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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> on 2007/06/26 01:02:17 UTC
Quick sketch of the dev process
Hi,
As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
a little sketch for perusal:
http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
The proposals are all here:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
view of what's going on
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 25 Jun 07, at 6:55 PM 25 Jun 07, Barrie Treloar wrote:
> Looks good.
>
>> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
>> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
>> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
>> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
>> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
>> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>>
>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>
> Should all committers have write access to this area?
>
Yes, if you don't then that's easily remedied.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Barrie Treloar <ba...@gmail.com>.
Looks good.
> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
Should all committers have write access to this area?
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RE: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by "Brian E. Fox" <br...@reply.infinity.nu>.
I'm coming into the thread late so I see lots of updates already. I
second the suggestion that having two states called "Approved
Proposal(s)" is a little confusing. I think that the move to a
"Completed Proposals" can be used to combine the "Completed" and
"Approved Proposals" because there doesn't seem to be any actual work
between Completed and the move besides the act of performing the move
itself.
Also, is there some need for a state between In Progress and Approved,
where work started but has stopped for some reason? Something like
Partial?
I don't seem to have edit access in this space either.
--Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason van Zyl [mailto:jason@maven.org]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 7:02 PM
To: Maven Developers List
Subject: Quick sketch of the dev process
Hi,
As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
a little sketch for perusal:
http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
The proposals are all here:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
view of what's going on
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 26 Jun 07, at 2:05 PM 26 Jun 07, Patrick Schneider wrote:
>
>>
>> Ok, so the new features start on trunk but the new feature is a
>> branch of trunk. The point being feature additions don't destabilize
>> the trunk. The series of branches associated with issues also
>> provides a clear path of what happened, branches named with something
>> like MNG-123-AndMaybeSomeQuickDescription make it easy to know what
>> it is and to look up the issue. For dead simple fixes things can go
>> into the trunk but anything requiring more then a few hours of work
>> should go into a feature branch of trunk. When it's merged back into
>> trunk, if it's possible it is then merged back into any version
>> branches (like 2.0.x).
>
>
I put that into the document. Sorry for not being more clear.
> Gotcha -- this makes sense now. Guess I just needed it spelled out
> a little
> more explicitly ;o)
>
>>
>> >
>> > Patrick
>> >
>> > On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
>> >> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've
>> whipped up
>> >> a little sketch for perusal:
>> >>
>> >> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>> >>
>> >> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented
>> in the
>> >> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
>> >> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from
>> perfect but
>> >> I think a good starting point and I would like to field
>> feedback so I
>> >> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard
>> where I've
>> >> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>> >>
>> >> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>> >>
>> >> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
>> >> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is
>> not to
>> >> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be
>> able to
>> >> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
>> >> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>> >>
>> >> The proposals are all here:
>> >>
>> >> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>> >>
>> >> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've
>> put
>> >> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
>> simple
>> >> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
>> >> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a
>> clear
>> >> view of what's going on
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Jason
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Jason van Zyl
>> >> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> >> jason at sonatype dot com
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> jason at sonatype dot com
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Patrick Schneider <ps...@gmail.com>.
On 6/26/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 26 Jun 07, at 1:20 PM 26 Jun 07, Patrick Schneider wrote:
>
> > A few things:
> >
> > 1. Can I get edit access? My username is 'pschneider'.
> >
>
> Sure. I'll find all the user names and add them to the group.
>
> > 2. Are there any thoughts re: how pages are parented? I noticed
> > that only
> > the 'Toolchains' proposal is parented by 'All Proposals'. Most of
> > the rest
> > seem to be under 'Maven 2.1 Design Documents'.
>
> I am reshuffling pages around all the time so I've not used the
> lineage, but we start to now that things are gelling.
>
> > It would be nice to see, at
> > a glance, which version these proposals relate to,
>
> Good idea. How's this for a start:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>
> > and an easy way to do
> > that might be to categorize proposals with appropriate parent
> > pages. I
> > think as the list of proposals grows, it's going to be difficult to
> > make
> > sense of this page. This can be addressed later pretty easily I
> > think.
> >
>
> Sure, that sounds like a good idea.
>
> > 3. I'm confused about where in svn new features get implemented.
> > 'Where new
> > development starts' (on
> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Development+Process) says
> > all new
> > features/improvements go into the latest trunk revision. The
> > 'Annotated
> > Development Process' says to "Create a feature/change branch and start
> > working on your code." Which is is?
