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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> on 2012/10/12 17:21:11 UTC
github.com/CloudStack
Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
that is less confusing.
There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
the GPL.
Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
there any objection to this account being renamed to
cloudstack-extras?
Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
--David
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Thanks Shane. We'll work on a separate thread to clear up the branding
issues of this page, so that we don't have to change the URL again.
On 22 October 2012 15:04, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> (Please note the distribution lists used)
>
> First off, apologies for not weighing in sooner; it seemed last week that
> a simple rename was going to be done, which was a great place to start, so
> I figured the community could either speak up or provide some more details.
> And thank you both for recognizing and working to assuage each others'
> frustration. 8-)
>
> One question for my edification: is this github repo primarily bits of
> software that might be compiled into Apache Cloudstack directly (i.e. that
> Foo Co. is likely to take Cloudstack, take a bit of this repo, and build
> and sell some service directly based on the combined software product)? OR
> is this primarily for external add-ons or administrative bits that are used
> to build or maintain independent services that would live atop Cloudstack?
>
> ----
>
> Simply the name of the github repo is not necessarily a trademark issue.
> Fundamentally, trademarks are about preventing *user* confusion. I.e.
> trademarks are designed to ensure that an informed user (in this case,
> presumably a dev or sysadmin who wants to run a cloud) understands the
> source of goods - here, the Apache Cloudstack software product, which comes
> from the ASF and the Apache Cloudstack podling.
>
> Thus just the name of the github repo is only partly relevant to it's
> trademark 'importance' to the ASF. What's important is how the repo is
> presented to users, both in terms of the homepage and overview, and
> especially in terms of any obvious "download this product" pages.
>
> Without having read all of this thread yet or understanding exactly what
> kind of software is there, my first unofficial reaction would be that if
> the (P)PMC doesn't explicitly disapprove of the "
> github.com/cloudstack-extras" name, then it would be OK from the
> trademarks@ point of view as long as it is clearly branded to
> differentiate itself from Apache Cloudstack. For starters, the URL should
> generally comply with the domain name policy:
>
> http://www.apache.org/**foundation/marks/domains.html<http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/domains.html>
>
> (Note, the domain name policy is actually about domain.names, not /paths,
> however it has the clearest set of rules & rationales)
>
> Make sense?
>
> - Shane
>
>
> On 10/20/2012 5:17 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your note, David. I am sorry for not responding to the email
>> sooner. And I am sorry that I have caused you some frustration. You will
>> note that I have not given a -1 on the name, or even said that we cannot
>> do it.
>>
>> (Unless I explicitly put my mentor hat on, you can assume everything I
>> say is my personal opinion and not me "handing down" policy. I've only
>> been here five years, and I am learning the ropes in much the same way.)
>>
>> You are perhaps right that this name is nominative use. I think I would
>> be more convinced of that if the rest of the problems were sorted out.
>> My email was sent with the assumption that this name change was all you
>> had proposed to do. Clearly, that is not good enough, and you seem to
>> agree with me on that point. So perhaps there is no problem here.
>>
>> I also understand and agree with your reasoning that lazy consensus on
>> the actual name itself was a fine assumption to make given the lack of
>> response. Though, of course, lazy consensus does not mean members of the
>> community cannot voice their opinions after the fact, for whatever
>> reason. (My reason being inattentiveness, and not just trying to
>> be awkward.)
>>
>> There is a good chance that when Shane picks this up he, in his
>> typically good natured and informed perspective, confirms that
>> "cloudstack-extra" is okay as long as the rest of the page is fixed up
>> to indicate provenance and clearly set expectation for users, and
>> clearly indicate that "CloudStack" is a trademark of the Apache
>> CloudStack project. In which case, we don't have a problem. (Assuming
>> those things are done.)
>>
>> And my comment about my doing my job as a mentor poorly was a reaction
>> to what I perceived as you saying "if you care so much, you do it." And
>> the reason that is a problem for me is that my goal is to get the
>> community to care about these things, so that I don't have to. If that
>> makes sense. Though having said that, I am also interested in
>> contributing to the project in a wider sense. But I would feel more
>> comfortable doing that when I am confident the stuff I am doing would
>> happen anyway.
>>
>> Sorry if I've caused frustration, again. I can understand why you would
>> feel frustrated. That was not my intention.
>>
>> On 20 October 2012 21:43, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us
>> <ma...@gnsa.us>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org
>> <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>> > On 20 October 2012 18:10, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us
>> <ma...@gnsa.us>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater
>> <nslater@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>> >> > Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the
>> Apache
>> >> > CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's
>> input on this,
>> >> > which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
>> >>
>> >> This sat for over a week with nary a comment.
>> >
>> >
>> > I volunteer my time to this project. Any contributions I make are
>> on my own
>> > time. My employer does not pay me to contribute. CloudStack is
>> > an extremely high traffic project and I am doing the best I can to
>> > contribute to it.
>>
>> Let me say that I appreciate your contributions - much of our
>> readiness to release is because of your tireless efforts to point out
>> our problems - please don't take my frustration as frustration with
>> all of your contributions, or even that I disagree with you.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> I don't mean to vent my
>> >> frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
>> >> something
>> >
>> >
>> > I did.
>>
>> Forgive me for disagreeing - but there was nothing remotely negative
>> about your response.
