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Posted to jetspeed-dev@portals.apache.org by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org> on 2005/06/14 11:30:46 UTC
[jira] Created: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Key: JS2-292
URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
Project: Jetspeed 2
Type: Sub-task
Components: Bridges
Versions: 2.0-M3
Reporter: Ate Douma
Assigned to: Roger Ruttimann
Priority: Blocker
Fix For: 2.0-M4
This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "David Sean Taylor (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313616 ]
David Sean Taylor commented on JS2-292:
---------------------------------------
Again, its just a jar file, its just another dependency like HTTP Client or Castor.
It just seems very restrictive to say "Component JARs from the Jetspeed project will NEVER be allowed in this project"
but then we allow dependencies on jars from other Jakarta projects.
Since the rewriter is not dependent on Jetspeed-2, maybe we need to have another place for components that are used by both Bridges and J2.
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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Re: [jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component
dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Raphaël Luta wrote:
> [commenting on mailing list directly because JIRA makes a poor tool for
> long discussions...]
Agreed. Much easier this way.
>
> Ate Douma (JIRA) wrote:
>
>> But Raphaël, could you elaborate a bit more about your option #3
>> suggestion:
>>
>>> - move rewriter to a new source root, either a Portals commons area or
>
> >> simply Jakarta Commons and release rewriter from there.
>
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Now option #3 is very easy to do, we can use general@portals as our
>
> >>"commons" mailing list just like I think "portlet-api" should be
> moved there.
>
>>
>>
>> This isn't completely clear to me: are you suggesting now we create a new
>
> > Portals Commons project in which we can host the portlet-api as well
> > as generic components like the rewriter? I'm not saying I would be
> > against it (on the contrary), but how is this (much) different from
> > the Gems proposal?
>
>> If you are serious about this, could you write up a formal proposal?
>
>
> OK, I'll ellaborate a bit on my statement:
>
> - first, from the ASF organisational point of view, there's no
> difference between Jetspeed, Bridges or Pluto. Everything is part
> in the Apache Portals top level project (TLP) and how we manage
> our "space" is our own business (Santiago being ultimately responsible
> for everything a "Apache VP for Portals").
> (You may have noted that the SVN authorization file doesn't make
> any difference between jetspeed, pluto and bridges)
I hadn't :-).
This now means anyone with commit rights within Portals can commit anywhere?
I think its a good idea to bring the teams closer to each other,
but I'm not so sure the Pluto team would like me to commit changes to their
codebase without prior notification (not that I intend to do so)...
>
> - historically, our Portals "space" has worked like Jakarta used to with
> each sub-project defined by a set of mailing-lists + a repository.
> This makes sense when each sub-project has (or may have in Bridges
> case) a non-overlapping developer and user community. However, this is
> *not* mandatory and there's actually a few existing examples at the
> ASF already (for example, try looking for the mailing-lists matching
> the Jakarta servlet-api repositories)
>
> - What I proposed as solution #3 was simply to create a new "directory"
> in the portals SVN to host shared code between the different Portals
> codebases. Since I don't think we'd have a lot of code there and
> there would be limited interest for external parties (ie parties not
> already interested in Jetspeed, bridges or pluto), I propose that we
> *don't* create new mailing-lists (or website) to start a new
> sub-community and simply use the general@portals.apache.org
> mailing-list as the common clearing-ground if needed.
Makes sense to me.
>
> IMO we could have a SVN repository like this:
>
> portals/
> site/ -> the main Portals website
>
> bridges/ -> the Portals "public" sub-projects
> jetspeed-1/
> jetspeed-2/
> pluto/
>
> portlet-api/ -> "private" sub-projects simply used
> utils/ to cleanly organise shared dependencies
> rewriter/ between all the sub-projects
>
> The "private" sub-projects would not have dedicated mailing-lists
> or website and simply use the global Portals resources (website and
> mailing-list) as needed.
>
> Note that any Portals committer has access to these repositories.
> We don't need any proposal to organise like this since this is simple
> artefact / dependency management, not an attempt to create a new
> community.
Alright, clear to me.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: [jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component
dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by Raphaël Luta <ra...@apache.org>.
[commenting on mailing list directly because JIRA makes a poor tool for
long discussions...]
Ate Douma (JIRA) wrote:
> But Raphaël, could you elaborate a bit more about your option #3 suggestion:
>
>>- move rewriter to a new source root, either a Portals commons area or
>> simply Jakarta Commons and release rewriter from there.
>
> ...
