> > >
> > > MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
> > commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about
> potential
> > collaborations?
> > >
> >
> > It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
> > this on the dev list.
> > If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
> > project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
> >
> > Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
> > can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
> > program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
> > this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
> > likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jason Plurad <pl...@gmail.com>.
Stirring up this old thread, I chatted briefly with Steve Klabnik who just
pitched http://jsonapi.org/ at All Things Open in Raleigh. Seems like there
are similarities here with GraphQL and Falcor as well.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:01 PM David Robinson <dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My take on GraphQL is almost identical to Matt F's, even to the remarks on
> how its name is confusing.
>
> To convert a GraphQL statement like the following example into a TP3 query:
>
> {
> user(id: 3500401) {
> ID,
> name,
> isViewerFriend,
> profilePicture(size: 50) {
> uri,
> width,
> height
> }
> }}
>
> graph meta data has to be applied, but that alone might not be enough. In
> the example, ID could
> be a property on user, another vertex or even an edge label or property.
> But since there is nothing
> that forces ID to be unique, it could be all the above in a graph, making
> the query, even with
> meta data ambiguous. If something was "hard coded" for a particular
> query/graph set of scenarios
> this might work. But as Matt said, it doesn't seem good for general
> purpose graph queries.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Daniel, it sounds like we need to quickly turn and correct any
> conversation
> > that introduces the perception that "non-individuals" are doing stuff in
> > our project (even when that is not really what the intention is). Your
> > cartoonish example, as you called it, made sense to me.
> >
> > I think HipChat is a good place to start as well. It sounded like a lot
> of
> > folks wanted to join to hear what was going on here, it seems like
> > scheduling a time when a talk could happen would be good. Jon, maybe you
> > could throw out a few days when you might be able to join the HipChat
> room
> > and we could converge on something that works.
> >
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2015 11:05 AM, "Marko Rodriguez" <ok...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Jon,
> > >
> > > Perhaps lets start slow and surefooted by jumping into TinkerPop's
> Apache
> > > HipChat room sometime this week. The public URL for anyone to join and
> > chat
> > > is here:
> > >
> > > https://www.hipchat.com/gz5JlgJBC
> > >
> > > This way Gruno can monitor the discussion and if he feels comfortable
> > with
> > > how things are unfolding, then we can increase the bandwidth
> accordingly.
> > >
> > > I'm in there all day 5 days a week, but if you want to propose a
> specific
> > > time, please do.
> > >
> > > Marko.
> > >
> > > http://markorodriguez.com
> > >
> > > On Oct 11, 2015, at 5:44 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote:
> > > >> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
> > > >
> > > > If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back.
> > > > Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with
> > > > projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking
> > > > their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop
> > > > project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that
> > > > (ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company
> > acting
> > > > as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms
> > > > (contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship
> between
> > > >> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that
> > there
> > > are
> > > >> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this
> > problem
> > > and
> > > >> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
> > > >> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
> > > >>
> > > >> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which
> was
> > > not
> > > >> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat,
> Hangouts,
> > > or
> > > >> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
> > > >> Perhaps recorded?
> > > >
> > > > Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking
> > to
> > > > and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed
> open
> > > > source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it,
> > > > provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a
> > > > neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have
> > > > been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public
> > > > perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we
> > > > act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way).
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no
> > > collaboration
> > > >> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be
> > steered
> > > by
> > > >> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
> > > >
> > > > That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you
> cannot
> > > > collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company.
> > > >
> > > > GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project
> > > > BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss
> > says...
> > > >
> > > > The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point.
> > > >
> > > > With regards,
> > > > Daniel.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Jon
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> > > >>>> Hello Jon,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> > > >>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for
> > slightly
> > > >>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under
> > > fetching
> > > >>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Gotcha.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> > > >>> Tinkerpop
> > > >>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set
> up
> > > an
> > > >>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> > > >>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from
> different
> > > >>> angles?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets
> wait
> > > for
> > > >>> an answer to:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with
> a
> > > >>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about
> > > potential
> > > >>> collaborations?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to
> discuss
> > > >>> this on the dev list.
> > > >>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but
> as
> > a
> > > >>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project.
> They
> > > >>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay
> devs
> > to
> > > >>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit
> > for
> > > >>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project
> > and
> > > >>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with
> companies.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> With regards,
> > > >>> Daniel.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by David Robinson <dr...@gmail.com>.
My take on GraphQL is almost identical to Matt F's, even to the remarks on
how its name is confusing.
To convert a GraphQL statement like the following example into a TP3 query:
{
user(id: 3500401) {
ID,
name,
isViewerFriend,
profilePicture(size: 50) {
uri,
width,
height
}
}}
graph meta data has to be applied, but that alone might not be enough. In
the example, ID could
be a property on user, another vertex or even an edge label or property.
