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Posted to user@vcl.apache.org by Junaid Ali <al...@iit.edu> on 2013/10/11 17:41:36 UTC
VMware Image Size
Hello,
We are currently using one software per Windows 7 image within VCL (VMware
hosts). As we move forward with adding additional software into the VCL
environment we are planning to deploy multiple software within one image.
This will increase the size of our image from 30 GB (currently) to 100 GB.
I was wondering what the average VMware image sizes are used by the
community and if anyone faced any issue with larger VMware image sizes.
Thanks.
Junaid Ali
RE: VMware Image Size
Posted by "Fay, Cornelius R." <fa...@hood.edu>.
We use a base Win7 image of Office 2010 that is about 10GB in size and loads in 15 seconds. To this base we add discipline-specific application(s) that generally brings them up to 13-14GB (programs such as MATLAB and ARCGIS) which take a few seconds longer to load.
This allows the students to manipulate and format their data output into a presentation vehicle such as Word, PowerPoint or Excel for sharing or turn-in.
We also take pains to match the image hardware requirements to the VMs and pre-load them wherever possible. With only 12 images total, we have a high image availability rate and storage is not an issue.
Neil Fay
Hood College
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Thompson [mailto:josh_thompson@ncsu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:55 AM
To: user@vcl.apache.org
Subject: Re: VMware Image Size
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Henry and Dmitri have shared some good points. One to two applications per image has been the typical thinking for VCL images. That said, there are some arguments to be made for putting several applications into a single image. It reduces the number of images you need to maintain. It also reduces the amount of storage needed for your image repository. Given the way virtual images are loaded, the load times are not generally affected by the size of the image.
However, if you have multiple datastores, the time it takes to transfer the images from one datastore to another is affected. With VCL's preloading of images, having fewer images increases the chance of an image being preloaded when a user requests it.
So, there is a balance to be found when determining how many images you want to have in a single image.
Josh
On Friday, October 11, 2013 5:55:13 PM Dmitri Chebotarov wrote:
> Hi Junaid
>
> Our Win 7 images are 60GB - enough space for OS and one-two application(s).
>
> We also follow the model of one-two application(s) per image and have
> multiple images hosting different applications. This model is easier
> to support (in terms os Win7 troubleshooting).
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> Dmitri Chebotarov
> VCL Sys Eng, Engineering & Architectural Support, TSD - Ent Servers &
> Messaging 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
> Phone: (703) 993-6175 | Fax: (703) 993-3404
>
>
> From: Henry Schaffer <he...@ncsu.edu>>
> Reply-To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>"
> <us...@vcl.apache.org>> Date: Friday,
> October 11,
> 2013 13:42
> To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>"
> <us...@vcl.apache.org>> Subject: Re: VMware
> Image Size
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Junaid Ali
> <al...@iit.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We are currently using one software per Windows 7 image within VCL
> (VMware hosts).
>
> I assume that by "software" you mean an application (such as Maple,
> or
> Matlab)
>
>
> As we move forward with adding additional software into the VCL
> environment we are planning to deploy multiple software within one image.
>
> Why would you do this? Our experience is that the user (assuming
> what we call "desktop augmentation") wants *one* application to be made available.
> E.g. the user who wants Maple probably wants only Maple and not also
> ArcGIS or Cadence. Sometimes a small "cluster" of applications might
> be needed - e.g. a spreadsheet along with ArcGIS - but even that is
> typically only two applications.
>
> What this does is produce an array of smaller images, which will
> individually load faster, rather than on huge image containing many
> applications.
>
> Note that one of the reasons for the original development was that
> there are, too often, conflicts between different applications (e.g.
> "DLL wars") which are installed together. Even if they are invoked one
> at a time, there can be many problems which then take a *lot* of
> support time to solve - when they can be solved.
>
> We now have over a hundred applications on our VCL, and it would
> create a
> *huge* mess if we tried to install them all in one image - and there
> is no need to do so.
>
>
> This will increase the size of our image from 30 GB (currently) to 100 GB.
>
> I was wondering what the average VMware image sizes are used by the
> community and if anyone faced any issue with larger VMware image sizes.
>
> The larger they are, the slower they load, and the bigger load they
> place on the system. Somebody else should comment on actual sizes and
> to what extent compression can help cope with image size.
>
> --henry
>
>
>
> Thanks.
> Junaid Ali
- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University
my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
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=h/eP
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Re: VMware Image Size
Posted by Josh Thompson <jo...@ncsu.edu>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Henry and Dmitri have shared some good points. One to two applications per
image has been the typical thinking for VCL images. That said, there are some
arguments to be made for putting several applications into a single image. It
reduces the number of images you need to maintain. It also reduces the amount
of storage needed for your image repository. Given the way virtual images are
loaded, the load times are not generally affected by the size of the image.
However, if you have multiple datastores, the time it takes to transfer the
images from one datastore to another is affected. With VCL's preloading of
images, having fewer images increases the chance of an image being preloaded
when a user requests it.
So, there is a balance to be found when determining how many images you want
to have in a single image.
Josh
On Friday, October 11, 2013 5:55:13 PM Dmitri Chebotarov wrote:
> Hi Junaid
>
> Our Win 7 images are 60GB - enough space for OS and one-two application(s).
>
> We also follow the model of one-two application(s) per image and have
> multiple images hosting different applications. This model is easier to
> support (in terms os Win7 troubleshooting).
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> Dmitri Chebotarov
> VCL Sys Eng, Engineering & Architectural Support, TSD - Ent Servers &
> Messaging 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
> Phone: (703) 993-6175 | Fax: (703) 993-3404
>
>
> From: Henry Schaffer <he...@ncsu.edu>>
> Reply-To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>"
> <us...@vcl.apache.org>> Date: Friday, October 11,
> 2013 13:42
> To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>"
> <us...@vcl.apache.org>> Subject: Re: VMware Image
> Size
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Junaid Ali
> <al...@iit.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We are currently using one software per Windows 7 image within VCL (VMware
> hosts).
