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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr> on 2021/05/07 20:39:29 UTC
OOo:eo Localization page
As I could see in "http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html"
<http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html> that help is
wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
is outdated, I went to page "http://www.openoffice.org/eo/". But ...
1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
left, but the text is full width;
2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
<http://vikio.ikso.net/Projektoj/Komputeko>", that is broken ;
3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
<ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
"localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
need data from Apache)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is the mail system at host mwinf5d14.orange.fr.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients.
The mail system
<ti...@openoffice.org> <ma...@openoffice.org>: delivery to host openoffice.org[failed] timed out
Sujet : paĝo "http://www.openoffice.org/eo/"
De : François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
Date : 04/05/2021 à 18:40
Pour : timsk@openoffice.org
1 Mi vidas plenpaÄa [plenpaĝan] tekston. Do mi ne povas trovi ligojn
"en la kadro maldekstre". Äu [Ĉu] vi volas ekrankopion?
2 La ligo en "vidu la projekton Komputeko
<http://vikio.ikso.net/Projektoj/Komputeko>" estas rompita.
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 12.05.21 um 20:38 schrieb Marcus:
> I would say, let's going on in the mail thread in @L10n. Otherwise it's
> just double postings. ;-)
in the meantime the webpages have been updated and are available:
https://www.openoffice.org/eo/
Please have a look what you want to translate. Then I can help you. :-)
Thanks
Marcus
> Am 12.05.21 um 11:33 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> I have updated the "main" page for the Esperanto (EO) language. The
>> html code is available at https://justpaste.it/8yuud for upload.
>>
>> The pages have mostly been translated using translate.yandex.com with
>> help from en.bab.la/dictionary/english-esperanto/ for the remaining few.
>>
>> This will still point to the english version of the downloads page, as
>> the Esperanto version has been relocated for housekeeping purposes.
>>
>> If someone could upload this, I can make sure that it looks as it
>> should when sitting in the correct location.
>>
>> As a final check I can translate it back to English, to ensure that
>> the meaning has not changed significantly.
>>
>>
>> I was not sure how the language detection in the page operates, but I
>> set the variable for language to "eo" on line 271, is that sufficient?
>> 🙂
>>
>> The original was based from the English (en-GB) version found from
>> www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft<http://www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft>
>> and clicking on "This site is also available in English (en-GB). Just
>> click this text to get redirected.". The soft redirect message appears
>> when changing from another language back to English.
>> ________________________________
>> From: Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 1:23 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>
>> Thank for the link, Marcus!
>>
>> Yes, as long as the visitors are informed they can help with
>> localization, keeping the website up to date by removing from sight the
>> bits that are unmaintained is an appropriate QA step.
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>> 2021-05-11 14:01, Marcus rašė:
>>> Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
>>>> On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
>>>>
>>>> One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to
>>>> determine what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
>>>>
>>>> 1. incomplete page translation;
>>>> 2. outdated page layout/design.
>>>
>>> the criteria are summarized here:
>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DEnEpvYDuzBAw0qhtWplPWqHwMSd8p56Btwk6S0bDXI%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>> Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria.
>>>> The visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would
>>>> instead be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help
>>>> translating this page into your native language, let us know!"
>>>
>>> This is already done in a slightly different way:
>>> - Pages have English text
>>> - A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
>>> - No redirection to the main page
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
>>>>> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages
>>>>>> are 'not maintained'?
>>>>>
>>>>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total
>>>>> amount of words or sentences.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>>>>>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>>>>>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>>>>>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>>>>>
>>>>> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
>>>>> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
>>>>> webpages or documentation in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or
>>>>> others. But I know Google Translate and its quality is ...
>>>>> improvable. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>>>>>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>>>>>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>>>>>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>>>>>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people
>>>>>> to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native
>>>>>> language speakers to modify pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There
>>>>> are no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part
>>>>> of it and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you
>>>>> can see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how
>>>>> and where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these
>>>>> pages. The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean
>>>>> the project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one
>>>>> language.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the
>>>>> value-add is very low as the very most pages are for languages that
>>>>> aren't really widespread by its nature.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BtqwcTVfcEGIVmui7bOAfLLCc9WWFWNXaCc4URyYvQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>>>>>> service?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the effort would be much too high.