>
> Ok, so the new features start on trunk but the new feature is a
> branch of trunk. The point being feature additions don't destabilize
> the trunk. The series of branches associated with issues also
> provides a clear path of what happened, branches named with something
> like MNG-123-AndMaybeSomeQuickDescription make it easy to know what
> it is and to look up the issue. For dead simple fixes things can go
> into the trunk but anything requiring more then a few hours of work
> should go into a feature branch of trunk. When it's merged back into
> trunk, if it's possible it is then merged back into any version
> branches (like 2.0.x).
Gotcha -- this makes sense now. Guess I just needed it spelled out a little
more explicitly ;o)
>
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> >> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
> >> a little sketch for perusal:
> >>
> >> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
> >>
> >> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> >> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> >> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> >> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> >> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> >> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
> >>
> >> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> >>
> >> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> >> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> >> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> >> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> >> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
> >>
> >> The proposals are all here:
> >>
> >> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
> >>
> >> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> >> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
> >> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
> >> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
> >> view of what's going on
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Jason
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Jason van Zyl
> >> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> >> jason at sonatype dot com
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 26 Jun 07, at 1:20 PM 26 Jun 07, Patrick Schneider wrote:
> A few things:
>
> 1. Can I get edit access? My username is 'pschneider'.
>
Sure. I'll find all the user names and add them to the group.
> 2. Are there any thoughts re: how pages are parented? I noticed
> that only
> the 'Toolchains' proposal is parented by 'All Proposals'. Most of
> the rest
> seem to be under 'Maven 2.1 Design Documents'.
I am reshuffling pages around all the time so I've not used the
lineage, but we start to now that things are gelling.
> It would be nice to see, at
> a glance, which version these proposals relate to,
Good idea. How's this for a start:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> and an easy way to do
> that might be to categorize proposals with appropriate parent
> pages. I
> think as the list of proposals grows, it's going to be difficult to
> make
> sense of this page. This can be addressed later pretty easily I
> think.
>
Sure, that sounds like a good idea.
> 3. I'm confused about where in svn new features get implemented.
> 'Where new
> development starts' (on
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Development+Process) says
> all new
> features/improvements go into the latest trunk revision. The
> 'Annotated
> Development Process' says to "Create a feature/change branch and start
> working on your code." Which is is?
Ok, so the new features start on trunk but the new feature is a
branch of trunk. The point being feature additions don't destabilize
the trunk. The series of branches associated with issues also
provides a clear path of what happened, branches named with something
like MNG-123-AndMaybeSomeQuickDescription make it easy to know what
it is and to look up the issue. For dead simple fixes things can go
into the trunk but anything requiring more then a few hours of work
should go into a feature branch of trunk. When it's merged back into
trunk, if it's possible it is then merged back into any version
branches (like 2.0.x).
>
>
> Patrick
>
> On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
>> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
>> a little sketch for perusal:
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>>
>> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
>> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
>> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
>> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
>> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
>> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>>
>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>>
>> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
>> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
>> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
>> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
>> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>>
>> The proposals are all here:
>>
>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>>
>> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
>> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
>> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
>> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
>> view of what's going on
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> jason at sonatype dot com
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Patrick Schneider <ps...@gmail.com>.
A few things:
1. Can I get edit access? My username is 'pschneider'.
2. Are there any thoughts re: how pages are parented? I noticed that only
the 'Toolchains' proposal is parented by 'All Proposals'. Most of the rest
seem to be under 'Maven 2.1 Design Documents'. It would be nice to see, at
a glance, which version these proposals relate to, and an easy way to do
that might be to categorize proposals with appropriate parent pages. I
think as the list of proposals grows, it's going to be difficult to make
sense of this page. This can be addressed later pretty easily I think.
3. I'm confused about where in svn new features get implemented. 'Where new
development starts' (on
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Development+Process) says all new
features/improvements go into the latest trunk revision. The 'Annotated
Development Process' says to "Create a feature/change branch and start
working on your code." Which is is?
Patrick
On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
> a little sketch for perusal:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>
> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>
> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>
> The proposals are all here:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>
> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
> view of what's going on
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
RE: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by "Rollo, Dan" <DR...@ETS.ORG>.
Looking over the current page, I see one mention of the Embedder. I'm
unclear whether there are plans to release any embedder updates in the
2.0.* line. From the "The Embedder for all client use in 2.1", I'm also
unsure if the Embedder is to be released in the 2.1 line either.
We're currently using an old Embedder release (v2.0.4) in the
CruiseControl project, and I'm wondering if we should stop using it. Any
suggestions? (I'd like to avoid hand rolling a non-release Embedder if
possible).
