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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> on 2011/08/03 15:16:34 UTC
[collections] 4.0 release path
Hi all guys,
I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
what not.
Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
Thanks all for the feedbacks!!!
I think that having generics (already done for what I can see) plus
COLLECTIONS-310/351/372/377 + checking all issues where requesting
generics would be reasonable to publish the 4.0 release.
I don't know if someone already has a complete list of COLLECTIONS-310
related deprecable/droppable features
TIA, all the best!!!
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>> wait IMO.
>>
>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>> what not.
>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>> Simo
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thank you,
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
Hi all guys,
I would *personally* avoid all that amount of work, people already
migrated to google-collections/guava so I wouldn't invest efforts on
providing releases incrementally, but rather focused on a fresh new
release that could attract again users that left us.
Just my small 2cents,
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Stephen Colebourne
<sc...@joda.org> wrote:
> I don't mind multiple releases with (2), thats a see how it goes type approach.
> Stephen
>
> On 5 August 2011 08:38, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Repeating myself just to make sure you're in full agreement; there
>> would be multiple releases within your 2) state. ie) Maybe we
>> genericize one method and then release [to take it to extremes].
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Stephen Colebourne
>> <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>>> I agree with this. And I think it serves users better, many of whom
>>> have migrated to Google Guava.
>>>
>>> 1) New bug fix only release, JDK 1.4 compatible
>>> 2) New release with some generics, backwards compatible
>>> 3) Re-evaluate whether an incompatible release makes sense
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 August 2011 07:12, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>>>>
>>>> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
>>>> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>>>>
>>>> We then release 3.3.
>>>>
>>>> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
>>>> compat way. Release.
>>>> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
>>>> 3.6... etc.
>>>>
>>>> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
>>>> considered happy).
>>>>
>>>> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
>>>> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>>>>> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
>>>>> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
>>>>> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
>>>>> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
>>>>> those should simply be left as raw types.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
>>>>> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>>>>>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>>>>>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>>>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>>>>>> wait IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>>>>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>>>>>> what not.
>>>>>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>>>>>> Simo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>>>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org>.
I don't mind multiple releases with (2), thats a see how it goes type approach.
Stephen
On 5 August 2011 08:38, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Repeating myself just to make sure you're in full agreement; there
> would be multiple releases within your 2) state. ie) Maybe we
> genericize one method and then release [to take it to extremes].
>
> Hen
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Stephen Colebourne
> <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>> I agree with this. And I think it serves users better, many of whom
>> have migrated to Google Guava.
>>
>> 1) New bug fix only release, JDK 1.4 compatible
>> 2) New release with some generics, backwards compatible
>> 3) Re-evaluate whether an incompatible release makes sense
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>> On 5 August 2011 07:12, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>>>
>>> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
>>> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>>>
>>> We then release 3.3.
>>>
>>> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
>>> compat way. Release.
>>> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
>>> 3.6... etc.
>>>
>>> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
>>> considered happy).
>>>
>>> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
>>> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>>>> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
>>>> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
>>>> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
>>>> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>>>>
>>>> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
>>>> those should simply be left as raw types.
>>>>
>>>> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
>>>> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>>>>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>>>>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>>>>> wait IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>>>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>>>>> what not.
>>>>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>>>>> Simo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
Repeating myself just to make sure you're in full agreement; there
would be multiple releases within your 2) state. ie) Maybe we
genericize one method and then release [to take it to extremes].
Hen
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Stephen Colebourne
<sc...@joda.org> wrote:
> I agree with this. And I think it serves users better, many of whom
> have migrated to Google Guava.
>
> 1) New bug fix only release, JDK 1.4 compatible
> 2) New release with some generics, backwards compatible
> 3) Re-evaluate whether an incompatible release makes sense
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On 5 August 2011 07:12, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>>
>> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
>> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>>
>> We then release 3.3.
>>
>> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
>> compat way. Release.
>> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
>> 3.6... etc.
>>
>> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
>> considered happy).
>>
>> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
>> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>>> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
>>> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
>>> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
>>> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>>>
>>> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
>>> those should simply be left as raw types.
>>>
>>> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
>>> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>>>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>>>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>>>> wait IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>>>> what not.
>>>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>>>> Simo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org>.
I agree with this. And I think it serves users better, many of whom
have migrated to Google Guava.
1) New bug fix only release, JDK 1.4 compatible
2) New release with some generics, backwards compatible
3) Re-evaluate whether an incompatible release makes sense
Stephen
On 5 August 2011 07:12, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>
> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>
> We then release 3.3.
>
> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
> compat way. Release.
> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
> 3.6... etc.
>
> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
> considered happy).
>
> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>
> Hen
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
>> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
>> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
>> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>>
>> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
>> those should simply be left as raw types.