>>>>>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>>>>>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>>>>>> dozens more I would guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Esperanto is still there:
>>>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EQrYCqhjb88mNltBKtkcP2UaXckdp3gzr%2FYHTKNl5Y0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>;
>>>>>>> François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>>>>>> As I could see in
>>>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that help is
>>>>>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cOgKtxGtwFxwoKijCm6LN1oHoX%2Bx1nzdPKBs7v4c81Q%3D&reserved=0".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>>>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>>>>>> screenshot?).
>>>>>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj
>>>>>>>> al paĝoj
>>>>>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mZsVKqiAa8AO5n0i%2BZGsP6kduEQGX%2FRLWKT03eu7XzA%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La
>>>>>>>> Esperantiga Skipo
>>>>>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the
>>>>>>>> message below).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>>>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>>>>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted.
>>>>>>> Esperanto
>>>>>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> in the next days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information
>>>>>>> - but
>>>>>>> not with translating the text.
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Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
I would say, let's going on in the mail thread in @L10n. Otherwise it's
just double postings. ;-)
Marcus
Am 12.05.21 um 11:33 schrieb Dean.Webber:
> I have updated the "main" page for the Esperanto (EO) language. The html code is available at https://justpaste.it/8yuud for upload.
>
> The pages have mostly been translated using translate.yandex.com with help from en.bab.la/dictionary/english-esperanto/ for the remaining few.
>
> This will still point to the english version of the downloads page, as the Esperanto version has been relocated for housekeeping purposes.
>
> If someone could upload this, I can make sure that it looks as it should when sitting in the correct location.
>
> As a final check I can translate it back to English, to ensure that the meaning has not changed significantly.
>
>
> I was not sure how the language detection in the page operates, but I set the variable for language to "eo" on line 271, is that sufficient?
> 🙂
>
> The original was based from the English (en-GB) version found from www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft<http://www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft> and clicking on "This site is also available in English (en-GB). Just click this text to get redirected.". The soft redirect message appears when changing from another language back to English.
> ________________________________
> From: Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 1:23 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Thank for the link, Marcus!
>
> Yes, as long as the visitors are informed they can help with
> localization, keeping the website up to date by removing from sight the
> bits that are unmaintained is an appropriate QA step.
>
> Aivaras
>
> 2021-05-11 14:01, Marcus rašė:
>> Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
>>> On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
>>>
>>> One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to
>>> determine what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
>>>
>>> 1. incomplete page translation;
>>> 2. outdated page layout/design.
>>
>> the criteria are summarized here:
>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DEnEpvYDuzBAw0qhtWplPWqHwMSd8p56Btwk6S0bDXI%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>> Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria.
>>> The visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would
>>> instead be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help
>>> translating this page into your native language, let us know!"
>>
>> This is already done in a slightly different way:
>> - Pages have English text
>> - A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
>> - No redirection to the main page
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
>>>> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages
>>>>> are 'not maintained'?
>>>>
>>>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total
>>>> amount of words or sentences.
>>>>
>>>>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>>>>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>>>>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>>>>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>>>>
>>>> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
>>>> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
>>>> webpages or documentation in general.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or
>>>> others. But I know Google Translate and its quality is ...
>>>> improvable. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>>>>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>>>>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>>>>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>>>>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>>>>
>>>>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people
>>>>> to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native
>>>>> language speakers to modify pages.
>>>>
>>>> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There
>>>> are no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part
>>>> of it and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>>>>
>>>> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you
>>>> can see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how
>>>> and where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these
>>>> pages. The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean
>>>> the project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the
>>>> value-add is very low as the very most pages are for languages that
>>>> aren't really widespread by its nature.
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BtqwcTVfcEGIVmui7bOAfLLCc9WWFWNXaCc4URyYvQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>>>>> service?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> the effort would be much too high.