>
>>Now option #3 is very easy to do, we can use general@portals as our
>>"commons" mailing list just like I think "portlet-api" should be
moved there.
>
>
> This isn't completely clear to me: are you suggesting now we create a new
> Portals Commons project in which we can host the portlet-api as well
> as generic components like the rewriter? I'm not saying I would be
> against it (on the contrary), but how is this (much) different from
> the Gems proposal?
> If you are serious about this, could you write up a formal proposal?
>
OK, I'll ellaborate a bit on my statement:
- first, from the ASF organisational point of view, there's no
difference between Jetspeed, Bridges or Pluto. Everything is part
in the Apache Portals top level project (TLP) and how we manage
our "space" is our own business (Santiago being ultimately responsible
for everything a "Apache VP for Portals").
(You may have noted that the SVN authorization file doesn't make
any difference between jetspeed, pluto and bridges)
- historically, our Portals "space" has worked like Jakarta used to with
each sub-project defined by a set of mailing-lists + a repository.
This makes sense when each sub-project has (or may have in Bridges
case) a non-overlapping developer and user community. However, this is
*not* mandatory and there's actually a few existing examples at the
ASF already (for example, try looking for the mailing-lists matching
the Jakarta servlet-api repositories)
- What I proposed as solution #3 was simply to create a new "directory"
in the portals SVN to host shared code between the different Portals
codebases. Since I don't think we'd have a lot of code there and
there would be limited interest for external parties (ie parties not
already interested in Jetspeed, bridges or pluto), I propose that we
*don't* create new mailing-lists (or website) to start a new
sub-community and simply use the general@portals.apache.org
mailing-list as the common clearing-ground if needed.
IMO we could have a SVN repository like this:
portals/
site/ -> the main Portals website
bridges/ -> the Portals "public" sub-projects
jetspeed-1/
jetspeed-2/
pluto/
portlet-api/ -> "private" sub-projects simply used
utils/ to cleanly organise shared dependencies
rewriter/ between all the sub-projects
The "private" sub-projects would not have dedicated mailing-lists
or website and simply use the global Portals resources (website and
mailing-list) as needed.
Note that any Portals committer has access to these repositories.
We don't need any proposal to organise like this since this is simple
artefact / dependency management, not an attempt to create a new
community.
--
Raphaël Luta - raphael@apache.org
Apache Portals - Enterprise Portal in Java
http://portals.apache.org/
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313873 ]
Ate Douma commented on JS2-292:
-------------------------------
I think I'm gonna take David's advise and will pinpoint the perl bridge dependency on the jetspeed-rewriter-2.0-M3.jar for now, as its the easiest way out (for now).
But Raphaël, could you elaborate a bit more about your option #3 suggestion:
> - move rewriter to a new source root, either a Portals commons area or simply Jakarta Commons
> and release rewriter from there.
...
> Now option #3 is very easy to do, we can use general@portals as our "commons" mailing list
> just like I think "portlet-api" should be moved there.
This isn't completely clear to me: are you suggesting now we create a new Portals Commons project in which we can host the portlet-api as well as generic components like the rewriter? I'm not saying I would be against it (on the contrary), but how is this (much) different from the Gems proposal?
If you are serious about this, could you write up a formal proposal?
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Raphaël Luta (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313817 ]
Raphaël Luta commented on JS2-292:
----------------------------------
If I understand the discussion correctly, there's a build dependency oin the rewriter that can only
be resolved by having the resolver released as an independant artefact that can be used by
both Jetspeed 2 and Bridges.
Is this correct ?
So our options for handling this are :
- keep it in Jetspeed, release it as a separate artefact and have Bridges build on it, dealing
with the cyclical dependency in some way.
- move rewriter into Bridges, have it released from Bridges, have Jetspeed depend on this Bridges
artefact, no cyclical dependency
- move rewriter to a new source root, either a Portals commons area or simply Jakarta Commons
and release rewriter from there.
I honestly don't see it as a big issue since SVN allows anybody to check out directly
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/jetspeed-2/trunk/components/rewriter/ and build it from
there without checking out the whole J2 tree (assuming the maven config of rewriter can work
stand-alone).out
Now option #3 is very easy to do, we can use general@portals as our "commons" mailing list
just like I think "portlet-api" should be moved there.
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "David Sean Taylor (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313593 ]
David Sean Taylor commented on JS2-292:
---------------------------------------
Excuse me, but this requirement seems kind of excessive.
I dont remember writing anything into the charter saying that Portals Bridges cant have dependencies on Jetspeed-2 components.