Thanks,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason van Zyl [mailto:jason@maven.org]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 7:02 PM
To: Maven Developers List
Subject: Quick sketch of the dev process
Hi,
As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and adding
new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up a little
sketch for perusal:
http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project that
anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but I think
a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I can
improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've tried
to collect all relevant information about the project:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
And process is based around making proposals that eventually will serve
as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to have
anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to automate
some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly onerous and
provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
The proposals are all here:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put some
notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple proposal
to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is experimental
but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear view of what's
going on
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 27 Jun 07, at 8:55 AM 27 Jun 07, Mark Hobson wrote:
> On 27/06/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>> I think I like having a listing of the work in progress on the main
>> page so that you don't have to click to another page to see the work
>> in progress.
>>
>> That said I like them all on one page, but I would like to extract
>> the current ongoing work into the front page so that people can see
>> right away what's being worked on without clicking somewhere else.
>
> Hmm, I'm no confluence expert - is that dynamic behaviour possible?
>
Maybe we can tag them and show all the tags for things "in progress".
> W3C CSS have a similar page, which may be of interest:
> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Mark Hobson <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 27/06/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> I think I like having a listing of the work in progress on the main
> page so that you don't have to click to another page to see the work
> in progress.
>
> That said I like them all on one page, but I would like to extract
> the current ongoing work into the front page so that people can see
> right away what's being worked on without clicking somewhere else.
Hmm, I'm no confluence expert - is that dynamic behaviour possible?
W3C CSS have a similar page, which may be of interest:
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work
Mark
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 27 Jun 07, at 7:15 AM 27 Jun 07, Mark Hobson wrote:
> On 27/06/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>> On 27 Jun 07, at 6:15 AM 27 Jun 07, Mark Hobson wrote:
>> > Looks good in general. I found it a little confusing how the
>> info was
>> > split across the two pages (Home and All Proposals). How about
>> > changing the All Proposals page to encapsulate all proposal
>> > information in one table? It would look similar to the
>> > work-in-progress table on Home, but it could have a status
>> column for
>> > draft, pending, approved, work-in-progress and implemented.
>>
>> You want to just try re-arranging it so we can see?
>
> How about something like that?
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>
I think I like having a listing of the work in progress on the main
page so that you don't have to click to another page to see the work
in progress.
That said I like them all on one page, but I would like to extract
the current ongoing work into the front page so that people can see
right away what's being worked on without clicking somewhere else.
> Mark
>
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>
Thanks,
Jason
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jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Mark Hobson <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 27/06/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> On 27 Jun 07, at 6:15 AM 27 Jun 07, Mark Hobson wrote:
> > Looks good in general. I found it a little confusing how the info was
> > split across the two pages (Home and All Proposals). How about
> > changing the All Proposals page to encapsulate all proposal
> > information in one table? It would look similar to the
> > work-in-progress table on Home, but it could have a status column for
> > draft, pending, approved, work-in-progress and implemented.
>
> You want to just try re-arranging it so we can see?
How about something like that?
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
Mark
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 27 Jun 07, at 6:15 AM 27 Jun 07, Mark Hobson wrote:
> Looks good in general. I found it a little confusing how the info was
> split across the two pages (Home and All Proposals). How about
> changing the All Proposals page to encapsulate all proposal
> information in one table? It would look similar to the
> work-in-progress table on Home, but it could have a status column for
> draft, pending, approved, work-in-progress and implemented.
>
You want to just try re-arranging it so we can see?
> Mark
>
> On 27/06/07, Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not that this is really the thread for it, but +1 on trying out
>> xwiki!
>> Namely because Vincent is an insider (always nice to have) and I
>> never
>> really liked Confluence much anyway.
>>
>> Eric
>> Not an XWiki Developer ;-)
>>
>> On 6/26/07, Vincent Massol <vi...@massol.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Jason,
>> >
>> > Sounds very good to me. You're right that making things surface
>> is a
>> > good thing. It requires more discipline but Maven being so
>> successful
>> > and so many people relying on it now makes it a necessity I
>> think to
>> > better control its evolution.
>> >
>> > Now all you need is a good wiki that allows you easier
>> implementation/
>> > follow up of that process... ;-)
>> >
>> > It would be real easy with xwiki to have a template for
>> proposals and
>> > have a status combo box on each proposal that you could use to
>> move a
>> > proposal between states. That would then allow you to query the
>> > proposals and list them on the dashboard page in the right category
>> > and do other nice things... (like, automatically send an email
>> when a
>> > proposal in the draft state hasn't been touched for the past 6
>> > months, or whatever comes to mind).
