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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com> on 2008/01/15 16:19:55 UTC
[VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Hi,
I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
There are several reasons:
- The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
- The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of trunk
and 6.0.x.
- We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time in
tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
[ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
[ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Henri Gomez <he...@gmail.com>.
> [X] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
I'd like this idea.
jk or tcnative are part of the 'tomcat' chain and could (should) be
packaged independently.
Their life cycle is not the same.
A +1
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
On Jan 15, 2008 10:19 AM, jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ X ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
I like modularity.
Yoav
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Will we have installers for it ?
for the moment a tarball or zip file should be ok, shouldn't it?
> Will the installer/release include the
> associated libapr ?
Yes.
What about openssl?
> I assume both native and java
> code will be included ?
I am not sure of that... A part of the idea is to be able to use the
same tcnative with several tomcat versions.
> What additional docs will be needed ?
Probably ;-)
> Will tomcat
> releases bundle it, or just require to download it separately ?
The sources yes. The binaries I don't think so.
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
>
> It would be great to have it as separate release ( so +1 ) - but I think a
> more detailed proposal/plan would help a lot.
>
> Costin
>
> On Jan 15, 2008 9:44 AM, Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>>
>>> (for example, existing Tomcat
>>> users will be able to take 1.1.12 and use it with older Tomcat releases
>>> to fix a bug), so it would need a release vote and separate tagging.
>>>
>> Sure, the same can be done with commons-logging.jar from
>> any future version I suppose ;)
>>
>> Anyhow, the major problem I have with that sudden change is
>> because we had a working solution for 2.5 years.
>> Within last 24 hours we had lots of discussion and a vote
>> for something that is in essence an administrative problem.
>> IMHO if we have an administrative problem, first we need to
>> solve that (simply moving the tarballs to private location).
>> Later we can discuss on the tomcat-native future.
>> 24 hours is simply not enough to get any proper decision
>> that would last at least 2.5 years :)
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mladen
>>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Costin Manolache <co...@gmail.com>.
Will we have installers for it ? Will the installer/release include the
associated libapr ? I assume both native and java
code will be included ? What additional docs will be needed ? Will tomcat
releases bundle it, or just require to download it separately ?
It would be great to have it as separate release ( so +1 ) - but I think a
more detailed proposal/plan would help a lot.
Costin
On Jan 15, 2008 9:44 AM, Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> wrote:
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>
> > (for example, existing Tomcat
> > users will be able to take 1.1.12 and use it with older Tomcat releases
> > to fix a bug), so it would need a release vote and separate tagging.
> >
>
> Sure, the same can be done with commons-logging.jar from
> any future version I suppose ;)
>
> Anyhow, the major problem I have with that sudden change is
> because we had a working solution for 2.5 years.
> Within last 24 hours we had lots of discussion and a vote
> for something that is in essence an administrative problem.
> IMHO if we have an administrative problem, first we need to
> solve that (simply moving the tarballs to private location).
> Later we can discuss on the tomcat-native future.
> 24 hours is simply not enough to get any proper decision
> that would last at least 2.5 years :)
>
>
> Regards,
> Mladen
>
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>
Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> (for example, existing Tomcat
> users will be able to take 1.1.12 and use it with older Tomcat releases
> to fix a bug), so it would need a release vote and separate tagging.
>
Sure, the same can be done with commons-logging.jar from
any future version I suppose ;)
Anyhow, the major problem I have with that sudden change is
because we had a working solution for 2.5 years.
Within last 24 hours we had lots of discussion and a vote
for something that is in essence an administrative problem.
IMHO if we have an administrative problem, first we need to
solve that (simply moving the tarballs to private location).
Later we can discuss on the tomcat-native future.
24 hours is simply not enough to get any proper decision
that would last at least 2.5 years :)
Regards,
Mladen
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
Remy Maucherat schrieb:
> I don't think that it needs to be managed as a full project (and it does
> not have 3 developers). However, it still looks as a release of
> something separate than a Tomcat release (for example, existing Tomcat
> users will be able to take 1.1.12 and use it with older Tomcat releases
> to fix a bug), so it would need a release vote and separate tagging.
>
> Rémy
Actually whenever I wrote "product" I meant a separately released
component produced by the Tomcat project.
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 17:54 +0100, Rainer Jung wrote:
> Looking at it's formal qualities, it already has some properties of such
> a product:
>
> - the API between tcnative and the component using it seems stable
> - When we have a problem in tcnative, we fix it there and allow TC users
> to update their tcnative independently
> - we tag a common version of all what's needed to build and use tcnative
> - we produce source and binary packaging out of the tag
> - we provided the packages in form of an independant download in the
> past, binaries not from ASF servers because we didn't like to handle the
> legal crypto stuff
>
> Possible arguments against having a separate product:
>
> - We need an RM
> - Higher level of completeness needed for the downloadable stuff (mainly
> docs)
> - Formal procedural overhead (mainly release voting)
> - Maybe more user issues, because the API might not be as stable as we wish
>
> and maybe more arguments, I don't see at the moment.
>
I don't think that it needs to be managed as a full project (and it does
not have 3 developers). However, it still looks as a release of
something separate than a Tomcat release (for example, existing Tomcat
users will be able to take 1.1.12 and use it with older Tomcat releases
to fix a bug), so it would need a release vote and separate tagging.
Rémy
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
Mladen Turk wrote:
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>>
>> The native component can be used by many Tomcat releases, and has been
>> tagged and released independently. Of course, it is often done in sync
>> with Tomcat to introduce new APIs, but overall it's quite similar to
>> mod_jk releases.
>>
>
> But it's not even close to the mod_jk concept.
> Mod_jk is included inside native web servers, while native
> is integral part of tomcat, jut like any other java connector.
>
> The only small difference ;)
> is that part of this connector happens to be written in C.
> We should start treating it this way instead trying to
> bail out, just because it requires some extra work for RM.
Mladen, maybe you can explain, why you don't like the idea of making
tcnative an independant released product.
Looking at it's formal qualities, it already has some properties of such
a product:
- the API between tcnative and the component using it seems stable
- When we have a problem in tcnative, we fix it there and allow TC users
to update their tcnative independently
- we tag a common version of all what's needed to build and use tcnative
- we produce source and binary packaging out of the tag
- we provided the packages in form of an independant download in the
past, binaries not from ASF servers because we didn't like to handle the
legal crypto stuff
Possible arguments against having a separate product:
- We need an RM
- Higher level of completeness needed for the downloadable stuff (mainly
docs)
- Formal procedural overhead (mainly release voting)
- Maybe more user issues, because the API might not be as stable as we wish
and maybe more arguments, I don't see at the moment.
So please let us know, what your concern is with making it a product.
If it's only "we don't need to make it a product", then yes, but it
becomes more valuable if we make it a product.
>
> Cheers,
> Mladen
Regards,
Rainer
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
>
> The native component can be used by many Tomcat releases, and has been
> tagged and released independently. Of course, it is often done in sync
> with Tomcat to introduce new APIs, but overall it's quite similar to
> mod_jk releases.
>
But it's not even close to the mod_jk concept.
Mod_jk is included inside native web servers, while native
is integral part of tomcat, jut like any other java connector.
The only small difference ;)
is that part of this connector happens to be written in C.
We should start treating it this way instead trying to
bail out, just because it requires some extra work for RM.
Cheers,
Mladen
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 16:19 +0100, jean-frederic clere wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
> There are several reasons:
> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of trunk
> and 6.0.x.
> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time in
> tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
The native component can be used by many Tomcat releases, and has been
tagged and released independently. Of course, it is often done in sync
with Tomcat to introduce new APIs, but overall it's quite similar to
mod_jk releases.
Rémy
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
Yoav Shapira wrote:
> I'd vote the same given the new choice. I'm also willing to help with
> putting docs up, etc.
>
> On Jan 15, 2008 10:47 AM, Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> wrote:
>> jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>> Mladen Turk wrote:
>>>> jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
>>>>> There are several reasons:
>>>>> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
>>>>> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
>>>>> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of
>>>>> trunk and 6.0.x.
>>>>> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time
>>>>> in tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
>>>>>
>>>>> [ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
>>>>> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
>>>>> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
>>>>>
>>>> I don't like any solution, so what should I vote for?
>>> Oops sorry.
>>>
>>> [ ] Leave it like it is now and vote for the existing files.
>>>
>> You cannot add items to the vote with vote in progress.
>> Yoav already voted.
>> Also you vote looks like the one from old USSR.
>> You have a ballot with one name: 'Stalin', so vote.
Except here you can vote -1 for the proposals and comment why and/or
come with a better solution.
Remember we love voting in TC,
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mladen
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
Yoav Shapira wrote:
> I'd vote the same given the new choice. I'm also willing to help with
> putting docs up, etc.
>
Can we guys discuss this more before putting any vote?
Vote means we cannot make any consensus, so we need
to make a 'by majority rule' decision.
The whole discussion started less then 24 hours ago,
and we had the current solution for 2.5 years.
Are we really lost the communication skills?
What is the actual problem?
Regards,
Mladen
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
I'd vote the same given the new choice. I'm also willing to help with
putting docs up, etc.
On Jan 15, 2008 10:47 AM, Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> wrote:
> jean-frederic clere wrote:
> > Mladen Turk wrote:
> >> jean-frederic clere wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
> >>> There are several reasons:
> >>> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
> >>> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
> >>> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of
> >>> trunk and 6.0.x.
> >>> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time
> >>> in tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
> >>>
> >>> [ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
> >>> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
> >>> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't like any solution, so what should I vote for?
> >
> > Oops sorry.
> >
> > [ ] Leave it like it is now and vote for the existing files.
> >
>
> You cannot add items to the vote with vote in progress.
> Yoav already voted.
> Also you vote looks like the one from old USSR.
> You have a ballot with one name: 'Stalin', so vote.
>
> Regards,
> Mladen
>
>
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>
>
--
Thanks,
Yoav
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
jean-frederic clere wrote:
> Mladen Turk wrote:
>> jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
>>> There are several reasons:
>>> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
>>> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
>>> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of
>>> trunk and 6.0.x.
>>> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time
>>> in tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
>>>
>>> [ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
>>> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
>>> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
>>>
>>
>> I don't like any solution, so what should I vote for?
>
> Oops sorry.
>
> [ ] Leave it like it is now and vote for the existing files.
>
You cannot add items to the vote with vote in progress.
Yoav already voted.
Also you vote looks like the one from old USSR.
You have a ballot with one name: 'Stalin', so vote.
Regards,
Mladen
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
Mladen Turk wrote:
> jean-frederic clere wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
>> There are several reasons:
>> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
>> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
>> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of
>> trunk and 6.0.x.
>> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time in
>> tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
>>
>> [ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
>> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
>> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
>>
>
> I don't like any solution, so what should I vote for?
Oops sorry.
[ ] Leave it like it is now and vote for the existing files.
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
jean-frederic clere wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that the tcnative releases should be independent from tomcat.
> There are several reasons:
> - The native code is in /tomcat/connectors/trunk/jni/native and it
> checked out via links in tc trunk/6.0.x/5.5.x.
> - The logic to have tcnative independent is already in the code of trunk
> and 6.0.x.
> - We have been already releasing it (incorrectly) since a long time in
> tomcat/tomcat-connectors/native.
>
> [ ] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
>
I don't like any solution, so what should I vote for?
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Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Peter Rossbach <pr...@objektpark.de>.
> On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 16:19 +0100, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>> [X] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
>> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
>> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
Peter
Re: [VOTE] tcnative releases independent from tomcat
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 16:19 +0100, jean-frederic clere wrote:
> [X] Make tcnative release independent from tomcat release and add the
> corresponding pages in http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/
> [ ] Remove existing tcnative releases. (others are using them).
Rémy
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