>>
>> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
>> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>>> wait IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>>> what not.
>>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>>> Simo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:12 AM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>>
>> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
>> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>>
>> We then release 3.3.
>>
>> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
>> compat way. Release.
>> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
>> 3.6... etc.
>>
>> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
>> considered happy).
>>
>> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
>> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>>
>> Hen
>
> Yes, release early, release often.
>
> The only issue I can see is the time suck aspect of RERO. In [lang],
> it seems we've made an unwritten agreement to release once a month,
> that's pretty aggressive based on history. Are we talking about
> something like this here?
There's no agreement on monthly releases - I'm being obtuse and experimenting :)
My view is that the time suck aspect of RERO is the problem, not RERO.
We can improve the time, and discover from users if there is a thing
as too-often. A huge amount of my time in RMing is remembering how to
RM and building up the energy to deal with it. If you release a lot
then that becomes routine and the only issue is the voting and
analysis - which should increasingly focus on 'which issues' and less
on the quality of our packaging.
Everything that Lang 3.0 was, Collections 4.0 (or 3.5) will be and 10
times more. We will navel gaze and spend ages getting a release out
sometime in early 2014 (and that's optimistic). We need incremental
successes to drive us to a 4.0.
Hen
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:12 AM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
>
> Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
> that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
>
> We then release 3.3.
>
> Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
> compat way. Release.
> 3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
> 3.6... etc.
>
> We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
> considered happy).
>
> Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
> over the remainder of generics-RnD.
>
> Hen
Yes, release early, release often.
The only issue I can see is the time suck aspect of RERO. In [lang],
it seems we've made an unwritten agreement to release once a month,
that's pretty aggressive based on history. Are we talking about
something like this here?
Gary
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
>> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
>> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
>> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>>
>> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
>> those should simply be left as raw types.
>>
>> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
>> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>>> wait IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>>> what not.
>>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>>> Simo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
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>
--
Thank you,
Gary
http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
http://garygregory.com/
http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
I think we should move the current trunk off and call it generics-RnD.
Then we should copy 3.2 over to trunk (or maybe 3.3, I seem to recall
that prior to merging the generics in we had a 3.3 ready for release).
We then release 3.3.
Then we start 3.4. We genericize some tiny part of it in a binary
compat way. Release.
3.5. Genericize a bit more. Release.
3.6... etc.
We use generics-RnD code, pulling it over (and maybe deleting when
considered happy).
Somewhere around about 3.28 we can decide to start on 4.0, pulling
over the remainder of generics-RnD.
Hen
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
> I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
> refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
> generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
> the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
>
> Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
> those should simply be left as raw types.
>
> Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
> (again), but it it probably the right approach.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
>> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
>> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>>> wait IMO.
>>>
>>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>>> what not.
>>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>>> Simo
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org>.
I think that a key mistake was trying to do both generics and
refactoring. I'd suggest that quite a few users would simply like a
generified [collections] 3.5 that is fully backwards compatible (as
the JDK was) and with no refactoring.
Now, some of the API cannot be generified correctly, so for a v3.5,
those should simply be left as raw types.
Of course doing the above isn't fun, as it involves going back
(again), but it it probably the right approach.
Stephen
On 3 August 2011 16:01, Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
> allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
> necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>>> wait IMO.
>>
>> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
>> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>>> what not.
>>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>>> Simo
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thank you,
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>>> http://garygregory.com/
>>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org>.
Or do a pure generics release as 3.5 to satisfy that need... which
allows 4.0 to have generics plus the benefit of major refactoring if
necessary (could also be called 4.0 and 5.0).
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
>> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
>> wait IMO.
>
> Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
> (paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
>
> Matt
>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi all guys,
>>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>>> what not.
>>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>>> Simo
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Gary
>>
>> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
>> http://garygregory.com/
>> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
>> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
> work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
> wait IMO.
Indeed, this seems to resonate with Hen's recent treatise on
(paraphrased) why the hell we take so long.
Matt
>
> Gary
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi all guys,
>> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
>> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
>> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
>> what not.
>> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
>> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
>> Simo
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
> Gary
>
> http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
> http://garygregory.com/
> http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
> http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [collections] 4.0 release path
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
The most important theme IMO is generics. That's what has come up at
work recently in fact. Everything else except showstopper bugs can
wait IMO.
Gary
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all guys,
> I'm (re)starting having a good slot of spare time, I volunteered to
> help Matt on finalizing the [collections] release, but after had a
> look at the open issues I think we should agree on what including and
> what not.
> Does anyone already have a good overview/idea of collections roadmap?
> Many thanks in advance, have a nice day!!!
> Simo
>
> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
> http://www.99soft.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
--
Thank you,
Gary
http://garygregory.wordpress.com/
http://garygregory.com/
http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/
http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
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