>>>>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language
>>>>> that
>>>>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>>>>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>>>>> dozens more I would guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Esperanto is still there:
>>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EQrYCqhjb88mNltBKtkcP2UaXckdp3gzr%2FYHTKNl5Y0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>;
>>>>>> François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>>>>> As I could see in
>>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>> that help is
>>>>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cOgKtxGtwFxwoKijCm6LN1oHoX%2Bx1nzdPKBs7v4c81Q%3D&reserved=0".
>>>>>>> But ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>>>>> screenshot?).
>>>>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj
>>>>>>> al paĝoj
>>>>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mZsVKqiAa8AO5n0i%2BZGsP6kduEQGX%2FRLWKT03eu7XzA%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La
>>>>>>> Esperantiga Skipo
>>>>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the
>>>>>>> message below).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>>>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted.
>>>>>> Esperanto
>>>>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> in the next days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information
>>>>>> - but
>>>>>> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by "Dean.Webber" <20...@student.sit.ac.nz>.
I have updated the "main" page for the Esperanto (EO) language. The html code is available at https://justpaste.it/8yuud for upload.
The pages have mostly been translated using translate.yandex.com with help from en.bab.la/dictionary/english-esperanto/ for the remaining few.
This will still point to the english version of the downloads page, as the Esperanto version has been relocated for housekeeping purposes.
If someone could upload this, I can make sure that it looks as it should when sitting in the correct location.
As a final check I can translate it back to English, to ensure that the meaning has not changed significantly.
I was not sure how the language detection in the page operates, but I set the variable for language to "eo" on line 271, is that sufficient?
🙂
The original was based from the English (en-GB) version found from www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft<http://www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft> and clicking on "This site is also available in English (en-GB). Just click this text to get redirected.". The soft redirect message appears when changing from another language back to English.
________________________________
From: Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 1:23 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Thank for the link, Marcus!
Yes, as long as the visitors are informed they can help with
localization, keeping the website up to date by removing from sight the
bits that are unmaintained is an appropriate QA step.
Aivaras
2021-05-11 14:01, Marcus rašė:
> Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
>> On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
>>
>> One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to
>> determine what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
>>
>> 1. incomplete page translation;
>> 2. outdated page layout/design.
>
> the criteria are summarized here:
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DEnEpvYDuzBAw0qhtWplPWqHwMSd8p56Btwk6S0bDXI%3D&reserved=0
>
>> Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria.
>> The visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would
>> instead be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help
>> translating this page into your native language, let us know!"
>
> This is already done in a slightly different way:
> - Pages have English text
> - A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
> - No redirection to the main page
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> 2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
>>> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages
>>>> are 'not maintained'?
>>>
>>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total
>>> amount of words or sentences.
>>>
>>>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>>>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>>>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>>>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>>>
>>> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
>>> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
>>> webpages or documentation in general.
>>>
>>> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or
>>> others. But I know Google Translate and its quality is ...
>>> improvable. ;-)
>>>
>>>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>>>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>>>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>>>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>>>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>>>
>>>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people
>>>> to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native
>>>> language speakers to modify pages.
>>>
>>> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There
>>> are no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part
>>> of it and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>>>
>>> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you
>>> can see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how
>>> and where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats
>>> all.
>>>
>>>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>>>
>>> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these
>>> pages. The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean
>>> the project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one
>>> language.
>>>
>>> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the
>>> value-add is very low as the very most pages are for languages that
>>> aren't really widespread by its nature.
>>>
>>> [1] https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BtqwcTVfcEGIVmui7bOAfLLCc9WWFWNXaCc4URyYvQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>
>>>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>>>> service?
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> the effort would be much too high.
>>>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language
>>>> that
>>>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>>>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>>>> dozens more I would guess.
>>>>
>>>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Esperanto is still there:
>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EQrYCqhjb88mNltBKtkcP2UaXckdp3gzr%2FYHTKNl5Y0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>;
>>>>> François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>>>> As I could see in
>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> that help is
>>>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>>>> availability
>>>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cOgKtxGtwFxwoKijCm6LN1oHoX%2Bx1nzdPKBs7v4c81Q%3D&reserved=0".
>>>>>> But ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>>>> screenshot?).
>>>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj
>>>>>> al paĝoj
>>>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mZsVKqiAa8AO5n0i%2BZGsP6kduEQGX%2FRLWKT03eu7XzA%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La
>>>>>> Esperantiga Skipo
>>>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the
>>>>>> message below).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>>>
>>>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted.
>>>>> Esperanto
>>>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete
>>>>> this
>>>>> in the next days.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again,
>>>>> then
>>>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information
>>>>> - but
>>>>> not with translating the text.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Thank for the link, Marcus!
Yes, as long as the visitors are informed they can help with
localization, keeping the website up to date by removing from sight the
bits that are unmaintained is an appropriate QA step.
Aivaras
2021-05-11 14:01, Marcus rašė:
> Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
>> On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
>>
>> One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to
>> determine what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
>>
>> 1. incomplete page translation;
>> 2. outdated page layout/design.
>
> the criteria are summarized here:
> https://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html
>
>> Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria.
>> The visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would
>> instead be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help
>> translating this page into your native language, let us know!"
>
> This is already done in a slightly different way:
> - Pages have English text
> - A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
> - No redirection to the main page
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> 2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
>>> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages
>>>> are 'not maintained'?
>>>
>>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total
>>> amount of words or sentences.
>>>
>>>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>>>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>>>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>>>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>>>
>>> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
>>> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
>>> webpages or documentation in general.
>>>
>>> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or
>>> others. But I know Google Translate and its quality is ...
>>> improvable. ;-)
>>>
>>>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>>>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>>>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>>>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>>>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>>>
>>>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people
>>>> to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native
>>>> language speakers to modify pages.
>>>
>>> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There
>>> are no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part
>>> of it and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>>>
>>> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you
>>> can see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how
>>> and where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats
>>> all.
>>>
>>>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>>>
>>> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these
>>> pages. The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean
>>> the project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one
>>> language.
>>>
>>> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the
>>> value-add is very low as the very most pages are for languages that
>>> aren't really widespread by its nature.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.openoffice.org/ast/
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>
>>>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>>>> service?
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> the effort would be much too high.
>>>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language
>>>> that
>>>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>>>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>>>> dozens more I would guess.
>>>>
>>>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Esperanto is still there:
>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BhLPGbJot2CX%2BDOviz3TkeReTr3UgxDocVGTjsMvR0Q%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>;
>>>>> François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>>>> As I could see in
>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pJ%2Fzi6fJivtnkFPBPYrtdlNtfSivxyr0M6KQ8Tg4YKo%3D&reserved=0"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FZpWgwYozi1LyOz8AS6Vf%2Ft6N1edXJMgwakVBFNmt0o%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> that help is
>>>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>>>> availability
>>>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Le2W6lmXOMPcbVFm4PyTCdFCHKoB6lUlACKgxdNY%2B%2FM%3D&reserved=0".
>>>>>> But ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>>>> screenshot?).
>>>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj
>>>>>> al paĝoj
>>>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=niJooXoFp0jBrR06RIt%2FsXyuRzKv6MFQmdQ9knnxRRs%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La
>>>>>> Esperantiga Skipo
>>>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the
>>>>>> message below).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>>>
>>>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted.
>>>>> Esperanto
>>>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete
>>>>> this
>>>>> in the next days.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again,
>>>>> then
>>>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information
>>>>> - but
>>>>> not with translating the text.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
> On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
>
> One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to determine
> what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
>
> 1. incomplete page translation;
> 2. outdated page layout/design.
the criteria are summarized here:
https://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html
> Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria. The
> visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would instead
> be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help translating
> this page into your native language, let us know!"
This is already done in a slightly different way:
- Pages have English text
- A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
- No redirection to the main page
Marcus
> 2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
>> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are
>>> 'not maintained'?
>>
>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount
>> of words or sentences.
>>
>>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>>
>> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
>> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
>> webpages or documentation in general.