But since there is nothing
that forces ID to be unique, it could be all the above in a graph, making
the query, even with
meta data ambiguous. If something was "hard coded" for a particular
query/graph set of scenarios
this might work. But as Matt said, it doesn't seem good for general
purpose graph queries.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Daniel, it sounds like we need to quickly turn and correct any conversation
> that introduces the perception that "non-individuals" are doing stuff in
> our project (even when that is not really what the intention is). Your
> cartoonish example, as you called it, made sense to me.
>
> I think HipChat is a good place to start as well. It sounded like a lot of
> folks wanted to join to hear what was going on here, it seems like
> scheduling a time when a talk could happen would be good. Jon, maybe you
> could throw out a few days when you might be able to join the HipChat room
> and we could converge on something that works.
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 11:05 AM, "Marko Rodriguez" <ok...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Jon,
> >
> > Perhaps lets start slow and surefooted by jumping into TinkerPop's Apache
> > HipChat room sometime this week. The public URL for anyone to join and
> chat
> > is here:
> >
> > https://www.hipchat.com/gz5JlgJBC
> >
> > This way Gruno can monitor the discussion and if he feels comfortable
> with
> > how things are unfolding, then we can increase the bandwidth accordingly.
> >
> > I'm in there all day 5 days a week, but if you want to propose a specific
> > time, please do.
> >
> > Marko.
> >
> > http://markorodriguez.com
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2015, at 5:44 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote:
> > >> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
> > >
> > > If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back.
> > > Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with
> > > projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking
> > > their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop
> > > project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that
> > > (ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company
> acting
> > > as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms
> > > (contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
> > >> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that
> there
> > are
> > >> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this
> problem
> > and
> > >> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
> > >> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
> > >>
> > >> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was
> > not
> > >> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts,
> > or
> > >> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
> > >> Perhaps recorded?
> > >
> > > Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking
> to
> > > and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed open
> > > source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it,
> > > provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a
> > > neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have
> > > been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public
> > > perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we
> > > act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way).
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no
> > collaboration
> > >> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be
> steered
> > by
> > >> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
> > >
> > > That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you cannot
> > > collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company.
> > >
> > > GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project
> > > BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss
> says...
> > >
> > > The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point.
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Daniel.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Jon
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> > >>>> Hello Jon,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> > >>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for
> slightly
> > >>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under
> > fetching
> > >>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Gotcha.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> > >>> Tinkerpop
> > >>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up
> > an
> > >>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> > >>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
> > >>> angles?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait
> > for
> > >>> an answer to:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
> > >>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about
> > potential
> > >>> collaborations?
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
> > >>> this on the dev list.
> > >>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as
> a
> > >>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
> > >>>
> > >>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
> > >>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs
> to
> > >>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit
> for
> > >>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project
> and
> > >>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
> > >>>
> > >>> With regards,
> > >>> Daniel.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>.
Daniel, it sounds like we need to quickly turn and correct any conversation
that introduces the perception that "non-individuals" are doing stuff in
our project (even when that is not really what the intention is). Your
cartoonish example, as you called it, made sense to me.
I think HipChat is a good place to start as well. It sounded like a lot of
folks wanted to join to hear what was going on here, it seems like
scheduling a time when a talk could happen would be good. Jon, maybe you
could throw out a few days when you might be able to join the HipChat room
and we could converge on something that works.
On Oct 11, 2015 11:05 AM, "Marko Rodriguez" <ok...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Jon,
>
> Perhaps lets start slow and surefooted by jumping into TinkerPop's Apache
> HipChat room sometime this week. The public URL for anyone to join and chat
> is here:
>
> https://www.hipchat.com/gz5JlgJBC
>
> This way Gruno can monitor the discussion and if he feels comfortable with
> how things are unfolding, then we can increase the bandwidth accordingly.
>
> I'm in there all day 5 days a week, but if you want to propose a specific
> time, please do.
>
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
> On Oct 11, 2015, at 5:44 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote:
> >> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
> >
> > If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back.
> > Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with
> > projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking
> > their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop
> > project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that
> > (ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company acting
> > as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms
> > (contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline.
> >
> >>
> >> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
> >> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there
> are
> >> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem
> and
> >> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
> >> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
> >>
> >> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was
> not
> >> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts,
> or
> >> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
> >> Perhaps recorded?
> >
> > Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking to
> > and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed open
> > source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it,
> > provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a
> > neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have
> > been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public
> > perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we
> > act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way).
> >
> >>
> >> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no
> collaboration
> >> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered
> by
> >> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
> >
> > That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you cannot
> > collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company.
> >
> > GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project
> > BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss says...
> >
> > The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point.