>> >
>> > -Vincent
>> > XWiki Developer (just to show that I'm probably biased... ;))
>> >
>> > On Jun 26, 2007, at 1:02 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
>> > > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped
>> > > up a little sketch for perusal:
>> > >
>> > > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>> > >
>> > > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in
>> > > the Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the
>> > > project that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from
>> > > perfect but I think a good starting point and I would like to
>> field
>> > > feedback so I can improve it. It basically revolves around the
>> > > dashboard where I've tried to collect all relevant information
>> > > about the project:
>> > >
>> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>> > >
>> > > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
>> > > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is
>> not to
>> > > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be
>> able to
>> > > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
>> > > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>> > >
>> > > The proposals are all here:
>> > >
>> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>> > >
>> > > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved.
>> I've put
>> > > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
>> > > simple proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go.
>> > > This is experimental but I see it as the best way forward for
>> > > getting a clear view of what's going on
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Jason
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > > Jason van Zyl
>> > > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> > > jason at sonatype dot com
>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Eric Redmond
>> http://www.sonatype.com
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
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>
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Mark Hobson <ma...@gmail.com>.
Looks good in general. I found it a little confusing how the info was
split across the two pages (Home and All Proposals). How about
changing the All Proposals page to encapsulate all proposal
information in one table? It would look similar to the
work-in-progress table on Home, but it could have a status column for
draft, pending, approved, work-in-progress and implemented.
Mark
On 27/06/07, Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not that this is really the thread for it, but +1 on trying out xwiki!
> Namely because Vincent is an insider (always nice to have) and I never
> really liked Confluence much anyway.
>
> Eric
> Not an XWiki Developer ;-)
>
> On 6/26/07, Vincent Massol <vi...@massol.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > Sounds very good to me. You're right that making things surface is a
> > good thing. It requires more discipline but Maven being so successful
> > and so many people relying on it now makes it a necessity I think to
> > better control its evolution.
> >
> > Now all you need is a good wiki that allows you easier implementation/
> > follow up of that process... ;-)
> >
> > It would be real easy with xwiki to have a template for proposals and
> > have a status combo box on each proposal that you could use to move a
> > proposal between states. That would then allow you to query the
> > proposals and list them on the dashboard page in the right category
> > and do other nice things... (like, automatically send an email when a
> > proposal in the draft state hasn't been touched for the past 6
> > months, or whatever comes to mind).
> >
> > -Vincent
> > XWiki Developer (just to show that I'm probably biased... ;))
> >
> > On Jun 26, 2007, at 1:02 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> > > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped
> > > up a little sketch for perusal:
> > >
> > > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
> > >
> > > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in
> > > the Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the
> > > project that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from
> > > perfect but I think a good starting point and I would like to field
> > > feedback so I can improve it. It basically revolves around the
> > > dashboard where I've tried to collect all relevant information
> > > about the project:
> > >
> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> > >
> > > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> > > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> > > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> > > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> > > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
> > >
> > > The proposals are all here:
> > >
> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
> > >
> > > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> > > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
> > > simple proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go.
> > > This is experimental but I see it as the best way forward for
> > > getting a clear view of what's going on
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > Jason van Zyl
> > > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> > > jason at sonatype dot com
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Eric Redmond
> http://www.sonatype.com
>
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com>.
Not that this is really the thread for it, but +1 on trying out xwiki!
Namely because Vincent is an insider (always nice to have) and I never
really liked Confluence much anyway.
Eric
Not an XWiki Developer ;-)
On 6/26/07, Vincent Massol <vi...@massol.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Sounds very good to me. You're right that making things surface is a
> good thing. It requires more discipline but Maven being so successful
> and so many people relying on it now makes it a necessity I think to
> better control its evolution.
>
> Now all you need is a good wiki that allows you easier implementation/
> follow up of that process... ;-)
>
> It would be real easy with xwiki to have a template for proposals and
> have a status combo box on each proposal that you could use to move a
> proposal between states. That would then allow you to query the
> proposals and list them on the dashboard page in the right category
> and do other nice things... (like, automatically send an email when a
> proposal in the draft state hasn't been touched for the past 6
> months, or whatever comes to mind).
>
> -Vincent
> XWiki Developer (just to show that I'm probably biased... ;))
>
> On Jun 26, 2007, at 1:02 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped
> > up a little sketch for perusal:
> >
> > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
> >
> > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in
> > the Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the
> > project that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from
> > perfect but I think a good starting point and I would like to field
> > feedback so I can improve it. It basically revolves around the
> > dashboard where I've tried to collect all relevant information
> > about the project:
> >
> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> >
> > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
> >
> > The proposals are all here:
> >
> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
> >
> > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
> > simple proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go.
> > This is experimental but I see it as the best way forward for
> > getting a clear view of what's going on
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Jason van Zyl
> > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> > jason at sonatype dot com
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
--
Eric Redmond
http://www.sonatype.com
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Vincent Massol <vi...@massol.net>.