>>
>> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or others.
>> But I know Google Translate and its quality is ... improvable. ;-)
>>
>>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>>
>>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to
>>> get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language
>>> speakers to modify pages.
>>
>> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There are
>> no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part of it
>> and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>>
>> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you can
>> see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how and
>> where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats all.
>>
>>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>>
>> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these pages.
>> The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean the
>> project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one language.
>>
>> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the value-add
>> is very low as the very most pages are for languages that aren't
>> really widespread by its nature.
>>
>> [1] https://www.openoffice.org/ast/
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>
>>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>>> service?
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> the effort would be much too high.
>>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
>>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>>> dozens more I would guess.
>>>
>>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>>
>>> Esperanto is still there:
>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BhLPGbJot2CX%2BDOviz3TkeReTr3UgxDocVGTjsMvR0Q%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François
>>>> Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>>> As I could see in
>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pJ%2Fzi6fJivtnkFPBPYrtdlNtfSivxyr0M6KQ8Tg4YKo%3D&reserved=0"
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FZpWgwYozi1LyOz8AS6Vf%2Ft6N1edXJMgwakVBFNmt0o%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> that help is
>>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>>> availability
>>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Le2W6lmXOMPcbVFm4PyTCdFCHKoB6lUlACKgxdNY%2B%2FM%3D&reserved=0".
>>>>> But ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>>> screenshot?).
>>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al
>>>>> paĝoj
>>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=niJooXoFp0jBrR06RIt%2FsXyuRzKv6MFQmdQ9knnxRRs%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>>
>>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga
>>>>> Skipo
>>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message
>>>>> below).
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>>> would
>>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>>
>>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
>>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
>>>> in the next days.
>>>>
>>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
>>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information -
>>>> but
>>>> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to determine
what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
1. incomplete page translation;
2. outdated page layout/design.
Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria. The
visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would instead
be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help translating
this page into your native language, let us know!"
As for automated translation services, they're already available
externally, no need to internalize them and bear the costs.
Regards,
Aivaras
2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are
>> 'not maintained'?
>
> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount
> of words or sentences.
>
>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
>> service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
>> translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
>> translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>
> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
> webpages or documentation in general.
>
> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or others.
> But I know Google Translate and its quality is ... improvable. ;-)
>
>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
>> are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
>> too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
>> translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
>> convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>
>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to
>> get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language
>> speakers to modify pages.
>
> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There are
> no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part of it
> and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>
> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you can
> see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how and
> where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats all.
>
>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>
> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these pages.
> The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean the
> project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one language.
>
> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the value-add
> is very low as the very most pages are for languages that aren't
> really widespread by its nature.
>
> [1] https://www.openoffice.org/ast/
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>
>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
>>> service?
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> the effort would be much too high.
>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>> dozens more I would guess.
>>
>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>
>> Esperanto is still there:
>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BhLPGbJot2CX%2BDOviz3TkeReTr3UgxDocVGTjsMvR0Q%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François
>>> Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>> As I could see in
>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pJ%2Fzi6fJivtnkFPBPYrtdlNtfSivxyr0M6KQ8Tg4YKo%3D&reserved=0"
>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FZpWgwYozi1LyOz8AS6Vf%2Ft6N1edXJMgwakVBFNmt0o%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> that help is
>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
>>>> availability
>>>> is outdated, I went to page
>>>> "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Le2W6lmXOMPcbVFm4PyTCdFCHKoB6lUlACKgxdNY%2B%2FM%3D&reserved=0".
>>>> But ...
>>>>
>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
>>>> screenshot?).
>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al
>>>> paĝoj
>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>
>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=niJooXoFp0jBrR06RIt%2FsXyuRzKv6MFQmdQ9knnxRRs%3D&reserved=0>",
>>>> that is broken ;
>>>>
>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga
>>>> Skipo
>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message
>>>> below).
>>>>
>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>
>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
>>>> would
>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>
>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
>>> in the next days.
>>>
>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information -
>>> but
>>> not with translating the text.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 11.05.21 um 01:49 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
>
>> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount of words or sentences.
>
> Link to the default set please, in english, are we talking https://www.openoffice.org
https://www.openoffice.org/xx/
Please have a look for its sub-pages that can be reached via the big
links in the middle ("I want to learn more ..." and the others).
> Perhaps, I can try to do the OOo:eo and see what happens?
>
> Then for the rest, are we talking https://www.openoffice.org/xyz/ ?
>
> Will this be done via Pootle, https://translate.apache.org/projects/aoo40/ or just through the localization mailing list.
The strings are stored either in the HTML page itself or - when its more
about download and/or a dynamic part is needed - separately in a
"msg_prop_l10n_<language-code>.js" file.
Marcus
> ________________________________
> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 11:07 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
>
> the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount of
> words or sentences.
>
>> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate service (which will have some cost attached). For example to translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
>
> Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
> volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
> webpages or documentation in general.
>
> I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or others.
> But I know Google Translate and its quality is ... improvable. ;-)
>
>> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose too, they can spend some time working on localizations or translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to convert from the sources to the localization language.
>>
>> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language speakers to modify pages.
>
> As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There are no
> volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part of it and
> then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
>
> Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you can
> see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how and where
> to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats all.
>
>> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
>
> The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these pages.
> The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean the project
> people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one language.
>
> I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the value-add
> is very low as the very most pages are for languages that aren't really
> widespread by its nature.
>
> [1] https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714527198%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fT8dm2ekGZAYKjrWjN69%2FA37IL1MuFpkvbcR2umIeOw%3D&reserved=0
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>
>> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> the effort would be much too high.
>> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
>> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
>> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
>> dozens more I would guess.
>>
>> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>>
>> Esperanto is still there:
>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mrxOb%2F4gLidto3O3aLkxUVzQGfai43tJ4BXMTheHm5c%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>>> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=p8EtGIFpXeNjDNmzl91TnWNKUVYw29Tumvv%2Fv3QSK5U%3D&reserved=0"
>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=p8EtGIFpXeNjDNmzl91TnWNKUVYw29Tumvv%2Fv3QSK5U%3D&reserved=0> that help is
>>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
>>>> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714537184%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MPvP%2FGz12iKTTiLnYcD4AZQWEIDy%2B%2Bw%2BGi6l8IKCwP4%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>>>>
>>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
>>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
>>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>>
>>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714537184%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CKgDZC93c0XDI7ydWZQY6XqX8c7bkCHGSomOa8V9kVo%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>>>>
>>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
>>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>>>>
>>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>>>>
>>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
>>>> need data from Apache)?
>>>
>>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
>>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
>>> in the next days.
>>>
>>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
>>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
>>> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by "Dean.Webber" <20...@student.sit.ac.nz>.
> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
>the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount of words or sentences.
Link to the default set please, in english, are we talking https://www.openoffice.org
Perhaps, I can try to do the OOo:eo and see what happens?
Then for the rest, are we talking https://www.openoffice.org/xyz/ ?
Will this be done via Pootle, https://translate.apache.org/projects/aoo40/ or just through the localization mailing list.
Thanks,
Dean
________________________________
From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 11:07 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount of
words or sentences.
> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate service (which will have some cost attached). For example to translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
webpages or documentation in general.
I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or others.
But I know Google Translate and its quality is ... improvable. ;-)
> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose too, they can spend some time working on localizations or translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to convert from the sources to the localization language.
>
> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language speakers to modify pages.
As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There are no
volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part of it and
then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you can
see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how and where
to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats all.
> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these pages.
The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean the project
people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one language.
I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the value-add
is very low as the very most pages are for languages that aren't really
widespread by its nature.
[1] https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714527198%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fT8dm2ekGZAYKjrWjN69%2FA37IL1MuFpkvbcR2umIeOw%3D&reserved=0
Marcus
> ________________________________
> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
>>
>> [...]
>
> the effort would be much too high.
> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
> dozens more I would guess.
>
> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>
> Esperanto is still there:
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mrxOb%2F4gLidto3O3aLkxUVzQGfai43tJ4BXMTheHm5c%3D&reserved=0
>
> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>
>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=p8EtGIFpXeNjDNmzl91TnWNKUVYw29Tumvv%2Fv3QSK5U%3D&reserved=0"
>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714532187%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=p8EtGIFpXeNjDNmzl91TnWNKUVYw29Tumvv%2Fv3QSK5U%3D&reserved=0> that help is
>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
>>> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714537184%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MPvP%2FGz12iKTTiLnYcD4AZQWEIDy%2B%2Bw%2BGi6l8IKCwP4%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>>>
>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>
>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7Cf44721a3d4fd46774bbf08d914086d03%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562848714537184%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CKgDZC93c0XDI7ydWZQY6XqX8c7bkCHGSomOa8V9kVo%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>>>
>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>>>
>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>>>
>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
>>> need data from Apache)?
>>
>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
>> in the next days.
>>
>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
>> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
> How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total amount of
words or sentences.
> Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate service (which will have some cost attached). For example to translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
webpages or documentation in general.
I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or others.
But I know Google Translate and its quality is ... improvable. ;-)
> Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose too, they can spend some time working on localizations or translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to convert from the sources to the localization language.
>
> This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language speakers to modify pages.
As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There are no
volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part of it and
then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you can
see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how and where
to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats all.
> But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these pages.
The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean the project
people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one language.
I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the value-add
is very low as the very most pages are for languages that aren't really
widespread by its nature.
[1] https://www.openoffice.org/ast/
Marcus
> ________________________________
> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
>> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
>>
>> [...]
>
> the effort would be much too high.
> It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
> is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
> languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
> dozens more I would guess.
>
> So, who should do this work? ;-)
>
> Esperanto is still there:
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BhLPGbJot2CX%2BDOviz3TkeReTr3UgxDocVGTjsMvR0Q%3D&reserved=0
>
> If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
>> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
>> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>>
>> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>>> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pJ%2Fzi6fJivtnkFPBPYrtdlNtfSivxyr0M6KQ8Tg4YKo%3D&reserved=0"
>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FZpWgwYozi1LyOz8AS6Vf%2Ft6N1edXJMgwakVBFNmt0o%3D&reserved=0> that help is
>>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
>>> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Le2W6lmXOMPcbVFm4PyTCdFCHKoB6lUlACKgxdNY%2B%2FM%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>>>
>>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
>>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
>>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>>> left, but the text is full width;
>>>
>>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=niJooXoFp0jBrR06RIt%2FsXyuRzKv6MFQmdQ9knnxRRs%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>>>
>>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
>>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>>>
>>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>>>
>>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
>>> need data from Apache)?
>>
>> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
>> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
>> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
>> in the next days.
>>
>> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
>> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
>> not with translating the text.
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Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by "Dean.Webber" <20...@student.sit.ac.nz>.
How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages are 'not maintained'?
Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate service (which will have some cost attached). For example to translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose too, they can spend some time working on localizations or translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to convert from the sources to the localization language.
This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native language speakers to modify pages.
But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
Else;
Some of you out there with big brains can have a look into the available machine learning programs for language translation...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_machine_translation_applications
Some of which... are very powerful 🙂
________________________________
From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
>
> [...]
the effort would be much too high.
It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
dozens more I would guess.
So, who should do this work? ;-)
Esperanto is still there:
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BhLPGbJot2CX%2BDOviz3TkeReTr3UgxDocVGTjsMvR0Q%3D&reserved=0
If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
Marcus
> ________________________________
> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049152421%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pJ%2Fzi6fJivtnkFPBPYrtdlNtfSivxyr0M6KQ8Tg4YKo%3D&reserved=0"
>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FZpWgwYozi1LyOz8AS6Vf%2Ft6N1edXJMgwakVBFNmt0o%3D&reserved=0> that help is
>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
>> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Le2W6lmXOMPcbVFm4PyTCdFCHKoB6lUlACKgxdNY%2B%2FM%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>>
>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>> left, but the text is full width;
>>
>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C19720c7995254940a5e208d913dfc285%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637562674049157414%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=niJooXoFp0jBrR06RIt%2FsXyuRzKv6MFQmdQ9knnxRRs%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>>
>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>>
>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>>
>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
>> need data from Apache)?
>
> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
> in the next days.
>
> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
> Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
>
> [...]
the effort would be much too high.
It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language that
is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
dozens more I would guess.
So, who should do this work? ;-)
Esperanto is still there:
https://www.openoffice.org/eo/
If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
Marcus
> ________________________________
> From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
> Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
> Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
>
> Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
>> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ughYqFvGH9rQpi3x6r%2FtukrU8fFM1Nn9%2B3iSaEcJ%2BNI%3D&reserved=0"
>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ughYqFvGH9rQpi3x6r%2FtukrU8fFM1Nn9%2B3iSaEcJ%2BNI%3D&reserved=0> that help is
>> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
>> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rvESlCUQMn2gj32F8YPZ2ntrJeCfzLF0cO%2FgQioMWJw%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>>
>> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
>> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
>> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
>> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
>> left, but the text is full width;
>>
>> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
>> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193127581%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=x6sWtG26fKQaiwQjnus4n4WSlhi%2FpcNA2%2F7k9GFVoy0%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>>
>> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
>> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>>
>> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
>> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>>
>> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
>> need data from Apache)?
>
> at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
> therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
> is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
> in the next days.
>
> However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
> just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
> not with translating the text.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by "Dean.Webber" <20...@student.sit.ac.nz>.
Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate service?
Or is it possible to run the source page through a translation service, so the pages remain "updated" for ones that are not maintained.
Then ones that are maintained perhaps will not need this treatment, or perhaps if a good enough translation service is used, it could be done in all instances?
Perhaps instead of deleting them they could be turned off somehow, and perhaps just redirected to another page... or a translate service to translate into the right language.
I have just used Online site translation into English and other languages – Yandex.Translate<https://translate.yandex.com/translate> and it quite happily translated Esperanto into English. See here (https://docdro.id/8VFffjK - Yandex.Translate - AOO Esperanto.pdf )
🙂
________________________________
From: Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>
Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <de...@openoffice.apache.org>; François Coulmeau <fr...@wanadoo.fr>
Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <em...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
> As I could see in "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ughYqFvGH9rQpi3x6r%2FtukrU8fFM1Nn9%2B3iSaEcJ%2BNI%3D&reserved=0"
> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ughYqFvGH9rQpi3x6r%2FtukrU8fFM1Nn9%2B3iSaEcJ%2BNI%3D&reserved=0> that help is
> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
> is outdated, I went to page "https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193122594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rvESlCUQMn2gj32F8YPZ2ntrJeCfzLF0cO%2FgQioMWJw%3D&reserved=0". But ...
>
> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
> left, but the text is full width;
>
> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
> <https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C23f90fb51b234c5c426708d911a5d2fe%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C0%7C637560226193127581%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=x6sWtG26fKQaiwQjnus4n4WSlhi%2FpcNA2%2F7k9GFVoy0%3D&reserved=0>", that is broken ;
>
> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>
> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>
> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
> need data from Apache)?
at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
in the next days.
However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
not with translating the text.
Thanks
Marcus
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
> As I could see in "http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html"
> <http://www.openoffice.org/projects/native-lang.html> that help is
> wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice availability
> is outdated, I went to page "http://www.openoffice.org/eo/". But ...
>
> 1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
> ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a screenshot?).
> The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj al paĝoj
> de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on the
> left, but the text is full width;
>
> 2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
> <http://vikio.ikso.net/Projektoj/Komputeko>", that is broken ;
>
> 3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La Esperantiga Skipo
> <ma...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the message below).
>
> Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
> "localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!) OpenOffice?
>
> Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they would
> need data from Apache)?
at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted. Esperanto
is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete this
in the next days.
However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again, then
just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information - but
not with translating the text.
Thanks
Marcus
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
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