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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> on 2012/09/15 09:42:13 UTC
Moderating ooo-private
Many user enquiries come to ooo-private and are moderated through. They
shouldn't be. That list should have almost zero traffic.
Users are finding the list somehow, seems the documentation needs fixing.
For those that do find their way through consider rejecting them with a
boiler plate response directing to correct support channels.
Sent from my tablet
On Sep 15, 2012 4:37 AM, "Kirk Fraser" <ov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> As a frequent contributor to a regional newspaper, I want to be able to
> import these .PDF documents so I can do searches for specific words to find
> what they say on issues of interest.
>
> http://www.gop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012GOPPlatform.pdf
> http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf
>
> Yet when I tried, the import failed to capture and display the text seen
> in an Adobe reader. So tell me, when will Open Office be able to import
> .PDF files like these?
>
> Thanks,
> Kirk W. Fraser
>
>
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi
On 12-09-15, at 21:17 , tj <tj...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 9/15/2012 17:51, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>>
>> On 12-09-15, at 11:34 , "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> With regard to inappropriate messages to ooo-private, I agree that it is a good idea to provide better information and to discourage the use of ooo-private for this kind of traffic. I think one problem is that some folks want their request to be personal and all think they are (or want to be) reaching a support organization.
>>
>> yes.
>>>
>>> I conducted an experiment to see how the list rejects messages. The bounce I received is the message immediately below. The original request to ooo-private was returned in an attachment. That is attached to this message but I don't know that it will be preserved on ooo-dev. What that message is like is posted below the Rejection Message.
>>
>> Peter can probably speak to this, too, but when I was doing this kind of list and many others at OOo, I received routinely a lot of posts to webmasters@, usually by people wanting to communicate with a Turing-competent entity, like me, or even better. They reached that list/alias via contacts@. No matter what we wrote on that page, no matter how they were redirected to the Support page—no matter what, short of Moses and some tablets—they did what I do when confronted with voicemail and sought humanity in an electron.
>>
>> So it goes.
>>
>> Lesson: live with it but try all the same.
>>
>> Louis
>
> Hi, Louis,
>
> IIRC, I wrote to Webmaster@oo.o, about a glitch on a web page. I got a polite little reply from a fellow whose name I recognized from the Council listing. I was just another user, then; I was very impressed. My point is that these contacts do serve a purpose, at least occasionally.
was probably me or possibly John or Florian… Sophie also did a lot of work there.
>
> Hope this makes our hard-working monitors feel better.
>
Thanks. It does :-)
Louis
> /tj/
>
>
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by tj <tj...@apache.org>.
On 9/15/2012 17:51, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>
> On 12-09-15, at 11:34 , "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> With regard to inappropriate messages to ooo-private, I agree that it is a good idea to provide better information and to discourage the use of ooo-private for this kind of traffic. I think one problem is that some folks want their request to be personal and all think they are (or want to be) reaching a support organization.
>
> yes.
>>
>> I conducted an experiment to see how the list rejects messages. The bounce I received is the message immediately below. The original request to ooo-private was returned in an attachment. That is attached to this message but I don't know that it will be preserved on ooo-dev. What that message is like is posted below the Rejection Message.
>
> Peter can probably speak to this, too, but when I was doing this kind of list and many others at OOo, I received routinely a lot of posts to webmasters@, usually by people wanting to communicate with a Turing-competent entity, like me, or even better. They reached that list/alias via contacts@. No matter what we wrote on that page, no matter how they were redirected to the Support page—no matter what, short of Moses and some tablets—they did what I do when confronted with voicemail and sought humanity in an electron.
>
> So it goes.
>
> Lesson: live with it but try all the same.
>
> Louis
Hi, Louis,
IIRC, I wrote to Webmaster@oo.o, about a glitch on a web page. I got a
polite little reply from a fellow whose name I recognized from the
Council listing. I was just another user, then; I was very impressed. My
point is that these contacts do serve a purpose, at least occasionally.