>> http://markmail.org/message/**qs5wt2ucjjdj4tfp<http://markmail.org/message/qs5wt2ucjjdj4tfp>
>>
>> You said you were looping in someone else - expanding the audience,
>> not a bad thing - there was no indication that you thought that.
>>
>> One of the things you indicated was problematic in your earlier mail
>> was the account name github.com/cloudstack
>> <http://github.com/cloudstack> - which was all I was
>>
>> attempting to solve at this time. The rest still remain issues - but I
>> will discuss those in a bit in a followup to your earlier email.
>>
>> >
>> > I CCed Shane (our VP of Brand Management) because I wanted his
>> input. I
>> > brought up the concern previously on the mailing list, and
>> nothing much
>> > seemed to happen. This time, I thought I would loop Shane in to
>> clarify any
>> > questions. I guess he was busy too.
>> >
>> >
>> >> How long should I have waited?
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't know. But following up was another option. Sometimes
>> emails get
>> > lost in the noise. After 6 days you posted a note to say you were
>> going to
>> > go ahead and name the repos. You assumed lazy consensus, but I
>> think my
>> > previous notes to the list should have been indication enough
>> that we had
>> > not established consensus.
>>
>> This particular action (renaming the account) was taken in response to
>> your referenced email wherein you complained about the name.
>> Your note was not a -1 (and had it been, per
>> http://apache.org/foundation/**how-it-works.html#management<http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management>you should
>> have pointed out what the problems were with the account name choice
>> or offered an alternative. Your email in response to my proposal of
>> cloudstack-extras did neither of those, and no one from trademarks@
>> responded negatively either. How is one not supposed to assume that
>> there is lazy consensus to change the name to cloudstack-extras out of
>> that?) How is the account name cloudstack-extras not a nominative use
>> of the term CloudStack and pointing out that it is 'extra' the
>> definition of which means outside or in addition to. With the
>> exception of the CloudStack repo contained therein, all of the
>> included code is something outside of our in addition to CloudStack.
>> Every use of the word CloudStack is not a trademark violation - even
>> if it is in software.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> I could have left this as
>> >> github.com/cloudstack <http://github.com/cloudstack> and not
>>
>> spent the time and energy to make the
>> >> move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move
>> affects etc.
>> >>
>> >
>> > This isn't really an option, as I have outlined before.
>>
>> You are missing my point, I want the problem solved. I want folks to
>> realize that CloudStack is at the ASF and for their to be no brand
>> confusion. What I don't want to do is waste my time when I propose,
>> and then try and fix some of the problems you outline. I am willing to
>> do the work to get this done.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
>> >> exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose
>> things,
>> >> get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and
>> then
>> >> days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable.
>> >
>> >
>> > This is an unfair characterisation of my involvement. I have not
>> made any
>> > "demands" of you. I gave repeated, and detailed feedback on this
>> issue. But
>> > this seems to have been ignored.
>> >
>>
>> Not at all - this was actually an attempt to fix one of the github
>> issues. It wasn't an attempt to fix them all - it was an attempt to
>> change the name. In followup to that mail - I sent a mail to the list
>> saying I was going to do the work to change the name, I tossed out a
>> proposal and asked if there were any objections to the name. The only
>> email in response was one of you indicating you were copying
>> trademarks@ - otherwise nothing negative.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> To that end, I've
>> >> made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever
>> action
>> >> suits you.
>> >>
>> >
>> > This is a disappointing response. Of course, I will take no such
>> action.
>> > Despite the fact that I am not prepared to unilaterally change
>> something as
>> > important as this Github organisation without all the facts, my
>> aim is to
>> > help Apache CloudStack adjust to Apache. If the response to my
>> guidance is
>> > "oh well, you better fix it then" then I am obviously doing a
>> very poor job.
>>
>> My response is this:
>> I tried to remedy something you saw as a problem (the github account
>> name). I proposed a solution on list. I waited a week. I saw no
>> negative response to the name. I changed it. Two days after I changed
>> it you come back saying that is still a problem, but not suggesting
>> any alternatives for identifying a collection of repos for things that
>> are useful to CloudStack. I don't have any more suggestions to remedy
>> this. I do wish to empower you as a member and participant of this
>> community, who is doing work in this community, to not be blocked in
>> implementing a solution.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> > There are still several problems with this page:
>> >> >
>> >> > - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated
>> above. The
>> >> > Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But
>> Apache has no
>> >> > oversight for this repository, so it should clearly
>> indicate it's
>> >> > provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would,
>> >> incidentally,
>> >> > be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
>> >>
>> >> We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump
>> through the
>> >> hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with
>> this,
>> >> as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to
>> Citrix,
>> >> nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code
>> without
>> >> a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is
>> focused on
>> >> CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been
>> developed by
>> >> people working on and around cloudstack. For instance,
>> Edmunds.com,
>> >> Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no
>> Citrix
>> >> contributions whatsoever.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I don't know what to suggest then. Perhaps "cloudstack-extras" is
>> not such
>> > a big problem. I will defer to Shane, who has way more experience
>> with this
>> > than I do.
>>
>> This is essentially where I am at - I have no idea for a better name
>> that doesn't involve the word cloudstack for identifying this.