>
> I assume that by "software" you mean an application (such as Maple, or
> Matlab)
>
>
> As we move forward with adding additional software into the VCL environment
> we are planning to deploy multiple software within one image.
>
> Why would you do this? Our experience is that the user (assuming what we
> call "desktop augmentation") wants *one* application to be made available.
> E.g. the user who wants Maple probably wants only Maple and not also ArcGIS
> or Cadence. Sometimes a small "cluster" of applications might be needed -
> e.g. a spreadsheet along with ArcGIS - but even that is typically only two
> applications.
>
> What this does is produce an array of smaller images, which will
> individually load faster, rather than on huge image containing many
> applications.
>
> Note that one of the reasons for the original development was that there
> are, too often, conflicts between different applications (e.g. "DLL wars")
> which are installed together. Even if they are invoked one at a time, there
> can be many problems which then take a *lot* of support time to solve -
> when they can be solved.
>
> We now have over a hundred applications on our VCL, and it would create a
> *huge* mess if we tried to install them all in one image - and there is no
> need to do so.
>
>
> This will increase the size of our image from 30 GB (currently) to 100 GB.
>
> I was wondering what the average VMware image sizes are used by the
> community and if anyone faced any issue with larger VMware image sizes.
>
> The larger they are, the slower they load, and the bigger load they place
> on the system. Somebody else should comment on actual sizes and to what
> extent compression can help cope with image size.
>
> --henry
>
>
>
> Thanks.
> Junaid Ali
- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University
my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlJdSS8ACgkQV/LQcNdtPQP6UwCdHjc3nOQGSji9rE30MgmFL3Na
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=h/eP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Re: VMware Image Size
Posted by Dmitri Chebotarov <dc...@gmu.edu>.
Hi Junaid
Our Win 7 images are 60GB - enough space for OS and one-two application(s).
We also follow the model of one-two application(s) per image and have multiple images hosting different applications.
This model is easier to support (in terms os Win7 troubleshooting).
--
Thank you,
Dmitri Chebotarov
VCL Sys Eng, Engineering & Architectural Support, TSD - Ent Servers & Messaging
223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
Phone: (703) 993-6175 | Fax: (703) 993-3404
From: Henry Schaffer <he...@ncsu.edu>>
Reply-To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>" <us...@vcl.apache.org>>
Date: Friday, October 11, 2013 13:42
To: "user@vcl.apache.org<ma...@vcl.apache.org>" <us...@vcl.apache.org>>
Subject: Re: VMware Image Size
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Junaid Ali <al...@iit.edu>> wrote:
Hello,
We are currently using one software per Windows 7 image within VCL (VMware hosts).
I assume that by "software" you mean an application (such as Maple, or Matlab)
As we move forward with adding additional software into the VCL environment we are planning to deploy multiple software within one image.
Why would you do this? Our experience is that the user (assuming what we call "desktop augmentation") wants *one* application to be made available. E.g. the user who wants Maple probably wants only Maple and not also ArcGIS or Cadence. Sometimes a small "cluster" of applications might be needed - e.g. a spreadsheet along with ArcGIS - but even that is typically only two applications.
What this does is produce an array of smaller images, which will individually load faster, rather than on huge image containing many applications.
Note that one of the reasons for the original development was that there are, too often, conflicts between different applications (e.g. "DLL wars") which are installed together. Even if they are invoked one at a time, there can be many problems which then take a *lot* of support time to solve - when they can be solved.
We now have over a hundred applications on our VCL, and it would create a *huge* mess if we tried to install them all in one image - and there is no need to do so.
This will increase the size of our image from 30 GB (currently) to 100 GB.
I was wondering what the average VMware image sizes are used by the community and if anyone faced any issue with larger VMware image sizes.
The larger they are, the slower they load, and the bigger load they place on the system. Somebody else should comment on actual sizes and to what extent compression can help cope with image size.
--henry
Thanks.
Junaid Ali
Re: VMware Image Size
Posted by Henry Schaffer <he...@ncsu.edu>.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Junaid Ali <al...@iit.edu> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are currently using one software per Windows 7 image within VCL (VMware
> hosts).
>
I assume that by "software" you mean an application (such as Maple, or
Matlab)
> As we move forward with adding additional software into the VCL
> environment we are planning to deploy multiple software within one image.
>
Why would you do this? Our experience is that the user (assuming what we
call "desktop augmentation") wants *one* application to be made available.
E.g. the user who wants Maple probably wants only Maple and not also ArcGIS
or Cadence. Sometimes a small "cluster" of applications might be needed -
e.g. a spreadsheet along with ArcGIS - but even that is typically only two
applications.
What this does is produce an array of smaller images, which will
individually load faster, rather than on huge image containing many
applications.
Note that one of the reasons for the original development was that there
are, too often, conflicts between different applications (e.g. "DLL wars")
which are installed together. Even if they are invoked one at a time, there
can be many problems which then take a *lot* of support time to solve -
when they can be solved.
We now have over a hundred applications on our VCL, and it would create a
*huge* mess if we tried to install them all in one image - and there is no
need to do so.
> This will increase the size of our image from 30 GB (currently) to 100 GB.
>
> I was wondering what the average VMware image sizes are used by the
> community and if anyone faced any issue with larger VMware image sizes.
>
The larger they are, the slower they load, and the bigger load they place
on the system. Somebody else should comment on actual sizes and to what
extent compression can help cope with image size.
--henry
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Junaid Ali
>
>
>