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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Jörn Nettingsmeier <ne...@apache.org> on 2008/06/03 21:14:41 UTC
Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
hi mike!
thanks for considering lenya. i'm copying the user list. for the benefit
of others, can i ask that future discussion takes place on the list?
Mike Weiss wrote:
> Jörn,
>
> I just read through your quick HowTo for adding an editor to Lenya. I am
> still in the process of learning about both Lenya and Cocoon and have
> found the available editors to be inappropriate for my needs. I would
> particularly like to edit arbitrary XML in a visual but structured way.
oh yes. many of us would like to do that :-D
it's definitely non-trivial.
> I have found the editor I need but I am not sure how to integrate it
> into Lenya. Can you help me? The editor is an abandoned project on
> Sourceforge...it's called xmlwebgui (http://xmlwebgui.sourceforge.net/).
> It's Javascript but it interacts with a servlet.
funny. iiuc the author is a cocoon committer, so it might not be too far
away from lenya's way of doing things.
another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working on, but
i don't know when it will be available for general use - thomas, if you
read this: care to chime in?
> If you have some time can you take a look at it and maybe give me some
> ideas as to how I can integrate this editor?
i don't have time to download it atm, but the basic idea is simple (as
outlined in http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/GenericEditorAPI)...
did you succeed in getting a static page to include a functional editor
(without saving to the server)? then all you need to do is move it into
a pipeline and intercept the "save" event (which should be configurable
in any cross-platform editor). steal the code from the editors or
tinymce or fckeditor module. i'll be happy to help if you have more
detailed questions.
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code."
- Ken Thompson.
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Hi Wolfgang,
>
>Hmm, I thought, I’ve read that BXE already has this feature.
>
>> […]
>
>Best wishes,
>Wolfgang
yes but the editors are very different.
Just join the meeting in Freiburg and see:
http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/MeetingFreiburg2008
Best wishes,
Rudolf
>
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Wolfgang Jeltsch <zs...@acme.softbase.org>.
Am Dienstag, 3. Juni 2008 21:14 schrieb Jörn Nettingsmeier:
> […]
> Mike Weiss wrote:
> > Jörn,
> >
> > I just read through your quick HowTo for adding an editor to Lenya. I am
> > still in the process of learning about both Lenya and Cocoon and have
> > found the available editors to be inappropriate for my needs. I would
> > particularly like to edit arbitrary XML in a visual but structured way.
>
> oh yes. many of us would like to do that :-D
> it's definitely non-trivial.
Hmm, I thought, I’ve read that BXE already has this feature.
> […]
Best wishes,
Wolfgang
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>
>> Thomas Comiotto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mike
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-
>>>> dev, kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a
>>>> quite generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing
>>>> Protocol, including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I plan to release the editor stuff in July
>>
>>
>>
>> If I might ask what is the reason not to open your code repository to
>> the public right now?
>>
>> Honestly speaking I am rather tired of people talking about Open
>> Source and not doing it, whereas I am perfectly fine if people don't
>> want to
>> release there stuff as FOSS, but then don't *keep* use mailing lists
>> related to Open Source for stuff which isn't or not yet!
>
>
> We have to be careful not to confuse an open source development model
> with releasing code as open source software. Regarding the Lenya
> project, the first aspect is very important. But regarding Thomas'
> project, I don't think someone else is in the position to question his
> development method.
I am asking a simple question: Why not open the code repository right
now such that developers can download it and play with it?
Is this causing any harm?
>
>
> Personally, I don't think it should be tabooed to talk about
> not-yet-released or closed source software, which is or could be
> related to Lenya, on this list.
I guess you have noticed that I have emphasized the word *keep*.
Cheers
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Thomas Comiotto wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike
>>
>>>
>>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-
>>> dev, kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a
>>> quite generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing
>>> Protocol, including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>>>
>>
>> I plan to release the editor stuff in July
>
>
> If I might ask what is the reason not to open your code repository to
> the public right now?