Hi Jason,
Sounds very good to me. You're right that making things surface is a
good thing. It requires more discipline but Maven being so successful
and so many people relying on it now makes it a necessity I think to
better control its evolution.
Now all you need is a good wiki that allows you easier implementation/
follow up of that process... ;-)
It would be real easy with xwiki to have a template for proposals and
have a status combo box on each proposal that you could use to move a
proposal between states. That would then allow you to query the
proposals and list them on the dashboard page in the right category
and do other nice things... (like, automatically send an email when a
proposal in the draft state hasn't been touched for the past 6
months, or whatever comes to mind).
-Vincent
XWiki Developer (just to show that I'm probably biased... ;))
On Jun 26, 2007, at 1:02 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped
> up a little sketch for perusal:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>
> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in
> the Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the
> project that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from
> perfect but I think a good starting point and I would like to field
> feedback so I can improve it. It basically revolves around the
> dashboard where I've tried to collect all relevant information
> about the project:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>
> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>
> The proposals are all here:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>
> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
> simple proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go.
> This is experimental but I see it as the best way forward for
> getting a clear view of what's going on
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Milos Kleint <mk...@gmail.com>.
The proposal looks generally ok to me. I'll try to follow it when
working on Toolchains. I'm sure I'll have questions on the way.
more regarding api changes below.
On 6/26/07, John Casey <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like this approach, and I think it's just a slightly more detailed version
> of what some of us are already trying to do when we put together major new
> pieces for Maven. I agree with Eric that any API or behavioral change should
> probably follow this process, basically anything that could change what the
> user experiences.
>
> However, for me, it'd be nice if we could follow this
> documentation/ratification process with some enforcement and quality
> controls. For instance, I'd love to see something that would help us improve
> our test coverage (not just LoC, but functional coverage), and other pieces
> that would help keep us honest on API modifications. Clirr can do the
> latter, but I'm not sure there's a good tools for the former, as
> code-coverage doesn't tell the story of how much of a claimed feature
> actually works...that's more of an assessment of test quality as well as
> population.
I'm not clear what is considered API within the codebase and what is
the level of commitment for backward compatibility for various parts
of the project.
to get this in relation to my day job at netbeans.org..
there we have a clear line what is "stable" API that shall remain
binary compatible as much as possible. Then there's "friend' APIs that
are less strict and a list of known users of the api is kept, limiting
the change impact scope.
It's known what packages are part of the API, the API Consumer/ API
Provider contracts are clearly separated and the APis are created with
future extensibilty in mind. Each change to APis is documented of
course.
however in maven codebase the lines are blurred to me.
1. plugins can basically use almost any component from the core, they
can also provide implementations of components. what packages and
components compose the official API towards the plugins and which are
just internal to the core?
2. each component has an interface and a public default
implementation. Are both part of the API contract or just the
interface is?
3. what is the actual API we want to keep compatible? with what
previous versions?
4. do we have a deprecation procedure? (like keep something for 1-2
releases deprecated and remove it afterwards?)
Regards
Milos
>
> This is definitely a step in the right direction, and should help us tame
> the release process a little more.
>
> Hmm, we should be writing all of this down for posterity...How We Tamed the
> Maven Development Process. That way, rather than being hypocrites for
> talking about idealistic dev processes that we don't follow, we can join the
> masses in our migration toward that ideal. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> -john
>
> On 6/25/07, Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I kind of like the idea of this process applying to any API change - even
> > if
> > it's just a bug fix, not necessarily a feature request.
> >
> > It would also be nice to either have the "Work" articles under "Work in
> > Progress" themselves contain contain the related JIRA issues (since there
> > could be more than one, like ArchetypeNG) - either that or dictate that
> > each
> > proposal has one "feature" JIRA issue (that you can link others to). I
> > don't know if this is already supposed to be the process, but it's clearly
> > not being strongly adhered to.
> >
> > Something minor - I don't know if it was a graffle gaffe (ha) but it might
> > get confusing having two steps named "Approved Proposal". I would imagine
> > one moves the draft to "Approved" before working on the project - which is
> > kind of redundant since once it's approved it moves to work in progress.
> >
> > How about "Drafts", "Pending" and "Complete"?