>> The remaining issues still do exist, and they still need to be solved,
>> and eventually we will.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> NS
>>
>
>
--
NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
(Please note the distribution lists used)
First off, apologies for not weighing in sooner; it seemed last week
that a simple rename was going to be done, which was a great place to
start, so I figured the community could either speak up or provide some
more details. And thank you both for recognizing and working to assuage
each others' frustration. 8-)
One question for my edification: is this github repo primarily bits of
software that might be compiled into Apache Cloudstack directly (i.e.
that Foo Co. is likely to take Cloudstack, take a bit of this repo, and
build and sell some service directly based on the combined software
product)? OR is this primarily for external add-ons or administrative
bits that are used to build or maintain independent services that would
live atop Cloudstack?
----
Simply the name of the github repo is not necessarily a trademark issue.
Fundamentally, trademarks are about preventing *user* confusion. I.e.
trademarks are designed to ensure that an informed user (in this case,
presumably a dev or sysadmin who wants to run a cloud) understands the
source of goods - here, the Apache Cloudstack software product, which
comes from the ASF and the Apache Cloudstack podling.
Thus just the name of the github repo is only partly relevant to it's
trademark 'importance' to the ASF. What's important is how the repo is
presented to users, both in terms of the homepage and overview, and
especially in terms of any obvious "download this product" pages.
Without having read all of this thread yet or understanding exactly what
kind of software is there, my first unofficial reaction would be that if
the (P)PMC doesn't explicitly disapprove of the
"github.com/cloudstack-extras" name, then it would be OK from the
trademarks@ point of view as long as it is clearly branded to
differentiate itself from Apache Cloudstack. For starters, the URL
should generally comply with the domain name policy:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/domains.html
(Note, the domain name policy is actually about domain.names, not
/paths, however it has the clearest set of rules & rationales)
Make sense?
- Shane
On 10/20/2012 5:17 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
> Thanks for your note, David. I am sorry for not responding to the email
> sooner. And I am sorry that I have caused you some frustration. You will
> note that I have not given a -1 on the name, or even said that we cannot
> do it.
>
> (Unless I explicitly put my mentor hat on, you can assume everything I
> say is my personal opinion and not me "handing down" policy. I've only
> been here five years, and I am learning the ropes in much the same way.)
>
> You are perhaps right that this name is nominative use. I think I would
> be more convinced of that if the rest of the problems were sorted out.
> My email was sent with the assumption that this name change was all you
> had proposed to do. Clearly, that is not good enough, and you seem to
> agree with me on that point. So perhaps there is no problem here.
>
> I also understand and agree with your reasoning that lazy consensus on
> the actual name itself was a fine assumption to make given the lack of
> response. Though, of course, lazy consensus does not mean members of the
> community cannot voice their opinions after the fact, for whatever
> reason. (My reason being inattentiveness, and not just trying to
> be awkward.)
>
> There is a good chance that when Shane picks this up he, in his
> typically good natured and informed perspective, confirms that
> "cloudstack-extra" is okay as long as the rest of the page is fixed up
> to indicate provenance and clearly set expectation for users, and
> clearly indicate that "CloudStack" is a trademark of the Apache
> CloudStack project. In which case, we don't have a problem. (Assuming
> those things are done.)
>
> And my comment about my doing my job as a mentor poorly was a reaction
> to what I perceived as you saying "if you care so much, you do it." And
> the reason that is a problem for me is that my goal is to get the
> community to care about these things, so that I don't have to. If that
> makes sense. Though having said that, I am also interested in
> contributing to the project in a wider sense. But I would feel more
> comfortable doing that when I am confident the stuff I am doing would
> happen anyway.
>
> Sorry if I've caused frustration, again. I can understand why you would
> feel frustrated. That was not my intention.
>
> On 20 October 2012 21:43, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us
> <ma...@gnsa.us>> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org
> <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> > On 20 October 2012 18:10, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us
> <ma...@gnsa.us>> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater
> <nslater@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> >> > Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the
> Apache
> >> > CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's
> input on this,
> >> > which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
> >>
> >> This sat for over a week with nary a comment.
> >
> >
> > I volunteer my time to this project. Any contributions I make are
> on my own
> > time. My employer does not pay me to contribute. CloudStack is
> > an extremely high traffic project and I am doing the best I can to
> > contribute to it.
>
> Let me say that I appreciate your contributions - much of our
> readiness to release is because of your tireless efforts to point out
> our problems - please don't take my frustration as frustration with
> all of your contributions, or even that I disagree with you.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> I don't mean to vent my
> >> frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
> >> something
> >
> >
> > I did.
>
> Forgive me for disagreeing - but there was nothing remotely negative
> about your response.
> http://markmail.org/message/qs5wt2ucjjdj4tfp
>
> You said you were looping in someone else - expanding the audience,
> not a bad thing - there was no indication that you thought that.
>
> One of the things you indicated was problematic in your earlier mail
> was the account name github.com/cloudstack
> <http://github.com/cloudstack> - which was all I was
> attempting to solve at this time. The rest still remain issues - but I
> will discuss those in a bit in a followup to your earlier email.
>
> >
> > I CCed Shane (our VP of Brand Management) because I wanted his
> input. I
> > brought up the concern previously on the mailing list, and
> nothing much
> > seemed to happen. This time, I thought I would loop Shane in to
> clarify any
> > questions. I guess he was busy too.
> >
> >
> >> How long should I have waited?
> >
> >
> > I don't know. But following up was another option. Sometimes
> emails get
> > lost in the noise. After 6 days you posted a note to say you were
> going to
> > go ahead and name the repos. You assumed lazy consensus, but I
> think my
> > previous notes to the list should have been indication enough
> that we had
> > not established consensus.
>
> This particular action (renaming the account) was taken in response to
> your referenced email wherein you complained about the name.
> Your note was not a -1 (and had it been, per
> http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management you should
> have pointed out what the problems were with the account name choice
> or offered an alternative. Your email in response to my proposal of
> cloudstack-extras did neither of those, and no one from trademarks@
> responded negatively either. How is one not supposed to assume that
> there is lazy consensus to change the name to cloudstack-extras out of
> that?) How is the account name cloudstack-extras not a nominative use
> of the term CloudStack and pointing out that it is 'extra' the
> definition of which means outside or in addition to. With the
> exception of the CloudStack repo contained therein, all of the
> included code is something outside of our in addition to CloudStack.
> Every use of the word CloudStack is not a trademark violation - even
> if it is in software.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> I could have left this as
> >> github.com/cloudstack <http://github.com/cloudstack> and not
> spent the time and energy to make the
> >> move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move
> affects etc.
> >>
> >
> > This isn't really an option, as I have outlined before.
>
> You are missing my point, I want the problem solved. I want folks to
> realize that CloudStack is at the ASF and for their to be no brand
> confusion. What I don't want to do is waste my time when I propose,
> and then try and fix some of the problems you outline. I am willing to
> do the work to get this done.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
> >> exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose
> things,
> >> get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and then
> >> days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable.
> >
> >
> > This is an unfair characterisation of my involvement. I have not
> made any
> > "demands" of you. I gave repeated, and detailed feedback on this
> issue. But
> > this seems to have been ignored.
> >
>
> Not at all - this was actually an attempt to fix one of the github
> issues. It wasn't an attempt to fix them all - it was an attempt to
> change the name. In followup to that mail - I sent a mail to the list
> saying I was going to do the work to change the name, I tossed out a
> proposal and asked if there were any objections to the name. The only
> email in response was one of you indicating you were copying
> trademarks@ - otherwise nothing negative.
>
>
> >
> >> To that end, I've
> >> made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever
> action
> >> suits you.
> >>
> >
> > This is a disappointing response. Of course, I will take no such
> action.
> > Despite the fact that I am not prepared to unilaterally change
> something as
> > important as this Github organisation without all the facts, my
> aim is to
> > help Apache CloudStack adjust to Apache. If the response to my
> guidance is
> > "oh well, you better fix it then" then I am obviously doing a
> very poor job.
>
> My response is this:
> I tried to remedy something you saw as a problem (the github account
> name). I proposed a solution on list. I waited a week. I saw no
> negative response to the name. I changed it. Two days after I changed
> it you come back saying that is still a problem, but not suggesting
> any alternatives for identifying a collection of repos for things that
> are useful to CloudStack. I don't have any more suggestions to remedy
> this. I do wish to empower you as a member and participant of this
> community, who is doing work in this community, to not be blocked in
> implementing a solution.
>
> >
> >
> >> > There are still several problems with this page:
> >> >
> >> > - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated
> above. The
> >> > Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But
> Apache has no
> >> > oversight for this repository, so it should clearly
> indicate it's
> >> > provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would,
> >> incidentally,
> >> > be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
> >>
> >> We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump
> through the
> >> hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with this,
> >> as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to
> Citrix,
> >> nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code
> without
> >> a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is
> focused on
> >> CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been
> developed by
> >> people working on and around cloudstack. For instance, Edmunds.com,
> >> Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no
> Citrix
> >> contributions whatsoever.
> >>
> >
> > I don't know what to suggest then. Perhaps "cloudstack-extras" is
> not such
> > a big problem. I will defer to Shane, who has way more experience
> with this
> > than I do.
>
> This is essentially where I am at - I have no idea for a better name
> that doesn't involve the word cloudstack for identifying this.
> The remaining issues still do exist, and they still need to be solved,
> and eventually we will.
>
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Thanks for your note, David. I am sorry for not responding to the email
sooner. And I am sorry that I have caused you some frustration. You will
note that I have not given a -1 on the name, or even said that we cannot do
it.
(Unless I explicitly put my mentor hat on, you can assume everything I say
is my personal opinion and not me "handing down" policy. I've only been
here five years, and I am learning the ropes in much the same way.)
You are perhaps right that this name is nominative use. I think I would be
more convinced of that if the rest of the problems were sorted out. My
email was sent with the assumption that this name change was all you had
proposed to do. Clearly, that is not good enough, and you seem to agree
with me on that point. So perhaps there is no problem here.
I also understand and agree with your reasoning that lazy consensus on the
actual name itself was a fine assumption to make given the lack of
response. Though, of course, lazy consensus does not mean members of the
community cannot voice their opinions after the fact, for whatever reason.
(My reason being inattentiveness, and not just trying to be awkward.)
There is a good chance that when Shane picks this up he, in his typically
good natured and informed perspective, confirms that "cloudstack-extra" is
okay as long as the rest of the page is fixed up to indicate provenance
and clearly set expectation for users, and clearly indicate that
"CloudStack" is a trademark of the Apache CloudStack project. In which
case, we don't have a problem. (Assuming those things are done.)
And my comment about my doing my job as a mentor poorly was a reaction to
what I perceived as you saying "if you care so much, you do it." And the
reason that is a problem for me is that my goal is to get the community to
care about these things, so that I don't have to. If that makes sense.
