Are layers 'that evil'?

[Rob Manthey <st...@rob.manthey.id.au>]

I found this recent par on a local JUG resonated for me and had some
theme parallels to Rick's current thread ... how much do we over-code in
ignorance of the natural mechanisms available?  (Sure, the uber-coders
among us can code better frameworks and deserve the fruits, but not we
lesser-lings, who usually tangle things more by trying on that caper.)
Rob

Paul Reedman wrote:

><snip/>
>I still run into Java projects that build their own frameworks !!! Yes
>Struts or hibernate is not good enough, we need our own framework, so lets
>spend precious several weeks (or months) of the project time recasting a new
>web framework.
>
>Another thing I have noticed is that Java people love building layers. So a
>particular developer doesn't like the interface into hibernate or struts (or
>whatever framework) so they build another layer on top of the framework.
>
>This layer then becomes complicated and so a whole bunch of other people add
>to the layer in an attempt to make it "easier". (which doesn't happen
>because all they have done is to make it more complicated)
>
>Of course this new layer hides everything and soon you have no idea what you
>are doing. Importantly no one documents this new layer, so when new people
>join the project, they ask "I don't understand this framework..". Of course
>they don't know that underneath all of this software is plain old struts
>which has disappeared from view. 
><snip/>
>


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Re: Are layers 'that evil'?

[Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>]

Do you have a single example of this so that we can see you are at least
talking about something in particular?

On 5/3/06, Rob Manthey <st...@rob.manthey.id.au> wrote:
>
> I found this recent par on a local JUG resonated for me and had some
> theme parallels to Rick's current thread ... how much do we over-code in
> ignorance of the natural mechanisms available?  (Sure, the uber-coders
> among us can code better frameworks and deserve the fruits, but not we
> lesser-lings, who usually tangle things more by trying on that caper.)
> Rob
>
> Paul Reedman wrote:
>
> ><snip/>
> >I still run into Java projects that build their own frameworks !!! Yes
> >Struts or hibernate is not good enough, we need our own framework, so
> lets
> >spend precious several weeks (or months) of the project time recasting a
> new
> >web framework.
> >
> >Another thing I have noticed is that Java people love building layers. So
> a
> >particular developer doesn't like the interface into hibernate or struts
> (or
> >whatever framework) so they build another layer on top of the framework.
> >
> >This layer then becomes complicated and so a whole bunch of other people
> add
> >to the layer in an attempt to make it "easier". (which doesn't happen
> >because all they have done is to make it more complicated)
> >
> >Of course this new layer hides everything and soon you have no idea what
> you
> >are doing. Importantly no one documents this new layer, so when new
> people
> >join the project, they ask "I don't understand this framework..". Of
> course
> >they don't know that underneath all of this software is plain old struts
> >which has disappeared from view.
> ><snip/>
> >
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>


--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~