> >
> > Thanks;
> > Eric
> >
> > On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> > > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
> > > a little sketch for perusal:
> > >
> > > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
> > >
> > > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> > > Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> > > that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> > > I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> > > can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> > > tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
> > >
> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> > >
> > > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> > > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> > > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> > > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> > > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
> > >
> > > The proposals are all here:
> > >
> > > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
> > >
> > > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> > > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
> > > proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
> > > experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
> > > view of what's going on
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > Jason van Zyl
> > > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> > > jason at sonatype dot com
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Eric Redmond
> > http://www.sonatype.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> John Casey
> ---
> Maven Developer (http://maven.apache.org)
> ---
> Blog: http://www.ejlife.net/blogs/buildchimp
>
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 26 Jun 07, at 6:46 AM 26 Jun 07, Jesse McConnell wrote:
> On 6/26/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 25 Jun 07, at 7:11 PM 25 Jun 07, John Casey wrote:
>>
>> > I like this approach, and I think it's just a slightly more
>> > detailed version
>> > of what some of us are already trying to do when we put together
>> > major new
>> > pieces for Maven. I agree with Eric that any API or behavioral
>> > change should
>> > probably follow this process, basically anything that could change
>> > what the
>> > user experiences.
>> >
>>
>> Yah, really just to surface the information. I know that there are
>> only a few of us know where everything is because we look at it
>> everyday but the casual contributor wouldn't have a chance. I think
>> this really facilitates contribution. Someone who has a particular
>> need can see if there is anything vaguely related to what he needs.
>
> agreed, so much of this material been beat around on irc and the back
> rooms of sleazy gin joints around the world...its good to get it all
> formally pulled into one area..
>
> What would be the mechanism for ranking these in terms of priority or
> popularity or is that an concept we don't want to apply at this phase?
>
>
> My primary concern would be that given the wide variety of
> communication channels that maven folks operate under is this material
> becoming old or stale. Wiki's are notoriously easy to let languish.
> There has to be a concerted effort to make one place be the final
> resting place of all this sort of information. Its super easy to pay
> lipservice to this, 'oh, I'll just have the conversation on irc, or
> the mailing list and go back and update that wiki page later' and not
> follow through...
You're right, it requires someone looking at it everyday and I don't
mind doing that for the short term. If no one else picks up the
process and starts using it then it's a flop. But given we have no
way to show people what's actually going on in the project I think
it's a decent first attempt and better then a kick in the pants. IMO,
I think what's there on that one page would take someone 4 days of
email list sifting to find.
>
> of course, my stated primary concern there doesn't offer a better
> solution or alternative...just stating the obvious a bit
>
> anyway, +1, I like it :)
>
Cool, thanks.
>
>
> --
> jesse mcconnell
> jesse.mcconnell@gmail.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jesse McConnell <je...@gmail.com>.
On 6/26/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
> On 25 Jun 07, at 7:11 PM 25 Jun 07, John Casey wrote:
>
> > I like this approach, and I think it's just a slightly more
> > detailed version
> > of what some of us are already trying to do when we put together
> > major new
> > pieces for Maven. I agree with Eric that any API or behavioral
> > change should
> > probably follow this process, basically anything that could change
> > what the
> > user experiences.
> >
>
> Yah, really just to surface the information. I know that there are
> only a few of us know where everything is because we look at it
> everyday but the casual contributor wouldn't have a chance. I think
> this really facilitates contribution. Someone who has a particular
> need can see if there is anything vaguely related to what he needs.
agreed, so much of this material been beat around on irc and the back
rooms of sleazy gin joints around the world...its good to get it all
formally pulled into one area..
What would be the mechanism for ranking these in terms of priority or
popularity or is that an concept we don't want to apply at this phase?
My primary concern would be that given the wide variety of
communication channels that maven folks operate under is this material
becoming old or stale. Wiki's are notoriously easy to let languish.
There has to be a concerted effort to make one place be the final
resting place of all this sort of information. Its super easy to pay
lipservice to this, 'oh, I'll just have the conversation on irc, or
the mailing list and go back and update that wiki page later' and not
follow through...
of course, my stated primary concern there doesn't offer a better
solution or alternative...just stating the obvious a bit
anyway, +1, I like it :)
--
jesse mcconnell
jesse.mcconnell@gmail.com
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Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 25 Jun 07, at 7:11 PM 25 Jun 07, John Casey wrote:
> I like this approach, and I think it's just a slightly more
> detailed version
> of what some of us are already trying to do when we put together
> major new
> pieces for Maven. I agree with Eric that any API or behavioral
> change should
> probably follow this process, basically anything that could change
> what the
> user experiences.
>
Yah, really just to surface the information. I know that there are
only a few of us know where everything is because we look at it
everyday but the casual contributor wouldn't have a chance. I think
this really facilitates contribution. Someone who has a particular
need can see if there is anything vaguely related to what he needs.
The other place this can go is to have a place in the MAVENUSER space
that is an analog for non-committers. Any committer who put together
proposals for patches in the same way we did for adding/changing
functionality would get my attention for first for sure. If we have a
process that is visible we can make this accessible to contributors.