Though having said that, I am also interested in contributing to the
project in a wider sense. But I would feel more comfortable doing that when
I am confident the stuff I am doing would happen anyway.
Sorry if I've caused frustration, again. I can understand why you would
feel frustrated. That was not my intention.
On 20 October 2012 21:43, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 20 October 2012 18:10, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the Apache
> >> > CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's input on
> this,
> >> > which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
> >>
> >> This sat for over a week with nary a comment.
> >
> >
> > I volunteer my time to this project. Any contributions I make are on my
> own
> > time. My employer does not pay me to contribute. CloudStack is
> > an extremely high traffic project and I am doing the best I can to
> > contribute to it.
>
> Let me say that I appreciate your contributions - much of our
> readiness to release is because of your tireless efforts to point out
> our problems - please don't take my frustration as frustration with
> all of your contributions, or even that I disagree with you.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> I don't mean to vent my
> >> frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
> >> something
> >
> >
> > I did.
>
> Forgive me for disagreeing - but there was nothing remotely negative
> about your response.
> http://markmail.org/message/qs5wt2ucjjdj4tfp
>
> You said you were looping in someone else - expanding the audience,
> not a bad thing - there was no indication that you thought that.
>
> One of the things you indicated was problematic in your earlier mail
> was the account name github.com/cloudstack - which was all I was
> attempting to solve at this time. The rest still remain issues - but I
> will discuss those in a bit in a followup to your earlier email.
>
> >
> > I CCed Shane (our VP of Brand Management) because I wanted his input. I
> > brought up the concern previously on the mailing list, and nothing much
> > seemed to happen. This time, I thought I would loop Shane in to clarify
> any
> > questions. I guess he was busy too.
> >
> >
> >> How long should I have waited?
> >
> >
> > I don't know. But following up was another option. Sometimes emails get
> > lost in the noise. After 6 days you posted a note to say you were going
> to
> > go ahead and name the repos. You assumed lazy consensus, but I think my
> > previous notes to the list should have been indication enough that we had
> > not established consensus.
>
> This particular action (renaming the account) was taken in response to
> your referenced email wherein you complained about the name.
> Your note was not a -1 (and had it been, per
> http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management you should
> have pointed out what the problems were with the account name choice
> or offered an alternative. Your email in response to my proposal of
> cloudstack-extras did neither of those, and no one from trademarks@
> responded negatively either. How is one not supposed to assume that
> there is lazy consensus to change the name to cloudstack-extras out of
> that?) How is the account name cloudstack-extras not a nominative use
> of the term CloudStack and pointing out that it is 'extra' the
> definition of which means outside or in addition to. With the
> exception of the CloudStack repo contained therein, all of the
> included code is something outside of our in addition to CloudStack.
> Every use of the word CloudStack is not a trademark violation - even
> if it is in software.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> I could have left this as
> >> github.com/cloudstack and not spent the time and energy to make the
> >> move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move affects etc.
> >>
> >
> > This isn't really an option, as I have outlined before.
>
> You are missing my point, I want the problem solved. I want folks to
> realize that CloudStack is at the ASF and for their to be no brand
> confusion. What I don't want to do is waste my time when I propose,
> and then try and fix some of the problems you outline. I am willing to
> do the work to get this done.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
> >> exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose things,
> >> get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and then
> >> days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable.
> >
> >
> > This is an unfair characterisation of my involvement. I have not made any
> > "demands" of you. I gave repeated, and detailed feedback on this issue.
> But
> > this seems to have been ignored.
> >
>
> Not at all - this was actually an attempt to fix one of the github
> issues. It wasn't an attempt to fix them all - it was an attempt to
> change the name. In followup to that mail - I sent a mail to the list
> saying I was going to do the work to change the name, I tossed out a
> proposal and asked if there were any objections to the name. The only
> email in response was one of you indicating you were copying
> trademarks@ - otherwise nothing negative.
>
>
> >
> >> To that end, I've
> >> made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever action
> >> suits you.
> >>
> >
> > This is a disappointing response. Of course, I will take no such action.
> > Despite the fact that I am not prepared to unilaterally change something
> as
> > important as this Github organisation without all the facts, my aim is to
> > help Apache CloudStack adjust to Apache. If the response to my guidance
> is
> > "oh well, you better fix it then" then I am obviously doing a very poor
> job.
>
> My response is this:
> I tried to remedy something you saw as a problem (the github account
> name). I proposed a solution on list. I waited a week. I saw no
> negative response to the name. I changed it. Two days after I changed
> it you come back saying that is still a problem, but not suggesting
> any alternatives for identifying a collection of repos for things that
> are useful to CloudStack. I don't have any more suggestions to remedy
> this. I do wish to empower you as a member and participant of this
> community, who is doing work in this community, to not be blocked in
> implementing a solution.
>
> >
> >
> >> > There are still several problems with this page:
> >> >
> >> > - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated above.
> The
> >> > Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But Apache has
> no
> >> > oversight for this repository, so it should clearly indicate it's
> >> > provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would,
> >> incidentally,
> >> > be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
> >>
> >> We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump through the
> >> hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with this,
> >> as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to Citrix,
> >> nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code without
> >> a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is focused on
> >> CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been developed by
> >> people working on and around cloudstack. For instance, Edmunds.com,
> >> Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no Citrix
> >> contributions whatsoever.
> >>
> >
> > I don't know what to suggest then. Perhaps "cloudstack-extras" is not
> such
> > a big problem. I will defer to Shane, who has way more experience with
> this
> > than I do.
>
> This is essentially where I am at - I have no idea for a better name
> that doesn't involve the word cloudstack for identifying this.
> The remaining issues still do exist, and they still need to be solved,
> and eventually we will.
>
--
NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 20 October 2012 18:10, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the Apache
>> > CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's input on this,
>> > which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
>>
>> This sat for over a week with nary a comment.
>
>
> I volunteer my time to this project. Any contributions I make are on my own
> time. My employer does not pay me to contribute. CloudStack is
> an extremely high traffic project and I am doing the best I can to
> contribute to it.
Let me say that I appreciate your contributions - much of our
readiness to release is because of your tireless efforts to point out
our problems - please don't take my frustration as frustration with
all of your contributions, or even that I disagree with you.
>
>
>> I don't mean to vent my
>> frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
>> something
>
>
> I did.
Forgive me for disagreeing - but there was nothing remotely negative
about your response.
http://markmail.org/message/qs5wt2ucjjdj4tfp
You said you were looping in someone else - expanding the audience,
not a bad thing - there was no indication that you thought that.
One of the things you indicated was problematic in your earlier mail
was the account name github.com/cloudstack - which was all I was
attempting to solve at this time. The rest still remain issues - but I
will discuss those in a bit in a followup to your earlier email.
>
> I CCed Shane (our VP of Brand Management) because I wanted his input. I
> brought up the concern previously on the mailing list, and nothing much
> seemed to happen. This time, I thought I would loop Shane in to clarify any
> questions. I guess he was busy too.
>
>
>> How long should I have waited?
>
>
> I don't know. But following up was another option. Sometimes emails get
> lost in the noise. After 6 days you posted a note to say you were going to
> go ahead and name the repos. You assumed lazy consensus, but I think my
> previous notes to the list should have been indication enough that we had
> not established consensus.
This particular action (renaming the account) was taken in response to
your referenced email wherein you complained about the name.
Your note was not a -1 (and had it been, per
http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management you should
have pointed out what the problems were with the account name choice
or offered an alternative. Your email in response to my proposal of
cloudstack-extras did neither of those, and no one from trademarks@
responded negatively either. How is one not supposed to assume that
there is lazy consensus to change the name to cloudstack-extras out of
that?) How is the account name cloudstack-extras not a nominative use
of the term CloudStack and pointing out that it is 'extra' the
definition of which means outside or in addition to. With the
exception of the CloudStack repo contained therein, all of the
included code is something outside of our in addition to CloudStack.
Every use of the word CloudStack is not a trademark violation - even
if it is in software.
>
>
>> I could have left this as
>> github.com/cloudstack and not spent the time and energy to make the
>> move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move affects etc.
>>
>
> This isn't really an option, as I have outlined before.
You are missing my point, I want the problem solved. I want folks to
realize that CloudStack is at the ASF and for their to be no brand
confusion. What I don't want to do is waste my time when I propose,
and then try and fix some of the problems you outline. I am willing to
do the work to get this done.
>
>
>> While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
>> exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose things,
>> get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and then
>> days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable.
>
>
> This is an unfair characterisation of my involvement. I have not made any
> "demands" of you. I gave repeated, and detailed feedback on this issue. But
> this seems to have been ignored.
>
Not at all - this was actually an attempt to fix one of the github
issues. It wasn't an attempt to fix them all - it was an attempt to
change the name. In followup to that mail - I sent a mail to the list
saying I was going to do the work to change the name, I tossed out a
proposal and asked if there were any objections to the name. The only
email in response was one of you indicating you were copying
trademarks@ - otherwise nothing negative.
>
>> To that end, I've
>> made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever action
>> suits you.
>>
>
> This is a disappointing response. Of course, I will take no such action.
> Despite the fact that I am not prepared to unilaterally change something as
> important as this Github organisation without all the facts, my aim is to
> help Apache CloudStack adjust to Apache. If the response to my guidance is
> "oh well, you better fix it then" then I am obviously doing a very poor job.
My response is this:
I tried to remedy something you saw as a problem (the github account
name). I proposed a solution on list. I waited a week. I saw no
negative response to the name. I changed it. Two days after I changed
it you come back saying that is still a problem, but not suggesting
any alternatives for identifying a collection of repos for things that
are useful to CloudStack. I don't have any more suggestions to remedy
this. I do wish to empower you as a member and participant of this
community, who is doing work in this community, to not be blocked in
implementing a solution.
>
>
>> > There are still several problems with this page:
>> >
>> > - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated above. The
>> > Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But Apache has no
>> > oversight for this repository, so it should clearly indicate it's
>> > provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would,
>> incidentally,
>> > be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
>>
>> We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump through the
>> hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with this,
>> as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to Citrix,
>> nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code without
>> a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is focused on
>> CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been developed by
>> people working on and around cloudstack. For instance, Edmunds.com,
>> Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no Citrix
>> contributions whatsoever.
>>
>
> I don't know what to suggest then. Perhaps "cloudstack-extras" is not such
> a big problem. I will defer to Shane, who has way more experience with this
> than I do.
This is essentially where I am at - I have no idea for a better name
that doesn't involve the word cloudstack for identifying this.
The remaining issues still do exist, and they still need to be solved,
and eventually we will.
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
On 20 October 2012 18:10, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the Apache
> > CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's input on this,
> > which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
>
> This sat for over a week with nary a comment.
I volunteer my time to this project. Any contributions I make are on my own
time. My employer does not pay me to contribute. CloudStack is
an extremely high traffic project and I am doing the best I can to
contribute to it.
> I don't mean to vent my
> frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
> something
I did.
The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then. Perhaps
> rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by Citrix. At the
> moment, it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously,
> this isn't okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and
> needs to be used appropriately.
-- "Github integration", 29 Sep 2012, http://s.apache.org/J0a
Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
> problematic:
- CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
> - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
> - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
> - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
> - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
> - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
> Now, admittedly, all of these things exist because this account used to be
the home of CloudStack. It is not as if someone has come along after the
fact, and is now using our name irresponsibly. But they still present an
issue, because there is significant scope for confusion here.
> I am assuming there are already plans in place to retire the original
repository as part of the move to Apache. This should, of course, include a
rebranding, and a reworking of this GitHub account. Do you know what the
timeline is for that?
-- "Github integration", 29 Sep 2012, http://s.apache.org/r7
> or at least say don't move forward
I only just read your response.
- instead you cced
> trademarks@, who have also been silent
I CCed Shane (our VP of Brand Management) because I wanted his input. I
brought up the concern previously on the mailing list, and nothing much
seemed to happen. This time, I thought I would loop Shane in to clarify any
questions. I guess he was busy too.
> How long should I have waited?
I don't know. But following up was another option. Sometimes emails get
lost in the noise. After 6 days you posted a note to say you were going to
go ahead and name the repos. You assumed lazy consensus, but I think my
previous notes to the list should have been indication enough that we had
not established consensus.
> I could have left this as
> github.com/cloudstack and not spent the time and energy to make the
> move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move affects etc.
>
This isn't really an option, as I have outlined before.
> While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
> exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose things,
> get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and then
> days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable.
This is an unfair characterisation of my involvement. I have not made any
"demands" of you. I gave repeated, and detailed feedback on this issue. But
this seems to have been ignored.
> To that end, I've
> made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever action
> suits you.
>
This is a disappointing response. Of course, I will take no such action.
Despite the fact that I am not prepared to unilaterally change something as
important as this Github organisation without all the facts, my aim is to
help Apache CloudStack adjust to Apache. If the response to my guidance is
"oh well, you better fix it then" then I am obviously doing a very poor job.
> > There are still several problems with this page:
> >
> > - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated above. The
> > Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But Apache has no
> > oversight for this repository, so it should clearly indicate it's
> > provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would,
> incidentally,
> > be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
>
> We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump through the
> hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with this,
> as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to Citrix,
> nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code without
> a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is focused on
> CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been developed by
> people working on and around cloudstack. For instance, Edmunds.com,
> Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no Citrix
> contributions whatsoever.
>
I don't know what to suggest then. Perhaps "cloudstack-extras" is not such
a big problem. I will defer to Shane, who has way more experience with this
than I do.
--
NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the Apache
> CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's input on this,
> which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
This sat for over a week with nary a comment. I don't mean to vent my
frustration, but if you thought there was a problem why not say
something or at least say don't move forward - instead you cced
trademarks@, who have also been silent, and didn't voice any dissent
yourself. How long should I have waited? I could have left this as
github.com/cloudstack and not spent the time and energy to make the
move, blog about it, notify the many people who this move affects etc.
While I seek to make sure we do what is best for the project, it's
exhausting to try and comply with the demands, only to propose things,
get zero feedback, make the changes, publicize the changes, and then
days later get feedback that it isn't acceptable. To that end, I've
made you an admin on that github project - please take whatever action
suits you.
>
> There are still several problems with this page:
>
> - The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated above. The
> Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But Apache has no
> oversight for this repository, so it should clearly indicate it's
> provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would, incidentally,
> be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
We toyed with the idea of Citrix - and I can probably jump through the
hoops for that as well, but Citrix would also have issues with this,
as virtually none of the software contained therein belongs to Citrix,
nor do they really have control over it. This is largely code without
a single unifying owner. The only commonality is that it is focused on
CloudStack. Most of the items contained therein have been developed by
people working on and around cloudstack. For instance, Edmunds.com,
Opscode, and Enstratus employees wrote knife-cloudstack with no Citrix
contributions whatsoever.
> - The page uses the CloudStack logo/graphic, which may confuses users
> who think this is run by the Apache CloudStack project. The logo/graphic
> should be used responsibly. I would be more comfortable with a Citrix logo
> there. (Presuming this is managed by Citrix.)
> - The https://github.com/CloudStack-extras/CloudStack repository still
> lists itself as "CloudStack OSS Cloud.com/community - IaaS (Infrastructure
> as a Service)" which is confusing and makes it sound like this is the Git
> repository for Apache CloudStack.
> - The page now contains mixed messaging. If you read from the top left
> down, you are told:
> - "CloudStack / Open Source Cloud Computing"
> - "former home of the CloudStack Project (Now Apache CloudStack
> (incubating)" (missing paren)
> - "CloudStack-extras"
> - "CloudStack has moved to the ASF Incubator"
> - "[Our mailing list is] cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org"
> - "[Our homepage is] http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack"
>
>
> On 18 October 2012 14:40, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> Belated +1 for the move. Thanks for doing it.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:22 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> > This has sat for almost a week with no additional comments - I'll
>> > assume lazy consensus and make this change.