Hope this makes our hard-working monitors feel better.
/tj/
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
On 12-09-15, at 11:34 , "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> With regard to inappropriate messages to ooo-private, I agree that it is a good idea to provide better information and to discourage the use of ooo-private for this kind of traffic. I think one problem is that some folks want their request to be personal and all think they are (or want to be) reaching a support organization.
yes.
>
> I conducted an experiment to see how the list rejects messages. The bounce I received is the message immediately below. The original request to ooo-private was returned in an attachment. That is attached to this message but I don't know that it will be preserved on ooo-dev. What that message is like is posted below the Rejection Message.
Peter can probably speak to this, too, but when I was doing this kind of list and many others at OOo, I received routinely a lot of posts to webmasters@, usually by people wanting to communicate with a Turing-competent entity, like me, or even better. They reached that list/alias via contacts@. No matter what we wrote on that page, no matter how they were redirected to the Support page—no matter what, short of Moses and some tablets—they did what I do when confronted with voicemail and sought humanity in an electron.
So it goes.
Lesson: live with it but try all the same.
Louis
>
> - Dennis
>
>
> -----Rejection Message-----
> From: ooo-private-owner@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ooo-private-owner@incubator.apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 08:20
> To: himself@orcmid.com
> Subject: Returned post for ooo-private@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
> ooo-private@incubator.apache.org mailing list.
>
> I'm sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
> If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.
>
>>>>>> -------------------- >>>>>
> This is a test rejection message from the ooo-private list robot. This comment is supplied by the moderator.
> The purpose of this test is to determine how useful reject messages or a replacement boilerplate could be helpful in directing users with problems to an appropriate place where they are likely to receive assistance.
> <<<<< -------------------- <<<<<
>
>
> -----Rejected Message-----
> From: himself@orcmid.com [mailto:himself@orcmid.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 08:03
> To: OOo-private Apache Incubator
> Subject: PLEASE REJECT THIS MESSAGE
>
> Sorry about that. I did not realize that orcmid@msn.com was listed as subscribed. Trying again.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orcmid@msn.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 07:57
> To: OOo-private Apache Incubator
> Subject: PLEASE REJECT THIS MESSAGE
>
> This is a test request form an unsubscribed user. It is being submitted to see how useful rejection messages are. Please reject this message. Please use the %%% markers and add a statement to the rejection message.
>
> - Dennis (orcmid@apache.org)
>
>
> <Mail Attachment.eml>
RE: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
With regard to inappropriate messages to ooo-private, I agree that it is a good idea to provide better information and to discourage the use of ooo-private for this kind of traffic. I think one problem is that some folks want their request to be personal and all think they are (or want to be) reaching a support organization.
I conducted an experiment to see how the list rejects messages. The bounce I received is the message immediately below. The original request to ooo-private was returned in an attachment. That is attached to this message but I don't know that it will be preserved on ooo-dev. What that message is like is posted below the Rejection Message.
- Dennis
-----Rejection Message-----
From: ooo-private-owner@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ooo-private-owner@incubator.apache.org]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 08:20
To: himself@orcmid.com
Subject: Returned post for ooo-private@incubator.apache.org
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
ooo-private@incubator.apache.org mailing list.
I'm sorry, your message (enclosed) was not accepted by the moderator.
If the moderator has made any comments, they are shown below.
>>>>> -------------------- >>>>>
This is a test rejection message from the ooo-private list robot. This comment is supplied by the moderator.
The purpose of this test is to determine how useful reject messages or a replacement boilerplate could be helpful in directing users with problems to an appropriate place where they are likely to receive assistance.
