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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by "Pilgrim, Peter" <pe...@csfb.com> on 2004/11/30 12:23:35 UTC
RE: Spring dreaming (was Second call: add "generic" mapped
proper ty to ActionConfig)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham [mailto:grahamdavid1980@yahoo.com]
===
>
>
> --- Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree with Don's assessment, but wanted to add an FYI
> note -- Shale
> > does zero-config for #3 (because the mapping between a JSP page and
> > the corresponding ViewController is implicit), and doesn't
> require #1
> > unless you need it for doing Commons Validator stuff.
> >
> > Simpler is definitely better.
>
> But is adding yet another framework to Struts simplifying
> anything for the
> user or just for us developers? If we add Spring, we would
> need to know
> the following to write a Struts webapp:
> 1. struts-config.xml
> 2. validator-rules.xml
> 3. spring.xml (or whatever they call the config file)
> 4. possibly tiles-config.xml
> 5. possibly jsf config files
>
> How is learning and remembering up to 5 different configuration files
> better for the user? If I was put in this position, I would seriously
> consider other ways of writing Java webapps.
XML configuration cannot replace traditional programming.
You can quote me on that.
==////==
XML configuration cannot replace programming
--
Peter Pilgrim
Operations/IT - Credit Suisse First Boston,
10 South Colonnade, London E14 4QJ, United Kingdom
Tel: +44-(0)207-883-4497
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Re: [OT] Metadata Musings.... (was Spring etc)
Posted by Vic <vi...@friendvu.com>.
repost (gmane)
> Flex just does that, it is declerative programing language. I think
> it is the far future (I think SoA is up 1st).
>
> http://livedocs.macromedia.com/flex/15/asdocs_en/mxml-tags.html
It even has a repeater xml
>
> .V
>
>> <quote>
>> XML configuration cannot replace traditional programming.
>> </quote>
>>
>
>
>
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[OT] Metadata Musings.... (was Spring etc)
Posted by Duncan Mills <du...@oracle.com>.
<quote>
XML configuration cannot replace traditional programming.
</quote>
I'd rephrase that slightly as:
XML configuration cannot completely replace traditional programming.
The issue being here that with the right frameworks and tooling you can
go a long way to eliminating all code except that which actually is
unique to your business problem and is not worth describing in those
common terms. Everything is an abstraction, XML metadata is just a at
higher level. I personally feel that the more configuration and logic
you can describe through some sort of metadata the better, under the
proviso that the metadata you are dealing with is not more complex than
the code you're substituting for, but that's just me.
Regards
Duncan Mills
Pilgrim, Peter wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David Graham [mailto:grahamdavid1980@yahoo.com]
>>
>>
>===
>
>
>>--- Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I agree with Don's assessment, but wanted to add an FYI
>>>
>>>
>>note -- Shale
>>
>>
>>>does zero-config for #3 (because the mapping between a JSP page and
>>>the corresponding ViewController is implicit), and doesn't
>>>
>>>
>>require #1
>>
>>
>>>unless you need it for doing Commons Validator stuff.
>>>
>>>Simpler is definitely better.
>>>
>>>
>>But is adding yet another framework to Struts simplifying
>>anything for the
>>user or just for us developers? If we add Spring, we would
>>need to know
>>the following to write a Struts webapp:
>>1. struts-config.xml
>>2. validator-rules.xml
>>3. spring.xml (or whatever they call the config file)
>>4. possibly tiles-config.xml
>>5. possibly jsf config files
>>
>>How is learning and remembering up to 5 different configuration files
>>better for the user? If I was put in this position, I would seriously
>>consider other ways of writing Java webapps.
>>
>>
>
>XML configuration cannot replace traditional programming.
>
>You can quote me on that.
>
>==////==
>
>XML configuration cannot replace programming
>
>--
>Peter Pilgrim
>Operations/IT - Credit Suisse First Boston,
>10 South Colonnade, London E14 4QJ, United Kingdom
>Tel: +44-(0)207-883-4497
>
>==============================================================================
>This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
>this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
>misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
>retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
>Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
>are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure.
>==============================================================================
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: Spring dreaming (was Second call: add "generic" mapped proper ty to ActionConfig)
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:23:35 +0000, Pilgrim, Peter wrote:
>> How is learning and remembering up to 5 different configuration
>> files better for the user? If I was put in this position, I
>> would seriously consider other ways of writing Java webapps.
>>
>
> XML configuration cannot replace traditional programming.
>
> You can quote me on that.
>
> ==////==
>
> XML configuration cannot replace programming
We're not talking about programming, but configuration. OOP defines a program as a graph of objects. The XML configuration is a convenient way to define the graph of objects we are using to solve the problem.
Meanwhile, IoC containers, like Spring, have become the conventional way to create the objects we need at runtime. Some factories can be configured from an XML document, others can be configured by direct calls to the Spring API. Everybody wins :)
-Ted.
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