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> >>>> Hello Jon,
> >>>>
> >>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> >>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
> >>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under
> fetching
> >>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gotcha.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> >>> Tinkerpop
> >>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up
> an
> >>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> >>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
> >>> angles?
> >>>>
> >>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait
> for
> >>> an answer to:
> >>>>
> >>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
> >>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about
> potential
> >>> collaborations?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
> >>> this on the dev list.
> >>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
> >>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
> >>>
> >>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
> >>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
> >>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
> >>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
> >>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
> >>>
> >>> With regards,
> >>> Daniel.
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>.
Hey Jon,
Perhaps lets start slow and surefooted by jumping into TinkerPop's Apache HipChat room sometime this week. The public URL for anyone to join and chat is here:
https://www.hipchat.com/gz5JlgJBC
This way Gruno can monitor the discussion and if he feels comfortable with how things are unfolding, then we can increase the bandwidth accordingly.
I'm in there all day 5 days a week, but if you want to propose a specific time, please do.
Marko.
http://markorodriguez.com
On Oct 11, 2015, at 5:44 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote:
>> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
>
> If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back.
> Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with
> projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking
> their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop
> project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that
> (ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company acting
> as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms
> (contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline.
>
>>
>> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
>> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there are
>> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem and
>> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
>> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
>>
>> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was not
>> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts, or
>> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
>> Perhaps recorded?
>
> Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking to
> and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed open
> source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it,
> provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a
> neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have
> been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public
> perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we
> act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way).
>
>>
>> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no collaboration
>> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered by
>> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
>
> That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you cannot
> collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company.
>
> GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project
> BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss says...
>
> The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Hello Jon,
>>>>
>>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
>>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
>>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
>>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
>>>>
>>>> Gotcha.
>>>>
>>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
>>> Tinkerpop
>>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
>>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
>>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
>>> angles?
>>>>
>>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for
>>> an answer to:
>>>>
>>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
>>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential
>>> collaborations?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
>>> this on the dev list.
>>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
>>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
>>>
>>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
>>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
>>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
>>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
>>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>> Daniel.
>>>
>>
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/11/2015 03:30 AM, Jonathan Schneider wrote:
> I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
If anything, it might be a misunderstanding of what I wrote back.
Companies can contribute to ASF projects, they can collaborate with
projects, but both they AND we must do so as individuals - checking
their company privileges, rules and hats at the door. The TinkerPop
project cannot collaborate with a company, as we simply don't do that
(ever), but they can collaborate with individuals of that company acting
as individuals. My reply was as much a clarification of terms
(contributors and collaborators) as it was a guideline.
>
> I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
> Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there are
> a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem and
> it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
> Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
>
> The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was not
> at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts, or
> whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
> Perhaps recorded?
Again, this depends on the independence of the people you are talking to
and the outcome. If this is an Apache (or MIT/BSD-style) licensed open
source project, then you are of course welcome to add support for it,
provided you handle the press/marketing/announcement around it in a
neutral manner, so as to not give the impression that any favors have
been played here (I'm quite well aware of the _why_ here, but public
perception is also a key element in staying neutral. Not only must we
act neutral, we must also tell it in a neutral way).
>
> Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no collaboration
> between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered by
> private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
That was not what I was implying, no. But, as stated above, you cannot
collaborate with a company, only the individuals in that company.
GOOD: We just collaborated with committers from the XYZ project
BAD: We just had a conf call with $company folks, and their boss says...
The above is a bit cartoonish, but I hope it illustrates my point.
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> Jon
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
>>> Hello Jon,
>>>
>>>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
>>>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
>>>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
>>>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
>>>
>>> Gotcha.
>>>
>>>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
>> Tinkerpop
>>>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
>>>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
>>>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
>> angles?
>>>
>>> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for
>> an answer to:
>>>
>>> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
>> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential
>> collaborations?
>>>
>>
>> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
>> this on the dev list.
>> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
>> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
>>
>> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
>> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
>> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
>> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
>> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jonathan Schneider <jo...@netflix.com.INVALID>.
I hope this is simply another case of misunderstanding.
I do not mean to imply that there should be some relationship between
Netflix as an organization and the Tinkerpop project, merely that there are
a number of parties that are working on different sides of this problem and
it would be beneficial to have a quick live discussion about whether
Tinkerpop fits into this or not.
The word "call" may have implied a private meeting as well, which was not
at all the intent. Can we host something on Apache Hipchat, Hangouts, or
whatever other medium is available that would allow anybody to join?
Perhaps recorded?
Daniel - I hope you don't mean to imply that there can be no collaboration
between ASF projects and open source projects that happen to be steered by
private companies. That seems painfully limiting if true.
Jon
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> > Hello Jon,
> >
> >> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> >> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
> >> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
> >> problem and are more or less equivalent.
> >
> > Gotcha.