Why not simply put a dependency on the M3 released jar?
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313604 ]
Ate Douma commented on JS2-292:
-------------------------------
Well, I do remember this to be an important aspect in the discussion on general@portals.apache.org when the promotion of Bridges was voted on.
Casten Ziegler and Raphael Luta were even quite specific on this to be a requirement for their support.
The idea behind it was that Bridges should be Portal independent.
Furthermore, in the original proposal (by me) on the Jetspeed-2 mailing list from which eventually the Bridges proposal emerged, I also proposed that the Bridges should not contain any J2 specific code.
I agree that the charter says nothing about it (at least if you refer to this: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/site/forms/bridges.txt, I don't know any other document).
But then, that document doesn't say anything about intend or scope of the project.
I don't want to make this into a nitpicking issue, but there is one other reason why I don't like a dependency on Jetspeed-2 in Bridges:
to be able to build Jetspeed-2, you need to have the Bridges build. And now also the other way around.
Of course, this can be resolved by carefully building individual parts of each project but I don't like circular dependencies like this.
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "David Sean Taylor (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313719 ]
David Sean Taylor commented on JS2-292:
---------------------------------------
> The rewriter component is *part of* the Jetspeed-2 project, even if not dependent on Jetspeed itself, and not released independently (right now).
Yes, and my argument is that a component jar from Jetspeed, being a POJO, can be used in other portals.
>The Jetspeed-2 perl (demo) application depends on both the rewriter component and the perl bridge.
> You can define a build dependency for the perl bridge on an "older" version of the rewriter component as you suggest but then I expect you do want to build
> the perl demo
> using the latest version of the rewriter component...
> Or, you must guarantee never to change the (used) rewriter api anymore.
This seems to fall under the general dependency chain problem space and its not specific to Jetspeed
> Anyways, I do think this is an important structural issue.
> And I agree that the most logical solution would be having a common place for components used by both Bridges and J2.
> The Gems proposal could have saved us here...
Ugh, don't get me started again. I just starting whining and someone will have to slap me :)
> Maybe we can/should expand the charter of the Bridges project and allow components in like the rewriter. But then,
> "Bridges" isn't really covering the intend anymore.
I have issue from the stand point of a Bridges developer.
I dont like having the restriction that I can't use components from the Jetspeed Portal.
Seems we are mixing two different things here:
1. The requirement for the Bridges project (which I support) that bridges should run in other portals besides Jetspeed
2. The restriction that you cannot use Jetspeed components in a bridge
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Commented: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=comments#action_12313633 ]
Ate Douma commented on JS2-292:
-------------------------------
I agree with you that "Component JARs from the Jetspeed project will NEVER be allowed in this project" is too restrictive.
But, there is a major difference (right now) when you compare the rewriter component with others like Castor or HTTP Client.
The rewriter component is *part of* the Jetspeed-2 project, even if not dependent on Jetspeed itself, and not released independently (right now).
The Jetspeed-2 perl (demo) application depends on both the rewriter component and the perl bridge.
You can define a build dependency for the perl bridge on an "older" version of the rewriter component as you suggest but then I expect you do want to build the perl demo
using the latest version of the rewriter component...
Or, you must guarantee never to change the (used) rewriter api anymore.
Anyways, I do think this is an important structural issue.
And I agree that the most logical solution would be having a common place for components used by both Bridges and J2.
The Gems proposal could have saved us here...
Maybe we can/should expand the charter of the Bridges project and allow components in like the rewriter. But then, "Bridges" isn't really covering the intend anymore.
I think it best to bring this issue to the general mailing list as I find the scope and possible impact of the solution far too important.
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Roger Ruttimann
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Assigned: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=all ]
Ate Douma reassigned JS2-292:
-----------------------------
Assign To: Ate Douma (was: Roger Ruttimann)
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Ate Douma
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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[jira] Resolved: (JS2-292) Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
Posted by "Ate Douma (JIRA)" <je...@portals.apache.org>.
[ http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292?page=all ]
Ate Douma resolved JS2-292:
---------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
Resolved by pinning the dependency on released jetspeed-rewriter-2.0-M3.jar
> Remove jetspeed-2 rewriter component dependency from the perl bridge
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: JS2-292
> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JS2-292
> Project: Jetspeed 2
> Type: Sub-task
> Components: Bridges
> Versions: 2.0-M3
> Reporter: Ate Douma
> Assignee: Ate Douma
> Priority: Blocker
> Fix For: 2.0-M4
>
> This dependency BLOCKS the move of the bridges to its own subproject!
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