Mapping workbench, finally

["Florian Bruckner (apache.org)" <fl...@apache.org>]

Hi,

I am crossposting this intentionally to users AND dev-list as I hope I can
get some more attention for this message. This is just meant to start the
discussion, please let us discuss these matters on the dev list.

Recently a some graphical tools popped up that all claim to solve specific
problems concerning repository mappings. It is good to see that OJB has a
growing user base and that there is increasing willingness to contribute to
the success of OJB. On the other hand it makes me somewhat sad that these
effort are all but coordinated. For example there is a plugin for eclipse
that is based on reversedb (see below), Mathias undoubtedly put in a lot of
effort to fix bugs and make the classes work for his purpose. But neither
have any bugs ever been discussed on any public mailing list nor have the
bugfixes made it back to the codebase of reversedb. The result is lost
effort on both sides and software that is less functional than it could be.

OJB currently has (and has had for a long time now) two flavours of a
mapping workbench. Reversedb is a simple (slow and buggy) application to
read a database schema and generate XML and java classes. Reversedb2 is a
rough prototype for a mapping workbench with a better design than reversedb.
Both applications suffer from the fact that design and implementation have
been made by a single person (me). The design is possibly even broken in a
way that makes it impossible to implement certain requirements.

I understand that it is a problem for a lot of people to contribute to a
piece of software where they have not been able to contribute during the
design phase and when they think they could have done better. Let's throw
away all we have and start over again.

This email should be seen as a call for a discussion. Let's discuss what the
requirements to a mapping workbench are, let's discuss the goals and how
these goals can be achieved, let's discuss who can take which role in such
an effort, let's discuss a design and let's make the best mapping tool
possible. And let's combine our efforts.

regards,

Florian

AW: Mapping workbench, finally

[Florian Bruckner <bf...@florianbruckner.com>]

Hi James,

> I don't know what you intend to use (Swing, AWT, web-based) for this new
> tool.  But if you decide to go with a web-based (Struts) version, I will
> help as much as I can.

I do not know what it will be based on, but I doubt it will be a web
application for several reasons. Firstly, and most important, you should be
able to use it without a need to have a running and working app server. But
eventually our tool could have sort of struts support, Matthias is already
generating ActionForms from his tool, so there is no reason why this
function shouldn't be in a more complete tool.

regards,

Florian

>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Developer/Struts Evangelist
> http://www.open-tools.org
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Florian Bruckner (apache.org)" <fl...@apache.org>
> To: <oj...@db.apache.org>; "OJB Developers List"
> <oj...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:24 AM
> Subject: Mapping workbench, finally
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am crossposting this intentionally to users AND dev-list as I
> hope I can
> > get some more attention for this message. This is just meant to
> start the
> > discussion, please let us discuss these matters on the dev list.
> >
> > Recently a some graphical tools popped up that all claim to
> solve specific
> > problems concerning repository mappings. It is good to see that
> OJB has a
> > growing user base and that there is increasing willingness to contribute
> to
> > the success of OJB. On the other hand it makes me somewhat sad
> that these
> > effort are all but coordinated. For example there is a plugin
> for eclipse
> > that is based on reversedb (see below), Mathias undoubtedly put in a lot
> of
> > effort to fix bugs and make the classes work for his purpose.
> But neither
> > have any bugs ever been discussed on any public mailing list
> nor have the
> > bugfixes made it back to the codebase of reversedb. The result is lost
> > effort on both sides and software that is less functional than it could
> be.
> >
> > OJB currently has (and has had for a long time now) two flavours of a
> > mapping workbench. Reversedb is a simple (slow and buggy) application to
> > read a database schema and generate XML and java classes.
> Reversedb2 is a
> > rough prototype for a mapping workbench with a better design than
> reversedb.
> > Both applications suffer from the fact that design and
> implementation have
> > been made by a single person (me). The design is possibly even
> broken in a
> > way that makes it impossible to implement certain requirements.
> >
> > I understand that it is a problem for a lot of people to contribute to a
> > piece of software where they have not been able to contribute during the
> > design phase and when they think they could have done better.
> Let's throw
> > away all we have and start over again.
> >
> > This email should be seen as a call for a discussion. Let's discuss what
> the
> > requirements to a mapping workbench are, let's discuss the goals and how
> > these goals can be achieved, let's discuss who can take which
> role in such
> > an effort, let's discuss a design and let's make the best mapping tool
> > possible. And let's combine our efforts.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Florian
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-dev-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-dev-help@db.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-dev-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
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>

Re: Mapping workbench, finally

[James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>]

One way we (Struts dudes) get more involvement with developers without
having to go through the committer routine is host a project on
sourceforge.net called (surprisingly enough) "Struts" where anyone can
become a committer and work on whatever they like (Struts related of
course).

I'm interested to see where this (Mapping Workbench) effort goes.  If you've
followed Struts, you know there are many GUI tools/IDE plug-ins to help with
configuration (struts-config, tiles, validation, etc).

Take (for example) the Struts Console by James Holmes.  It's not open
source, but it's free and well supported.  He releases new versions and bug
fixes almost monthly.  From all indications, (that I've seen) it is the most
widely used of all other Struts Configuration tools today.

I don't know what you intend to use (Swing, AWT, web-based) for this new
tool.  But if you decide to go with a web-based (Struts) version, I will
help as much as I can.


--
James Mitchell
Software Developer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org



----- Original Message -----
From: "Florian Bruckner (apache.org)" <fl...@apache.org>
To: <oj...@db.apache.org>; "OJB Developers List" <oj...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:24 AM
Subject: Mapping workbench, finally


> Hi,
>
> I am crossposting this intentionally to users AND dev-list as I hope I can
> get some more attention for this message. This is just meant to start the
> discussion, please let us discuss these matters on the dev list.
>
> Recently a some graphical tools popped up that all claim to solve specific
> problems concerning repository mappings. It is good to see that OJB has a
> growing user base and that there is increasing willingness to contribute
to
> the success of OJB. On the other hand it makes me somewhat sad that these
> effort are all but coordinated. For example there is a plugin for eclipse
> that is based on reversedb (see below), Mathias undoubtedly put in a lot
of
> effort to fix bugs and make the classes work for his purpose. But neither
> have any bugs ever been discussed on any public mailing list nor have the
> bugfixes made it back to the codebase of reversedb. The result is lost
> effort on both sides and software that is less functional than it could
be.
>
> OJB currently has (and has had for a long time now) two flavours of a
> mapping workbench. Reversedb is a simple (slow and buggy) application to
> read a database schema and generate XML and java classes. Reversedb2 is a
> rough prototype for a mapping workbench with a better design than
reversedb.
> Both applications suffer from the fact that design and implementation have
> been made by a single person (me). The design is possibly even broken in a
> way that makes it impossible to implement certain requirements.
>
> I understand that it is a problem for a lot of people to contribute to a
> piece of software where they have not been able to contribute during the
> design phase and when they think they could have done better. Let's throw
> away all we have and start over again.
>
> This email should be seen as a call for a discussion. Let's discuss what
the
> requirements to a mapping workbench are, let's discuss the goals and how
> these goals can be achieved, let's discuss who can take which role in such
> an effort, let's discuss a design and let's make the best mapping tool
> possible. And let's combine our efforts.
>
> regards,
>
> Florian
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-dev-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-dev-help@db.apache.org