> However, for me, it'd be nice if we could follow this
> documentation/ratification process with some enforcement and quality
> controls. For instance, I'd love to see something that would help
> us improve
> our test coverage (not just LoC, but functional coverage), and
> other pieces
> that would help keep us honest on API modifications. Clirr can do the
> latter, but I'm not sure there's a good tools for the former, as
> code-coverage doesn't tell the story of how much of a claimed feature
> actually works...that's more of an assessment of test quality as
> well as
> population.
We can certainly add the Clirr requirement and I'll add that to the
requirements for "deemed fit for completion". So right now the list is:
- another committer to review
- api inspection for compatibility
I'm sure are many points that are implicit which we could make
explicit. Like ITs being added, unit tests being included,
javadoc ... and maybe even something like we do with the plugins
where we have a standard usage document, so for new features this
could be a requirement, how that meshes into the site. Many things
are possible. This is just the start.
>
> This is definitely a step in the right direction, and should help
> us tame
> the release process a little more.
>
> Hmm, we should be writing all of this down for posterity...How We
> Tamed the
> Maven Development Process. That way, rather than being hypocrites for
> talking about idealistic dev processes that we don't follow, we can
> join the
> masses in our migration toward that ideal. ;-)
Heh. Sure, I don't mind writing this up because it's my job currently
during the day at two very large organizations struggling with the
same issues.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -john
>
> On 6/25/07, Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I kind of like the idea of this process applying to any API change
>> - even
>> if
>> it's just a bug fix, not necessarily a feature request.
>>
>> It would also be nice to either have the "Work" articles under
>> "Work in
>> Progress" themselves contain contain the related JIRA issues
>> (since there
>> could be more than one, like ArchetypeNG) - either that or dictate
>> that
>> each
>> proposal has one "feature" JIRA issue (that you can link others
>> to). I
>> don't know if this is already supposed to be the process, but it's
>> clearly
>> not being strongly adhered to.
>>
>> Something minor - I don't know if it was a graffle gaffe (ha) but
>> it might
>> get confusing having two steps named "Approved Proposal". I would
>> imagine
>> one moves the draft to "Approved" before working on the project -
>> which is
>> kind of redundant since once it's approved it moves to work in
>> progress.
>>
>> How about "Drafts", "Pending" and "Complete"?
>>
>> Thanks;
>> Eric
>>
>> On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
>> > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've
>> whipped up
>> > a little sketch for perusal:
>> >
>> > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>> >
>> > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented
>> in the
>> > Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
>> > that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect
>> but
>> > I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback
>> so I
>> > can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where
>> I've
>> > tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>> >
>> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>> >
>> > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
>> > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
>> > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
>> > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
>> > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>> >
>> > The proposals are all here:
>> >
>> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>> >
>> > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
>> > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a
>> simple
>> > proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
>> > experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a
>> clear
>> > view of what's going on
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Jason
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > Jason van Zyl
>> > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> > jason at sonatype dot com
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Eric Redmond
>> http://www.sonatype.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> John Casey
> ---
> Maven Developer (http://maven.apache.org)
> ---
> Blog: http://www.ejlife.net/blogs/buildchimp
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by John Casey <ca...@gmail.com>.
I like this approach, and I think it's just a slightly more detailed version
of what some of us are already trying to do when we put together major new
pieces for Maven. I agree with Eric that any API or behavioral change should
probably follow this process, basically anything that could change what the
user experiences.
However, for me, it'd be nice if we could follow this
documentation/ratification process with some enforcement and quality
controls. For instance, I'd love to see something that would help us improve
our test coverage (not just LoC, but functional coverage), and other pieces
that would help keep us honest on API modifications. Clirr can do the
latter, but I'm not sure there's a good tools for the former, as
code-coverage doesn't tell the story of how much of a claimed feature
actually works...that's more of an assessment of test quality as well as
population.
This is definitely a step in the right direction, and should help us tame
the release process a little more.
Hmm, we should be writing all of this down for posterity...How We Tamed the
Maven Development Process. That way, rather than being hypocrites for
talking about idealistic dev processes that we don't follow, we can join the
masses in our migration toward that ideal. ;-)
Cheers,
-john
On 6/25/07, Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I kind of like the idea of this process applying to any API change - even
> if
> it's just a bug fix, not necessarily a feature request.
>
> It would also be nice to either have the "Work" articles under "Work in
> Progress" themselves contain contain the related JIRA issues (since there
> could be more than one, like ArchetypeNG) - either that or dictate that
> each
> proposal has one "feature" JIRA issue (that you can link others to). I
> don't know if this is already supposed to be the process, but it's clearly
> not being strongly adhered to.