>> >
>> > --David
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> David, I have looped in our VP of Brand Management to assist us here.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
>> >>>
>> >>> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
>> >>> that is less confusing.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
>> >>> a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
>> >>> the GPL.
>> >>>
>> >>> Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
>> >>> manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
>> >>> extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
>> >>> there any objection to this account being renamed to
>> >>> cloudstack-extras?
>> >>>
>> >>> Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> --David
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> NS
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Hmm, "cloudstack-extras" seems to me like something that the Apache
CloudStack project is providing. I was hoping for Shane's input on this,
which is why I didn't say anything after looping him in.
There are still several problems with this page:
- The "cloudstack-extras" name seems confusing, as stated above. The
Apache extras is fine, because we are providing it. But Apache has no
oversight for this repository, so it should clearly indicate it's
provenance. (i.e. Citrix tools for CloudStack — which would, incidentally,
be a much better name. Perhaps change it to "Citrix"?)
- The page uses the CloudStack logo/graphic, which may confuses users
who think this is run by the Apache CloudStack project. The logo/graphic
should be used responsibly. I would be more comfortable with a Citrix logo
there. (Presuming this is managed by Citrix.)
- The https://github.com/CloudStack-extras/CloudStack repository still
lists itself as "CloudStack OSS Cloud.com/community - IaaS (Infrastructure
as a Service)" which is confusing and makes it sound like this is the Git
repository for Apache CloudStack.
- The page now contains mixed messaging. If you read from the top left
down, you are told:
- "CloudStack / Open Source Cloud Computing"
- "former home of the CloudStack Project (Now Apache CloudStack
(incubating)" (missing paren)
- "CloudStack-extras"
- "CloudStack has moved to the ASF Incubator"
- "[Our mailing list is] cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org"
- "[Our homepage is] http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack"
On 18 October 2012 14:40, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> David,
>
> Belated +1 for the move. Thanks for doing it.
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:22 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > This has sat for almost a week with no additional comments - I'll
> > assume lazy consensus and make this change.
> >
> > --David
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> >> David, I have looped in our VP of Brand Management to assist us here.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
> >>>
> >>> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
> >>> that is less confusing.
> >>>
> >>> There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
> >>> a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
> >>> the GPL.
> >>>
> >>> Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
> >>> manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
> >>> extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
> >>> there any objection to this account being renamed to
> >>> cloudstack-extras?
> >>>
> >>> Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
> >>>
> >>> --David
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> NS
> >
>
--
NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
David,
Belated +1 for the move. Thanks for doing it.
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:22 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> This has sat for almost a week with no additional comments - I'll
> assume lazy consensus and make this change.
>
> --David
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>> David, I have looped in our VP of Brand Management to assist us here.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
>>>
>>> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
>>> that is less confusing.
>>>
>>> There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
>>> a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
>>> the GPL.
>>>
>>> Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
>>> manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
>>> extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
>>> there any objection to this account being renamed to
>>> cloudstack-extras?
>>>
>>> Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
>>>
>>> --David
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> NS
>
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
This has sat for almost a week with no additional comments - I'll
assume lazy consensus and make this change.
--David
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> David, I have looped in our VP of Brand Management to assist us here.
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
>>
>> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
>> that is less confusing.
>>
>> There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
>> a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
>> the GPL.
>>
>> Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
>> manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
>> extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
>> there any objection to this account being renamed to
>> cloudstack-extras?
>>
>> Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
>>
>> --David
>>
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
David, I have looped in our VP of Brand Management to assist us here.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks, following up on an older thread:
>
> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
> that is less confusing.
>
> There are 18 repos in this account - about 1/2 of them still useful -
> a few of the others need to stay around because of the provisions of
> the GPL.
>
> Many of these repos are still useful to CloudStack - be it puppet
> manifests or knife-cloudstack plugin, etc - so Joe pointed out apache
> extras - (http://apache-extras.org) which seems analogous - so is
> there any objection to this account being renamed to
> cloudstack-extras?
>
> Happy to entertain other suggestions as well.
>
> --David
>
--
NS
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Noa Resare <no...@spotify.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
>> that is less confusing.
>>
>>
> I'm unsure about how this relates to the rest of the discussion, but to me
> github has proven to be a useful mechanism for making change sets available
> to the development community as well as project maintainers in a convenient
> way. If there is an updated clone of the ASF git repo at github it can be
> easily forked by anyone and useful bits from those forks can then be fed
> back into the main project. To the best of my knowledge, ASF doesn't
> provide a similar service.
>
There is an active mirror here:
http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
--David
Re: github.com/CloudStack
Posted by Noa Resare <no...@spotify.com>.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> github.com/CloudStack needs to change its account name to something
> that is less confusing.
>
>
I'm unsure about how this relates to the rest of the discussion, but to me
github has proven to be a useful mechanism for making change sets available
to the development community as well as project maintainers in a convenient
way. If there is an updated clone of the ASF git repo at github it can be
easily forked by anyone and useful bits from those forks can then be fed
back into the main project. To the best of my knowledge, ASF doesn't
provide a similar service.
/noa
--
Developer, Engineering Experience, Spotify