>
> Honestly speaking I am rather tired of people talking about Open Source
> and not doing it, whereas I am perfectly fine if people don't want to
> release there stuff as FOSS, but then don't *keep* use mailing lists
> related to Open Source for stuff which isn't or not yet!
We have to be careful not to confuse an open source development model
with releasing code as open source software. Regarding the Lenya
project, the first aspect is very important. But regarding Thomas'
project, I don't think someone else is in the position to question his
development method.
Personally, I don't think it should be tabooed to talk about
not-yet-released or closed source software, which is or could be related
to Lenya, on this list.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Thomas Comiotto <th...@id.uzh.ch>.
Hi Michi
>
> Honestly speaking I am rather tired of people talking about Open
> Source and not doing it, whereas I am perfectly fine if people
> don't want to release there stuff as FOSS, but then don't *keep*
> use mailing lists related to Open Source for stuff which isn't or
> not yet!
It's not yet FOSS will be in July.
Point taken.
Cheers
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Thomas Comiotto
thomas.comiotto@id.uzh.ch
Universitaet Zuerich
Informatikdienste Tel: +41 44
63 54541
Winterthurerstrasse 190 +41 44
63 43333
CH-8057 Zuerich Fax: +41 44
63 54505
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thomas Comiotto wrote:
> Hi Mike
>
>>
>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-
>> dev, kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a
>> quite generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing
>> Protocol, including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>>
>
> I plan to release the editor stuff in July
If I might ask what is the reason not to open your code repository to
the public right now?
Honestly speaking I am rather tired of people talking about Open Source
and not doing it, whereas I am perfectly fine if people don't want to
release there stuff as FOSS, but then don't *keep* use mailing lists
related to Open Source for stuff which isn't or not yet!
Cheers
Michael
> - after my summer hollidays. It's a Firefox extension that features
>
> * xslt based wysiwyg editing of arbitrary xml content types
> * relax ng validation (jing)
> * schema driven editing (jing)
> * template driven editing
> * lenya integration
> * schema driven diagnostics and document repair
> * more...
>
> The app will ship with built-in support for xhtml, html and odf. It
> has an scriptable add-ons system for custom doctypes.
>
>
> Stay tuned.
> Thomas
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Thomas Comiotto
> thomas.comiotto@id.uzh.ch
>
> Universitaet Zuerich
> Informatikdienste Tel: +41 44
> 63 54541
> Winterthurerstrasse 190 +41 44
> 63 43333
> CH-8057 Zuerich Fax: +41 44
> 63 54505
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@lenya.apache.org
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Thomas Comiotto <th...@id.uzh.ch>.
Hi Mike
>
> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-
> dev, kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a
> quite generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing
> Protocol, including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>
I plan to release the editor stuff in July - after my summer
hollidays. It's a Firefox extension that features
* xslt based wysiwyg editing of arbitrary xml content types
* relax ng validation (jing)
* schema driven editing (jing)
* template driven editing
* lenya integration
* schema driven diagnostics and document repair
* more...
The app will ship with built-in support for xhtml, html and odf. It
has an scriptable add-ons system for custom doctypes.
Stay tuned.
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Thomas Comiotto
thomas.comiotto@id.uzh.ch
Universitaet Zuerich
Informatikdienste Tel: +41 44
63 54541
Winterthurerstrasse 190 +41 44
63 43333
CH-8057 Zuerich Fax: +41 44
63 54505
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Jürgen Ragaller <ra...@apache.org>.
Hi
Am Jun 3, 2008 um 21:48 schrieb Jörn Nettingsmeier:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Hi Jörn,
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>> another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working
>>> on, but i don't know when it will be available for general use -
>>> thomas, if you read this: care to chime in?
>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-
>> dev, kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a
>> quite generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing
>> Protocol, including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>> I'll give an introduction at the meeting in Freiburg.
This is great!
I'm looking forward to meeting all of you in Freiburg and to learn
more about such promising developments - the EM will be boring in
comparison ;-)
Jürgen
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Hi Jörn,
>>
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>
>>> another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working on,
>>> but i don't know when it will be available for general use - thomas,
>>> if you read this: care to chime in?