<<<<< -------------------- <<<<<
-----Rejected Message-----
From: himself@orcmid.com [mailto:himself@orcmid.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 08:03
To: OOo-private Apache Incubator
Subject: PLEASE REJECT THIS MESSAGE
Sorry about that. I did not realize that orcmid@msn.com was listed as subscribed. Trying again.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orcmid@msn.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 07:57
To: OOo-private Apache Incubator
Subject: PLEASE REJECT THIS MESSAGE
This is a test request form an unsubscribed user. It is being submitted to see how useful rejection messages are. Please reject this message. Please use the %%% markers and add a statement to the rejection message.
- Dennis (orcmid@apache.org)
RE: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Concerning the use of a boiler-plate rejection message:
I have a concern about forcing users who may already be distressed and agitated to start over. Also there are no "support channels" in the sense that most users will understand that.
As I recall, the reject message that is produced by the list is not so user friendly and that complicates matters. We'll have to look into that.
Finally, this is more work for moderators to avoid multiple responses and to operate consistently no matter which moderator handles the message.
These factors need to be considered somehow.
I'll produce a rejection message so it can be examined and it can be assessed.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 00:42
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Moderating ooo-private
Many user enquiries come to ooo-private and are moderated through. They
shouldn't be. That list should have almost zero traffic.
Users are finding the list somehow, seems the documentation needs fixing.
For those that do find their way through consider rejecting them with a
boiler plate response directing to correct support channels.
Sent from my tablet
On Sep 15, 2012 4:37 AM, "Kirk Fraser" <ov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> As a frequent contributor to a regional newspaper, I want to be able to
> import these .PDF documents so I can do searches for specific words to find
> what they say on issues of interest.
>
> http://www.gop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012GOPPlatform.pdf
> http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf
>
> Yet when I tried, the import failed to capture and display the text seen
> in an Adobe reader. So tell me, when will Open Office be able to import
> .PDF files like these?
>
> Thanks,
> Kirk W. Fraser
>
>
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Ross,
>
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 08:42:13AM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> Many user enquiries come to ooo-private and are moderated through. They
>> shouldn't be. That list should have almost zero traffic.
>>
>> Users are finding the list somehow, seems the documentation needs fixing.
>
> Grep'ing the main site, it seems they come from somewhere else:
Yes. We already considered this and investigated. It is coming from
somewhere else. One thing to try is to ask the user (politely) what
led them to send their note too ooo-private.
>
> ooo-site]$ git grep --line-number "ooo-private@incubator.apache.org"
> content/distribution/index.html:69:contact the <A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
> content/distribution/index.html:84:<P>Please contact the <A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
>
> Only two matches, and in this page, not very accessible.
>
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/15/2012 01:20 PM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile:
> Hi Ross,
>
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 08:42:13AM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> Many user enquiries come to ooo-private and are moderated through. They
>> shouldn't be. That list should have almost zero traffic.
>>
>> Users are finding the list somehow, seems the documentation needs fixing.
>
> Grep'ing the main site, it seems they come from somewhere else:
>
> ooo-site]$ git grep --line-number "ooo-private@incubator.apache.org"
> content/distribution/index.html:69:contact the<A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
> content/distribution/index.html:84:<P>Please contact the<A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
>
> Only two matches, and in this page, not very accessible.
Thanks for your quick search.
I doubt that this could be the reason for the many requests on private@.
Also they are typical enduser/support questions and contain no hint or
pointer to something distribution-specifc.
However, it could be changed to point to ooo-dev@.
Hm, but this wouldn't help for support questions as they should go to
ooo-users@. ;-)
Marcus
Re: Moderating ooo-private
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Ross,
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 08:42:13AM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Many user enquiries come to ooo-private and are moderated through. They
> shouldn't be. That list should have almost zero traffic.
>
> Users are finding the list somehow, seems the documentation needs fixing.
Grep'ing the main site, it seems they come from somewhere else:
ooo-site]$ git grep --line-number "ooo-private@incubator.apache.org"
content/distribution/index.html:69:contact the <A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
content/distribution/index.html:84:<P>Please contact the <A HREF="mailto:ooo-private@incubator.apache.org">Apache
Only two matches, and in this page, not very accessible.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina