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Posted to dev@cassandra.apache.org by Patrick Bannister <pt...@gmail.com> on 2018/06/01 02:44:41 UTC
Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
I propose porting cqlsh and cqlshlib to Python 3. End-of-life for Python 2.7
<https://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/> is currently planned for 1
January 2020. We should prepare to port the tool to a version of Python
that will be officially supported.
I'm seeking input on three questions:
- Should we port it to straight Python 3, or Python 2/3 cross compatible?
- How much more testing is needed?
- Can we wait until after 4.0 for this?
I have an implementation
<https://github.com/ptbannister/cassandra/tree/cqlshlib3> to go with my
proposal. In parallel with getting the dtest cqlsh_tests working again, I
ported cqlsh.py and cqlshlib to Python 3. It passes with almost all of the
dtests and the unittests, so it's in pretty good shape, although it's not
100% done (more on that below).
*Python 3 or 2/3 cross compatible?* There are plenty of examples of Python
libraries that are compatible with both Python 2 and Python 3 (notably the
Cassandra Python driver), so I think this is achievable. The question is,
do we want to pay the price of cross compatibility? If we write cqlsh to be
2/3 cross compatible, we'll carry a long term technical debt to maintain
that feature. The value of continuing to support Python 2 will diminish
over time. However, a cross compatible implementation may ease the
transition for some users, especially if there are users who have made
significant custom modifications to the Python 2.7 implementation of cqlsh,
so I think we must at least consider the question.
*What additional testing is needed before we could release it?* I used
coverage.py to check on the code coverage of our existing dtest cqlsh_tests
and cqlshlib unittests. There are several blind spots in our current
testing that should be addressed before we release a port of cqlsh. Details
of this are available on JIRA ticket CASSANDRA-10190
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190> in the attachment
coverage_notes.txt
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12926015/coverage_notes.txt>.
Beyond that, I've made no efforts to test on platforms other than Ubuntu
and CentOS, so Windows testing is needed if we're making efforts to support
Windows. It would also be preferable for some real users to try out the
port before it replaces the Python 2.7 cqlsh in a release.
Besides this, there are a couple of test failures I'm still trying to
figure out, notably tests involving user defined map types (a task made
more interesting by Python's general lack of support for immutable map
types).
*Can we wait until after 4.0 for this?* I don't think it's reasonable to
try to release this with 4.0 given the current consensus around a feature
freeze in the next few months. My feeling is that our testers and
committers are already very busy with the currently planned changes for
4.0. I recommend planning toward a release to occur after 4.0. If we run up
against Python 2.7 EOL before we can cut the next release, we could
consider releasing a ported cqlsh independently, for installation through
distutils or pip.
Patrick Bannister
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Murukesh Mohanan <mu...@gmail.com>.
If anything, riding on their coattails will mean we'll drop support a year
or two later, after we see their experiences - which will be nicely in line
with the Python upstream EOL date of 2020. (Of course, distro vendors will
provide support after that, say till 2025.) So perhaps 2020 should be a
reasonable deadline for Cassandra to drop support too? Assuming C* version
X EOLing in 2025 will be the last to have support for Python 2 is released
around 2020.
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:01 Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
> And that's why I said supporting both with six is the right path
> forward, later dropping support for 2. I'm not advocating we drop 2
> support now, and I'm not asking for any sort of commitment. I didn't
> think adding support for 3 would be so controversial.
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Jeremiah D Jordan
> <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The community of people doing python development and the community of
> people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding
> the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have
> stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people will
> be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python 2
> at the end of the year.
> >
> > -Jeremiah
> >
> > > On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
> > > driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
> > > reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
> > >
> > > Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
> > > this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
> > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently
> pointed
> > >> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
> > >> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
> > >> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
> > >> Python 2 was.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> > >>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in
> the
> > >>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off
> at
> > >>> some point.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> > >>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
> > >>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
> > >>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian
> has
> > >>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and
> has
> > >>>> no announced release date).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And
> servers
> > >>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - Micke
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> > >>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3
> (I
> > >>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also).
> This will
> > >>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2
> support
> > >>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run
> Cassandra
> > >>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud
> and
> > >>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been
> upgraded to
> > >>>> the 3.5 series. -
> > >>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
> > >>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> > >>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
> > >>>> ).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>> Jon Haddad
> > >>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> > >>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jon Haddad
> > >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> > > twitter: rustyrazorblade
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Jon Haddad
> http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
> --
Muru
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Patrick Bannister <pt...@gmail.com>.
Kurt's proposal to freeze the 2.7 implementation and offer a Python 3
implementation alongside it appeals to my desire to free ourselves of
design choices made for the sake of Python 2/3 cross compatibility. It also
has the advantage of keeping Python 2.7 users on a time tested product.
On the downside, offering two separate implementations would come at the
cost of maintaining both, which would siphon community resources away from
other areas more beneficial to the project. On that basis, I advocate for a
cross compatible implementation over releasing two implementations.
Patrick Bannister
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:49 PM, kurt greaves <ku...@instaclustr.com> wrote:
> Seems pretty straightforward to me. Create a python 3 version as soon as
> possible and make it available, keep the python 2.7 version as default
> until the next major release after 4.0 (assuming around/after python 2.7
> EOL), then switch default and leave continued support for 2.7 cqlsh up to
> the community and whoever needs it.
>
> On Sat., 2 Jun. 2018, 04:45 J. D. Jordan, <je...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > All for using six and supporting both. Sorry, I read your initial email
> as
> > wanting to drop support for 2 at the end of the year.
> >
> > > On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > And that's why I said supporting both with six is the right path
> > > forward, later dropping support for 2. I'm not advocating we drop 2
> > > support now, and I'm not asking for any sort of commitment. I didn't
> > > think adding support for 3 would be so controversial.
> > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Jeremiah D Jordan
> > > <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The community of people doing python development and the community of
> > people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding
> > the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have
> > stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people
> will
> > be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python
> 2
> > at the end of the year.
> > >>
> > >> -Jeremiah
> > >>
> > >>> On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
> > >>> driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
> > >>> reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
> > >>>
> > >>> Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
> > >>> this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
> > >>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <
> russ@windofkeltia.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently
> > pointed
> > >>>> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
> > >>>> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change.
> I
> > >>>> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
> > >>>> Python 2 was.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> > >>>>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2
> in
> > the
> > >>>>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid
> off
> > at
> > >>>>> some point.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <
> miburman@redhat.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> > >>>>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default).
> It
> > >>>>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point.
> It
> > >>>>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian
> > has
> > >>>>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and
> > has
> > >>>>>> no announced release date).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And
> > servers
> > >>>>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - Micke
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python
> 3
> > (I
> > >>>>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also).
> > This will
> > >>>>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2
> > support
> > >>>>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run
> > Cassandra
> > >>>>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud
> > and
> > >>>>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been
> > upgraded to
> > >>>>>> the 3.5 series. -
> > >>>>>>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.
> ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=
> adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=
> J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-
> gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
> > >>>>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> > >>>>>>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.
> redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-
> 5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-
> 5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&
> d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQ
> hp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=
> CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
> > >>>>>> ).
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>> Jon Haddad
> > >>>>>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=
> CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=
> J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=
> ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> > >>>>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Jon Haddad
> > >>>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=
> CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=
> J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=
> ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> > >>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jon Haddad
> > > http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> > > twitter: rustyrazorblade
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by kurt greaves <ku...@instaclustr.com>.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Create a python 3 version as soon as
possible and make it available, keep the python 2.7 version as default
until the next major release after 4.0 (assuming around/after python 2.7
EOL), then switch default and leave continued support for 2.7 cqlsh up to
the community and whoever needs it.
On Sat., 2 Jun. 2018, 04:45 J. D. Jordan, <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All for using six and supporting both. Sorry, I read your initial email as
> wanting to drop support for 2 at the end of the year.
>
> > On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
> >
> > And that's why I said supporting both with six is the right path
> > forward, later dropping support for 2. I'm not advocating we drop 2
> > support now, and I'm not asking for any sort of commitment. I didn't
> > think adding support for 3 would be so controversial.
> > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Jeremiah D Jordan
> > <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The community of people doing python development and the community of
> people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding
> the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have
> stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people will
> be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python 2
> at the end of the year.
> >>
> >> -Jeremiah
> >>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
> >>> driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
> >>> reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
> >>>
> >>> Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
> >>> this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently
> pointed
> >>>> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
> >>>> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
> >>>> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
> >>>> Python 2 was.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> >>>>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in
> the
> >>>>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off
> at
> >>>>> some point.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> >>>>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
> >>>>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
> >>>>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian
> has
> >>>>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and
> has
> >>>>>> no announced release date).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And
> servers
> >>>>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Micke
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3
> (I
> >>>>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also).
> This will
> >>>>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2
> support
> >>>>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run
> Cassandra
> >>>>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud
> and
> >>>>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been
> upgraded to
> >>>>>> the 3.5 series. -
> >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
> >>>>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
> >>>>>> ).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>> Jon Haddad
> >>>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> >>>>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jon Haddad
> >>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> >>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Haddad
> > http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> > twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
>
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by "J. D. Jordan" <je...@gmail.com>.
All for using six and supporting both. Sorry, I read your initial email as wanting to drop support for 2 at the end of the year.
> On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
>
> And that's why I said supporting both with six is the right path
> forward, later dropping support for 2. I'm not advocating we drop 2
> support now, and I'm not asking for any sort of commitment. I didn't
> think adding support for 3 would be so controversial.
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Jeremiah D Jordan
> <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The community of people doing python development and the community of people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people will be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python 2 at the end of the year.
>>
>> -Jeremiah
>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
>>> driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
>>> reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
>>>
>>> Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
>>> this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently pointed
>>>> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
>>>> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
>>>> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
>>>> Python 2 was.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
>>>>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
>>>>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
>>>>> some point.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
>>>>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
>>>>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
>>>>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
>>>>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
>>>>>> no announced release date).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
>>>>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Micke
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
>>>>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
>>>>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
>>>>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
>>>>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
>>>>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
>>>>>> the 3.5 series. -
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
>>>>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Jon Haddad
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
>>>>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Haddad
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
>>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jon Haddad
> http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
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Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>.
And that's why I said supporting both with six is the right path
forward, later dropping support for 2. I'm not advocating we drop 2
support now, and I'm not asking for any sort of commitment. I didn't
think adding support for 3 would be so controversial.
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Jeremiah D Jordan
<je...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The community of people doing python development and the community of people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people will be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python 2 at the end of the year.
>
> -Jeremiah
>
> > On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
> >
> > Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
> > driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
> > reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
> >
> > Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
> > this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
> > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently pointed
> >> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
> >> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
> >> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
> >> Python 2 was.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> >>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
> >>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
> >>> some point.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> >>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
> >>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
> >>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
> >>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
> >>>> no announced release date).
> >>>>
> >>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
> >>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Micke
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> >>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
> >>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
> >>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
> >>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
> >>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
> >>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
> >>>> the 3.5 series. -
> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
> >>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
> >>>> ).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>> Jon Haddad
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> >>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Haddad
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> > twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
--
Jon Haddad
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
twitter: rustyrazorblade
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Jeremiah D Jordan <je...@gmail.com>.
The community of people doing python development and the community of people running Cassandra servers are not the same. I am not fine riding the coat tails of libraries used in python development. As others have stated we need to be following the lead of the OS vendors that people will be deploying Cassandra on top of. And those will not be dropping Python 2 at the end of the year.
-Jeremiah
> On Jun 1, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com> wrote:
>
> Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
> driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
> reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
>
> Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
> this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com> wrote:
>>
>> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently pointed
>> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
>> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
>> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
>> Python 2 was.
>>
>>
>> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
>>> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
>>> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
>>> some point.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
>>>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
>>>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
>>>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
>>>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
>>>> no announced release date).
>>>>
>>>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
>>>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
>>>>
>>>> - Micke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
>>>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
>>>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
>>>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
>>>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
>>>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
>>>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
>>>> the 3.5 series. -
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.ubuntu.com_XenialXerus_ReleaseNotes-23Python-5F3&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=9OWAbO26grwiI2ly_-gAGBqJP9Mv6KPAKJyQu_OEDPc&e=
>>>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__access.redhat.com_documentation_en-2Dus_red-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux_7_html_7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes_chap-2Dred-5Fhat-5Fenterprise-5Flinux-2D7.5-5Frelease-5Fnotes-2Ddeprecated-5Ffunctionality&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=CDFufWbcvq6VpoLJQVbCQP9rpvIv3ssNtKMQce-1vwU&e=
>>>> ).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Jon Haddad
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
>>> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jon Haddad
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rustyrazorblade.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g&r=CNZK3RiJDLqhsZDG6FQGnXn8WyPRCQhp4x_uBICNC0g&m=J5Su6wvm91QrOBcici7HyIiFiyzjrg8UnamYu8qtSRA&s=ElPVVa0MdfruNq11vJS0JQo6LYDBQVJIVMFHQIEHnT4&e=
> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>.
Both can work. I did a lot of the work on the port of the Python
driver's object mapper (formerly cqlengine) to Python 3. It's
reasonably straightforward if you use the six library.
Both pandas and numpy are dropping support for Python 2 at the end of
this year. I'm fine with riding on their coattails.
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 9:21 AM Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com> wrote:
>
> Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently pointed
> out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
> still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
> think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
> Python 2 was.
>
>
> On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> > Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
> > next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
> > some point.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> >> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
> >> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
> >> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
> >> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
> >> no announced release date).
> >>
> >> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
> >> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
> >>
> >> - Micke
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> >>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
> >>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
> >>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
> >>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
> >>>> and that's not a positive thing.
> >>>>
> >>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> >>>
> >>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
> >> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
> >> the 3.5 series. -
> >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Python_3
> >>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> >> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/7.5_release_notes/chap-red_hat_enterprise_linux-7.5_release_notes-deprecated_functionality
> >> ).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >>
> >> --
> > Jon Haddad
> > http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> > twitter: rustyrazorblade
> >
>
--
Jon Haddad
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
twitter: rustyrazorblade
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Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Russell Bateman <ru...@windofkeltia.com>.
Support for, but not the very script, right? Because, as gently pointed
out by several realists here, Python 2 is far from dead and arguably
still the majority usage. That's only just now beginning to change. I
think it will be more than 2 years before people begin asking what
Python 2 was.
On 06/01/2018 10:10 AM, Jonathan Haddad wrote:
> Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
> next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
> some point.
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
>> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
>> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
>> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
>> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
>> no announced release date).
>>
>> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
>> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
>>
>> - Micke
>>
>>
>> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
>>> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
>>>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
>>>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
>>>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
>>>> and that's not a positive thing.
>>>>
>>> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
>>>
>>>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
>> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
>> the 3.5 series. -
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Python_3
>>> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
>> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/7.5_release_notes/chap-red_hat_enterprise_linux-7.5_release_notes-deprecated_functionality
>> ).
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>>
>> --
> Jon Haddad
> http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
> twitter: rustyrazorblade
>
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Jonathan Haddad <jo...@jonhaddad.com>.
Supporting both as a next step is logical, removing support for 2 in the
next year or two seems reasonable enough. Gotta rip the band aid off at
some point.
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:34 AM Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
> replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
> refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
> appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
> not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
> no announced release date).
>
> Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
> deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
>
> - Micke
>
>
> On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> > On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
> >> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
> >> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
> >> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
> >> and that's not a positive thing.
> >>
> > Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> >
> >> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and
> the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to
> the 3.5 series. -
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Python_3
> > RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/7.5_release_notes/chap-red_hat_enterprise_linux-7.5_release_notes-deprecated_functionality
> ).
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cassandra.apache.org
>
> --
Jon Haddad
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
twitter: rustyrazorblade
Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>.
Hi,
Deprecating in this context does not mean removing it or it being
replaced by 3 (RHEL 7.x will remain with Python 2.x as default). It
refers to future versions (>7), but there are none at this point. It
appears Ubuntu has deviated from Debian in this sense, but Debian has
not changed yet (likely Debian 10 will, but that's not out yet and has
no announced release date).
Thus, 2.x still remains the most used version for servers. And servers
deployed at this point of time will use these versions for years.
- Micke
On 06/01/2018 10:52 AM, Murukesh Mohanan wrote:
> On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
>> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
>> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
>> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
>> and that's not a positive thing.
>>
> Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
>
>> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to the 3.5 series. - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Python_3
> RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/7.5_release_notes/chap-red_hat_enterprise_linux-7.5_release_notes-deprecated_functionality).
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Murukesh Mohanan <mu...@gmail.com>.
On 2018/06/01 07:40:04, Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
> think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
> happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
> would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
> and that's not a positive thing.
>
Ubuntu since 16.04 defaults to Python 3:
> Python2 is not installed anymore by default on the server, cloud and the touch images, long live Python3! Python3 itself has been upgraded to the 3.5 series. - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Python_3
RHEL 7.5 deprecates Python 2 (https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/7.5_release_notes/chap-red_hat_enterprise_linux-7.5_release_notes-deprecated_functionality).
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Re: Planning to port cqlsh to Python 3 (CASSANDRA-10190)
Posted by Michael Burman <mi...@redhat.com>.
Hi,
Should definitely be cross compatible with Python 2/3. Most of the
systems (such as those running on RHEL7 or distros based on it like
CentOS) are shipping with 2.7 only by default. And these systems are
probably going to be used for a long time to run Cassandra.
IIRC, there's no major distribution yet that defaults to Python 3 (I
think Ubuntu & Debian are still defaulting to Python 2 also). This will
happen eventually (maybe), but not yet. Discarding Python 2 support
would mean more base-OS work for most people wanting to run Cassandra
and that's not a positive thing.
For future, 2 & 3 compatibility would mean that we support larger amount
of distributions out of the box.
- Micke
On 06/01/2018 05:44 AM, Patrick Bannister wrote:
> I propose porting cqlsh and cqlshlib to Python 3. End-of-life for Python 2.7
> <https://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/> is currently planned for 1
> January 2020. We should prepare to port the tool to a version of Python
> that will be officially supported.
>
> I'm seeking input on three questions:
> - Should we port it to straight Python 3, or Python 2/3 cross compatible?
> - How much more testing is needed?
> - Can we wait until after 4.0 for this?
>
> I have an implementation
> <https://github.com/ptbannister/cassandra/tree/cqlshlib3> to go with my
> proposal. In parallel with getting the dtest cqlsh_tests working again, I
> ported cqlsh.py and cqlshlib to Python 3. It passes with almost all of the
> dtests and the unittests, so it's in pretty good shape, although it's not
> 100% done (more on that below).
>
> *Python 3 or 2/3 cross compatible?* There are plenty of examples of Python
> libraries that are compatible with both Python 2 and Python 3 (notably the
> Cassandra Python driver), so I think this is achievable. The question is,
> do we want to pay the price of cross compatibility? If we write cqlsh to be
> 2/3 cross compatible, we'll carry a long term technical debt to maintain
> that feature. The value of continuing to support Python 2 will diminish
> over time. However, a cross compatible implementation may ease the
> transition for some users, especially if there are users who have made
> significant custom modifications to the Python 2.7 implementation of cqlsh,
> so I think we must at least consider the question.
>
> *What additional testing is needed before we could release it?* I used
> coverage.py to check on the code coverage of our existing dtest cqlsh_tests
> and cqlshlib unittests. There are several blind spots in our current
> testing that should be addressed before we release a port of cqlsh. Details
> of this are available on JIRA ticket CASSANDRA-10190
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190> in the attachment
> coverage_notes.txt
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12926015/coverage_notes.txt>.
> Beyond that, I've made no efforts to test on platforms other than Ubuntu
> and CentOS, so Windows testing is needed if we're making efforts to support
> Windows. It would also be preferable for some real users to try out the
> port before it replaces the Python 2.7 cqlsh in a release.
>
> Besides this, there are a couple of test failures I'm still trying to
> figure out, notably tests involving user defined map types (a task made
> more interesting by Python's general lack of support for immutable map
> types).
>
> *Can we wait until after 4.0 for this?* I don't think it's reasonable to
> try to release this with 4.0 given the current consensus around a feature
> freeze in the next few months. My feeling is that our testers and
> committers are already very busy with the currently planned changes for
> 4.0. I recommend planning toward a release to occur after 4.0. If we run up
> against Python 2.7 EOL before we can cut the next release, we could
> consider releasing a ported cqlsh independently, for installation through
> distutils or pip.
>
> Patrick Bannister
>
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