> >
> >> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> Tinkerpop
> >> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
> >> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> >> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
> angles?
> >
> > Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for
> an answer to:
> >
> > MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential
> collaborations?
> >
>
> It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
> this on the dev list.
> If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
> project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
>
> Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
> can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
> program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
> this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
> likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/10/2015 07:43 PM, Marko Rodriguez wrote:
> Hello Jon,
>
>> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
>> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
>> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
>> problem and are more or less equivalent.
>
> Gotcha.
>
>> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and Tinkerpop
>> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
>> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
>> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different angles?
>
> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for an answer to:
>
> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential collaborations?
>
It's not okay for the Tinkerpop project, and it's not okay to discuss
this on the dev list.
If you, as an individual, want to make that phone call, fine, but as a
project, Tinkerpop must be completely vendor neutral.
Companies cannot - I repeat cannot - collaborate with a project. They
can sponsor items (without their branding on), and they can pay devs to
program as *independent individuals* (provided they gain the merit for
this), but companies themselves cannot contribute to an ASF project and
likewise, the ASF cannot contribute to or collaborate with companies.
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jonathan Schneider <jo...@netflix.com.INVALID>.
All,
I should have been more clear. We should not make any decisions on
direction and can summarize any insights for the dev list.
Jon
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:43 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello Jon,
>
> > Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> > <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
> > different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
> > problem and are more or less equivalent.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> > Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> Tinkerpop
> > immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
> > introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> > Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different
> angles?
>
> Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for
> an answer to:
>
> MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a
> commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential
> collaborations?
>
> Thank you Jon,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
>
>
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello TinkerPoppers,
> >>
> >> Please see this:
> >> https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
> >>
> >> GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if
> someone
> >> in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
> >> GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled
> graph
> >> systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
> >> functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
> >> TinkerPop and GraphQL?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Marko.
> >>
> >> http://markorodriguez.com
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>.
Hello Jon,
> Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
> <http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
> different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
> problem and are more or less equivalent.
Gotcha.
> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and Tinkerpop
> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
> introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
> Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different angles?
Excellent. Yes, lets have a call. However, before I commit lets wait for an answer to:
MENTORS: Is it "okay" to have a phone call (thus "off list") with a commercial entity to talk about their use of TinkerPop and about potential collaborations?
Thank you Jon,
Marko.
http://markorodriguez.com
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello TinkerPoppers,
>>
>> Please see this:
>> https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
>>
>> GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if someone
>> in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
>> GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled graph
>> systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
>> functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
>> TinkerPop and GraphQL?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marko.
>>
>> http://markorodriguez.com
>>
>>
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jason Plurad <pl...@gmail.com>.
+1 I'm interested participating too
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jean-Baptiste Musso <jb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Jonathan Schneider
> <jo...@netflix.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and
> Tinkerpop
> > immediately and I'm sure several of us could help.
>
> Wow! This is fantastic news and I'm only half-surprised that Netflix
> has such interests. I'm pretty sure this would have immense and
> positive long term repercussions especially in the web
> development/JavaScript community.
>
> I'll happily participate in the discussions and help if I can.
>
> Jean-Baptiste
>
--
Have a good one,
Jason
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Musso <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Jonathan Schneider
<jo...@netflix.com.invalid> wrote:
> Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and Tinkerpop
> immediately and I'm sure several of us could help.
Wow! This is fantastic news and I'm only half-surprised that Netflix
has such interests. I'm pretty sure this would have immense and
positive long term repercussions especially in the web
development/JavaScript community.
I'll happily participate in the discussions and help if I can.
Jean-Baptiste
Re: The growth of GraphQL.
Posted by Jonathan Schneider <jo...@netflix.com.INVALID>.
Marko,
Netflix has recently released a similar library called Falcor
<http://netflix.github.io/falcor/>. They are optimized for slightly
different uses, but are both angling at solving the over/under fetching
problem and are more or less equivalent.
Netflix has a need for a solid binding between Falcor/GraphQL and Tinkerpop
immediately and I'm sure several of us could help. Could we set up an
introductory call with the Netflix UI Engineering, Platform, and
Engineering Tools teams that are all hacking at this from different angles?
Jon
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello TinkerPoppers,
>
> Please see this:
> https://facebook.github.io/relay/docs/thinking-in-graphql.html
>
> GraphQL seems to be popping up more and more. It would be great if someone
> in their community built a compiler to Gremlin's instruction set so that
> GraphQL (like Kupptiz's SPARQL-Gremlin) worked over TinkerPop-enabled graph
> systems. Does anyone have any insights into how the GraphQL community
> functions and who to talk to to try and get some collaboration between
> TinkerPop and GraphQL?
>
> Thanks,
> Marko.
>
> http://markorodriguez.com
>
>