Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[Arik Kfir <ar...@users.sourceforge.net>]

Glen Tulukin wrote:

>"Apache Forrest is an XML standards-oriented documentation framework based
>upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and schemas, images and other
>resources. Forrest uses these to render the source content into a website
>via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. " -- it's on the
>forrest.apache.org. The word "documentation" is restrictive/confusing for a
>new commer. I am lucky to have Vadim Gritsenko in the next cubical (he is
>frequent contributor to Cocoon, if somebody does not know) who can explain
>that "Forrest is Cocoon plus three skins plus ready-to-use sitemap. Do with
>Forrest whatever you would do with Cocoon. People mainly use it for
>documentation and you are the first one I know who uses Forrest for _real_
>website generation."
>  
>
Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm 
heading our Java technologies
team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that contains 
all the resources a Java developer
here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, documentations, 
links, work procedures, how-tos,
etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which 
resembles Maven (only we did it
four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use 
almost all Forrest features such as
skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java 
Servlets code running in the same
web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, we're 
anxious for the plugin-concept to come
out...

Just wanted to make ya Forrest devs feel proud ;-)

>Then welcome more patchers with more attractive product idea. I suggest to
>replace "documentation" with "content generation and management": "Apache
>Forrest is an XML standards-oriented ***content generation and management***
>framework based upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and schemas,
>images and other resources. Forrest uses these to render the source content
>into a website via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. "
>
>Glen
>  
>
Love it.

cheers ;-)

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[Arik Kfir <ar...@users.sourceforge.net>]

David Crossley wrote:

> Arik Kfir wrote:
>
>> Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm 
>> heading our Java technologies
>> team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that 
>> contains all the resources a Java developer
>> here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, 
>> documentations, links, work procedures, how-tos,
>> etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which 
>> resembles Maven (only we did it
>> four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use 
>> almost all Forrest features such as
>> skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java 
>> Servlets code running in the same
>> web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, 
>> we're anxious for the plugin-concept to come
>> out...
>>
>> Just wanted to make ya Forrest devs feel proud ;-)
>
>
> Thanks Arik, we do. What a shame that you cannot add
> your site to our Examples page. We should do what the
> Apache Cococoon project is just starting. Enable users
> to add descriptions of intranet sites.
>
> --David
>
>
I agree. I think I read somewhere in the Forrest dream tasks that ASF 
should provide a stronger foundation for open-source development, 
something similar to what sourceforge had done - and Forrest does seem 
to lay a good foundation to that.

Alas - I feel I was born a few years too early ;-)

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>]

Arik Kfir wrote:
> Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm 
> heading our Java technologies
> team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that contains 
> all the resources a Java developer
> here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, documentations, 
> links, work procedures, how-tos,
> etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which 
> resembles Maven (only we did it
> four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use 
> almost all Forrest features such as
> skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java 
> Servlets code running in the same
> web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, we're 
> anxious for the plugin-concept to come
> out...
> 
> Just wanted to make ya Forrest devs feel proud ;-)

Thanks Arik, we do. What a shame that you cannot add
your site to our Examples page. We should do what the
Apache Cococoon project is just starting. Enable users
to add descriptions of intranet sites.

--David

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>]

Glen Tulukin wrote:
> I knew that -- there are people who use Forrest for *real* site generation.
> We can argue about the term "documentation" but the *real" site hardly can
> be called *documentation* -- IMHO. I like suggested "Apache Forrest is a
> content presentation framework that is able to render complete and
> consistent websites, documents and reports by keeping the content separate
> from the style. "
> 
> I'll ask client's (actually I have two clients) permission to post a link to
> their web site. Next to the link to the web site I suggest to have short
> description what they did/used/how customized Forrest.

That would be great. Send a patch or just the text.

> Glen
> 
> P.S. One of clients is graphic design and signmaking company -- they can do
> t-shirts. I ordered one for myself with text "See FoRRest for the xml trees"
> that I proudly wear at this very moment.