>
> Something minor - I don't know if it was a graffle gaffe (ha) but it might
> get confusing having two steps named "Approved Proposal". I would imagine
> one moves the draft to "Approved" before working on the project - which is
> kind of redundant since once it's approved it moves to work in progress.
>
> How about "Drafts", "Pending" and "Complete"?
>
> Thanks;
> Eric
>
> On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> > adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
> > a little sketch for perusal:
> >
> > http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
> >
> > Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> > Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> > that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> > I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> > can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> > tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
> >
> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
> >
> > And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> > serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> > have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> > automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> > onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
> >
> > The proposals are all here:
> >
> > http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
> >
> > And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> > some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
> > proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
> > experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
> > view of what's going on
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Jason van Zyl
> > Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> > jason at sonatype dot com
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Eric Redmond
> http://www.sonatype.com
>
--
John Casey
---
Maven Developer (http://maven.apache.org)
---
Blog: http://www.ejlife.net/blogs/buildchimp
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 25 Jun 07, at 6:59 PM 25 Jun 07, Eric Redmond wrote:
> I kind of like the idea of this process applying to any API change
> - even if
> it's just a bug fix, not necessarily a feature request.
>
> It would also be nice to either have the "Work" articles under
> "Work in
> Progress" themselves contain contain the related JIRA issues (since
> there
> could be more than one, like ArchetypeNG) - either that or dictate
> that each
> proposal has one "feature" JIRA issue (that you can link others
> to). I
> don't know if this is already supposed to be the process, but it's
> clearly
> not being strongly adhered to.
>
It would be good to have some easy way to grab the issues associated
with each work in progress. Maybe an ad-hoc component to group them
so that they don't have to be listed, we can just manually list them
for now and eventually I see us finding ways for this information to
surface with tools. But for now maintaining the dashboard and
organizing everything there is still only a few minutes a day.
> Something minor - I don't know if it was a graffle gaffe (ha) but
> it might
> get confusing having two steps named "Approved Proposal". I would
> imagine
> one moves the draft to "Approved" before working on the project -
> which is
> kind of redundant since once it's approved it moves to work in
> progress.
>
Yup, you're right.
> How about "Drafts", "Pending" and "Complete"?
>
I''ll clean that up and I think i'll put the diagram sans the
descriptions in the wiki in the left column and then annotate the
diagram in the right column.
> Thanks;
> Eric
>
> On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
>> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
>> a little sketch for perusal:
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>>
>> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
>> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
>> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
>> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
>> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
>> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>>
>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>>
>> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
>> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
>> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
>> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
>> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>>
>> The proposals are all here:
>>
>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>>
>> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
>> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
>> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
>> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
>> view of what's going on
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
>> jason at sonatype dot com
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Eric Redmond
> http://www.sonatype.com
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Quick sketch of the dev process
Posted by Eric Redmond <er...@gmail.com>.
I kind of like the idea of this process applying to any API change - even if
it's just a bug fix, not necessarily a feature request.
It would also be nice to either have the "Work" articles under "Work in
Progress" themselves contain contain the related JIRA issues (since there
could be more than one, like ArchetypeNG) - either that or dictate that each
proposal has one "feature" JIRA issue (that you can link others to). I
don't know if this is already supposed to be the process, but it's clearly
not being strongly adhered to.
Something minor - I don't know if it was a graffle gaffe (ha) but it might
get confusing having two steps named "Approved Proposal". I would imagine
one moves the draft to "Approved" before working on the project - which is
kind of redundant since once it's approved it moves to work in progress.
How about "Drafts", "Pending" and "Complete"?
Thanks;
Eric
On 6/25/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As part of trying to make the whole process of making changes and
> adding new features transparent to everyone involved I've whipped up
> a little sketch for perusal:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/DevProcess.png
>
> Basically it revolves around making sure things are documented in the
> Wiki and providing a clear record of the evolution of the project
> that anyone can follow at any point in time. So far from perfect but
> I think a good starting point and I would like to field feedback so I
> can improve it. It basically revolves around the dashboard where I've
> tried to collect all relevant information about the project:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/Home
>
> And process is based around making proposals that eventually will
> serve as the record of evolution of the project. The goal is not to
> have anything that's heavy, and that we might eventually be able to
> automate some data gathering but for the meantime it's not overly
> onerous and provides some visibility we have not yet had to date.
>
> The proposals are all here:
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVEN/All+Proposals
>
> And they basically move from draft -> pending -> approved. I've put
> some notes in the diagram and I figured we could start with a simple
> proposal to see how it works and iron the kinks as we go. This is
> experimental but I see it as the best way forward for getting a clear
> view of what's going on
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder and PMC Chair, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
--
Eric Redmond
http://www.sonatype.com