>>
>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
>> kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a quite
>> generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing Protocol,
>> including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>>
>> I'll give an introduction at the meeting in Freiburg.
>
> where do i buy andreas hartmann fan t-shirts?
:)
My task is the easiest of all, the credits belong to the Uniklinikum and
to Thomas. Although I had to patch WebTest and HtmlUnit to get PUT and
POST working (which took me almost two days), so it was not totally
straightforward :)
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <ne...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hi Jörn,
>
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>
>> another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working on,
>> but i don't know when it will be available for general use - thomas,
>> if you read this: care to chime in?
>
> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
> kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a quite
> generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing Protocol,
> including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>
> I'll give an introduction at the meeting in Freiburg.
where do i buy andreas hartmann fan t-shirts?
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code."
- Ken Thompson.
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>>
>> […]
>>
>>>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
>>>
>>> have you started with this already?
>>
>> Yes, but the code is still in an early stage of development.
>
> IIUC your developements have not been committed to the ASF SVN repo, but
> kept privately by you, right?
Yes, this is correct.
>>> Is the protocol pure Atom or does it have custom extensions?
>>
>> It has editor-specific extensions.
>
> are these public?
If either the editor or the server-side integration code will be
released as open source, the complete communication protocol will
available. If the Lenya module will be released as open source, I'll be
happy to document the protocol.
>>> For the sake of Open Source I would suggest that you publish the
>>> protocol if it has custom extensions and discuss this with the
>>> community first.
>>
>> The ownership of the code belongs to the Uniklinikum Freiburg. IIUC
>> they will probably donate the server-side code to the Lenya project,
>> which IMO is a very kind move.
>
> it's always nice if somebody wants to contribute code, but IIUC it's not
> clear yet, right?
I'll discuss this with the involved parties.
>>> Don't get me wrong, I think it's great if new alternatives are being
>>> integrated, but DO it transparently (which I don't see at the moment)
>>> and otherwise do it as a private custom module.
>>
>>
>> We're not trying to establish a standard protocol, but integrate a
>> particular editor. The decision to keep it similar to Atom has
>> practical reasons.
>>
>> This is not a community project, but a client project. Discussing the
>> details in public wouldn't allow us to meet our deadlines
>
> I think that's a very bad excuse. Discussing/listening is NOT the same
> as deciding! So, you can only profit from the community and don't have
> to worry.
Well, in my experience, discussing something like a protocol in public
takes quite a lot of time (at least if people participate in the
discussion).
[…]
>> If you're concerned that the code won't be maintained if it is not a
>> community effort: I think that this probability is virtually
>> neglegible since the editor will be used with Lenya 2.0 by the
>> Uniklinikum and (if the code will be donated) by the BeCompany. Apart
>> from my personal commitment to the Lenya project,
>
> it happened many times that active developers/companies stopped
> contributing, which isn't bad, but it's a fact.
>
> The only way to guarantee support is to make stuff transparent such that
> others are able to continue.
If the sources will be available, the code will be transparent.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>
> […]
>
>>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
>>
>>
>> have you started with this already?
>
>
> Yes, but the code is still in an early stage of development.
IIUC your developements have not been committed to the ASF SVN repo, but
kept privately by you, right?
>
>> Is the protocol pure Atom or does it have custom extensions?
>
>
> It has editor-specific extensions.
are these public?
>
>> For the sake of Open Source I would suggest that you publish the
>> protocol if it has custom extensions and discuss this with the
>> community first.
>
>
> The ownership of the code belongs to the Uniklinikum Freiburg. IIUC
> they will probably donate the server-side code to the Lenya project,
> which IMO is a very kind move.
it's always nice if somebody wants to contribute code, but IIUC it's not
clear yet, right?
>
>> Don't get me wrong, I think it's great if new alternatives are being
>> integrated, but DO it transparently (which I don't see at the moment)
>> and otherwise do it as a private custom module.
>
>
> We're not trying to establish a standard protocol, but integrate a
> particular editor. The decision to keep it similar to Atom has
> practical reasons.
>
> This is not a community project, but a client project. Discussing the
> details in public wouldn't allow us to meet our deadlines
I think that's a very bad excuse. Discussing/listening is NOT the same
as deciding! So, you can only profit from the community and don't have
to worry.
> (which in this case are not set by the client but by other
> circumstances) and to keep our efforts within a reasonable budget.
>
> Apart from that: Am I understanding correctly that you're suggesting
> that the code shouldn't even be offered for donation if it hasn't been
> designed as a community effort?
No, this is not what I said or even suggested.
From your statement "Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor
in Lenya 2.0.2-dev" I was assuming that you will commit your code into
the ASF SVN repo without discussing or publishing transparently the
interfaces. IIUC now you don't commit, so fine with me and enough said.
> Do the other developers agree to this?
>
> If you're concerned that the code won't be maintained if it is not a
> community effort: I think that this probability is virtually
> neglegible since the editor will be used with Lenya 2.0 by the
> Uniklinikum and (if the code will be donated) by the BeCompany. Apart
> from my personal commitment to the Lenya project,
it happened many times that active developers/companies stopped
contributing, which isn't bad, but it's a fact.
The only way to guarantee support is to make stuff transparent such that
others are able to continue.
Cheers
Michael
> commercial support for both the editor and the CMS code will be
> available.
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
[…]
>> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
>
> have you started with this already?
Yes, but the code is still in an early stage of development.
> Is the protocol pure Atom or does it have custom extensions?
It has editor-specific extensions.
> For the sake of Open Source I would suggest that you publish the
> protocol if it has custom extensions and discuss this with the community
> first.
The ownership of the code belongs to the Uniklinikum Freiburg. IIUC they
will probably donate the server-side code to the Lenya project, which
IMO is a very kind move.
> Don't get me wrong, I think it's great if new alternatives are being
> integrated, but DO it transparently (which I don't see at the moment)
> and otherwise do it as a private custom module.
We're not trying to establish a standard protocol, but integrate a
particular editor. The decision to keep it similar to Atom has practical
reasons.
This is not a community project, but a client project. Discussing the
details in public wouldn't allow us to meet our deadlines (which in this
case are not set by the client but by other circumstances) and to keep
our efforts within a reasonable budget.
Apart from that: Am I understanding correctly that you're suggesting
that the code shouldn't even be offered for donation if it hasn't been
designed as a community effort? Do the other developers agree to this?
If you're concerned that the code won't be maintained if it is not a
community effort: I think that this probability is virtually neglegible
since the editor will be used with Lenya 2.0 by the Uniklinikum and (if
the code will be donated) by the BeCompany. Apart from my personal
commitment to the Lenya project, commercial support for both the editor
and the CMS code will be available.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hi Jörn,
>
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>
>> another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working on,
>> but i don't know when it will be available for general use - thomas,
>> if you read this: care to chime in?
>
>
> Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
have you started with this already? Is the protocol pure Atom or does it
have custom extensions?
For the sake of Open Source I would suggest that you publish the
protocol if it has custom extensions and discuss this with the community
first.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great if new alternatives are being
integrated, but DO it transparently (which I don't see at the moment)
and otherwise do it as a private custom module.
Cheers
Michael
> kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a quite
> generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing Protocol,
> including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
>
> I'll give an introduction at the meeting in Freiburg.
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: Help integrating a new editor in Lenya?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Hi Jörn,
Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
> another alternative is an editor that thomas comiotto is working on, but
> i don't know when it will be available for general use - thomas, if you
> read this: care to chime in?
Thomas and I are currently integrating the editor in Lenya 2.0.2-dev,
kindly sponsored by the Uniklinikum Freiburg. We're using a quite
generic REST-like interface based on the Atom Publishing Protocol,
including WebTest coverage and documentation :)
I'll give an introduction at the meeting in Freiburg.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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