That is confusing. Our "Forrest" has nothing to do
with trees, rather that is "forest".

> I can ask if they can do more but I
> guess they need some kind of permission from ASF

If they use the Apache feather logo.

--David

>... But use the slogan if
> you like.

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[Glen Tulukin <gl...@iteclectic.com>]

I knew that -- there are people who use Forrest for *real* site generation.
We can argue about the term "documentation" but the *real" site hardly can
be called *documentation* -- IMHO. I like suggested "Apache Forrest is a
content presentation framework that is able to render complete and
consistent websites, documents and reports by keeping the content separate
from the style. "

I'll ask client's (actually I have two clients) permission to post a link to
their web site. Next to the link to the web site I suggest to have short
description what they did/used/how customized Forrest.

Glen

P.S. One of clients is graphic design and signmaking company -- they can do
t-shirts. I ordered one for myself with text "See FoRRest for the xml trees"
that I proudly wear at this very moment. I can ask if they can do more but I
guess they need some kind of permission from ASF... But use the slogan if
you like.


"Arik Kfir" <ar...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:41ADA94F.7020509@users.sourceforge.net...
> Glen Tulukin wrote:
>
> >"Apache Forrest is an XML standards-oriented documentation framework
based
> >upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and schemas, images and
other
> >resources. Forrest uses these to render the source content into a website
> >via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. " -- it's on the
> >forrest.apache.org. The word "documentation" is restrictive/confusing for
a
> >new commer. I am lucky to have Vadim Gritsenko in the next cubical (he is
> >frequent contributor to Cocoon, if somebody does not know) who can
explain
> >that "Forrest is Cocoon plus three skins plus ready-to-use sitemap. Do
with
> >Forrest whatever you would do with Cocoon. People mainly use it for
> >documentation and you are the first one I know who uses Forrest for
_real_
> >website generation."
> >
> >
> Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm
> heading our Java technologies
> team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that contains
> all the resources a Java developer
> here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, documentations,
> links, work procedures, how-tos,
> etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which
> resembles Maven (only we did it
> four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use
> almost all Forrest features such as
> skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java
> Servlets code running in the same
> web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, we're
> anxious for the plugin-concept to come
> out...
>
> Just wanted to make ya Forrest devs feel proud ;-)
>
> >Then welcome more patchers with more attractive product idea. I suggest
to
> >replace "documentation" with "content generation and management": "Apache
> >Forrest is an XML standards-oriented ***content generation and
management***
> >framework based upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and
schemas,
> >images and other resources. Forrest uses these to render the source
content
> >into a website via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. "
> >
> >Glen
> >
> >
> Love it.
>
> cheers ;-)
>
>

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[Arik Kfir <ar...@users.sourceforge.net>]

Ross Gardler wrote:

> Arik Kfir wrote:
>
>> Glen Tulukin wrote:
>>
>>> "Apache Forrest is an XML standards-oriented documentation framework 
>>> based
>>> upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and schemas, images 
>>> and other
>>> resources. Forrest uses these to render the source content into a 
>>> website
>>> via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. " -- it's on the
>>> forrest.apache.org. The word "documentation" is 
>>> restrictive/confusing for a
>>> new commer. I am lucky to have Vadim Gritsenko in the next cubical 
>>> (he is
>>> frequent contributor to Cocoon, if somebody does not know) who can 
>>> explain
>>> that "Forrest is Cocoon plus three skins plus ready-to-use sitemap. 
>>> Do with
>>> Forrest whatever you would do with Cocoon. People mainly use it for
>>> documentation and you are the first one I know who uses Forrest for 
>>> _real_
>>> website generation."
>>>  
>>>
>> Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm 
>> heading our Java technologies
>> team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that 
>> contains all the resources a Java developer
>> here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, 
>> documentations, links, work procedures, how-tos,
>> etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which 
>> resembles Maven (only we did it
>> four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use 
>> almost all Forrest features such as
>> skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java 
>> Servlets code running in the same
>> web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, 
>> we're anxious for the plugin-concept to come
>> out...
>
>
> Wow - this sounds really cool.
>
> The plugin infrastructure is reasonably well defined at this stage. We 
> have a number of plugins in 0.7-dev. If you would like to join us over 
> on the dev list I would be more than happy to assist you with any 
> plugins you want to build.
>
> Given you use case you may be interested in the (very new) logs 
> plugin. This is a plugin for displaying the output of log files in a 
> Forrest site. We use it to display the logs of the most recent 
> integration builds. At the moment it only supports the J2SE logging 
> format, but it's a relatively trivial thing to enable other formats.
>
> There is a How-To on building plugins, it's not available on the 
> public site yet, but if you have the SVN version of Forrest you have 
> it in your how-to directory. If not you can view the xdocs online at:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/forrest/trunk/docs-author/content/xdocs/howto/howto-howto.xml 
>
>
> Some more technical docs are available at:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/forrest/trunk/docs-author/content/xdocs/plugins/?rev=109331 
>
>
> Ross
>
>
10x, I'll take a look at that, though I'll probably have a hard time 
getting 0.7-dev into production use (we're already using 0.6 which is 
"kinda beta" so using 0.7-dev is kinda "beta-of-beta" if you catch my 
meaning ;-)

But we'll start playing with it so we'll be ready when it comes out. 
It's too bad we can't provide a link for your example sites (we're an 
offline site...)

cheers

Re: commercial Forrest skins?

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

Arik Kfir wrote:
> Glen Tulukin wrote:
> 
>> "Apache Forrest is an XML standards-oriented documentation framework 
>> based
>> upon Apache Cocoon, providing XSLT stylesheets and schemas, images and 
>> other
>> resources. Forrest uses these to render the source content into a website
>> via command-line, robot, or dynamic application. " -- it's on the
>> forrest.apache.org. The word "documentation" is restrictive/confusing 
>> for a
>> new commer. I am lucky to have Vadim Gritsenko in the next cubical (he is
>> frequent contributor to Cocoon, if somebody does not know) who can 
>> explain
>> that "Forrest is Cocoon plus three skins plus ready-to-use sitemap. Do 
>> with
>> Forrest whatever you would do with Cocoon. People mainly use it for
>> documentation and you are the first one I know who uses Forrest for 
>> _real_
>> website generation."
>>  
>>
> Umm....well actually we use Forrest for *real* site generation. I'm 
> heading our Java technologies
> team over at the Israeli AirForce and we maintain a site that contains 
> all the resources a Java developer
> here needs (something like an aggregation of articles, documentations, 
> links, work procedures, how-tos,
> etc).  We also implemented a continuous integration framework which 
> resembles Maven (only we did it
> four years ago ;-)) which integrates nicely into Forrest too. We use 
> almost all Forrest features such as
> skins, new DTDs/catalogs, and even integrated it with custom Java 
> Servlets code running in the same
> web app (in addition to using it for static content).  Actually, we're 
> anxious for the plugin-concept to come
> out...

Wow - this sounds really cool.

The plugin infrastructure is reasonably well defined at this stage. We 
have a number of plugins in 0.7-dev. If you would like to join us over 
on the dev list I would be more than happy to assist you with any 
plugins you want to build.

Given you use case you may be interested in the (very new) logs plugin. 
This is a plugin for displaying the output of log files in a Forrest 
site. We use it to display the logs of the most recent integration 
builds. At the moment it only supports the J2SE logging format, but it's 
a relatively trivial thing to enable other formats.

There is a How-To on building plugins, it's not available on the public 
site yet, but if you have the SVN version of Forrest you have it in your 
how-to directory. If not you can view the xdocs online at:

http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/forrest/trunk/docs-author/content/xdocs/howto/howto-howto.xml

Some more technical docs are available at:

http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/forrest/trunk/docs-author/content/xdocs/plugins/?rev=109331

Ross